Nice article about one of our best all time performances.
I see Haisten Found my Video of UNC-TU @ Mabee Center
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Probably his best game as a 'Cane....Our golfing fore some had eight tickets, butBruce Vanley
we didn't get to go, as our eldest member's daughter was getting married in Stroud
(or Bristow-I forget) that evening....during the ceremony, we kept trying to get a
score, but didn't have any luck until the reception...
This is the first time I have seen any extended footage of the game....Great memories..
Buzz, Jordan, Ricky, Harris, Perkins....My goodnes!
Without a true point (Smith was one but didn't play much) that '82 team beat some
really good teams....They were turn over prone, but everyone on the team could
shoot and rebound....Without getting as much credit as the '80 and '81 teams, on a
given night they could absolutely play!
I stand by it. Jordan acts like his "desire" to win is so above anyone else who's ever walked the earth. That's bull butter.
I'm not sure about his "desire" really being greater.... but his athletic ability combined with his desire sure was greater than anyone else. The fact is that he played a shortened career in terms of time spent in college + injured in the early 80's + retired the first time + retired the second time and he still has more titles than any of the greatest players since. He didn't jump ship to win somewhere else when he couldn't get by the Celtics / Pistons either. He just got better. Add that to the fact that he was rumored to be one of the biggest trash talkers in the world and a notoriously competitive, abrasiveness teammate and it's even more impressive.
Other guys that might be in the conversation: Bill Russell + Kareem and that's it.
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Jim "Loscy" Loscutoff Fearless enforcer. Jersey hangs in rafters with no number but only LOSCY in diagonal letters. Most of you probably never heard of him.
you don’t have to be an abrasive teammate to win titles. That’s the problem with Jordan. How is being a butthole somehow impressive?
And by the way, no one jumped ship to win titles back then because you had to answer to your family and teammates.
I would like jordan to say that to Bill Russell. After all Russell only had 2 NCAA championships, 1 Olympic gold Medal when the team was comprised of college player, and 11 NBA Championships. jordans numbers don't compare.
He’s a colossal failure as a person. World famous for inviting business partners and acquaintances to dinner who never played sports, running up the tab past $1,000, then leaving abruptly without paying, offering to pay or making plans for a second meal that he would cover.
Long history of totally unacceptable verbal pouts and screaming matches with all types of people just doing their jobs.
He’s doing the world a favor by being so famous he’s a hermit. If he was out more, he’d probably have a record for that behavior. He can talk to BJ Armstrong that way when they are making millions and signed up for it. Talk that way to a seventy year old toll booth operator slow to make change and you are a garbage person.
I represented a member of the Pacers early in my career. Social and charitable ties with him after the representation ended put me in the room or on the golf cart several times with Jordan and Charles Barkley. Barkley was just as bad, but at least he was funny. This was 2003-2005 when they were both still gods and not aging jocks. I wanted nothing to do with them and my client couldn’t figure out why. He was like a wide eyed 8th grader around them. I’ve been around my fair share of pro athletes. No desire at all to have a cup of coffee with Jordan. He’s going to die a very unhappy person.
Long history of totally unacceptable verbal pouts and screaming matches with all types of people just doing their jobs.
He’s doing the world a favor by being so famous he’s a hermit. If he was out more, he’d probably have a record for that behavior. He can talk to BJ Armstrong that way when they are making millions and signed up for it. Talk that way to a seventy year old toll booth operator slow to make change and you are a garbage person.
I represented a member of the Pacers early in my career. Social and charitable ties with him after the representation ended put me in the room or on the golf cart several times with Jordan and Charles Barkley. Barkley was just as bad, but at least he was funny. This was 2003-2005 when they were both still gods and not aging jocks. I wanted nothing to do with them and my client couldn’t figure out why. He was like a wide eyed 8th grader around them. I’ve been around my fair share of pro athletes. No desire at all to have a cup of coffee with Jordan. He’s going to die a very unhappy person.
What most people don’t realize is that Jordan’s two years in baseball were Stern’s under the table suspension. Maybe he shouldn’t gamble with the Mob.
Not true. Look at Drexler, Barkley, Dennis Johnson, Moses Malone, and later Shaq.
Speculation. Listen to Simmons talk about that conspiracy theory, he believes most conspiracy theories and he doesn’t believe that one.
You’re also talking about a period of time where besides Russell, Chamberlain (and maybe Havlicek + West) was the only exceptional athlete. You didn’t have the same depth of talent playing in the 60’s. If you moved some of the 60’s best players to the 80’s / 90’s they would have been embarrassed by guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Wilkins, Magic, Bird, etc....
