Understading vaccine efficacy

TU_BLA

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You really need to stop posting articles from right wing conspiracy nut job sites like this presenting them as some sort of fact to counter what you don't want to hear. All of the scientific and medical evidence is clearly showing that the vaccines, at least Pfizer and Moderna, are highly effective in both preventing infection and also in the small percentage of vaccinated individuals who do get infected, limiting it to a minor illness not requiring hospitalization. And as we get further along from the vaccine rollout, the data supports this more and more. Additionally, data from the original study measuring vaccine duration (amount of Ab in the system after, 3,6, 9 months and so forth) are pointing to vaccinated individuals NOT needing an annual booster. This anti-vaxx ignorance is just going to end up with another shut down or half the people from MO, OK, AR, and other rube states who decided not to get vaccinated because they'd rather believe it's some QAnon government tracking conspiracy, dying.
 
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shon46

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You really need to stop posting articles from right wing conspiracy nut job sites like this presenting them as some sort of fact to counter what you don't want to hear. All of the scientific and medical evidence is clearly showing that the vaccines, at least Pfizer and Moderna, are highly effective in both preventing infection and also in the small percentage of vaccinated individuals who do get infected, limiting it to a minor illness not requiring hospitalization. And as we get further along from the vaccine rollout, the data supports this more and more. Additionally, data from the original study measuring vaccine duration (amount of Ab in the system after, 3,6, 9 months and so forth) are pointing to vaccinated individuals NOT needing an annual booster. This anti-vaxx ignorance is just going to end up with another shut down or half the people from MO, OK, AR, and other rube states who decided not to get vaccinated because they'd rather believe it's some QAnon government tracking conspiracy, dying.
😂 Everything not from CNN or MSDNC is Right wing conspiracy right😉 The VAERS numbers along with the the other European study numbers I have posted have been Peer reviewed. It is truly disturbing that you still choose to hold on to the MSM narrative even after it has been proven over and over that the MSM lied about the Projected number of deaths, lied about the infection numbers, lied about the accuracy of the Covid Test, and lied about the origins or Covid. Please stop repeating their lies! https://www.projectveritas.com/vide...harlie-chester-reveals-how-network-practices/
 
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URedskin54

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Hard to pick a side between the guy who thinks we have killer lizard people vaccines and the guys who think places like Oklahoma are “rube states where half the people will die.” Pretending that the vaccines are dangerous is stupid and anti-science, that’s true enough. But acting like states like Oklahoma, where so far ~40% of people have natural immunity and 45% of people have gotten the vaccine will have significantly different outcomes from states that so far have ~40% natural immunity and 60% of people have gotten the vaccine is pretty anti-science too.

67% of the UK has had at least one vaccine dose and they’re having a pretty rapid increase in cases. Keep that in mind when you decide to attribute case increases that will inevitably occur in some regions this summer to things other than seasonality.
 
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TU_BLA

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where so far ~40% of people have natural immunity
There is limited evidence that having had the disease (and survived) offers long-term (or even short-term immunity). The number of reports of individuals who have contracted it twice is much greater than say other communicable diseases, i.e. chicken-pox. And I do believe the studies are limited so we'll have to wait for the data to come in on why this happened. Is it the rapid progression of the virus that doesn't allow the body's immune system to develop a strong enough response...but remember...your immune system also has a "memory" which is why individuals think that having the disease will offer long term immunity. I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but there's not enough data to indicate if you're right either.

And sorry if you're offended by the rube comment. We live in a state currently run by dip:crap:s with a governor who couldn't find his way out of a 5' x 5' room with one door that had big red letters saying EXIT on it. They pander to the least common denominator because they are the ones most easily duped by all the "family values' rhetoric that they preach but don't follow.
 

watu05

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This anti-vaxx ignorance is just going to end up with another shut down or half the people from MO, OK, AR, and other rube states who decided not to get vaccinated because they'd rather believe it's some QAnon government tracking conspiracy, dying.
Reportedly the surge in delta variant cases has increased the vaccination rate in Arkansas. The bad news seems to work better than a lottery?

The other anti-vaxxer issue is the damage they pose to everyone else by serving as a breeding ground for new variants. We won't really get Covid under control until most of the world is vaccinated or has been infected. The longer that takes, the higher the chance that another variant will pop up that extends the process and kills more people.
 
