and Houston doesn’t care about granting real degrees - what’s your point?
Monty staying.
- Thread starter jerandlaur
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and Houston doesn’t care about granting real degrees - what’s your point?
Well that's not going to happen - there's one good way to be sure - because being a top tier school isn't even a goal anymore! True Commitment has officially ended any TU aspirations to be a top school. The goal is to be a good technical school for people who want a job better than bagging groceries when they're 25. With a focus on students who otherwise wouldn't have access to education. And a few "flagship" programs that are still technical but might stand on their tippie toes to reach the top 50. That's success as True Commitment defines it. Not being a top school. Think NEOSU but more expensive and country clubby. We bitch about people aying football should drop to DII, but True Commitment is the academic version of dropping to DII. The school has officially gone DII, except sports.
Gragg is such a doofus , how do you say missing a bowl 3 years is unnacceptable and then say we feel he is the guy to get us back to championship football
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Hard to compare the two situations. Rader was at TU for 12 seasons...8 of those as independent and 4 in the WAC. Rader only had one winning season, the 10-2 Freedom Bowl year in 1991. He also had the 6-6 team in 1989 that went to the Independence Bowl. Rader was a good coach, but the University made academic changes that really hurt his staff's ability to get the same talent they had been getting.
Then TU hired Burns, and we all know what happened then.
The administration has been the problem since 1989... Faculty No Confidence Vote - https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_5d5842ec-0335-504f-aaad-ef557e84363e.html
It also increases spending for student support services, although some faculty say they suspect that the money is actually going for unnecessary or overpriced administration.
According to one study, TU’s administrative costs are among the highest in the country for a school of its size and mission. TU’s administration says those figures are misleading.
It also increases spending for student support services, although some faculty say they suspect that the money is actually going for unnecessary or overpriced administration.
According to one study, TU’s administrative costs are among the highest in the country for a school of its size and mission. TU’s administration says those figures are misleading.
Would you expect anything else from the over administrated administrators.
Senior administration salaries are disclosed under federal law on irs tax form 990. This information is available to the public from pro publica via their website. Some of it is linked over on the general board. I invite you to look at the President and Vice President compensation for TU and compare it to peer schools in the AAC and you’ll find it at the bottom, even after adjusting for cost of living and median price of a four bedroom home. Then take a look at the Creightons, Drakes, Marquettes etc. Youll be looking awhile before you find any school even remotely comparable to TU with administrative salaries markedly lower than TU. SMU pays their VP of Business almost 50% more than Buck iirc. It’s been awhile since I spent a few hours looking into this bogus claim.
Now, it may be that nationally salaries are absurdly high for some of those functions and TU is closer to reality. And it may be that faculty consider themselves underpaid at TU so admin salaries seem high. Which is probable given the ego of your average full professor. But objectively, TU is below market.
Indeed, some would suggest TU’s unwillingness to pay the going rate is the source of the problems. Just like buying local and getting BB at a cut rate, we have drawn from local talent and may not be getting the traction we need and are underskilled so we buy into things consultants sell like True Commitment that are misguided.
I reject that logic.
But I do find it ironic that the people on campus pushing for a leadership change and a national search for a liberal arts academic to take over are essentially clueless or intellectually dishonest because they must know, or should know, that any replacement of President Clancy or Provost Leavit or Buck or some of the others would come at a dramatic increase in salary that they say is too much. Yet they think it’s OK to continue offering Portuguese to one student every four or five years. Because we are known for our outstanding Portuguese liberal arts program.
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Not backing the validity of the "study", just bringing the vote into the conversation.
Back in the day, when I walked the halls of the engineering building, there was one Geology student in the program. They had to keep the program alive to be accredited for the PE degree. So one program paid for the staff of the other. That happens and I understand it.
If TU isn't paying for the best possible administrators and staff then it deserves the situation it is in now. If it is paying for the best administrators and staff it can then things are really bad. In that case, I am okay with cutting liberal arts programs that serve no practical purpose in the world in favor of programs that get someone a job paying enough to support themselves.
