Understading vaccine efficacy

watu05

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Those numbers are obviously better and provide some relief. Still….40% of hospitalizations coming from doubled vaxxers is considerably higher than any number or projection I’ve seen. Cause for concern?
Yes, but we don’t know anything about the 40% yet. Only about the 60%. The protection numbers from other states are in the 90+%, so let’s see if somehow Kentucky is different. If so, why?
 

watu05

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This news pumped Moderna stock 10% today. Probably Pfizer too. Rest of the market dropped like a stone.

 

lawpoke87

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Yes, but we don’t know anything about the 40% yet. Only about the 60%. The protection numbers from other states are in the 90+%, so let’s see if somehow Kentucky is different. If so, why?
I believe those stats are from the United Kingdom.
 

shon46

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Like u even know who Watu is, or even would have access to any info on him if u did.
Mind your business little man. That conversation is for the adults. Watu knows exactly what I’m talking about and how I know.
 

URedskin54

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TUMe

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CDC Director Rochelle Walensky was more detailled in an enterview about a hour ago. It was pretty clear that the Administration was looking at what options it has within it's power. I would not be surprized if we hear more sooner rather than later.
 

TUMe

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CDC Director Rochelle Walensky was more detailled in an enterview about a hour ago. It was pretty clear that the Administration was looking at what options it has within it's power. I would not be surprized if we hear more sooner rather than later.
Later she walked back some of her statements. This kind of thing does no good for the CDC nor the US public who is trying to figure out exactly what they face.
 
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lawpoke87

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CDC has been an absolute failure during this entire pandemic imo. After a year and a half to still be making public statements then walking back on them is inexcusable. We know by now that masks are only marginally effective if at all. Why haven’t we started an overall health initiative to fight this virus? Lose weight, exercise, etc. Basically, one of the best ways to ensure you don’t end up in the ER is to be in good health and ideal weight. I also haven’t heard anything from the CDC about supplements we can be talking which might help with the severity of the virus. Maybe there aren’t any?
 
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watu05

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CDC has been an absolute failure during this entire pandemic imo. After a year and a half to still be making public statements then walking back on them is inexcusable. We know by now that masks are only marginally effective if at all. Why haven’t we started an overall health initiative to fight this virus? Lose weight, exercise, etc. Basically, one of the best ways to ensure you don’t end up in the ER is to be in good health and ideal weight. I also haven’t heard anything from the CDC about supplements we can be talking which might help with the severity of the virus. Maybe there aren’t any?
Michael Lewis’ excellent book Premonition would answer some of your questions.
 

lawpoke87

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Michael Lewis’ excellent book Premonition would answer some of your questions.

The book answers some questions about the CDC’s missteps during the outset of the pandemic. It doesn’t answer why we are still making those missteps. Why isn’t there more effort to promote and even demand actions from individual citizens (besides masks and quarantines) which would ensure a less severe infection. We know what causes high risk of severe infection. Yet there is zero effort to require our citizens to eliminate these risks. All the while we are more than willing to bankrupt our citizens by shutting down their livelihoods. Makes zero sense
 
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TUMe

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Why on earth don't they just close the border? There has to be many of these people who are not vaccinated. They are forcing Americans against their will to be vaccinated. Yes, I am vaccinated and think everyone should be. It is insane that we are letting illegals in. Why?
 

aTUfan

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Why on earth don't they just close the border? There has to be many of these people who are not vaccinated. They are forcing Americans against their will to be vaccinated. Yes, I am vaccinated and think everyone should be. It is insane that we are letting illegals in. Why?
i have to show proof of vaccination to do things, yet the administration allows covid infected people in.

i dont get it
 
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astonmartin708

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Sounds like we’re now in great shape

He probably meant that there had been 350K doses given. Which would be plausible if slightly over half the country received 2 doses and a god portion more received at least one.

In other news… senile old man is showing senility. If only there had been a less insane candidate to oppose him, we might not be dealing with it.
 

lawpoke87

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CDC director just said on CNN that vaccines no longer prevent transmission due to the Delta variant. Quite the change of position.
 

