USMNT WCQ Thread

[quincy101]

I beg to differ with a couple of Huffy's otherwise excellent points in his lengthy missive above. First, we had Pepi & Aaronson( both of whom I really like) in the last 3 matches. Then, Beer?halter runs out Ferreira, Morris and of course, Zardes. How did that work out? Zip, zilch, bupkis.

While Beer?halter is constantly tinkering with line-ups at this late date, maybe it's time to get serious about who can score & who can't. Which brings me to Jordan Pefok, age 25. This guy is much more than "interesting". He learned his trade as a youngster in the French Ligue Un and surely no one would consider this league beneath MLS. One year with Stade de Reims he scored 17 goals in 31 apps for them. His transfer to Stade Rennais was marked by injury...only 11 apps in two years which led to his xfer to Young Boys, a definite step down as Huffy said.

However, with Young Boys in the Swiss League, he is tearing up the competition. Since they win that League most every year, he has been in the Champions League both years with YB and has scored 5 times. A stat many pros would kill for vs competition again, a step or two above MLS. I believe that Pefok will not be at YB much longer, maybe as soon as the transfer window this summer.

Then there is Zack Steffen, who it is true, rarely starts for Man City. Unfortunately, he plays behind Ederson, a top 5 goalie on the planet, who is leading City to another destruction of the Premier League. Still, he practices against world class players every day which has to improve his skills. I admit, however, that nothing prepares a player like playing.

I believe that Zimmerman/Brooks should be the pairing in central defense. No knock on Chris Richards who should definitely be in the squad. But Zimmerman has developed wonderfully as a defender & as a passer. And, for a team that struggles (currently) for goals, he can score off set-pieces as he has just demonstrated.

 

[TU_BLA]

I beg to differ with a couple of Huffy's otherwise excellent points in his lengthy missive above. First, we had Pepi & Aaronson( both of whom I really like) in the last 3 matches. Then, Beer?halter runs out Ferreira, Morris and of course, Zardes. How did that work out? Zip, zilch, bupkis.

While Beer?halter is constantly tinkering with line-ups at this late date, maybe it's time to get serious about who can score & who can't. Which brings me to Jordan Pefok, age 25. This guy is much more than "interesting". He learned his trade as a youngster in the French Ligue Un and surely no one would consider this league beneath MLS. One year with Stade de Reims he scored 17 goals in 31 apps for them. His transfer to Stade Rennais was marked by injury...only 11 apps in two years which led to his xfer to Young Boys, a definite step down as Huffy said.

However, with Young Boys in the Swiss League, he is tearing up the competition. Since they win that League most every year, he has been in the Champions League both years with YB and has scored 5 times. A stat many pros would kill for vs competition again, a step or two above MLS. I believe that Pefok will not be at YB much longer, maybe as soon as the transfer window this summer.

Then there is Zack Steffen, who it is true, rarely starts for Man City. Unfortunately, he plays behind Ederson, a top 5 goalie on the planet, who is leading City to another destruction of the Premier League. Still, he practices against world class players every day which has to improve his skills. I admit, however, that nothing prepares a player like playing.

I believe that Zimmerman/Brooks should be the pairing in central defense. No knock on Chris Richards who should definitely be in the squad. But Zimmerman has developed wonderfully as a defender & as a passer. And, for a team that struggles (currently) for goals, he can score off set-pieces as he has just demonstrated.

Miles Robinson can score just as well as Zimmerman and is probably a bit more athletic than Zimmerman. I like the fact that we have 3-4 CBs we can debate as the best pairing for the US when 4 years ago we were trying to clean the lint out of the dryer hoping we could find just 1 CB who could play against Mexico and not look like an 11 year old playing against adults. Stuck with the likes of Besler, Ream, and Miazga. Again, Ream is a good player...he's just not a CB that you should be playing against WC caliber competition.

And if Zimmerman were 22-23 years old, he'd likely find himself on a Euro squad somewhere. The fact that he is usually the oldest player the US trots out there right now probably quells any talk of him moving overseas. Not many teams want to take a chance on an older player who may or may not pan out at that level.