But at this point, is it too late? With OSU offering more and more in Tulsa and TCC a solid low-cost alternative to the first two years with more flexible schedules where is Tulsa going to make their money? I remember enrollment going up in the years TU was competing on the national level in basketball, so maybe they should invest in sports that draw people into the undergrad classes? That's why I went to TU. After the NIT championship, my 12-year-old self was going to TU.
I never had a choice. Nolan Richardson’s quiet dignity dealing with the horrible racist treatment he received at the hands of many in Tulsa and his ability to unite the City despite that convinced my father I wasn’t going anywhere else. Between soccer and being waitlisted at Stanford, the only other school that offered my degree choice at the time, the answer was obvious.
Shea Seals and the first sweet sixteen made me look into the school. This little school that banged with the big boys. That elite eight team personified it. Kragthorpe's resurgence in football proved that we could do it eleven on eleven.
Times may change but the university being successful has not, it goes back over a century and I will be damned if I won't expect it through this one. That's in academics, athletics, or tiddlywinks.
Times may change but the university being successful has not, it goes back over a century and I will be damned if I won't expect it through this one. That's in academics, athletics, or tiddlywinks.
This thread is taking a turn but 82 was a big deal too. I remember trying to locate reasonably priced tix to the big Houston game at ORU. Night Train Lane was a regular sub at Memorial and my soccer teammates and I thought he might be a source of cheap tix. But he laughed at us - wanted to scalp us!
In the end we hung around the Mabee Center and got reasonably priced tix after tipoff. Such a disappointing outcome. But fun times.
In the end we hung around the Mabee Center and got reasonably priced tix after tipoff. Such a disappointing outcome. But fun times.
2016, the last full year for Stead as President and 2018 long for isn't available, shoes Stead getting a little over $1,000,000 per year as the President at TU. Buck was getting about $380,000. At SMU Ford was getting $980,000 and Their VP of Business was getting $470,000 which is not 50% more than Buck.
Of course you really can't use that as a comparison given that TU has an enrollment of 4,000 and SMU is around 11,500. We pay our administrators just fine.
2015 Stead got $1.2 and Buck got $336,000
2014 - Stead got $800,000 with a $200,000 bonus but Buck got $490,000.
I get confused easily, but can this be the real Dick "Night Train" Lane who was a famous RB for the Detroit Lions way, way back in the day? I doubt it, but it brought back memories from the old NFL & the Black and Blue Division including Da Bears, Packers, Vikings & Lions.
But you are seizing on the problem and proving my point. Just like coaches, it’s the competition in the market driving the salaries not TU’s enrollment or ability to pay. TU is viewed as a comparable position to SMU and the salary demands are therefore similar. TU underpays Buck.
Indeed much like football, the location, low salaries and financial struggles have TU in a position to be a third tier choice amongst its peers with this wave of administrators retires or moves on.
Name a multimillion dollar business enterprise that manages a two billion dollars in assets and pays their CFO that after 25 years. You think you are winning but trust me, Ive spent years researching, reading, and asking questions about what’s going on there. I’ve gone down every avenue I can to try and prove to myself these people have no idea what they are doing, or at least in over their head, just as Montgomery is either incompetent or in over his head. At the end of every rabbit hole, facts tell me otherwise,
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Lawrence Night Train Lane was a local PA announcer, teacher, referee and radio personality. I believe that he announced BT Washington football games for almost 50 years.
I knew Mr Lane as a substitute science teacher when I was in jr high.
Encountering the "perfect storm" can be disappointing but do not forget that our schedule was third toughest in the nation last year and AAC placed three teams in the tip 25. Despite that, we played almost every game very close and, with a better kicker, should have won 2-3 more games.
I look forward to a much improved year next year.