You’re not wrong, but I’ve watched because I grew up watching that team and there’s nothing else on. The best parts are when Jordan’s off the screen and someone like Horace Grant goes off script and calls the Pistons “straight up bitches”.
I think David J Roth put it best when he said “the most compelling part of Jordan’s interview segments is watching the wildly fluctuating level of amber liquor in the cut-glass tumbler that sits at his right hand.“
So Maurice Stokes, Elgin Baylor, and Oscar Robertson would have all been an embarrassment. These are some I just came up with off the top of my head... Also Willis Reed and Hal Greer...
Yes, I will take Shaq, Hakeem, David Robinson, Malone, Parish, Mchale, Ewing etc... over guys like Willis Reed.
Only 3 guys from the 60's era are on the all time top 25 scoring list: Chamberlain, Robertson, and Havlicek. I'd take Bird over a guy like Havlicek. Robertson vs. Magic both in their primes would be a real debate.
Yeah. Guys like Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, Alex English and Ewing were all huge 3 point shooters lol. They have fewer than 200 between them.
To be clear, if you take 581 points off of Jordan's points total (assuming all his 3 pointers were counted as 2's instead of 3's) He would be in the same place in the record books.
Honestly, I feel like a good number of modern college teams would destroy the 60's Celtics. (With or without the 3 point line)
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"I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes." - Roger Murdoch
now I will take Kareem over Jordan when it comes to acting any day.
dude, DJ and Moses? You weren’t even born yet. They might’ve forced a trade in 1981ish but those two particular owners had alot more to do with that.
Drexler, Barkley, and Shaq. Totally different era. And absolutely ring-chasing.
So take your Not True crap somewhere else.
Maybe more a lack of depth of training, and not playing 12 months out of the year....Except for the
inner city outdoor courts in LA, Chicago, NYC and and the DC area (and surrounds) and maybe
Detroit, basketball for youngsters was a 7 month a year sport.....Colleges (and certainly) TU didn't
have their players in all summer....I remember Roger Wendel, who had been a sharp shooter as a
Jr., was off to a slow start as a senior at TU....
When he started off as a Sr., he was clanking backboards....When interviewed by Len Morton,
(or whoever), he said "after all I didn't pickup a basketball for about 4 months"....That wasn't as
unusual as it sounds.....High Schoolers had a pickup game here and there in the summer, but
very limited organized activities, if any....
Different world....That's why Williams and Shumate have a chance to contribute as true frosts...
Bruce Vanley
If I remember correctly after the game Dean Smith was interviewed and pronounced his name as Bruce "Banley" didn't even know the young mans correct name. He had a good game against the mighty Tar Heels.
GO TU!!!!
How in the world can you say this? Aside from 6 0r 7 Hall of Famers during this era, don't you think the Celts could shoot it? See Sam Jones, Bob Cousy & Tom(Gunner) Heinsohn. Or play defense-see Satch Sanders-a lock down defender, KC Jones the same, and also, perhaps the greatest shot blocker of all time...Mr. Russell. The only reason he isn't recognized as such is simply because they didn't keep that stat back then.
And, yes, II..........(Jungle) Jim Loscutoff has several of those rings from the '60's.
Ok. You can have those 60's Celtics. I'll take the 1988-91 UNLV Runnin Rebels. The 82-83 Phi Slamma Jamma. The 05-07 back to back champs in Florida (Noah + Brewer + Horford). The 07-08 Memphis team with a hyper athlete in Derrick Rose.
There are certainly teams that have come since the 60's both amateur and professional that could giver real problems to the Celtics. Both Russell and Chamberlain liked to play the... "I'm going to stand right in front of the basket and you're going to have to go by me" defense. Some of those teams I mentioned wouldn't have much of a problem with that. They would probably end up going THROUGH a guy like Russell on their way to a slashing dunk or they would take his strength out of the game with the fast break. He's not going to have 20+ rebounds when the teams aren't shooting a bunch of off balance layups and bricking tons of long two's. Add that to the fact that dribbling advanced so much within just a few years of the Celtic's last 60's dynasty championship. Half of the guards in the league could barely dribble while keeping their eyes up. Rewatching Celtics, Warriors, and Chamberlain (Sixers / Lakers) games from the era, I really came away with the fact that the centers were pretty much statues. Even Russell who gets a lot of pub for being able to move up and down the court for the era wasn't great at it.
Most importantly none of those 60’s teams ever guarded a pick and roll. Wilt and Russell wouldn’t just get to stand in the paint the entire game.