 

[HuffyCane]

Miles Robinson can score just as well as Zimmerman and is probably a bit more athletic than Zimmerman. I like the fact that we have 3-4 CBs we can debate as the best pairing for the US when 4 years ago we were trying to clean the lint out of the dryer hoping we could find just 1 CB who could play against Mexico and not look like an 11 year old playing against adults. Stuck with the likes of Besler, Ream, and Miazga. Again, Ream is a good player...he's just not a CB that you should be playing against WC caliber competition.

And if Zimmerman were 22-23 years old, he'd likely find himself on a Euro squad somewhere. The fact that he is usually the oldest player the US trots out there right now probably quells any talk of him moving overseas. Not many teams want to take a chance on an older player who may or may not pan out at that level.

Zimmerman is 28 and on the edge of too old for any club. He had several tendered offers from Europe over the years. MLS has countered them all.

 

[quincy101]

Zimmerman is 28 and on the edge of too old for any club. He had several tendered offers from Europe over the years. MLS has countered them all.

I thought age 27-28 was Prime Time for a pro athlete ( peak physical condition & so much valuable experience). If this is true, than it's true for pro soccer players as well. I thought Zimmerman was a well deserved MOTM vs El Sal. Full of fire & energy, ices the win with the USA's 2nd, solid at the back. To hell with the weather, bring it on.....to paraphrase his comments before the match.

I'm thrilled the USA has finally produced a first class center back not named Brooks.

 

[TU_BLA]

I thought age 27-28 was Prime Time for a pro athlete ( peak physical condition & so much valuable experience). If this is true, than it's true for pro soccer players as well. I thought Zimmerman was a well deserved MOTM vs El Sal. Full of fire & energy, ices the win with the USA's 2nd, solid at the back. To hell with the weather, bring it on.....to paraphrase his comments before the match.

I'm thrilled the USA has finally produced a first class center back not named Brooks.

Soccer peak may be slightly under 27, unless you're a GK and then it becomes 27-30. I don't think you'll see guys like Donovan and Damarcus Beasley again where you get players that are part of 4 WC cycles.

As you get closer to 30, especially at CB, you start to wane (see Mexico's struggles)

 

[HuffyCane]

28 is typically the last year of your career in soccer as a defender. There are exceptions to that, but you are at the end of your deal or you are signing one years by that point.

It’s definitely over the hill in the international game where it’s all avoit youth and speed.

How screwed up is USSF? Zimmerman wasn’ even in the pool four months ago and now he might captain Qatar. Zimmerman is a third teamer at best on any squad that wants to win a knockout round game.

 

[quincy101]

As I watch a lot of Chelsea, they have one of Huffy's "exceptions" in the form of Thiago Silva. Chelsea keeps giving this 37-yr old one year contracts and can't get rid of him. With so much experience, he is the undisputed anchor in the middle of Chelsea's D.

He's won a WC, CHLg and every major trophy that means anything...except the Club World Cup which he might win this Saturday. That goes for C. Pulisic as well. CP was on the bench for Chelsea's semi-final win. How typical of Herr Tuchel to bench CP lately. Even though Tuchel was not around due to Covid positive, he was surely calling the shots.

This Club World Cup is champs of other world regions, although considered less important than Champions League. Chelsea & CP play Palmeiras of Brazil, considered So. American club team champs on Saturday, at 10:30 am on FS2. It might be a very interesting match. I just hope CP plays a part in it.

 

[TU_BLA]

As I watch a lot of Chelsea, they have one of Huffy's "exceptions" in the form of Thiago Silva. Chelsea keeps giving this 37-yr old one year contracts and can't get rid of him. With so much experience, he is the undisputed anchor in the middle of Chelsea's D.

He's won a WC, CHLg and every major trophy that means anything...except the Club World Cup which he might win this Saturday. That goes for C. Pulisic as well. CP was on the bench for Chelsea's semi-final win. How typical of Herr Tuchel to bench CP lately. Even though Tuchel was not around due to Covid positive, he was surely calling the shots.