Here is the overall record for Monty by year, below each year is the record in games decided by seven points or less:
2015 record: 6-7 win%: .461
1-1 win%: .500
2016 record: 10-3 win%: .769
3-2 win%: .600
2017 record: 2-10 win%: .166
0-5 win%: .000
2018 record: 3-9 win%: .250
1-3 win%: .250
2019 record: 4-8 win%: .333
2-2 win%: .500
Total
Overall: 25-37 win%: .403
Games within seven points: 7-13 win%: .350
Nothing will change. Monty is the problem, not the schedule, or the talent, or that he doesn't have a QB or an OC. The problem is the HC. It is his awful game situation management, it will only continue.
what we have is not working so there needs to be changes.
since no change at the top, changes with the assistants? add an OC play caller?
since no change at the top, changes with the assistants? add an OC play caller?
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Mr. Lane was awesome...I had him as a sub a few times in 7th grade at Union.
He would tell us - Boys, you have to call me Mr Lane at school. Call in to my Friday night radio show sometime and you can can call me Night Train.
That is Nolan's legacy, united the city under one team that lasted for over 20 years. Enrollment and attendance in all sports went up. Proves the point that investment in sports IS an investment in the university as a whole including academics.
TU is not a peer to SMU to anyone but people on this board. Enrollment does matter. It matters a lot. Buck is not underpaid as his pay fluctuates very year and four years ago he made significantly more than contemporaries and we have no idea what he made in 2018 or 2019.
Our peers are now four year tech schools with declining academic prestige.
But you bring up Creighton. Obviously their President doesn’t receive a salary and neither does their finance VP but their Sr. VP got $369,000 in 2017, about what Buck got.
Drake in 2017 - President $420,000
CFO - $153,000
Enrollment over 5,000
Marquette - 2017 President $818,000
Treasurer - $421,000
Enrollment 12,000
Rice - 2017 President $1,240,000
VP for Finance - $391,000
Nope, Buck seems to fit right in the range and you seem to be talking out of your ass.
So he’s actually right about 500 in close games if you take out the outlier 17 season. I’d love to see what turnover luck looked like in all of those games. Also for a fun reference point, Nick Saban went 0-2 in games decided by 7 points or less. Finally, I’m not sure why people keep posting stats that show continued improvement since 2017. It’s almost like you want to disprove your point that things are headed in the “wrong direction.” And just for fun he’s 4-1 in overtime.
So what’s your point? You said he is overpaid. Then cite statistics that prove he’s paid the same as schools you think we should be equal to, but claim we no longer are. That makes no sense.
Often folks have to change jobs to make up a gap in pay. Perhaps Buck does not want to rock the boat or leave town.
Nothing like proving there are lies, damn lies, and then statistics. Why 2017? Why not drop 2016 then he is 4-11. With out Blankenship's recruits he is 3-10 in one touchdown games which is a pretty accurate reflection of his yearly average record with his own recruits (3-9).
One year he has been over .500 in games decided by 7 points or less. Every year the games we lost by 7 points would have qualified us for a bowl. We have a losing record in 5/6 years he has been the coach. That isn't improvement its status quo.
Saban's team scored over 50 points in 8 games this year, or more than Monty has in his entire HC career, and something Monty's team hasn't done since 2017.
Just for fun, here's the trend line for win%. The orange is Blankenship. Not a lot of difference there
And 7 point games
And 7 point games
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I think we are making use of our high price TU degrees on this board! If it's on a chart it must be true!:smiley:
Only one thing matters, Championships. Being competitive is what losers say when they lose. TU needs to be in the conference title game every three years for me to consider the coaching staff and administration to be "good". If you don't set the bar high you won't accomplish much, if anything. Revolving coaches means we are where we should be if they are moving up. Tulsa is a next step, not a destination job.
And tear down those apartments and put in a parking garage! Us blue hairs can't walk that far anymore.
Only one thing matters, Championships. Being competitive is what losers say when they lose. TU needs to be in the conference title game every three years for me to consider the coaching staff and administration to be "good". If you don't set the bar high you won't accomplish much, if anything. Revolving coaches means we are where we should be if they are moving up. Tulsa is a next step, not a destination job.
And tear down those apartments and put in a parking garage! Us blue hairs can't walk that far anymore.