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TU_BLA

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The longer that takes, the more chance that a variant will pop up that extends the process and kills more people.
See "The Flu". We're lucky that right now the mutation/variation rate for COVID seems pretty slow comparatively to the flu viruses.
 
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URedskin54

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There is limited evidence that having had the disease (and survived) offers long-term (or even short-term immunity).

The evidence is pretty solid. There is some limited evidence that getting the vaccine could perhaps provide more protection than having contracted the virus, but yes, naturally acquired immunity to sars-cov-2 is a real thing that is well established.

As someone who doesn't like being sick in general and has no desire to pass an illness to my vulnerable relatives, of course I got the vaccine as soon as I could, but if I had already caught it I'd probably be 60/40 - 70/30 about getting the vaccine.
 
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shon46

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Reportedly the surge in delta variant cases has increased the vaccination rate in Arkansas. The bad news seems to work better than a lottery?

The other anti-vaxxer issue is the damage they pose to everyone else by serving as a breeding ground for new variants. We won't really get Covid under control until most of the world is vaccinated or has been infected. The longer that takes, the higher the chance that another variant will pop up that extends the process and kills more people.
It’s called information warfare operations. You scare the people into submission
 

Gmoney4WW

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But what do you care, live and let die is your motto. It's so funny that dumba... like you make those kinds of statements and then obsess over posting one conspiracy theory after another. If you really felt that way, you wouldn't care bout the million & one cospir theors.

Mutations happen with or without vaccine.
 

watu05

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Two neighboring countries offer an interesting contrast. Australia and Indonesia. Aussies have almost no vaccine available but have been able to hold down infections to much lower numbers than the US through masks, social distancing, and similar public health efforts. Indonesia next door has no vaccines either but has not been able to implement that same policies as the Aussies. The Indonesian health system (especially on the island of Java) is now being overwhelmed by the spread of Covid and is on the way to becoming the next India especially with the arrival of the Delta variant. Indonesia is the world's 5th largest country, so it will likely become a breeding ground for new variants.
 
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astonmartin708

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The evidence is pretty solid. There is some limited evidence that getting the vaccine could perhaps provide more protection than having contracted the virus, but yes, naturally acquired immunity to sars-cov-2 is a real thing that is well established.

As someone who doesn't like being sick in general and has no desire to pass an illness to my vulnerable relatives, of course I got the vaccine as soon as I could, but if I had already caught it I'd probably be 60/40 - 70/30 about getting the vaccine.
“Immunity”
 

TUMe

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One thing on this subject that I will give the US credit for is that it is trying to walk the tight-rope of being able to provide vaccines to our own people, while at the same time providing vaccines to poor countries. I know promises have been made and I am not sure where we are on that, but if we could get more people vaccinated we would reach a point where we could take care of the needs of both groups.
 
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URedskin54

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Berenson is a dumb grifter hack, and CPAC is continuing its slide into an embarrassing shell of it's former self by having him there. I've followed him on twitter for most of the pandemic just to kind of keep an eye on the latest covid conspiracy theories, and it's amazing how much stuff I'd see from him that Shon would end up posting here 2 weeks later. He is the source of a lot of really dumb stuff and self-destructive behavior on the right.

Fauci sticks out here too though. He has assumed enormous political power over the last year and a half but continues to assume exactly zero responsibility for poor results. "I just don't understand why people trust this Berenson idiot over me" says the man who has talked openly on TV about lying to the American public and admitted he'd do it again. "This isn't a political issue" says the man who helped force millions of people out of work in the name of The Science, but couldn't be bothered to criticize tens of thousands of people huddled together in streets yelling and spewing spit on each other because he was sympathetic to their politics.
 

watu05

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Berenson is a dumb grifter hack, and CPAC is continuing its slide into an embarrassing shell of it's former self by having him there. I've followed him on twitter for most of the pandemic just to kind of keep an eye on the latest covid conspiracy theories, and it's amazing how much stuff I'd see from him that Shon would end up posting here 2 weeks later. He is the source of a lot of really dumb stuff and self-destructive behavior on the right.

