Monty staying.

[Hurricane Drummer]

Winning against our Big 3 regional rivals is one MAJOR thing that would really turn this program around. And beat them when they're good I might add. The last coaches to beat OU, OSU, and Arkansas when those teams finished with winning records?

Don Morton. Beat OSU in 1986.
Claude "Hoot" Gibson. Beat Arkansas in 1971.
Henry Frnka. Beat OU in 1945.

Frnka also beat Arkansas and Oklahoma A&M in 1945 but those teams finished with losing records.

Blank, Graham, Krag, Monty, Rader, and lots of other guys sure never accomplished anything like this.

 

[astonmartin708]

Winning against our Big 3 regional rivals is one MAJOR thing that would really turn this program around. And beat them when they're good I might add. The last coaches to beat OU, OSU, and Arkansas when those teams finished with winning records?

Don Morton. Beat OSU in 1986.
Claude "Hoot" Gibson. Beat Arkansas in 1971.
Henry Frnka. Beat OU in 1945.

Frnka also beat Arkansas and Oklahoma A&M in 1945 but those teams finished with losing records.

Blank, Graham, Krag, Monty, Rader, and lots of other guys sure never accomplished anything like this.

Monty has been much closer than Blank and Graham.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Monty has been much closer than Blank and Graham.

Are you someone in disguise?
Close losses are easy to swallow the year after a 10 win season.
Not so much 3 years after one.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Are you someone in disguise?
Close losses are easy to swallow the year after a 10 win season.
Not so much 3 years after one.

He's a contrarian.

 

[TulsaAM]

I gotcha. At the end of the day you still are paid well and have to produce results. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.”

This has been Monty's biggest problem, he hasn't learned that at a school like Tulsa you have to adapt and innovate, it's a chess game at TU where you have to take big risks to win. This offense needs top tier Division I players at all positions to be successful, which you aren't getting at Tulsa.

And I agree, our facility investment has lagged behind but Case was a huge improvement over what was there. Two words, Parking Garage

 

[Henry Kendall]

Two words, Parking Garage

I thought the two words were Indoorpractice Facility.

 

[TU_BLA]

I can’t find the new head coach thread where we speculated on a new head coach and who they could bring in as assistants. We mentioned Nick Graham as a potential DB Coach. Well, he was just named the CB coach at UTSA.

 

[TU_BLA]

Two words, Parking Garage

I thought the two words were Indoorpractice Facility.

Can we please get off the damn parking garage? They are among the most expensive per sq foot cost to build, you get relatively little return on them in terms of use. TU does not need one. I went to all 6 home games this year, never parked further than 5th place on campus and never paid a dime to park on campus. And we’re not the types to show up hours in advance and hang out and such. And TU does a really good job with game day shuttles running on campus and regularly.

IPF would be a much better ROI for the entire athletic dept.

 

[dlsnid]

I agree we need IPF.

 

[HuffyCane]

The two words are July 2021.

As in none of this discussion matters until then, if then, and only regarding the IPF.

The parking garage just ain’t gonna happen. Full stop. It is more likely that Nick Saban will become interested in the head coaching position at TU after reading our free board one night at 3am than it is that a parking garage will be built.

 

[rusty-c]

I wish we would all quit posting in this thread. I get depressed each time I see the title... Maybe we can forget he's still our coach till spring ball comes around....

 

[TU 1978]

The two words are July 2021.
.

Yes, the magic date of July 2021. By that date the school will have been either

Fully restored and in great shape,

or

Driven into the ground by Kaiser and his minions and rebranded Kaiser College.

Perhaps the parking garage will be built underground beneath the IPF.

 

[TU_BLA]

Perhaps the parking garage will be built underground beneath the IPF.

I know you are kidding with this but there are those that have clamored for a parking garage on campus who might think this is a brilliant idea. I can tell you why it is not and probably not feasible for TU. In addition to being super expensive to build a parking garage, it triples when you go underground, especially in Tulsa. Shallow bedrock, high water table= construction nightmare.