URedskin54

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Numbers released by the state of Oklahoma on Wednesday breaking down hospitalization by vaccination status. The vaccines are still tremendously effective. Anyone reading this who has yet to get vaccinated please do so for your own health
 

astonmartin708

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~31 year old sister in law was just admitted to the hospital with covid. She’s pregnant and didn’t get vaccinated
 

URedskin54

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Oklahoma’s vax status breakdown this week is even more striking. Again, just a total tragedy that people spread lies and conspiracies about the vaccines. It’s also pretty apparent that getting 75-80% of the elderly fully vaccinated prevented an unmanageable disaster
C13-E0-CBD-0145-46-D6-8-B4-F-95-B5-D1887-F9-A.jpg
 
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GoldenCaneKC

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Numbers released by the state of Oklahoma on Wednesday breaking down hospitalization by vaccination status. The vaccines are still tremendously effective. Anyone reading this who has yet to get vaccinated please do so for your own health

Strange to me that the vast majority of available covid stats in the US just divide the population into two groups (vaccinated and unvaccinated), instead of three groups (fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated, and unvaccinated).

So the way it’s currently recorded, if you die from covid 13 days after receiving your second dose of a vaccine, you are counted as an “unvaccinated” death. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
 

URedskin54

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Strange to me that the vast majority of available covid stats in the US just divide the population into two groups (vaccinated and unvaccinated), instead of three groups (fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated, and unvaccinated).

So the way it’s currently recorded, if you die from covid 13 days after receiving your second dose of a vaccine, you are counted as an “unvaccinated” death. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

I suppose a line has to be drawn somewhere?

I think the 65+ group is the most indicative, because they were first in line and have been > 70% fully vaccinated for months now. So in the most recent numbers you have ~75% of that group making up only 13-14% of that group's hospitalizations while the other 25% make up 86% of the hospitalizations. That's incredibly effective.
 

TU_BLA

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Strange to me that the vast majority of available covid stats in the US just divide the population into two groups (vaccinated and unvaccinated), instead of three groups (fully vaccinated, partially vaccinated, and unvaccinated).

So the way it’s currently recorded, if you die from covid 13 days after receiving your second dose of a vaccine, you are counted as an “unvaccinated” death. That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
That's a good point and it would be interesting to know. Fact is we know the vaccines work to the extent that it greatly diminishes the likelihood of experiencing symptoms or illness that would require hospitalization.

It's also ironic that GOP politicians are now virtually BEGGING people to get vaccinated understanding that most of the people being severely affected/dying from COVID are part of their base of voters.
 
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astonmartin708

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That's a good point and it would be interesting to know. Fact is we know the vaccines work to the extent that it greatly diminishes the likelihood of experiencing symptoms or illness that would require hospitalization.

It's also ironic that GOP politicians are now virtually BEGGING people to get vaccinated understanding that most of the people being severely affected/dying from COVID are part of their base of voters.
Honestly this entire situation just makes me frustrated and angry at the imbisilic nature of such a large number of people. It also makes me angry at the people who are / were using the situation to take advantage of them. It’s like tricking mentally handicapped into harming themselves. It’s reprehensible and sad.
 

GoldenCaneKC

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I suppose a line has to be drawn somewhere?
Yeah, I understand that’s a reality, but there’s no reason why we have to draw one line somewhere instead of two.

Easy (and IMO, clearer) lines to be drawn could be:
Unvaccinated = No doses
Partially Vaccinated = From the day you receive one dose until 13 days after your second dose
Fully Vaccinated = 14+ days after second dose
 
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GoldenCaneKC

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That's a good point and it would be interesting to know. Fact is we know the vaccines work to the extent that it greatly diminishes the likelihood of experiencing symptoms or illness that would require hospitalization.
I guess my point is that classifying outcomes the way we do muddies the waters on being able to draw those conclusions about hospitalizations so easily. I’m not saying that this is the case, but hypothetically if 25% or 50% or 75% of the “non-vaccinated” hospitalizations or deaths came from people that would fall in my “partially vaccinated” category, that would significantly reframe the way everyone is thinking about the vaccines and their effectiveness. Right?

And the way the data is currently being recorded/presented prevents us from knowing that type of information.
 
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URedskin54

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Perhaps for some people it would, but just speaking for myself the information would only be marginally better. 14 days after the second dose is where studies determined the vast majority of people get full benefit. With vaccinations ongoing in younger groups it would be difficult for the health department to neatly and simply display relative effectiveness when you’ll have some people getting sick one day after a dose and others 10 days after a dose and still others 5 days after 2 doses. Most of the data we have suggests 1 dose was quite effective against prior strains but not so much against delta. 2 doses still quite effective. 65+ 14 days after the second dose is the easiest to look at because it’s a relatively stationary target. Even there though there are some differences due to waning antibodies over time.
 

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