This Club World Cup is champs of other world regions, although considered less important than Champions League. Chelsea & CP play Palmeiras of Brazil, considered So. American club team champs on Saturday, at 10:30 am on FS2. It might be a very interesting match. I just hope CP plays a part in it.

So CP doesn't look terribly productive if you play him in the wrong position. And the stupid thing is neither Chelsea or the USMNT need to play him in the wrong position. CHE could play CP-Lukaku-Havertz/Ziyech across the front with Mount at the 10 and they'd be pretty formidable in terms of creating attack. Yet, Tuchel keeps trying to play CP on the right or at the 8 and with USMNT, I think the US is most effective with Aaronson starting on the left and CP spelling him the last 20 min of the game. Both those players have ridiculous pace with the ball at their feet and bringing CP just absolutely puts a D in dread because they're tired, they start to lose focus and now you've got one of the best tight space technical players on the planet coming in. Yet, Berhalter loves playing CP at the 10 where he gets absolutely beat up by the 6 and the CBs and that is the tactic on CP. Beat on him until he starts shying away from taking on defenders 1 v 1 or he just gets rid of the ball too soon. Mexico knew this 4 years ago and just constantly went at CPs ankles.

 

[quincy101]

Zimmerman is a third teamer at best on any squad that wants to win a knockout round game.

If he helps get us to the WC Finals, he's pulled his weight. But if he's third team in the knockout round, please list those center backs on team's 1 and 2 that are better. I like Miles Robinson, but he doesn't have the experience to deal with WC competition. For that matter, Zimmerman will play against a skill level that will require him upping his game. I think he's capable based on his performance these last 3 qualifiers.

 

[HuffyCane]

If he helps get us to the WC Finals, he's pulled his weight. But if he's third team in the knockout round, please list those center backs on team's 1 and 2 that are better. I like Miles Robinson, but he doesn't have the experience to deal with WC competition. For that matter, Zimmerman will play against a skill level that will require him upping his game. I think he's capable based on his performance these last 3 qualifiers.

My point is that we may not have them.

Would he start for England? Italy? Ghana?

 

[drboobay]

My point is that we may not have them.

Would he start for England? Italy? Ghana?

Mexico?

 

[HuffyCane]

Mexico?

Maybe. Probably.

Brooks is our only legit known quantity international defender and he’s got a bad attitude and worse form. Hopefully he claws back. Time has been short lately. I’ll post later why Brooks and Zimmerman together are a bad idea if you want to attack forward with our youngsters.

 

[drboobay]

Maybe. Probably.

Brooks is our only legit known quantity international defender and he’s got a bad attitude and worse form. Hopefully he claws back. Time has been short lately. I’ll post later why Brooks and Zimmerman together are a bad idea if you want to attack forward with our youngsters.

I guess one point I was trying to get across is that even though we may not have WC finalist or even quarterfinals level talent at every position we are pretty talented. From what I have seen certainly enough to finish in the concacaf top 3 and probably do ok against the mid pack Euro nations.

I guess we will see soon enough.

 

[TU_BLA]

My point is that we may not have them.

Would he start for England? Italy? Ghana?

My son would swear anyone is better than Harry McGuire on the England backline

 

[TU_BLA]

Mexico?

He could start for Mexico. All of our defenders could start for Mexico. Their backline is a very eye popping weak link. That's the reason why Ochoa hangs around (like Howard and Guzan 4 years ago in the US). Watching some of their qualifiers, I almost feel like Tata just wants the ball cleared up the field and bypassing trying to work it out with that backline. And there's an obvious lack of communication back there...they have so many issues in understanding positioning, seeing potential runs against, and closing down lanes. And to boot...they just don't move that well.

 

[TU_BLA]

I guess one point I was trying to get across is that even though we may not have WC finalist or even quarterfinals level talent at every position we are pretty talented. From what I have seen certainly enough to finish in the concacaf top 3 and probably do ok against the mid pack Euro nations.

I guess we will see soon enough.