 

[HuffyCane]

I know you are kidding with this but there are those that have clamored for a parking garage on campus who might think this is a brilliant idea. I can tell you why it is not and probably not feasible for TU. In addition to being super expensive to build a parking garage, it triples when you go underground, especially in Tulsa. Shallow bedrock, high water table= construction nightmare.

There’s a whole thread, at least five screens long, about subterranean TU and what needs to be fixed. It’s taking awhile, but the issues are being sorted. but the cliff notes is they aren’t building down if for no other reason than the security issues/costs that would create to keep it safe. “Safe and secure from all alarm, Leaning on the everlasting arms of TU.” That’s the new chorus these days.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Can we please get off the damn parking garage? They are among the most expensive per sq foot cost to build, you get relatively little return on them in terms of use. TU does not need one. I went to all 6 home games this year, never parked further than 5th place on campus and never paid a dime to park on campus. And we’re not the types to show up hours in advance and hang out and such. And TU does a really good job with game day shuttles running on campus and regularly.

IPF would be a much better ROI for the entire athletic dept.

Yep.
No freaking need for a parking garage.

 

[astonmartin708]

There’s a whole thread, at least five screens long, about subterranean TU and what needs to be fixed. It’s taking awhile, but the issues are being sorted. but the cliff notes is they aren’t building down if for no other reason than the security issues/costs that would create to keep it safe. “Safe and secure from all alarm, Leaning on the everlasting arms of TU.” That’s the new chorus these days.

So you're saying the cost for campo to patrol an underground parking structure is the major mitigating factor?

 

[HuffyCane]

So you're saying the cost for campo to patrol an underground parking structure is the major mitigating factor?

I’m saying any building is going to be examined closely for hidden long term costs. Liability insurance and expanded security responsibilities would be part of any fiscal analysis for building such a structure and would further tip the scales towards not doing it, particularly when that money could be invested in further retrofitting the East side to make it more attractive to the modern fan experience so we can fill that up for TV. Let’s do things to attract people back inside the stadium before we worry about where people are going to park outside of it.

They would never do it, but if we had OSU money to build substantially, I’d tear down or tear out the East side, fix all the plumbing problems, all the lightning issues and construct a similar sized facility that matches the historical architecture but with modern plumbing, facilities, amenities, seating that is spaced for the average Oklahoman in the 21st Century, not the 19th, dedicated accelerated Wi-Fi for the students and premium donors and several other needed additions. Basically what Camden Yards did. The Drillers proved that people will come to the games if you give them value inside the stadium.

 

[chito_and_leon]

“Safe and secure from all alarm, Leaning on the everlasting arms of TU.” That’s the new chorus these days.

This might be the most important and least appreciated line ever posted on this board. Club Med TU. "Now come here and have a big hug and a warm cup of hot cocoa, we don't want you feeling any stress or anxiety."- Every TU professor from now on. The cost for all the extra emotional support dogs for the students who took the vapors because they hear something go bump in the night in the parking garage would be prohibitive.

 

[astonmartin708]

I’m saying any building is going to be examined closely for hidden long term costs. Liability insurance and expanded security responsibilities would be part of any fiscal analysis for building such a structure and would further tip the scales towards not doing it, particularly when that money could be invested in further retrofitting the East side to make it more attractive to the modern fan experience so we can fill that up for TV. Let’s do things to attract people back inside the stadium before we worry about where people are going to park outside of it.

Honestly, you kind of need to do both. The "if you build it, they will come" belief is a bit flawed. I look at it kind of like Disney World. Yes... people will come to the swamp in Florida to see your theme park.... but, only if you put the proper infrastructure there to process them. If you're going to want 30,000 people in your theme park at a time, you're going to need places for 30,000 people to park when they get there.... and places for 30,000 people to eat. Yes, all of us know the places around TU to park... but for quite a few casual fans, the hastle in trying to find where they're allowed vs. where they're liable to be towed is a problem. Not saying a parking garage is the ultimate solution. But something needs to be done to improve ease of access for casual fans.

Every single lot on campus being for GHC pass holders only is ridiculous. Especially when many of the lots never fill on gameday anyway.

