ADVERTISEMENT

Trump conviction

100% yes.

You are someone that is pretty well in tune with the news. Yet, you don't know what took place.

It was recorded as legal retainer, and it was paid out monthly to cohen as a repayment.
I asked because the NY case focused on falsified NY business records. Any tax evasion charges would be brought by the CI under the IRS. To my knowledge the CI wasn’t involved. It doesn’t surprise me that the expenses were misreported on tax returns btw. I just asked the question as I hadn’t followed the tax angle.

Do you have an accounting background ?
 
I asked because the NY case focused on falsified NY business records. Any tax evasion charges would be brought by the CI under the IRS. To my knowledge the CI wasn’t involved. It doesn’t surprise me that the expenses were misreported on tax returns btw. I just asked the question as I hadn’t followed the tax angle.

Do you have an accounting background ?
Maybe not for the original misdemeanors, but furtherance of another crime that changed them to a felony could have included both the FEC and IRS? They were given the right to look at his tax records. That had to be for something. Vance got his tax records early in the case, and then Bragg looked at them heavily, when he took over the case iirc. I don't think the furtherance of another crime statute in NY necessarily must be a NY crime. It could be a federal crime as well.
 
Last edited:
I would like to see the same "ferver" when investaging hrc, jb, hb, ...
Or Bob Menedez, right? He's probably going to jail by the end of the year. And Hunter Biden is also on trial right now for... ahem... "filling out a form incorrectly".
 
Or Bob Menedez, right? He's probably going to jail by the end of the year. And Hunter Biden is also on trial right now for... ahem... "filling out a form incorrectly".
or hrc, jb, mgt team of the Mueller report, Nancy Pelosi, Adam shiff, chuckle shimmer,..
 
Prostitution as an entertainment business expense? Do the have a legal Red Light district in NY now?
I don't believe this was prostitution.

This pains me to say considering my assessment of the dude. But the money part was a cover up. Not a fee.
 
I don't believe this was prostitution.

This pains me to say considering my assessment of the dude. But the money part was a cover up. Not a fee.
Prostitution come in the flavor of future favors in the form of influence and/or introductions, in my mind. 🤷‍♀️

If you agree with that, then that just comes down to both parties spoken or unspoken agreement then.
 
falsified doc to a fisa court, lost 30,000 emails, threatened to hold foreign aid from a country, destroyed fbi evidence,
 
falsified doc to a fisa court, lost 30,000 emails, threatened to hold foreign aid from a country, destroyed fbi evidence,
8 years later and you still can't shut up about emails of a candidate who didn't even win and isn't in politics anymore. Maybe we should be prosecuting Mitt Romney for animal cruelty. Lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: drboobay
8 years later and you still can't shut up about emails of a candidate who didn't even win and isn't in politics anymore. Maybe we should be prosecuting Mitt Romney for animal cruelty. Lol
these are all federal crimes the were ignored, yet a rep makes a book keeping error ...
 
I asked because the NY case focused on falsified NY business records. Any tax evasion charges would be brought by the CI under the IRS. To my knowledge the CI wasn’t involved. It doesn’t surprise me that the expenses were misreported on tax returns btw. I just asked the question as I hadn’t followed the tax angle.

Do you have an accounting background ?
My understanding of the evidence (and the defense) was that Cohen was over paid to allow him to file a lawful return at no cost to him. The IRS, like this prosecutor, looked at the allegations and made the decision to not go forward.

They didn’t have any evidence he willfully violated the campaign finance statute because there was no evidence he was aware some people might consider what they were doing as illegal. Plenty of politicians enter into NDAs, including Democratic presidential candidates. But there was evidence they tried to comply with lawful tax obligations.

And as you point out, this prosecutor has no jurisdiction over either matter. They only reason this is in state court is the prosecutor decided to re-visit his previous decision not to go forward on state misdemeanor records charges because his political rival announced she was moving forward against Trump in part because he initially declined to prosecute him.
 
a cover up is not an illegal action

My understanding of the evidence (and the defense) was that Cohen was over paid to allow him to file a lawful return at no cost to him. The IRS, like this prosecutor, looked at the allegations and made the decision to not go forward.

They didn’t have any evidence he willfully violated the campaign finance statute because there was no evidence he was aware some people might consider what they were doing as illegal. Plenty of politicians enter into NDAs, including Democratic presidential candidates. But there was evidence they tried to comply with lawful tax obligations.

And as you point out, this prosecutor has no jurisdiction over either matter. They only reason this is in state court is the prosecutor decided to re-visit his previous decision not to go forward on state misdemeanor records charges because his political rival announced she was moving forward against Trump in part because he initially declined to prosecute him.
You are giving them way too much credit. They looked at it and said they weren't willing to stake their careers without a lockdown case. Maybe they didn't have the evidence that has now been obtained.