Comparing the athletes without comparing the changes in the game is a bit of a pointless exercise.
With modern rules and ref policies, none of these people, including Michael Jordan in his prime, could compete with today’s athletes. Jordan didn’t lift weights until his fifth season in the league and didn’t really show the effects of that until the start of his seventh season when they started winning championships. It wasn’t just that he could jump, it was his strength as well. He might have the quickness to get off some shots, but even Jordan would have trouble with the strength and power necessary to score close to the basket and help teammates in the current game. There’s just too much focus on performance enhancement, diet, sleep, weights, mental, yoga, all of it. Lebron would eat him alive. And he knows it. The one exception to that statement was Rodman, who multiple witnesses have said over the years had freakish strength and quickness. (Multiple people claiming he leaned over a railing in a night club and picked up a 200 lbs man below him with one hand by palming his skull to keep him from hassling a woman, guarding Shaq one on one despite giving away 5 inches and 100lbs or more, lifting cars off the ground, etc).
Same with the old boys mentioned above. Great players in their day and in their game. But it’s a different day and a different game.
Conversely, players like Shaq and Allen Iverson would struggle in the old game where charging was called more regularly, elbows and physicality was not tolerated as much, and their lack of free throw shooting and consistent jumper outside 8 feet would frequently cost their teams the game so they may not have even seen a roster.
Apples and Oranges.
With modern rules and ref policies, none of these people, including Michael Jordan in his prime, could compete with today’s athletes. Jordan didn’t lift weights until his fifth season in the league and didn’t really show the effects of that until the start of his seventh season when they started winning championships. It wasn’t just that he could jump, it was his strength as well. He might have the quickness to get off some shots, but even Jordan would have trouble with the strength and power necessary to score close to the basket and help teammates in the current game. There’s just too much focus on performance enhancement, diet, sleep, weights, mental, yoga, all of it. Lebron would eat him alive. And he knows it. The one exception to that statement was Rodman, who multiple witnesses have said over the years had freakish strength and quickness. (Multiple people claiming he leaned over a railing in a night club and picked up a 200 lbs man below him with one hand by palming his skull to keep him from hassling a woman, guarding Shaq one on one despite giving away 5 inches and 100lbs or more, lifting cars off the ground, etc).
Same with the old boys mentioned above. Great players in their day and in their game. But it’s a different day and a different game.
Conversely, players like Shaq and Allen Iverson would struggle in the old game where charging was called more regularly, elbows and physicality was not tolerated as much, and their lack of free throw shooting and consistent jumper outside 8 feet would frequently cost their teams the game so they may not have even seen a roster.
Apples and Oranges.
Agree. Can't really compare. I used to love watching the NBA game of the week with mostly the Celtics in the 60's and their full court press and Red's cigar, but now he wouldn't even be allowed to light up.
I just think prime Jordan could have basically played (and succeeded) in whatever era he was stuck into without too much time needed to adapt, and going backwards would always be easier than going forwards. Jordan would have to learn how to really shoot the three to survive in today's game... but that's something I could see him doing. I couldn't see Wilt thriving today like he did all those years ago. There's no place in the league for an immobile big man who can't shoot free throws anymore. At least Shaq could run the floor for most of his prime.
I wasn’t allowed to watch the NBA growing up. My dad played basketball at the collegiate level and was adamant that it was fixed and said so with the unspoken tone that he had personal knowledge.
But if I had to choose an era, it would be the late 70’s - early 80’s when regional TV wouldnt carry some games and you never really knew if four or five teams a year might fold. Kansas City - Omaha Kings. The Cotton Fitzsimmons - Otis Birdsong era. That seedy NBA we barely remember where some players were paid in cash from that night’s ticket sales and cigarettes and coke were openly used at halftime.
There is always room for a guy like Wilt. He would start on almost all the teams today. Who wouldn't want a guy that could night in and night out grab 15-20 rebounds and score 20+ points on anybody and aside from Russell foul most of them out by the 3rd period. I just don't see anyone in the league that is big enough, strong enough, and quick enough to stop Wilt.
One thing’s for sure nobody could stop his *ah-hum* “appetite” shall we say ... Conan did stop him though.
He wasn’t dubbed the world’s best athlete just for basketball, volleyball and boxing. The dude sure had the endurance. Lol
So, he would essentially be Andre Drummond. He wouldn't be HOF caliber anymore. Maybe.. he puts up a few more points... but I still don't see him being on a modern championship caliber team. Best case scenario he's Dwight Howard, but even Howard has been game planned out of relevance as he's gotten older. He'd effectively be the 3rd or 4th best guy on his team.
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