The saddest line in TU's press release for gameday parking:

"Free Parking is available for some games on the OSU-Tulsa campus in downtown at 700 North Greenwood Ave. Shuttle services run to and from those available games."

The fact that we're promoting parking at OSU-Tulsa just to see a TU game is friggin pathetic. Keep in mind, downtown Tulsa is probably pretty out of the way for the suburban Tulsa fans we'd really like to attract from BA, Jenks, Owasso, Bixby, etc... So, not only do they have to come all the way to TU... they have to take a big detour before they can get free parking.

 

[aTUfan]

We finally get into a good conference and we are flittering it away.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Honestly, you kind of need to do both. The "if you build it, they will come" belief is a bit flawed. I look at it kind of like Disney World. Yes... people will come to the swamp in Florida to see your theme park.... but, only if you put the proper infrastructure there to process them. If you're going to want 30,000 people in your theme park at a time, you're going to need places for 30,000 people to park when they get there.... and places for 30,000 people to eat. Yes, all of us know the places around TU to park... but for quite a few casual fans, the hastle in trying to find where they're allowed vs. where they're liable to be towed is a problem. Not saying a parking garage is the ultimate solution. But something needs to be done to improve ease of access for casual fans.

Every single lot on campus having a parking lot on campus being for GHC pass holders only is ridiculous. Especially when many of the lots never fill on gameday anyway.

The saddest line in TU's press release for gameday parking:

"Free Parking is available for some games on the OSU-Tulsa campus in downtown at 700 North Greenwood Ave. Shuttle services run to and from those available games."

The fact that we're promoting parking at OSU-Tulsa just to see a TU game is friggin pathetic. Keep in mind, downtown Tulsa is probably pretty out of the way for the suburban Tulsa fans we'd really like to attract from BA, Jenks, Owasso, Bixby, etc... So, not only do they have to come all the way to TU... they have to take a big detour before they can get free parking.

Parking doesn’t matter.
Not enough folks will come to see a 2,3,4 win team for parking to be an issue.

Granted, your point on GHC lots is very true. So many folks are pissed when they walk 4-5 blocks from the neighborhoods only to pass half empty lots on campus. Very shortsighted...

 

[astonmartin708]

Our gameday parking strategy is basically like Walt Disney World saying...."Free parking is available at Universal Studios"

 

[astonmartin708]

Parking doesn’t matter.
Not enough folks will come to see a 2,3,4 win team for parking to be an issue.

Granted, your point on GHC lots is very true. So many folks are pissed when they walk 4-5 blocks from the neighborhoods only to pass half empty lots in campus.

Lol. It's true that you have to put out a product for people to come see too. No one was going to come to Disney World if all it had was a petting zoo, but it had the best infrastructure in the world. Like I said... you desperately need both.

 

[TU_BLA]

when that money could be invested in further retrofitting the East side to make it more attractive to the modern fan experience so we can fill that up for TV. Let’s do things to attract people back inside the stadium before we worry about where people are going to park outside of it.

You know what would enhance the east side, adding an adjustable sunshade to the west side. That is the single most problem with day games in Skelly right now and no one wants to sit in the east stands, baking like a potato, and going blind staring into the sun.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

As far as I know, underground parking is almost nonexistent on other campuses. So why are we trying to justify this incredible expense for the umpteenth time.

 

[astonmartin708]

As far as I know, underground parking is almost nonexistent on other campuses. So why are we trying to justify this incredible expense for the umpteenth time.

I wasn't trying to justify it. I was just trying to justify available free parking near campus. Be it a garage, a new lot, or just a reorganization of the GHC lots.

I don't care what they do... they just need to figure something out.

 

[TU_BLA]

As far as I know, underground parking is almost nonexistent on other campuses. So why are we trying to justify this incredible expense for the umpteenth time.