Or they were Republicans with no nuts. Lots of Republicans believe that Nixon was wronged.

Maybe they thought a republican would just come a long and overturn it.

Maybe they wanted a job at a republican law firm after.

Get real brah.
 
You are giving them way too much credit. They looked at it and said they weren't willing to stake their careers without a lockdown case. Maybe they didn't have the evidence that has now been obtained.

Or they were Republicans with no nuts. Lots of Republicans believe that Nixon was wronged.

Maybe they thought a republican would just come a long and overturn it.

Maybe they wanted a job at a republican law firm after.

Get real brah.
More likely they were hesitant to bring a case to trial on a legal theory which has never been used to prosecute anyone. As such, I assumed they realized any prosecution of such a theory would appear political motivated. In the end the timing of the prosecution certainly didn’t help the optics.
 
More likely they were hesitant to bring a case to trial on a legal theory which has never been used to prosecute anyone. As such, I assumed they realized any prosecution of such a theory would appear political motivated. In the end the timing of the prosecution certainly didn’t help the optics.
Because there has NEVER been a case like this. But you can tell me if I am wrong about that.

Trump is a unique individual.

Stealing money from charities.
Committing tax fraud and bank fraud

Trying to steal elections...

I mean you all act like this is normal stuff. It amazes me you want to normalize this.

By the new Republican standard they have created, when you lose, you get to go call a 40,000 person mob to the capitol and have them go break in and tear the place apart and not get impeached or prosecuted. Isn't that cool?
 
Because there has NEVER been a case like this. But you can tell me if I am wrong about that.

Trump is a unique individual.

Stealing money from charities.
Committing tax fraud and bank fraud

Trying to steal elections...

I mean you all act like this is normal stuff. It amazes me you want to normalize this.

By the new Republican standard they have created, when you lose, you get to go call a 40,000 person mob to the capitol and have them go break in and tear the place apart and not get impeached or prosecuted. Isn't that cool?
You don’t think politicians have ever committed misdemeanors before in efforts to conceal information which they believe might reflect negatively on them politically ?
 
You don’t think politicians have ever committed misdemeanors before in efforts to conceal information which they believe might reflect negatively on them politically ?
Nancy Pelosi wrote legislation that favored unions and minimum wage; her companies were exempt.
 
You don’t think politicians have ever committed misdemeanors before in efforts to conceal information which they believe might reflect negatively on them politically ?
Do you think they had their lawyer take out a 400k loan, slowly pay them 15k a month to book it as a "legal retainer," and then stop paying him? GTFOH
 
Do you think they had their lawyer take out a 400k loan, slowly pay them 15k a month to book it as a "legal retainer," and then stop paying him? GTFOH
The only part of this statement which is illegal on its face might be the misclassifcation of the payment. Which is a misdemeanor. Again…the fact pattern doesn’t really matter. A politician was guilty of several misdemeanors in an attempt to hide an act which he believed might hurt his political career. The State of NY decided to parlay those into felony charges. If you have another instance where this has been done prior please post.

Are you suggesting the prosecution wasn’t politically motivated.
 
The only part of this statement which is illegal on its face might be the misclassifcation of the payment. Which is a misdemeanor. Again…the fact pattern doesn’t really matter. A politician was guilty of several misdemeanors in an attempt to hide an act which he believed might hurt his political career. The State of NY decided to parlay those into felony charges. If you have another instance where this has been done prior please post.

Are you suggesting the prosecution wasn’t politically motivated.
They didn't just decide to turn it into a felony, they followed NY law.

FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS: DEFINITION AND ELEMENTS
The legal language establishing the degrees of Falsifying Business Records have specifically defined elements and terms that not merely may but will have an impact on your case. Two of these words, "enterprise" and "business record," for example, have specific meanings that you must discuss with your counsel. Simply, if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: drboobay
You don’t think politicians have ever committed misdemeanors before in efforts to conceal information which they believe might reflect negatively on them politically ?
Politicians do all kinds of vile things. I already mentioned that.

He is special though. He sat quietly for hours while a mob destroyed the Capitol with the goal of overturning the election.

How can you feel any outrage or sympathy for a guy like that?

Let him appeal and see where it goes. But the outrage seems ridiculous. Seriously.
 
They didn't just decide to turn it into a felony, they followed NY law.

FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS: DEFINITION AND ELEMENTS
The legal language establishing the degrees of Falsifying Business Records have specifically defined elements and terms that not merely may but will have an impact on your case. Two of these words, "enterprise" and "business record," for example, have specific meanings that you must discuss with your counsel. Simply, if you delete, alter or make a false entry in the business records of an enterprise and you do so with the intent to defraud, you have run afoul of the misdemeanor crime. If when you do so, you also have the intent to further or conceal another criminal offense, then you have committed the felony crime.
Again…show me one other case where this legal theory has been prosecuted as a felony in NY. I would tend to give NY the benefit of the doubt but after the civil trial for over valuation of an asset on a performing loan it is fairly obvious NY is filing legal actions based on politics. I’ve been representing banks for over 30 years and I’ve never heard of such a thing.

I don’t really care about Trump. I’m not voting for him in November. I do care about the precedent here. Using the courts to attack your political opponents is about as dangerous of a precedent as exists. If someone wants to argue these two actions were not politically motivated I will be glad to listen.
 
I always thought we should hold our politicians, especially our president to a higher standard. Apparently a number of people out there don't hold to that. The next guy out there wasn't running for office. He was only wanting to fool his wife.
 
I always thought we should hold our politicians, especially our president to a higher standard. Apparently a number of people out there don't hold to that. The next guy out there wasn't running for office. He was only wanting to fool his wife.
If we held our Presidents to a higher standard we would have different nominees this time around. One second thought I may agree with you :). The problem is not holding an elected official to a certain standard. The problem is the opposing party using lawfare against a politician and ignoring the legal issues associated with their people. If you want to apply a “higher standard” then I’m fine with said standard. However, partisans can’t be the ones to set and apply that standard. Good luck with that.
 
Again…show me one other case where this legal theory has been prosecuted as a felony in NY. I would tend to give NY the benefit of the doubt but after the civil trial for over valuation of an asset on a performing loan it is fairly obvious NY is filing legal actions based on politics. I’ve been representing banks for over 30 years and I’ve never heard of such a thing.

I don’t really care about Trump. I’m not voting for him in November. I do care about the precedent here. Using the courts to attack your political opponents is about as dangerous of a precedent as exists. If someone wants to argue these two actions were not politically motivated I will be glad to listen.
I'll show you a NY law firm who used to be prosecuting attorneys for Manhattan county, who warn their clients against doing this on their web page. If it doesn't come up on the right page then click on FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS: on the right side of this page under Practice Areas. I'm assuming that felonies aren't as uncommon as some might think. Look under FBR: Definition and Elements and you'll find what I quoted above.

Like I said before, I don't have paid access to those records for my business. I would assume you as an attorney would be more likely to have paid access to cases that have been taken to court than I as a layman would. You are an attorney yes? I am not. I have nothing that makes a subscription to Lexus Nexus worth the money to me.
 
If we held our Presidents to a higher standard we would have different nominees this time around. One second thought I may agree with you :). The problem is not holding an elected official to a certain standard. The problem is the opposing party using lawfare against a politician and ignoring the legal issues associated with their people. If you want to apply a “higher standard” then I’m fine with said standard. However, partisans can’t be the ones to set and apply that standard. Good luck with that.
Convictions and/or Charges for felonies since 2010 in NY. Here are 8.
 
I'll show you a NY law firm who used to be prosecuting attorneys for Manhattan county, who warn their clients against doing this on their web page. If it doesn't come up on the right page then click on FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS: on the right side of this page under Practice Areas. I'm assuming that felonies aren't as uncommon as some might think. Look under FBR: Definition and Elements and you'll find what I quoted above.

Like I said before, I don't have paid access to those records for my business. I would assume you as an attorney would be more likely to have paid access to cases that have been taken to court than I as a layman would. You are an attorney yes? I am not. I have nothing that makes a subscription to Lexus Nexus worth the money to me.
I haven’t subscribed to Lexus Nexus in years. I don’t have the need to research case law often in dealing with real estate and banking. When I do I call in a favor.

NY claimed the misdemeanors (misreported a business expense on company books) was done in an effort to promote the election of someone by unlawful means. The judge never defined the term “unlawful means”. It’s this legal theory which I’ve never seen used to bring felony charges. Again…I would tend to give NY some leeway even after the DA’s campaign rhetoric but the civil case makes such grace dubious imo. Looks like a focused effort based on politics.

Those cases you cited all resulted in losses to either individuals or the state from a quick glance. Don’t see many similarities.

Again…Trump can rot as far as I’m concerned. The precedent here is political prosecution and that’s what I’m worried about. The civil case actually might concern me more than the criminal. Especially given NY’s history.
 
I haven’t subscribed to Lexus Nexus in years. I don’t have the need to research case law often in dealing with real estate and banking. When I do I call in a favor.

