And then Burnham blew out his knee first game senior year as well, and the only reason Trey Watts was at TU is because Bill convinced him to walk on.
Monty staying.
- Thread starter jerandlaur
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And then Burnham blew out his knee first game senior year as well, and the only reason Trey Watts was at TU is because Bill convinced him to walk on.
LOL. Look I get it. BB was fired because we didn’t win enough. That’s the bottom line. That’s all that matters. But the Burns/Blankenship comparison is the only thing I took issue with. We had multiple drafted NFL players on offense for KB. Didn’t matter.
The spin doctoring of 3 wins per year the last three is weak. Ifs and buts.
Whatever. I have know idea why I’m actually typing this out.
The spin doctoring of 3 wins per year the last three is weak. Ifs and buts.
Whatever. I have know idea why I’m actually typing this out.
And that team still went to the Liberty Bowl and kicked the ever living crap out of Iowa State.
It's easy to compare raw numbers, it's harder to make equal comparisons when there are a number of variables at play. BB didn't have the luxury of recruiting to the AAC name or brand. There wasn't an automatic NY6 bowl tie in at stake. Yes, we were competing against all the same schools for the most part, but the AAC has some actual credibility of being P6...C-USA was never close to that level of national credibility. BB was also not given a whole ton of $$$ to increase standards for his assistants nor his recruiting budget even when he did win.
Monty has all of those advantages, a sweeter TV deal that's about to get sweeter. He gets to say to recruits you have a real chance of playing in the Cotton Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl or the Orange Bowl. He also gets to tell recruits, we're playing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Arkansas at home.
BB didn't leave the cupboard bare, just as Burns didn't leave it bare for Kragthorpe. Sometimes a new perspective and new philosophy is needed when things get stagnant.
Of all the coaches we've had over the last 27 years (since I started following), only Todd Graham understood the need to constantly adapt styles, IMO. Everyone else had developed a style which also bore out in their stubborness (or resistance) to adapt or change when things didn't work. Monty is doing the same thing now with his resistance to hiring an OC and giving up some control.
To be fair to Monty, he has to deal with the same issues with not being able to pay for quality assistants. Plus, he also has an AD that openly brags about our coaches having their salaries cut and using our TV money, not to increase athletic funding, but to decrease the amount of money the university spends on athletics. Monty doesn't have an easy job right now.
I really wish Gragg hadn’t said that. That may haunt us.
You just don’t like BB and keep using him to try to justify your points. BB is a friend and former teammate of mine. Putting my cards on the table I have great respect for him as a person, player and coach (there many factors at TU that people don’t appreciate).I don’t agree that BB left Monty the quality of talent (overall) that Graham left BB. If Monty is handed the team that BB was in 2011 I think Monty’s numbers go up significantly. Monty’s offense is light years better than BB’s ever was and Monty also had to deal with being given ae defensive unit by BB. I think if Monty is handed GJ, Clay, Johnson, Douglas, Watts, Burnham, Garrett, Singleton + an established O’line and a special defense with guys like Dexter Mccoill, Shawn Jackson, Jared St. John, D’andre Brown... Monty wins a conference championship in the AAC.
I have tried to keep my personal feelings for Bill out of this discussion because it is about Monty and his performance as a coach not Bill! All of us wanted Monty to be successful but he has not been. You want to give him certain considerations that you would not to previous coaches. You cannot in anyway justify his continued position as HC based on performance. Performance is W/Ls not close games, slight improvement, etc... We have all come to understand his continued employment is not based on performance but on $$$!
I like Monty as a person but he has not been a good HC. There were numerous occasions where his game decisions cost us wins. I would argue that with better game management in 17 and particularly 18 we would have a couple of more wins. In 2019 better game decisions would have resulted in a minimum of 2 and possibly 4 more wins. If those wins had occurred we would not be having this discussion. I will support the team because I bleed TU Blue but unless he has better in game decisions (which likely won’t unless he brings in either and OC or game manager) we will not see the improvement needed to compete. It is about wins and losses.
Got any theories on what possessed him to make that public? I can't think of rational reason to do it.
Wow, saw one thing about Championships and charts and people loose their :burger::fries:
izza::cookie: (lunch for you old people like me, see what I learned from my grand kids!)
Blankenship like Phillips loved this city and university, both were sick they didn't win for this city and they will always have my respect and thanks for everything they did in all their years. Same with Kwanza, Shea and the countless football assistants we have had.
Why do Alabama, LSU, Ohio State (the REAL OSU - Pokes suck), Oklahoma, Baylor, Georgia, etc. get the 5* recruits? Because they compete for CHAMPIONSHIPS. Who gets who is based on money to hide cheating(another thread entirely) Some teams have dropped out of this group. Any PAC-12 team, Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas (Pigs suck), and..... Florida State.
Florida State is an example of how the administration killed a top 5 program (plenty of articles on this and I think Norvell made a huge mistake). Tulsa football last 10 years looks a lot like FSU football doesn't it? From championships to moral victories in a few short years.
I have more to say but there is enough above to chew on. Oh, one last thing. All these analytics mean crap. Winners defy the "numbers" a la Paul Smith. Numbers mean nothing, results do.
Go TU! 'merica! Fiscal Responsibility! Electoral College! Winning Matters! Other snowflake trigger words! #KeepYourPoliticsOfSportsBoards
izza::cookie: (lunch for you old people like me, see what I learned from my grand kids!)Blankenship like Phillips loved this city and university, both were sick they didn't win for this city and they will always have my respect and thanks for everything they did in all their years. Same with Kwanza, Shea and the countless football assistants we have had.
Why do Alabama, LSU, Ohio State (the REAL OSU - Pokes suck), Oklahoma, Baylor, Georgia, etc. get the 5* recruits? Because they compete for CHAMPIONSHIPS. Who gets who is based on money to hide cheating(another thread entirely) Some teams have dropped out of this group. Any PAC-12 team, Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Arkansas (Pigs suck), and..... Florida State.
Florida State is an example of how the administration killed a top 5 program (plenty of articles on this and I think Norvell made a huge mistake). Tulsa football last 10 years looks a lot like FSU football doesn't it? From championships to moral victories in a few short years.
I have more to say but there is enough above to chew on. Oh, one last thing. All these analytics mean crap. Winners defy the "numbers" a la Paul Smith. Numbers mean nothing, results do.
Go TU! 'merica! Fiscal Responsibility! Electoral College! Winning Matters! Other snowflake trigger words! #KeepYourPoliticsOfSportsBoards
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BB is the only coach in the modern era for TU that won a conference championship and finished the year ranked in a major poll. That’s some serious FU credibility. It’s the pinnacle of a distinguished career when you consider some of the names that have come through here and other great coaches too chicken to take the challenge early in their career when the chance was offered.
It’s somewhere between bad faith and insanity to say that we were Burns bad in 2014. There’s a lot of dumb on this board and I post some of it, but such a statement ranks up towards the highest in misinformed.
That said, he had some deficiencies that he was unable or unwilling to resolve. We all do as employees and leaders. What matters is how he handled them and some of them were handled in the worst possible way and it was his undoing. Foremost, offensive philosophy and the base offense to carry out that philosophy.
Nor was the cupboard bare. All of the core players in 2016 were BB recruits. To the extent we had deficiencies, it was mostly young guys the new staff pushed out onto the field, especially on defense. Or played players recruited for BB’s offense but forced into playing the veer gimmick we are in now. Which is totally different in terms of physical requirements.
What Monty is trying to do is not being done properly because of Monty. We’ve had players at every position on the field besides kicker go to the pros the last 20 years if you don’t count Redford Jones getting cut. You can succeed at Tulsa and you can recruit to Tulsa. If you don’t, it’s on you.
It’s somewhere between bad faith and insanity to say that we were Burns bad in 2014. There’s a lot of dumb on this board and I post some of it, but such a statement ranks up towards the highest in misinformed.
That said, he had some deficiencies that he was unable or unwilling to resolve. We all do as employees and leaders. What matters is how he handled them and some of them were handled in the worst possible way and it was his undoing. Foremost, offensive philosophy and the base offense to carry out that philosophy.
Nor was the cupboard bare. All of the core players in 2016 were BB recruits. To the extent we had deficiencies, it was mostly young guys the new staff pushed out onto the field, especially on defense. Or played players recruited for BB’s offense but forced into playing the veer gimmick we are in now. Which is totally different in terms of physical requirements.
What Monty is trying to do is not being done properly because of Monty. We’ve had players at every position on the field besides kicker go to the pros the last 20 years if you don’t count Redford Jones getting cut. You can succeed at Tulsa and you can recruit to Tulsa. If you don’t, it’s on you.
My apologies about Clay. Keyarris was on the team in 2011. He played in 6 games. Johnson didn’t play, but that fiasco happened on Bills watch and to me he in combination with Graham gets the blame for poor discipline on that issue. (Of course Johnson made the bad decision, but as a senior Johnson should have been coached not to jeaopordize his career like that)
Also, someone said I hate Bill. I absolutely do not. I really felt for the guy because of the turmoil his locker room had. I always appreciated how much he loved his alma mater. I like him as a man and an alumni. I don’t like him as a coach. I thought he ran his program poorly and his recruiting strategy was a failing one (mostly recruiting Oklahoma rather than Texas).
My point was Keyarris wasn’t left by TG. He was BB’s first recruiting class. Yes he played a bit as a true frosh.
I personally for some reason find Monty to be somewhat less annoying than BB but he's not a better coach. Monty is here still because of university factors having nothing to do with him or football success. To suggest that either is on the Burns level is insanity.
The fact that the 2016 guys were Blankenship’s doesn’t mean Bill would have done anything with them. He couldn’t do anything with Cody Green, Watts, Douglas, Roberson, etc in 2013. That offense was historically bad.
To my knowledge Garrett wasn’t recruited by BB. Though I could be wrong. He was part of Graham’s last recruiting cycle during the 2010-2011 season. Signed Jan 11
And I didn’t say he would. But its fallacy that he couldn’t evaluate talent and recruit. He could have done much better in Texas. He chose not to improve there and paid the price.
Incorrect. Sorta. He was ID’d by BB. He verballed to Todd, opened it back up, went on a couple of visits, including Pitt when TG left, then met with BB and Coach Peterson and re-committed his offer claiming he never de-committed.
My apologies. I wasn’t part of the board yet then... however. I would still say it was Graham’s “version” of the program that enticed him to Tulsa. That version lasted until GJ left.
I’m confused. BB signed him. So are you giving Trevis Gipson and McKinley Whitfield to BB since they had committed to him but signed with Monty? Can’t have it both ways
I was, and I do feel old... I was on the AZ board for years before it became this one.
Still Graham left BB a complete offense and a complete defense. BB left Monty an offense and only a couple developed defensive players.
Monty did exactly what BB said he would do with that team.
Monty got 1 more chance than BB and failed.
His decisions have cost us game after game after game.
We aren’t playing horseshoes nor hand grenades so close doesn’t cut it but, he now gets 2 more chances that an alum and former player did. That’s crap.
You’re the only one who thinks Monty hung the moon and that’s fine.
But, your logic and reasoning are horribly biased and flawed.
Since you insist on making comparisons rather than focus on Monty and his record; many of those offense and defense players you list for TG - BB was the lead recruiter! Now let’s focus the discussion on Monty and his last 3 years with his recruits!
What possessed him to publicly announce pay cuts for Monty & Haith?! I’m sure that really helped with recruiting. Gragg is obviously clueless with PR.
Guys, it doesn’t matter now what liberties were afforded to any previous coach. Who was allowed more time or less time or what was fair or not for previous staffs. Those people aren’t at TU right now and nothing we say is going to change that.
What everyone needs to realize is that while TU fans and donors were enjoying unparalleled success for a few years in the 2000s, every other school was accumulating resources. Coach West at Memphis said it best when he was fired approximately 10 years ago - “Invest in the program or get rid of it.” They’re where they are because they invested. UCF invested. SMU invested. Houston invested. Tulane invested. We’ve had ONE major improvement since 2008 - the locker room last year. Every other school has that and more. While everyone was sitting on their hands and enjoying the run up through 2012, other schools were setting themselves up for the future. Now we’re sitting here with the same stuff we had in 2008 and expecting a single coach to be the difference.
That’s idiotic. If you think that your boycott of one coach is going to be the thing that moves this program forward, you’re wrong. The thing that’s going to move this program forward is supplying these players and staff the same tools that every school we’re competing against have.
What everyone needs to realize is that while TU fans and donors were enjoying unparalleled success for a few years in the 2000s, every other school was accumulating resources. Coach West at Memphis said it best when he was fired approximately 10 years ago - “Invest in the program or get rid of it.” They’re where they are because they invested. UCF invested. SMU invested. Houston invested. Tulane invested. We’ve had ONE major improvement since 2008 - the locker room last year. Every other school has that and more. While everyone was sitting on their hands and enjoying the run up through 2012, other schools were setting themselves up for the future. Now we’re sitting here with the same stuff we had in 2008 and expecting a single coach to be the difference.
That’s idiotic. If you think that your boycott of one coach is going to be the thing that moves this program forward, you’re wrong. The thing that’s going to move this program forward is supplying these players and staff the same tools that every school we’re competing against have.
Who could have done anything with Cody Green? The only way you could have done anything with Green was to change his position.
I love ❤ how aston argues w/ bb's son about who recruited who and who played for whom. What happened to that emoji of guyrunningintobrickwall. It's like when you get backed into a corner you always digyourowngrave. Where are those damn emojis.
I'm not sure he's clueless as much as he has different goals than we do. What looks clueless often makes sense if you think about what the real goal was. They were getting ready to push through True Commitment, showing that athletics was getting bent over as well as academics was important. And if you happen to be opposed to athletics as some in power do, then Gilligan gets a little extra job security by showing that he'll toe the party line no matter what and not push for his department and coaches. It's like the accounting professor (I think) who's in charge of liberal arts now because he showed he'd back the admin no matter what. Doing what you're told is key to success at TU now.
There is nothing new to say (which is unfortunate for a message board).
Montgomery deserved to be fired plain and simple. Other perceived constraints stopped it from happening. All else is a glossy coat painted over a crappy carpentry job.
All that said I hope we go out and win a conference championship next year. I always do. I just hope it is not a 6-6 year which might give the administration another excuse to make the same decision.
Montgomery deserved to be fired plain and simple. Other perceived constraints stopped it from happening. All else is a glossy coat painted over a crappy carpentry job.
All that said I hope we go out and win a conference championship next year. I always do. I just hope it is not a 6-6 year which might give the administration another excuse to make the same decision.
Aston is a special kind of dumb. Not only are his politics bad, his love of Monty is nauseating. Hey aston, alabama went undefeated this year. The refs gave Auburn free points and cheap game ending penalties, and the kicker should have tied the game! And they almost beat lsu! They're undefeated aston!
Can’t disagree with any of this. We’ve had the worst or second worst facilities in the conference since we joined. There are so many things opposing coaches can use against us in recruiting that it would be dumb to think it’s not a major factor in losing out to some peers on some good players. Incarnate Word we have beat though.
BB had too much love and respect for the tradition at Incarnate Word to go after their players.
Good thing he is averaging about 600k a win the last three years.
Again Monty is the issue not anything else. He has been weighed and measured and he is found lacking.
For those of you saying ho hum, we better just go along with it because we can't change it now. That's the problem. Not enough people who won't just fall in line.
For those of you who are saying we aren't as bad as Burns, just wait till next year. I watched the die hards all roughly 5k of them left in the stadium boo our coach at the Houston game and then leave. Houston fans outnumbered Tulsa fans the last two minutes of the game and they didn't even bring anyone.
I gotcha. At the end of the day you still are paid well and have to produce results. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.”
From an overall program standpoint, Monty has been a downgrade from BB. He will never get the stink off him from being associated with Art Briles. His micromanaging control freak image doesn’t make it easy for a coaching staff. From the beginning of his tenure he should have turned over the offense to someone capable of running a decent offense rather than the one we’re presently attempting to run.
And now through the ineptitude of Gragg, Clancy and others we’re stuck with him another year. This was a critical error. This acceptance of the status quo is a symptom of the larger problem of the university not investing in this program for the future. There are too many other distractions right now, with the current administration attempting to destroy the academic side of things.
And now through the ineptitude of Gragg, Clancy and others we’re stuck with him another year. This was a critical error. This acceptance of the status quo is a symptom of the larger problem of the university not investing in this program for the future. There are too many other distractions right now, with the current administration attempting to destroy the academic side of things.
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Just to add to Huffy's explanation, Keyarris actually reopened his recruiting process on two different occasions, ultimately re-committing to Tulsa both times. He originally committed in April of 2010, but then reconsidered because he felt he rushed the decision. Key re-committed in June of 2010, which stuck until the coaching change. He had Texas Tech, Purdue and of course Pitt after him. Took a visit to Pitt, then had a home visit with Coach Blankenship and re-committed once again to Tulsa. Then he took his official to TU and signed the next week.
Here's an excerpt from my 1-26-2011 article on the situation:
6-foot-4 and 185-pound playmaker Keyarris Garrett initially committed to Tulsa in April of 2010. He reopened his recruiting process twice, only to firm up his commitment with the Golden Hurricane both times. The nation's 88th-ranked wide receiver is solid with TU.
"Yes, I'm a Golden Hurricane," he said. "I told Coach (Bill) Blankenship tonight when he came over. I never really decommitted. I had just reopened things back up."
When former Tulsa coach Todd Graham left for Pitt, he contacted Garrett to gauge his interest in the Panthers. Garrett made a visit to Pitt last weekend, but wasn't overwhelmed.
"It was okay," he said earlier this week.
Garrett is scheduled to make an official visit to Tulsa this weekend. He was going to leave things open until then, but after visiting with Coach Blankenship on Wednesday, Garrett decided to firm things up with the Hurricane.
"Nothing has changed for me," he said in relation to Tulsa. "They have a plan for me to be successful in football and class work."
Not all, there are some things that will not be acceptable winning or not.
But it will cure almost anything that ails ya.