Parking garages do exist on other campuses. Baylor has 3-4 of them, all on the perimeter corners mainly because there is little to no parking on the interior of campus. They also have 4x the amount of students of TU and 75% of them live off campus. Large state schools have parking garages because they have many more students, many more commuters, and space limitations. Most on this board want a parking garage to make it more convenient for them to park within 100 yds of Skelly or the DonRey and make parking an easy target to blame for attendance issues. We've been round and round and I can't remember who falls on what side of this issue...this isn't directed at anyone in particular. We do not have a parking problem for home games at TU...period. We just don't. Campus has plenty of parking spaces to handle its population of commuters, residents, and employees. Yes, it may be a 3-5 minute walk to your class, but be real people, that's like a 2-3 block walk.

 

[astonmartin708]

Parking garages do exist on other campuses. Baylor has 3-4 of them, all on the perimeter corners mainly because there is little to no parking on the interior of campus. They also have 4x the amount of students of TU and 75% of them live off campus. Large state schools have parking garages because they have many more students, many more commuters, and space limitations. Most on this board want a parking garage to make it more convenient for them to park within 100 yds of Skelly or the DonRey and make parking an easy target to blame for attendance issues. We've been round and round and I can't remember who falls on what side of this issue...this isn't directed at anyone in particular. We do not have a parking problem for home games at TU...period. We just don't. Campus has plenty of parking spaces to handle its population of commuters, residents, and employees. Yes, it may be a 3-5 minute walk to your class, but be real people, that's like a 2-3 block walk.

And I quote.... TU has free parking available AT OSU-TULSA... which is 4 miles away from campus! If you don't see that as a problem.... I'm not sure what you're smoking. We may not have a problem regarding parking on gamedays when we have 16K announced attendance... but if we actually want consistent sellouts someday? We have to acknowledge there's a problem.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Does OU or OSU have underground parking? Really an actual question.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Parking doesn’t matter.
Not enough folks will come to see a 2,3,4 win team for parking to be an issue.

LOL, it's surreal to be discussing parking when the program is rotting away! It's the classic chairs on the deck of the titanic. And maybe if we add padding to the benches people will suddenly want to come watch a boring football team lose! Yeah, let's go!

 

[TU_BLA]

I wasn't trying to justify it. I was just trying to justify available free parking near campus. Be it a garage, a new lot, or just a reorganization of the GHC lots.

I don't care what they do... they just need to figure something out.

STOP!!! Parking is not a problem for games at TU...it's a convenient excuse people give or want to give. These same people who make the excuse would pay $25 to park in someone's yard, boxed in, and then walk 10 blocks to go see an OU game. There's plenty of parking for games, even during sell-outs that is both free and nearby. TU has made it even easier when you consider the shuttle routes on game days.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Solutions for the future.

 

[TU_BLA]

And I quote.... TU has free parking available AT OSU-TULSA... which is 4 miles away from campus! If you don't see that as a problem.... I'm not sure what you're smoking. We may not have a problem regarding parking on gamedays when we have 16K announced attendance... but if we actually want consistent sellouts someday? We have to acknowledge there's a problem.

That's an official line. You literally can park anywhere on campus you can get to for free. I always park right behind BAH. You can park in any of the lots with the apartments on the north side of campus. Many people talk about parking in the neighborhood south of campus (I did this for the UCF game, 1 block from the gate). Park in the F&M/Prosperity bank lot- FREE, 5-7 minute walk. Why the hell are we having this convo again? It's not an actual problem.

 

[astonmartin708]

LOL, it's surreal to be discussing parking when the program is rotting away! It's the classic chairs on the deck of the titanic. And maybe if we add padding to the benches people will suddenly want to come watch a boring football team lose! Yeah, let's go!

I'm not saying parking is going to bring more people next season. I'm saying that it will bring more people when we have a team that is winning 10 games consistently.

 

[astonmartin708]

That's an official line. You literally can park anywhere on campus you can get to for free. I always park right behind BAH. You can park in any of the lots with the apartments on the north side of campus. Many people talk about parking in the neighborhood south of campus (I did this for the UCF game, 1 block from the gate). Park in the F&M/Prosperity bank lot- FREE, 5-7 minute walk. Why the hell are we having this convo again? It's not an actual problem.

Again... you're talking about people who know campus and the surrounding area. I'm talking about people that might not have gone to TU. Every single lot on campus has a sign that says you may not park there without a pass, and on gamedays, there are attendants on most of the lots that would be free on any other day (like the Harvard lot). Can people park in the neighborhoods / businesses surrounding campus? Sure... but that doesn't make people want to come. We're not OU. We don't have history of winning season after winning season drawing people to campus no matter the difficulty. Ease of access to casual fans is an issue during winning seasons.

 

[astonmartin708]

Look at it like an oil well. Right now... we have a well that's producing 10 barrels per day. We have a pipeline that sized to carry off 10 barrel per day from the well.

We want more oil. We are going to recomplete the oil well in a different manner that allows us to produce 100 barrels per day... but we still only have a pipeline that allows us to transport 10 barrels per day away. We have a sizing issue. We need to pay to install a pipeline to accommodate the flow that we are trying to achieve rather than what we currently have. We also need to pay to recomplete the well so that it will produce what we know it can. We need to do BOTH.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Look at it like an oil well. Right now... we have a well that's producing 10 barrels per day. We have a pipeline that sized to carry off 10 barrel per day from the well.

We want more oil. We are going to recomplete the oil well in a different manner that allows us to produce 100 barrels per day... but we still only have a pipeline that allows us to transport 10 barrels per day away. We have a sizing issue. We need to pay to install a pipeline to accommodate the flow that we are trying to achieve rather than what we currently have. We also need to pay to recomplete the well so that it will produce what we know it can. We need to do BOTH.

If you have 2 essentially intractable problems, it's best to focus all your effort on the first one since any effort on the 2nd is wasted until the first is solved. And the first problem - since it's virtually intractable - needs 110% of the resources you can give it. You literally cannot have enough resources focused on it. So at least get to "light at the end of the tunnel" level before focusing on the 2nd.

Your oil well example assumes the first problem is easily solvable, but that's not the case here. so it's a completely different analysis. Believe me, I've made this mistake. Not only do you fail, but you look stupid doing it.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Look at it like an oil well. Right now... we have a well that's producing 10 barrels per day. We have a pipeline that sized to carry off 10 barrel per day from the well.

We want more oil. We are going to recomplete the oil well in a different manner that allows us to produce 100 barrels per day... but we still only have a pipeline that allows us to transport 10 barrels per day away. We have a sizing issue. We need to pay to install a pipeline to accommodate the flow that we are trying to achieve rather than what we currently have. We also need to pay to recomplete the well so that it will produce what we know it can. We need to do BOTH.

That's why I posted that future planning for colleges on parking. It is a wiser article, than spending a bunch of money on underground parking. That underground lot will not be necessary when the blue hairs are no longer alive. The 20 and 30 year olds will take the place of the blue hairs eventually, and the 40 and 50 year olds of today will adapt.

 

[chito_and_leon]

That's why I posted that future planning for colleges on parking. It is a wiser article, than spending a bunch of money on underground parking. That underground lost will not be necessary when the blue hairs are no longer alive. The 20 and 30 year olds will take the place of the blue hairs eventually, and the 40 and 50 year olds of today will adapt.

Have every VP and above level TU employee serve as a valet on game day. No fan would ever have to wait for a valet!

 

[astonmartin708]

If you have 2 essentially intractable problems, it's best to focus all your effort on the first one since any effort on the 2nd is wasted until the first is solved. And the first problem - since it's virtually intractable - needs 110% of the resources you can give it. You literally cannot have enough resources focused on it. So at least get to "light at the end of the tunnel" level before focusing on the 2nd.

Your oil well example assumes the first problem is easily solvable, but that's not the case here. so it's a completely different analysis. Believe me, I've made this mistake. Not only do you fail, but you look stupid doing it.

In the case I pointed out though, you argue that the second is wasted until the first is completed. But the opposite is also true the first is wasted until the second is completed.

Though it's not as plainly cut and dry in this case for TU as to the issues being equally weighted... I think TU has the potential to tackle both issues at the same time if it could sort out its finances and its financial / academic / athletic direction for the future. Especially given the fact that we are going to be getting more money for athletics than we ever have before.