Fauci sticks out here too though. He has assumed enormous political power over the last year and a half but continues to assume exactly zero responsibility for poor results. "I just don't understand why people trust this Berenson idiot over me" says the man who has talked openly on TV about lying to the American public and admitted he'd do it again. "This isn't a political issue" says the man who helped force millions of people out of work in the name of The Science, but couldn't be bothered to criticize tens of thousands of people huddled together in streets yelling and spewing spit on each other because he was sympathetic to their politics.
Have to disagree. Fauci does not have executive power. The CDC has more tools and power but it’s head reports to the President who controls its messaging and actions. The epidemiology community has long lamented the CDC’s politicization and emasculation which has been going on for decades since Reagan made the CDC head a political appointee so he could control AIDS messaging. Fauci’s advice has been infinitely more accurate and more consistent than anything coming out of the Trump White House.
 
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URedskin54

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Have to disagree. Fauci does not have executive power. The CDC has more tools and power but it’s head reports to the President who controls its messaging and actions. The epidemiology community has long lamented the CDC’s politicization and emasculation which has been going on for decades since Reagan made the CDC head a political appointee so he could control AIDS messaging. Fauci’s advice has been infinitely more accurate and more consistent than anything coming out of the White House.

You can deflect towards Trump if you want to. I’ve criticized him plenty. But this article was about a dangerous idiot named Alex Berenson and quoted Fauci multiple times directly. It’s not about Trump. A bureaucrat like Fauci having excessive influence and being unaccountable for sucking at it has long been a conservative complaint so this is not a surprise to me. I guess I’m just still a bit surprised at his total lack of self awareness. Even if I overlook all the other stuff, a guy in his position not understanding that his recommendations (including exercising control over every aspect of human life) are *inherently political* and not just a matter of public health shows how unfit he was for the task.
 
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URedskin54

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An article from the right that does a good job explaining how anti-vaxers don’t understand the VAERS data they’re using to say vaccines are killing people. Tucker Carlson probably does understand that it’s BS and is lying anyway, but people like Shon and Alex Berenson just don’t know what they’re reading.

 
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URedskin54

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Interesting stuff from the latest Kaiser poll. I’m a bit surprised even, since the vaccine hesitancy is a near linear correlation red to blue state, but maybe it has more to do with class and social capital than political affiliation and ideology.


AC0-DF3-D4-3336-424-E-B54-F-7-E753-B49795-C.jpg
 

shon46

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An article from the right that does a good job explaining how anti-vaxers don’t understand the VAERS data they’re using to say vaccines are killing people. Tucker Carlson probably does understand that it’s BS and is lying anyway, but people like Shon and Alex Berenson just don’t know what they’re reading.

What’s going on with these numbers. I just don’t understand. Oh and by the way, I believe in vaccinations 💉. I also believe in understanding the good and the bad.
 

watu05

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What’s going on with these numbers. I just don’t understand. Oh and by the way, I believe in vaccinations 💉. I also believe in understanding the good and the bad.
An article about one of Shon's sources here: ZeroHedge. Shon's posts conduct readers on an interesting tour of conspiracy sites around the world.
 
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TULSARISING

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We now have 29 pediatric patients in the hospital with covid , wake up people and get the vaccine , will all of you anti vaccine people be happy when kids start dying from this ?
 
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watu05

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Thoughts on this story from Reuters? Obviously not great news

The headline is misleading...it was a correction:

"Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference," Vallance said on Twitter. "About 60% of hospitalisations from COVID are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from COVID are currently from unvaccinated people."
 

URedskin54

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I agree get vaccinated. The numbers from Virginia make the benefits pretty clear.

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The fear mongering about kids ain't gonna do it for me though. That’s been done throughout this pandemic to justify harming kids in ways that are going to be felt a long time, and it was done for no good reason.
 

lawpoke87

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The headline is misleading...it was a correction:

"Correcting a statistic I gave at the press conference," Vallance said on Twitter. "About 60% of hospitalisations from COVID are not from double vaccinated people, rather 60% of hospitalisations from COVID are currently from unvaccinated people."

Those numbers are obviously better and provide some relief. Still….40% of hospitalizations coming from doubled vaxxers is considerably higher than any number or projection I’ve seen. Cause for concern?
 

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