NY claimed the misdemeanors (misreported a business expense on company books) was done in an effort to promote the election of someone by unlawful means. The judge never defined the term “unlawful means”. It’s this legal theory which I’ve never seen used to bring felony charges. Again…I would tend to give NY some leeway even after the DA’s campaign rhetoric but the civil case makes such grace dubious imo. Looks like a focused effort based on politics.

Those cases you cited all resulted in losses to either individuals or the state from a quick glance. Don’t see many similarities.
Unlawful means in that he had to commit a misdemeanor by misreporting the business expense in order to cover up the affair with the porn actress. That is a simple circular argument, there was nothing to prove. He committed the misdemeanor to cover up the fact that he was buying the article to cover up the incident so that it would not get reported to the public. If he did not commit the misdemeanor then he might not have been elected, thus he committed the misdemeanor in order to ensure that he got elected. He defrauded the voters by covering up the payment to Stormy Daniels for the rights to the article, which was the misdemeanor that then became a felony.

Defrauding the voters is what made it a felony. That was the whole point behind him committing the misdemeanor.
 
Last edited:
Politicians do all kinds of vile things. I already mentioned that.

He is special though. He sat quietly for hours while a mob destroyed the Capitol with the goal of overturning the election.

How can you feel any outrage or sympathy for a guy like that?

Let him appeal and see where it goes. But the outrage seems ridiculous. Seriously.
Nancy Pelosi has admitted she was responsible for not calling in the NG
 
Unlawful means in that he had to commit a misdemeanor by misreporting the business expense in order to cover up the affair with the porn actress. That is a simple circular argument, there was nothing to prove. He committed the misdemeanor to cover up the fact that he was buying the article to cover up the incident so that it would not get reported to the public. If he did not commit the misdemeanor then he might not have been elected, thus he committed the misdemeanor in order to ensure that he got elected. He defrauded the voters by covering up the payment to Stormy Daniels for the rights to the article, which was the misdemeanor that then became a felony.

Defrauding the voters is what made it a felony. That was the whole point behind him committing the misdemeanor.
The irony is he had no chance of winning the state of NY. Didn’t matter whether the story broke or not. Presidents having an extra marital affair matters little in the mind of voters these days. I thought he made a mistake in not claiming he hid the affair for the sake of his marriage ala Bill Clinton. In any event, as I said above I’m not aware of any prior felony prosecution of a misdemeanor where no loss was suffered by any party. Much like his civil prosecution. Which again concerns me more than the criminal. The state sued a businessman for allegedly overstating the value of collateral used on a performing loan. I assume NY went through all his business dealings until they found something they thought they could use at trial? Care to argue this wasn’t political ?
 
The irony is he had no chance of winning the state of NY. Didn’t matter whether the story broke or not. Presidents having an extra marital affair matters little in the mind of voters these days. I thought he made a mistake in not claiming he hid the affair for the sake of his marriage ala Bill Clinton. In any event, as I said above I’m not aware of any prior felony prosecution of a misdemeanor where no loss was suffered by any party. Much like his civil prosecution. Which again concerns me more than the criminal. The state sued a businessman for allegedly overstating the value of collateral used on a performing loan.
The penalty is what I saw as being out of line, in the civil prosecution. He had egregiously (likely done it more extremely, and more frequently than 95% of the others who had committed the same offense) done that over the years. I was fine with him getting busted on that, but I don't think it was proper the penalty he received for his first conviction on this offense. And on the criminal offense, regardless of whether it affected the NY vote, he did it to cover it up to the other states. So what, that's his problem.
 
The penalty is what I saw as being out of line, in the civil prosecution. He had egregiously (likely done it more extremely, and more frequently than 95% of the others who had committed the same offense) done that over the years. I was fine with him getting busted on that, but I don't think it was proper the penalty he received for his first conviction on this offense. And on the criminal offense, regardless of whether it affected the NY vote, he did it to cover it up to the other states. So what, that's his problem.
NY sued a businessman for misstating collateral where no one lost a single penny. No loan went into default. In fact, the lender supported the valuations and stated they would make the loans again. Such a lawsuit is largely unprecedented. Moreover, the suit was brought by an AG who promised to “take down” an individual of a rival political party as part of her campaign. Once she took office she went through a political rivals business records until she found something she thought she could take to court Surely you can see the dangerous precedent being set here.
 
Nancy Pelosi has admitted she was responsible for not calling in the NG
So what?

Not my point at all. It is a comment on his character. He watched it all silently for hours. What kind of person does that? He is a terrible guy. I have not an ounce of sympathy for him.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT