Youth soccer club

[lawpoke87]

Interesting development as MLS Next announced an alliance with the Girls Academy to "enhance player development..." Wonder what ECNL thinks about this.

MLS Next and ECNL have been at odds for sometime now. ECNL has been very aggressive in pursuing and signing GA clubs. Lone star out of Austin being the latest. The objective appears to be to run GA out of business as a competitive platform. It’s working to some extent. MLS Next is taking similar actions with ECNL on the boys side. I know they have plans to expand MLS Next2 clubs/teams.

On the girls side, I doubt ECNL is very concerned. They are in a dominate position. I view the boys side as a bit different. Curious to see how MLS Next2 competes with ECNL. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an MLS Next2 team in Oklahoma in the next year or two. It’s coming imo.

 

[lawpoke87]

I’m sure most of you are aware but the TSC / Barry lawsuit has been settled.

 

[TU_BLA]

I’m sure most of you are aware but the TSC / Barry lawsuit has been settled.

Hadn't heard. Would be interested in hearing what the settlement details are.

 

[lawpoke87]

Hadn't heard. Would be interested in hearing what the settlement details are.

Barry allegedly paid $240k. $217,500 was owed at time lawsuit was filed. Don’t have any other details yet

 

[TU_BLA]

Barry allegedly paid $240k. $217,500 was owed at time lawsuit was filed. Don’t have any other details yet

Probably realized he was going to lose and prolonging it would just mean he'd pay more lawyer fees. Probably settled for amount owed plus some of the other side's legal fees.

Mark will be happy this is done with.

 

[tudirk]

Barry allegedly paid $240k. $217,500 was owed at time lawsuit was filed. Don’t have any other details yet

I heard $180k that included the Mac's portion. Definitely wasn't a summary judgement. Doubt anyone will actually know the truth. Attorney's made some $$$$

 

[lawpoke87]

Probably realized he was going to lose and prolonging it would just mean he'd pay more lawyer fees. Probably settled for amount owed plus some of the other side's legal fees.

Mark will be happy this is done with.

I figured it was likely interest. I think everyone will be happy this is over Especially those who guaranteed his debt and got drug into this mess.

 

[lawpoke87]

I heard $180k that included the Mac's portion. Definitely wasn't a summary judgement. Doubt anyone will actually know the truth. Attorney's made some $$$.

Attorneys (as usual) were the only winners.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

MLS Next and ECNL have been at odds for sometime now. ECNL has been very aggressive in pursuing and signing GA clubs. Lone star out of Austin being the latest. The objective appears to be to run GA out of business as a competitive platform. It’s working to some extent. MLS Next is taking similar actions with ECNL on the boys side. I know they have plans to expand MLS Next2 clubs/teams.

On the girls side, I doubt ECNL is very concerned. They are in a dominate position. I view the boys side as a bit different. Curious to see how MLS Next2 competes with ECNL. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an MLS Next2 team in Oklahoma in the next year or two. It’s coming imo.

Lately, I've been tuning into the ECNL podcasts, where the hosts present strong opinions on college, professional, and youth soccer. Listening to them raises questions about their experience and understanding of youth development history. They continuously advocate for a school-aged approach over a birth-year model, as if everything was ideal back then and none of the issues they highlight existed. It almost feels like they stepped into a thriving league without acknowledging its evolution.

In my high school days, there were attempts to create national leagues like the Super Y, but those initiatives never gained momentum. Today, leagues like ECNL, MLS Next, GA, EA, NPL, and others are relatively new developments. While they have certainly enhanced competitiveness at the higher levels, this shift has also led to increased costs for families.

In Tulsa, the higher-end competition is becoming diluted because some individuals misrepresent their children's skills and the prestige of their clubs, their coaching abilities at the top end and the potential to parents.

It’s remarkable how OEFC has managed to maintain its size in OKC, especially in light of the current situation here. I’m uncertain whether this is due to effective leadership at the top or a lack of competition. With 12 boys' teams and seven girls' teams in the 2014 age group, their numbers rival those in Dallas. While the lower-tier teams may not be particularly strong, their presence is a crucial support for funding the upper-tier teams.

 

[lawpoke87]

Lately, I've been tuning into the ECNL podcasts, where the hosts present strong opinions on college, professional, and youth soccer. Listening to them raises questions about their experience and understanding of youth development history. They continuously advocate for a school-aged approach over a birth-year model, as if everything was ideal back then and none of the issues they highlight existed. It almost feels like they stepped into a thriving league without acknowledging its evolution.

In my high school days, there were attempts to create national leagues like the Super Y, but those initiatives never gained momentum. Today, leagues like ECNL, MLS Next, GA, EA, NPL, and others are relatively new developments. While they have certainly enhanced competitiveness at the higher levels, this shift has also led to increased costs for families.

In Tulsa, the higher-end competition is becoming diluted because some individuals misrepresent their children's skills and the prestige of their clubs, their coaching abilities at the top end and the potential to parents.

It’s remarkable how OEFC has managed to maintain its size in OKC, especially in light of the current situation here. I’m uncertain whether this is due to effective leadership at the top or a lack of competition. With 12 boys' teams and seven girls' teams in the 2014 age group, their numbers rival those in Dallas. While the lower-tier teams may not be particularly strong, their presence is a crucial support for funding the upper-tier teams.

Just my opinion but the school class approach is done primarily to assist colleges in recruiting. They can come to one game and everyone on the field will be one class (Sophomores or Juniors for example). I would argue the class approach doesn’t really matter until the player’s freshmen year.

OEFC has strengthened its position as the top Oklahoma club over the past few years imo. One only has to compare the current ECNL league standings for OEFC and TSC to see the vast difference in quality of teams (girls side). The exodus of players from TSC to OEFC has only widened the gap. There are a multitude of reasons imo for the current difference in clubs but quality of coaching as well as player and coach retention (especially on the girls side) is a significant factor. The 2011 ECNL girls at TSC have lost 7 players in the last six months. A Tulsa club cannot sustain those kind of losses. New leadership at TSC is much needed. Hopefully that occurs sooner rather than later.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Just my opinion but the school class approach is done primarily to assist colleges in recruiting. They can come to one game and everyone on the field will be one class (Sophomores or Juniors for example). I would argue the class approach doesn’t really matter until the player’s freshmen year.

OEFC has strengthened its position as the top Oklahoma club over the past few years imo. One only has to compare the current ECNL league standings for OEFC and TSC to see the vast difference in quality of teams (girls side). The exodus of players from TSC to OEFC has only widened the gap. There are a multitude of reasons imo for the current difference in clubs but quality of coaching as well as player and coach retention (especially on the girls side) is a significant factor. The 2011 ECNL girls at TSC have lost 7 players in the last six months. A Tulsa club cannot sustain those kind of losses. New leadership at TSC is much needed. Hopefully that occurs sooner rather than later.

Having an extra 500k people in your market also helps. That said...Tulsa gets people from Arkansas a lot.

Stability helps. On the girl's side, I am guessing that lots of talent has spread out in Tulsa. Some are going down to OKC, and others have gone sides with RL groups or, as we know from this board, even Dallas. Many parents probably think they are super cool now that they are doing well in the RL groups. So many of them probably have little to zero idea how big of a chasm between NL and RL teams.


As a true-blood Tulsan, it disgusts me that so many people are going down to OKC. I hope it disgusts people, too. It is so insulting to this city people are going down there to play. I refuse to believe Jimmy Hampton's legacy is beyond Tulsa.

Do you think cyp needs to be exited? What is his issue? I had a close friend's daughter who is very good to leave to go to OKC. She is an excellent player and the mom cited him.

 

[lawpoke87]

Having an extra 500k people in your market also helps. That said...Tulsa gets people from Arkansas a lot.

Stability helps. On the girl's side, I am guessing that lots of talent has spread out in Tulsa. Some are going down to OKC, and others have gone sides with RL groups or, as we know from this board, even Dallas. Many parents probably think they are super cool now that they are doing well in the RL groups. So many of them probably have little to zero idea how big of a chasm between NL and RL teams.


As a true-blood Tulsan, it disgusts me that so many people are going down to OKC. I hope it disgusts people, too. It is so insulting to this city people are going down there to play. I refuse to believe Jimmy Hampton's legacy is beyond Tulsa.

Do you think cyp needs to be exited? What is his issue? I had a close friend's daughter who is very good to leave to go to OKC. She is an excellent player and the mom cited him.

I really like Cyp as a person. I believe he was thrown into ECNL due to coaches leaving the club before he was ready. His 09s are 3-9. His 11s are also 3-9. Both those teams have worse records this year under his leadership than last year. Poor performance creates tension among the players, parents, coach and club. I don’t believe Cyp has done a very good job in addressing the turmoil caused by losing. Some of the 2011 player losses were due to him while others fall back on Barry.

Nathan Doll is the best girls coach at TSC imo. They need to keep him in the fold. The girls staff needs consistency and Nathan is a great place to start building that foundation.

I don’t believe TSC has a single coach on the girls side who holds an “A” license. I’m sure Dirk will correct me if I’m incorrect. There are 16 girls teams in the ECNL Texas conference. I would be will to be that TSC is the only club who doesn’t have a single girls coach who holds an “A” license.

 

[tudirk]

I really like Cyp as a person. I believe he was thrown into ECNL due to coaches leaving the club before he was ready. His 09s are 3-9. His 11s are also 3-9. Both those teams have worse records this year under his leadership than last year. Poor performance creates tension among the players, parents, coach and club. I don’t believe Cyp has done a very good job in addressing the turmoil caused by losing. Some of the 2011 player losses were due to him while others fall back on Barry.

Nathan Doll is the best girls coach at TSC imo. They need to keep him in the fold. The girls staff needs consistency and Nathan is a great place to start building that foundation.

I don’t believe TSC has a single coach on the girls side who holds an “A” license. I’m sure Dirk will correct me if I’m incorrect. There are 16 girls teams in the ECNL Texas conference. I would be will to be that TSC is the only club who doesn’t have a single girls coach who holds an “A” license.

I have no idea. Vuko got his “A” license and I wouldn’t let him coach my son. Most coaches don’t get licensing because of $ not their abilities. Cyp would probably be better on the boys side. Nathan is a Star. Chris is great on the boys side. Tony is ok. Leo is awesome but the culture differences in US verse South America makes things tricky. Maybe to many Brazilian coaches?

 

[lawpoke87]

I have no idea. Vuko got his “A” license and I wouldn’t let him coach my son. Most coaches don’t get licensing because of $ not their abilities. Cyp would probably be better on the boys side. Nathan is a Star. Chris is great on the boys side. Tony is ok. Leo is awesome but the culture differences in US verse South America makes things tricky. Maybe to many Brazilian coaches?

I view an “A” license much like an MBA in business. The license shows a high level of experience and education in addition to being a status symbol. Which is why almost all ECNL clubs have at least one coach on each side with an “A” license. Lewis Amos and Yolanda Thomas both have their “A” license. Amos moving to Florida was a loss for the club imo.

Agree on Nathan. Very important for TSC to keep him in the fold. He’s the type of coach you can build your club around.

I like Leo and consider him a friend. We went to Las Vegas with him for futsal and he is an all-star in that arena. TSC threw him into coaching non-futsal teams when they ran low on coaches. I believe he’s done a fine job. He’s faced some really tough obstacles this past year and maybe hasn’t responded the best to them due in large part to cultural differences imo. Central and South American soccer culture is just different. Some coaches can adjust and some cannot. Many need a strong mentor to help them navigate the American culture. I wish him nothing but the best whether that’s in Tulsa or elsewhere.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I view an “A” license much like an MBA in business. The license shows a high level of experience and education in addition to being a status symbol. Which is why almost all ECNL clubs have at least one coach on each side with an “A” license. Lewis Amos and Yolanda Thomas both have their “A” license. Amos moving to Florida was a loss for the club imo.

Agree on Nathan. Very important for TSC to keep him in the fold. He’s the type of coach you can build your club around.

I like Leo and consider him a friend. We went to Las Vegas with him for futsal and he is an all-star in that arena. TSC threw him into coaching non-futsal teams when they ran low on coaches. I believe he’s done a fine job. He’s faced some really tough obstacles this past year and maybe hasn’t responded the best to them due in large part to cultural differences imo. Central and South American soccer culture is just different. Some coaches can adjust and some cannot. Many need a strong mentor to help them navigate the American culture. I wish him nothing but the best whether that’s in Tulsa or elsewhere.

I was around Yo-yo. She was nothing impressive, but maybe I am wrong, as she resonated differently. She was an odd duck.

Chris Taylor is a good coach. I watch him in games and sessions. I think he is good.

Leo is a good dude. He is mega-intense and isn't geared for less competitive people or people who aren't committed or locked in. He helped a team my son was on in only a few months. They needed a kick in the butt, and most of our parents wanted it. However, one or two kids feared him because he was so demanding. They got away with anything before but it wasn't going to cut it at the top level. As it stood the year before, they didn't have second-team players to replace them. It was a super young team, which I am not sure he usually coaches. Still, he has a ton of fun with them, though, and he's hilarious.

We never got to get him for futsal, which I am sure we will at some point if he hopefully stays in Tulsa.

I think one of the things that frustrates him is the American soccer culture of poaching players constantly. He thinks people are selling BS.

 

[lawpoke87]

I was around Yo-yo. She was nothing impressive, but maybe I am wrong, as she resonated differently. She was an odd duck.

Chris Taylor is a good coach. I watch him in games and sessions. I think he is good.

Leo is a good dude. He is mega-intense and isn't geared for less competitive people or people who aren't committed or locked in. He helped a team my son was on in only a few months. They needed a kick in the butt, and most of our parents wanted it. However, one or two kids feared him because he was so demanding. They got away with anything before but it wasn't going to cut it at the top level. As it stood the year before, they didn't have second-team players to replace them. It was a super young team, which I am not sure he usually coaches. Still, he has a ton of fun with them, though, and he's hilarious.

We never got to get him for futsal, which I am sure we will at some point if he hopefully stays in Tulsa.

I think one of the things that frustrates him is the American soccer culture of poaching players constantly. He thinks people are selling BS.

Yo is one of the more accomplished soccer coaches to ever come out of Tulsa. More importantly she was a member of the ECNL board while at TSC. She also had multiple relationships with college coaches which assisted TSC girls in recruiting. I would argue a lot of her value was away from the actual pitch . Here’s her bio.

Yolanda Thomas | Assistant Coach, Orlando Pride | Orlando Pride

Yolanda Thomas was named an assistant coach on Seb Hines’ staff during the 2023 preseason, joining from Tulsa Soccer Club and Fortuna Tulsa of the WPSL. During her tenure with Tulsa, she led the side to 2019 and 2021 Franchise of the Year and was named 2019 WPSL Red River

www.orlandocitysc.com

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Yo is one of the more accomplished soccer coaches to ever come out of Tulsa. More importantly she was a member of the ECNL board while at TSC. She also had multiple relationships with college coaches which assisted TSC girls in recruiting. I would argue a lot of her value was away from the actual pitch . Here’s her bio.

Yolanda Thomas | Assistant Coach, Orlando Pride | Orlando Pride

Yolanda Thomas was named an assistant coach on Seb Hines’ staff during the 2023 preseason, joining from Tulsa Soccer Club and Fortuna Tulsa of the WPSL. During her tenure with Tulsa, she led the side to 2019 and 2021 Franchise of the Year and was named 2019 WPSL Red River

www.orlandocitysc.com

If you look at any of the TSC ECNL top squads, do you think they struggle to get recruited? Negative. The current oldest team is going to a stout lineup of colleges. If you are a d1 school and don't know every ECNL-NL team in this country and aren't forming a relationship, especially in your region, you are a total failure.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I have no idea. Vuko got his “A” license and I wouldn’t let him coach my son. Most coaches don’t get licensing because of $ not their abilities. Cyp would probably be better on the boys side. Nathan is a Star. Chris is great on the boys side. Tony is ok. Leo is awesome but the culture differences in US verse South America makes things tricky. Maybe to many Brazilian coaches?

Is your son a '16?

 

[lawpoke87]

If you look at any of the TSC ECNL top squads, do you think they struggle to get recruited? Negative. The current oldest team is going to a stout lineup of colleges. If you are a d1 school and don't know every ECNL-NL team in this country and aren't forming a relationship, especially in your region, you are a total failure.

Depends on the year. The current senior class at TSC is a strong class and played at nationals multiple times. They also received marquee games at showcases due to their success. They earned the opportunity to be seen. The 2008 class is struggling with D1 schools. They have never been to nationals and get shuffled down at showcases to lower level games. Not many eyeballs on that group. The 09s are currently facing the same situation. Seeing 40 college coaches at a girls soccer game with their laminated sheets containing the bios of every girl on the pitch is a very cool sight. But those games are reserved for the high level sides

Yo would act as the go between for the college and the player as she had close contacts with most schools. That task is now almost exclusively on the player. Something which unfortunately is common in most clubs. This isn’t a criticism of TSC but a criticism of most clubs. I think you would be amazed at the number of emails and highlight reels freshmen and sophomore players send to colleges.

 

[Honkv]

Oh man, I am super happy to have found this forum and conversation.

I have thoughts / opinions on youth soccer in Tulsa and more broadly, Oklahoma.

My daughter is a 12 ECNL player and it's been a ROUGH year. We expected the first year to be tough, but this feels beyond "tough". I think there is an almost systemic problem with the girls side at TSC, especially this year.

There are not nearly enough coaches / resources being put into the girls side, especially in this age group. That being said: There are glimmers of hope. There are some things in the works that I truly appreciate and think can be a big positive, but there are still glaring issues that have to be addressed.

I can echo the sentiment re: Nathan. I like him a lot, I think he's a great asset. I hope TSC doesn't drop the ball with him. Them not doing everything they could to keep Tina happy is, in my opinion, one of the biggest fumbles. I couldn't tell you how many players and former players she's influenced / helped over the year.

There is definitely something wrong with the club / culture when you have top tier talent (at least for Oklahoma) either 1. leaving the club or 2. not coming to the club to begin with...and that's not being addressed. There are at least 3 2012 Girl players that should be playing for the Tulsa ECNL team and it seems as if it's not even an option for them. They / their families are not even considering us, or at least weren't. Maybe they will next season, but idk why they would when we aren't fostering a winning culture / addressing any of the glaring issues.

I will also say this: the 12 ECNL Girls coach, Gui, has been amazing. He's working within the confines of the club and doing his absolute best with what he's allowed to do and he's done an amazing job so far.

 

[lawpoke87]

Oh man, I am super happy to have found this forum and conversation.

I have thoughts / opinions on youth soccer in Tulsa and more broadly, Oklahoma.

My daughter is a 12 ECNL player and it's been a ROUGH year. We expected the first year to be tough, but this feels beyond "tough". I think there is an almost systemic problem with the girls side at TSC, especially this year.

There are not nearly enough coaches / resources being put into the girls side, especially in this age group. That being said: There are glimmers of hope. There are some things in the works that I truly appreciate and think can be a big positive, but there are still glaring issues that have to be addressed.

I can echo the sentiment re: Nathan. I like him a lot, I think he's a great asset. I hope TSC doesn't drop the ball with him. Them not doing everything they could to keep Tina happy is, in my opinion, one of the biggest fumbles. I couldn't tell you how many players and former players she's influenced / helped over the year.

There is definitely something wrong with the club / culture when you have top tier talent (at least for Oklahoma) either 1. leaving the club or 2. not coming to the club to begin with...and that's not being addressed. There are at least 3 2012 Girl players that should be playing for the Tulsa ECNL team and it seems as if it's not even an option for them. They / their families are not even considering us, or at least weren't. Maybe they will next season, but idk why they would when we aren't fostering a winning culture / addressing any of the glaring issues.

I will also say this: the 12 ECNL Girls coach, Gui, has been amazing. He's working within the confines of the club and doing his absolute best with what he's allowed to do and he's done an amazing job so far.

Welcome to the thread. I believe you have a very realistic view of the landscape at TSC….both positive and negative.

The 2012 group currently lacks the talent to compete for a Champions League spot in the Texas league. Those girls who are playing elsewhere would greatly help that squad. Some bridges have been burned by the club with those families. I do believe there’s a decent chance of getting one or two of those girls back in the next year or two. Especially if a change of leadership occurs.

TSC girls teams experience success at the academy level. Many parents don’t understand those teams in Dallas, Houston and Austin consolidate the talent beginning that first ECNL so the the teams you’re beating in U12 don’t have the same players as what you’re playing in U13.

The girls side has always been slighted imo on resources. Which is a bit odd since the girls side is more profitable as most of the fee waivers are given to the boys side. The girls side needs an overall coaching upgrade and those coaches need to be retained. A high turnover in the staff isn’t good for anybody.

I’m not sure if your daughter’s goal is to play college. If so let me know and I will be happy to give you my advice….right or wrong.

Like most of the older girls in the club, my daughter played for Tina. She was a very good transitional coach from academy to competitive. When a club is focused on cost cutting you’re going to lose some talented coaches

 

[Honkv]

Welcome to the thread. I believe you have a very realistic view of the landscape at TSC….both positive and negative.

The 2012 group currently lacks the talent to compete for a Champions League spot in the Texas league. Those girls who are playing elsewhere would greatly help that squad. Some bridges have been burned by the club with those families. I do believe there’s a decent chance of getting one or two of those girls back in the next year or two. Especially if a change of leadership occurs.

TSC girls teams experience success at the academy level. Many parents don’t understand those teams in Dallas, Houston and Austin consolidate the talent beginning that first ECNL so the the teams you’re beating in U12 don’t have the same players as what you’re playing in U13.

The girls side has always been slighted imo on resources. Which is a bit odd since the girls side is more profitable as most of the fee waivers are given to the boys side. The girls side needs an overall coaching upgrade and those coaches need to be retained. A high turnover in the staff isn’t good for anybody.

I’m not sure if your daughter’s goal is to play college. If so let me know and I will be happy to give you my advice….right or wrong.

Like most of the older girls in the club, my daughter played for Tina. She was a very good transitional coach from academy to competitive. When a club is focused on cost cutting you’re going to lose some talented coaches

My daughter isn't sure about college yet, so we're operating under the "play as well as you can at the highest level you can so if you choose to try to play in college, you'll at least have this going for you." Whether that's the right approach / mindset or not, idk.

I've been told that we have at least a shot at getting one of the girls back from OEFC, as their coach is a psychopath. I think there's another Tulsa 12 there, too, but I don't know them / their parents.

There for sure is a lack of talent currently, but beyond that, there's also a lack of unified goal / drive for them. It's pretty interesting to see the stratification amongst the team. There are girls that play to the best of their ability and hate losing and are visibly upset / demoralized after big losses, there are girls that act like they want to win but won't play as a team to get the win and then there are girls that just aren't there yet but are doing their best and would like to win.

The longer we're around this level of play and the more I'm around clubs in general, the more I understand about what it takes to win. I currently don't think TSC is doing what it takes to win. I think there isn't much that can be done to change it other than a radical overhaul. I see that y'all were talking about Leo earlier in the thread and I think someone like Leo is what's needed. As much as I personally don't care for JM, he has the drive to win and the club is missing that.

I personally feel that the club is doing a disservice by having them play outside too soon. We have some awesome futsal resources that we aren't using properly. If I had it to do over again, my daughter would've play more futsal when she was younger and then transitioned to soccer later on. Really drilled the speed of play and technical skill, then moved outdoors. But I guess that's not how you build a club or recruit players.

Edit: I think that, in Tulsa, there is a group of girls that could be a great roster. A really, truly competitive roster. I don't know if it'll ever happen though, as the parents are so divided about which club is the best, etc. I also have this theory that there aren't a whole lot of parents / players that want to build something great. They always just wanna join something great, just for the bragging rights. It's a travesty.

 

[lawpoke87]

My daughter isn't sure about college yet, so we're operating under the "play as well as you can at the highest level you can so if you choose to try to play in college, you'll at least have this going for you." Whether that's the right approach / mindset or not, idk.

I've been told that we have at least a shot at getting one of the girls back from OEFC, as their coach is a psychopath. I think there's another Tulsa 12 there, too, but I don't know them / their parents.

There for sure is a lack of talent currently, but beyond that, there's also a lack of unified goal / drive for them. It's pretty interesting to see the stratification amongst the team. There are girls that play to the best of their ability and hate losing and are visibly upset / demoralized after big losses, there are girls that act like they want to win but won't play as a team to get the win and then there are girls that just aren't there yet but are doing their best and would like to win.

The longer we're around this level of play and the more I'm around clubs in general, the more I understand about what it takes to win. I currently don't think TSC is doing what it takes to win. I think there isn't much that can be done to change it other than a radical overhaul. I see that y'all were talking about Leo earlier in the thread and I think someone like Leo is what's needed. As much as I personally don't care for JM, he has the drive to win and the club is missing that.

I personally feel that the club is doing a disservice by having them play outside too soon. We have some awesome futsal resources that we aren't using properly. If I had it to do over again, my daughter would've play more futsal when she was younger and then transitioned to soccer later on. Really drilled the speed of play and technical skill, then moved outdoors. But I guess that's not how you build a club or recruit players.

Edit: I think that, in Tulsa, there is a group of girls that could be a great roster. A really, truly competitive roster. I don't know if it'll ever happen though, as the parents are so divided about which club is the best, etc. I also have this theory that there aren't a whole lot of parents / players that want to build something great. They always just wanna join something great, just for the bragging rights. It's a travesty.

I view futsal more as a training supplement than a sole focus. My daughter played for 3 years. She played in the Tulsa league twice and the OKC league once. She played in two regionals and two nationals (Vegas and KC). I have no idea what the current futsal focus is at the academy level at TSC.

My 2 cents….we move to the big fields far too fast at TSC and in the US in general. The kids need to spend more time on the small fields playing small sides. Until they learn to properly receive a ball and pass a ball they shouldn’t even be playing against one another. We also place too much emphasis on winning at the academy level instead of learning to play the game. Kicking the ball to the corner flag isn’t teaching the kids anything but to kick and run. Learn to play out of the back the through midfield. That should be the priority not the scoreboard. Plenty of time for that at U13.

Most TSC academy players aren’t getting enough touches. A 10 year old should be touching the ball almost every day. They should also be supplementing team trainings with private or small group trainings. Why are Texas and California teams better? Those kids train more….a lot more. Not sure what TSC’s mindset is now but when my daughter was in academy they discouraged outside training. That kind of thinking will never consistently lead to the number of high quality players needed to reach Champions League in ECNL. Which should be the goal of every age group. Don’t let anyone tell you Champions League is out of reach…it’s not. Develop a plan, put in the work, and reach your goals. There is nothing in youth soccer comparable to Champions League playoffs. Every kid needs the opportunity to go at least once

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

 

[Honkv]

I view futsal more as a training supplement than a sole focus. My daughter played for 3 years. She played in the Tulsa league twice and the OKC league once. She played in two regionals and two nationals (Vegas and KC). I have no idea what the current futsal focus is at the academy level at TSC.

My 2 cents….we move to the big fields far too fast at TSC and in the US in general. The kids need to spend more time on the small fields playing small sides. Until they learn to properly receive a ball and pass a ball they shouldn’t even be playing against one another. We also place too much emphasis on winning at the academy level instead of learning to play the game. Kicking the ball to the corner flag isn’t teaching the kids anything but to kick and run. Learn to play out of the back the through midfield. That should be the priority not the scoreboard. Plenty of time for that at U13.

Most TSC academy players aren’t getting enough touches. A 10 year old should be touching the ball almost every day. They should also be supplementing team trainings with private or small group trainings. Why are Texas and California teams better? Those kids train more….a lot more. Not sure what TSC’s mindset is now but when my daughter was in academy they discouraged outside training. That kind of thinking will never consistently lead to the number of high quality players needed to reach Champions League in ECNL. Which should be the goal of every age group. Don’t let anyone tell you Champions League is out of reach…it’s not. Develop a plan, put in the work, and reach your goals. There is nothing in youth soccer comparable to Champions League playoffs. Every kid needs the opportunity to go at least once

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

I absolutely agree. I think the "curriculum" is wrong at TSC.

We should be 4 nights when we aren't travelling.

IDK how feasible it is, but I feel like it would be cool to see the kids train "position specific" stuff a bit. Get a coach that played as a defender at a high level to work with defenders, etc. It seems like our defenders largely don't understand what their job is. Same for our mids, etc.

I feel like TSC needs to say something like, "Your path is ECNL. We train 4 days a week. We expect this. If that's not for you, you don't have to be on the team / at the club. If this isn't for you, that's fine. We have other levels / leagues." Create that expectation. That was something I always admired about Tina: She expected the girls to WORK. Don't give up, don't be lazy, put in the work and the results would follow.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

Do I know who this Tina is?

 

[Honkv]

Do I know who this Tina is?

Tina Banham. She has held many roles at TSC and is currently the number 2 (I think) person working at Girls Academy.

 

[lawpoke87]

I absolutely agree. I think the "curriculum" is wrong at TSC.

We should be 4 nights when we aren't travelling.

IDK how feasible it is, but I feel like it would be cool to see the kids train "position specific" stuff a bit. Get a coach that played as a defender at a high level to work with defenders, etc. It seems like our defenders largely don't understand what their job is. Same for our mids, etc.

I feel like TSC needs to say something like, "Your path is ECNL. We train 4 days a week. We expect this. If that's not for you, you don't have to be on the team / at the club. If this isn't for you, that's fine. We have other levels / leagues." Create that expectation. That was something I always admired about Tina: She expected the girls to WORK. Don't give up, don't be lazy, put in the work and the results would follow.

Clubs would have to raise dues to pay coaches to train 4 days a week. Likely a no go for most clubs. My daughter’s team trains 3x a week. One of those weekly trainings is with a coach who specializes in defense Just fyi

 

[Honkv]

Clubs would have to raise dues to pay coaches to train 4 days a week. Likely a no go for most clubs. My daughter’s team trains 3x a week. One of those weekly trainings is with a coach who specializes in defense Just fyi

Yeah, that’s true but there is a huge gap and it’s gotta get closed one way or the other.

Or Barry could just eat the cost 😂

I think I know who your daughter is, actually. Which sounds super creepy whenever I say it out loud lol

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I view futsal more as a training supplement than a sole focus. My daughter played for 3 years. She played in the Tulsa league twice and the OKC league once. She played in two regionals and two nationals (Vegas and KC). I have no idea what the current futsal focus is at the academy level at TSC.

My 2 cents….we move to the big fields far too fast at TSC and in the US in general. The kids need to spend more time on the small fields playing small sides. Until they learn to properly receive a ball and pass a ball they shouldn’t even be playing against one another. We also place too much emphasis on winning at the academy level instead of learning to play the game. Kicking the ball to the corner flag isn’t teaching the kids anything but to kick and run. Learn to play out of the back the through midfield. That should be the priority not the scoreboard. Plenty of time for that at U13.

Most TSC academy players aren’t getting enough touches. A 10 year old should be touching the ball almost every day. They should also be supplementing team trainings with private or small group trainings. Why are Texas and California teams better? Those kids train more….a lot more. Not sure what TSC’s mindset is now but when my daughter was in academy they discouraged outside training. That kind of thinking will never consistently lead to the number of high quality players needed to reach Champions League in ECNL. Which should be the goal of every age group. Don’t let anyone tell you Champions League is out of reach…it’s not. Develop a plan, put in the work, and reach your goals. There is nothing in youth soccer comparable to Champions League playoffs. Every kid needs the opportunity to go at least once

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

As a parent of an academy player, futsal should be in addition to soccer, not as an alternative. It is just a different game. Technical yes. Not as much running, especially at the older ages.

My son plays up in 4 vs. 4, and playing at that age is getting a little old. I am ready for seven vs. 7.

I don't know the proper way to win vs. not win dynamic. Some kids come into academy environments that want a change from metro & YMCA-type places that think their kids are good or want a significant change. They quickly realize their kid is not good or their kid is going to get discouraged. It can be detrimental. Maybe they want it more than their kid does. They have to realize that soccer is a journey. Kids take a bit to come to it. I have seen it already. There is a kid that is starting to take off. Last year, his dad said he had such anxiety at Metro he would not even step on the field.

The top players will come in and feast on the weaker ones. They need to be partitioned off, but those parents get jealous that they will be left behind. I don't know what they think they gain by getting smashed 30-0 in a scrimmage, with the boys celebrating Ronaldo and Vini Junior after every goal.

That said, I think some horrible game setups cannot be beneficial to build out teams.

I am not sure what you mean by "discouraged outside training." Are you talking about non-TSC private trainers?

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I absolutely agree. I think the "curriculum" is wrong at TSC.

We should be 4 nights when we aren't travelling.

IDK how feasible it is, but I feel like it would be cool to see the kids train "position specific" stuff a bit. Get a coach that played as a defender at a high level to work with defenders, etc. It seems like our defenders largely don't understand what their job is. Same for our mids, etc.

I feel like TSC needs to say something like, "Your path is ECNL. We train 4 days a week. We expect this. If that's not for you, you don't have to be on the team / at the club. If this isn't for you, that's fine. We have other levels / leagues." Create that expectation. That was something I always admired about Tina: She expected the girls to WORK. Don't give up, don't be lazy, put in the work and the results would follow.

Four nights a week requires commitment from the kids and parents, too. If you don't have that, you are screwed. Do you think it would be there to train? It is ridiculous that you don't want that if you are playing at that level. But Oklahomans think of Broken Arrow as their competition, not Solar or FC Dallas. High school is terrible.

We have issues with commitment levels. Granted, I am at a much younger age, but there are a couple of parents who do not understand what it means to play on the top team vs not. It annoys the hell out of committed vs not committed parents. Their kids are pretty good but do dumb stuff because they don't attend the entire practice lineup. It is infuriating.

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

Oh man, I am super happy to have found this forum and conversation.

I have thoughts / opinions on youth soccer in Tulsa and more broadly, Oklahoma.

My daughter is a 12 ECNL player and it's been a ROUGH year. We expected the first year to be tough, but this feels beyond "tough". I think there is an almost systemic problem with the girls side at TSC, especially this year.

There are not nearly enough coaches / resources being put into the girls side, especially in this age group. That being said: There are glimmers of hope. There are some things in the works that I truly appreciate and think can be a big positive, but there are still glaring issues that have to be addressed.

I can echo the sentiment re: Nathan. I like him a lot, I think he's a great asset. I hope TSC doesn't drop the ball with him. Them not doing everything they could to keep Tina happy is, in my opinion, one of the biggest fumbles. I couldn't tell you how many players and former players she's influenced / helped over the year.

There is definitely something wrong with the club / culture when you have top tier talent (at least for Oklahoma) either 1. leaving the club or 2. not coming to the club to begin with...and that's not being addressed. There are at least 3 2012 Girl players that should be playing for the Tulsa ECNL team and it seems as if it's not even an option for them. They / their families are not even considering us, or at least weren't. Maybe they will next season, but idk why they would when we aren't fostering a winning culture / addressing any of the glaring issues.

I will also say this: the 12 ECNL Girls coach, Gui, has been amazing. He's working within the confines of the club and doing his absolute best with what he's allowed to do and he's done an amazing job so far.

As someone who played for them and against them and hated them.

Now, my son plays for them at a young age. I think they have issues, but I wonder what issues you believe aren't elsewhere, relative to them. Do you think that money is not an issue at other locations? Does OEFC, Roger Bush and Wibur Maximore show you their 990s with their top 5 vendors and salaries? No. Tell me how awesome it is to train at West Bank and Alsuma. Things cost money.

Joao was fired from WSA and TSC and is probably now Blitz because he does his Joao things. Coaching girls but telling them they aren't good enough to be coaches. That is some sick, sick stuff. JM was damn near fired perhaps 50 times from TSC because of the way he acted on the sidelines both towards referees and other coaches. It was ludicrous. The ECNL told TSC they would have to release him if he didn't get his stuff together.

Finding coaches that can move the needle is always hard, especially in Tulsa.

Players and parents get butthurt because they are told something they don't want to hear.

As I said before, I am a self-respecting blue-blood Tulsan. I can't imagine driving to OKC to play soccer, but I also can't imagine losing constantly. I also know if three or four of my friends could change the face of a team. I would be convincing them to make a big change to go compete.

BTW...My wife works with a WSA coach, and he said he would have done the same thing they did with Vuka. But, but TSC is such meanypants...Technico took TSC 16s over there and immediately cut three because they combined with another team. But you go on with how mean they are.

 

[lawpoke87]

As a parent of an academy player, futsal should be in addition to soccer, not as an alternative. It is just a different game. Technical yes. Not as much running, especially at the older ages.

My son plays up in 4 vs. 4, and playing at that age is getting a little old. I am ready for seven vs. 7.

I don't know the proper way to win vs. not win dynamic. Some kids come into academy environments that want a change from metro & YMCA-type places that think their kids are good or want a significant change. They quickly realize their kid is not good or their kid is going to get discouraged. It can be detrimental. Maybe they want it more than their kid does. They have to realize that soccer is a journey. Kids take a bit to come to it. I have seen it already. There is a kid that is starting to take off. Last year, his dad said he had such anxiety at Metro he would not even step on the field.

The top players will come in and feast on the weaker ones. They need to be partitioned off, but those parents get jealous that they will be left behind. I don't know what they think they gain by getting smashed 30-0 in a scrimmage, with the boys celebrating Ronaldo and Vini Junior after every goal.

That said, I think some horrible game setups cannot be beneficial to build out teams.

I am not sure what you mean by "discouraged outside training." Are you talking about non-TSC private trainers?

I was constantly told my kid was over training (we only utilized TSC trainers). 2 to 3 team sessions and 1 or 2 private or small groups a week for a 10 year old is not over training btw. Not sure a 10 year old can over train truth be told. I know for a fact those Dallas kids on the top teams are training that much AND training with whoever they want. She was blocked by the club from training with other TSC teams during off days or weekends even though the coaches of those teams told the club she had an invite. I talked to a 2011 boy’s RL parent last week who was told he shouldn’t train with outside trainers. The reasoning is solely that the club is scared to lose the kid when the focus should be on development. That said, in light of recent events I do understand. Doesn’t mean the kid’s development isn’t being hurt though. Kids need a lot more touches than they get with three team trainings 9 months a year.

Dallas has large private training facilities apart from the clubs. Much like Samba here in Tulsa. Why is Dallas soccer so good other than population? Because those kids are getting professional level training and lots of touches. Simply put, our kids here don’t spend enough time with the all at their feet.

There are issues with every club btw. Some different and some the same. You acknowledge the problems and do what’s best for your kid

 

[TulsaRulzOSUdrools]

I was constantly told my kid was over training (we only utilized TSC trainers). 2 to 3 team sessions and 1 or 2 private or small groups a week for a 10 year old is not over training btw. Not sure a 10 year old can over train truth be told. I know for a fact those Dallas kids on the top teams are training that much AND training with whoever they want. She was blocked by the club from training with other TSC teams during off days or weekends even though the coaches of those teams told the club she had an invite. I talked to a 2011 boy’s RL parent last week who was told he shouldn’t train with outside trainers. The reasoning is solely that the club is scared to lose the kid when the focus should be on development. That said, in light of recent events I do understand. Doesn’t mean the kid’s development isn’t being hurt though. Kids need a lot more touches than they get with three team trainings 9 months a year.

Dallas has large private training facilities apart from the clubs. Much like Samba here in Tulsa. Why is Dallas soccer so good other than population? Because those kids are getting professional level training and lots of touches. Simply put, our kids here don’t spend enough time with the all at their feet.

There are issues with every club btw. Some different and some the same. You acknowledge the problems and do what’s best for your kid

Hmmmm.... I don't get that vibe at all. From my experience, they say to touch the ball more, not less....a lot more.


I think it has to depend on the ding-dong you are talking to.

 

[lawpoke87]

Hmmmm.... I don't get that vibe at all. From my experience, they say to touch the ball more, not less....a lot more.


I think it has to depend on the ding-dong you are talking to.

Those ding dongs would have been the club CFO, ECNL director and every ECNL coach on the girls side at the time. Again….its been several years. Hopefully things have changed.

I do think the boys side has been historically better than the girls side as far as coaching quality and retention

 

[HuffyCane]

I was constantly told my kid was over training (we only utilized TSC trainers). 2 to 3 team sessions and 1 or 2 private or small groups a week for a 10 year old is not over training btw. Not sure a 10 year old can over train truth be told. I know for a fact those Dallas kids on the top teams are training that much AND training with whoever they want. She was blocked by the club from training with other TSC teams during off days or weekends even though the coaches of those teams told the club she had an invite. I talked to a 2011 boy’s RL parent last week who was told he shouldn’t train with outside trainers. The reasoning is solely that the club is scared to lose the kid when the focus should be on development. That said, in light of recent events I do understand. Doesn’t mean the kid’s development isn’t being hurt though. Kids need a lot more touches than they get with three team trainings 9 months a year.

Dallas has large private training facilities apart from the clubs. Much like Samba here in Tulsa. Why is Dallas soccer so good other than population? Because those kids are getting professional level training and lots of touches. Simply put, our kids here don’t spend enough time with the all at their feet.

There are issues with every club btw. Some different and some the same. You acknowledge the problems and do what’s best for your kid

Girls 10 to 13 absolutely can overtrain playing ECNL.

First, if the purpose of ECNL is to prepare her for a college scholarship, then establishing a routine and physical/mental limits consistent with a college player is a good foundation. College players at every level must take one day off per week for this reason.

Second, female players at that age are beginning puberty. Over exertion and improper rest/nutrition can have serious long term developmental consequences. Tendons and other tissues are beginning to grow rapidly to adjust to bone growth. Over exertion can break down bone growth and lead to micro tears in tendons that don’t show up as injuries until 16 or 17 when suddenly the girl has an open field ACL blowout or “slips” in the shower.

Third, for many girls the hormonal adjustments of menstruation beginning can and will affect the nervous system of an over trained player in adverse ways including sleep disruption, diet habits, and fatigue related injuries.

The absolutely need parent enforced breaks and parent guided strength, conditioning, speed and scrimmage training. Too much of one and not enough of another is a disaster.

There’s plenty of literature on this. And I’ve lived it. Erica Suter writes extensively about it and I encourage every female player parent to read her stuff.

 

[lawpoke87]

Girls 10 to 13 absolutely can overtrain playing ECNL.

First, if the purpose of ECNL is to prepare her for a college scholarship, then establishing a routine and physical/mental limits consistent with a college player is a good foundation. College players at every level must take one day off per week for this reason.

Second, female players at that age are beginning puberty. Over exertion and improper rest/nutrition can have serious long term developmental consequences. Tendons and other tissues are beginning to grow rapidly to adjust to bone growth. Over exertion can break down bone growth and lead to micro tears in tendons that don’t show up as injuries until 16 or 17 when suddenly the girl has an open field ACL blowout or “slips” in the shower.

Third, for many girls the hormonal adjustments of menstruation beginning can and will affect the nervous system of an over trained player in adverse ways including sleep disruption, diet habits, and fatigue related injuries.

The absolutely need parent enforced breaks and parent guided strength, conditioning, speed and scrimmage training. Too much of one and not enough of another is a disaster.

There’s plenty of literature on this. And I’ve lived it. Erica Suter writes extensively about it and I encourage every female player parent to read her stuff.

10 and 11 year olds aren’t playing ECNL. Agree to disagree that 2 to 3 team trainings a week and 1 to 2 outside trainings constitutes over training at the age of 10. I’ve been to very few ten year old girl team trainings which I would consider intense. Now once a girl reaches puberty (12-15) then I absolutely agree. Training must decrease and an emphasis placed on recovery and nutrition. Many girls teams see a dramatic increase in injuries at the U15 range. My daughter’s team has been no different. We’ve had a full roster for one game this season. She probably spends as much time with injury prevention training as actual soccer at this point. It is what it is with teenage girls and soccer

You’re spot on with your analysis regarding girls and puberty. I wish the clubs would spend more time on education with their girls teams. Instead they tend to just throw them out there and hope for the best. Don’t get me started on turf and teenage female soccer players. Witnessed a 15 year old tear her ACL and MCL in our last game. Just heartbreaking heading into her recruitment year

 

[HuffyCane]

10 and 11 year olds aren’t playing ECNL. Agree to disagree that 2 to 3 team trainings a week and 1 to 2 outside trainings constitutes over training at the age of 10. Now once a girl reaches puberty (12-15) then I absolutely agree. Training must decrease and an emphasis placed on recovery and nutrition. Many girls teams see a dramatic increase in injuries at the U15 range. My daughter’s team has been no different. We’ve had a full roster for one game this season. She probably spends as much time with injury prevention training as actual soccer at this point. It is what it is with teenage girls and soccer

You’re spot on with your analysis regarding girls and puberty. I wish the clubs would spend more time on education with their girls teams. Instead they tend to just throw them out there and hope for the best. Don’t get me started on turf and teenage female soccer players. Witnessed a 15 year old tear her ACL and MCL in our last game. Just heartbreaking heading into her recruitment year

It’s not up to me to change your mind.

I think if you read some of what Suter and some of the pro physiologists have written, the changes they are concerned about happen early, ages 9 to 11 as puberty begins, but before growth spurts.

And the 15 year old you are talking about May also be what I am talking about. Structural damage from overuse stacking up over years. I’ve read the studies about the turf and that’s certainly interesting.