The US can make the quarterfinals of the WC IF Berhalter decides to stick with the starting 11 against Mexico (w/ minor tweaks). He can't bring in and start a bunch of MLS players like he did vs Canada. Stick with the Euro based players and this team can go a long way. They will absolutely have to play their best and dictate the tempo. If they sit back and hope to counter they'll get destroyed. We have an extreme amount of athleticism and speed up top and in the MF, enough to really put most teams on their heels. Who has more? Brazil, Argentina, England, Spain, France...Canada (maybe). Germans don't...Belgians don't, Italy and Portugal don't (and one of them is not making it anyway). Senegal? And I would give the US a punchers chance against England and Spain and maybe Argentina. Don't get me wrong...Belgium and Germany are good teams but they do it differently than England, Spain and France who try to overwhelm you with the same strength the US has. Brazil is just a different beast because they can run out 2 separate sides of 11 and that would be considered a top 5 team in the world.

 

[quincy101]

CP doesn't start in the Club World Cup (for the 4th straight match) but is 1st off Tuchel's bench to replace Mason Mount who got dinged up in the 31st min. Pulisic does well, winning 4 or 5 free kicks, 3 or so shots that he could have scored on and lots of space to roam behind Lukaku in central midfield. The match goes to 30 minutes of extra time & Chelsea wins it on a PK late.

Another trophy for Chelsea and CP to pad his resume.

 

[TU_BLA]

Aaronson with an assist in RB Salzburg's UCL match vs Bayern today. Salzburg is currently up 1-0 on one of the favorites in the competition.

 

[quincy101]

I'm not sure an assist will help Aaronson get off the scoring Schneid but I sure hope so. He flicked on a pass to a teammate who slammed it home from about 18 yds out. Unfortunately, Bayern ties it up in the 90th min. and it ends 1-1. People talk about Mo Salah, the Swedish dude, K. Mbappe & others as the best striker on the planet. Bayern Munich may have him in the form of Robert Lewandoski with 33 goals and counting in all competitions.

 

[TU_BLA]

I'm not sure an assist will help Aaronson get off the scoring Schneid but I sure hope so. He flicked on a pass to a teammate who slammed it home from about 18 yds out. Unfortunately, Bayern ties it up in the 90th min. and it ends 1-1. People talk about Mo Salah, the Swedish dude, K. Mbappe & others as the best striker on the planet. Bayern Munich may have him in the form of Robert Lewandoski with 33 goals and counting in all competitions.

Lewandoski is a different type of player than Salah and Mbappe. They get the nods from folks because they put defenders on skates and get people to stand up and go "Ooh". Lewandoski is that guy who is getting the ball and you can't get it away. For a big guy he finds the smallest of spaces and uses it to his advantage. But for every striker like that, there's a guy getting him the ball in those spaces and at the right time.

I don't disagree with you. Not sure why he isn't in the convo for Ballon d'Or more prevalently since he has just consistently produced at this level for the last 4-5 years.

 

[quincy101]

CP goes 90+ for Chelsea vs Crystal Palace today in a 1-0 win. Arsenal fans (you know who you are) might give a look to Palace whose new coach is Patrick Viera. Viera has them playing very well. Their best player, Conor Gallagher, was absent due to being a Chelsea loan out and Palace still gave Chelsea all they could handle. It wasn't CP's best outing but Herr Tuchel has him always playing out of position, again in central midfield behind R. Lukaku.

 

[quincy101]

Jordan Pefok scored his 20th in all comps for Young Boys today via PK. Does Beer?halter just believe that Pefok's Swiss League is too far below MLS to count? Maybe he will get a shot in March.

 

[Gold*]

Reyna is hurt. Damn

 

[TU_BLA]

Reyna is hurt. Damn

Saw that.

 

[TU_BLA]

Norwich scored the 1st goal of the match against Liverpool the other day and Carrot Top had the assist. He's been playing really well for the Canaries and there's not a ton of talent around him. He's certainly in GREAT form and should be part of the mix next month.

 

[TU_BLA]

Reyna is hurt. Damn

Dortmund provided a Twitter update saying Reyna's issue is not a serious one. Zagadou however tore a muscle.

And remember, Claudio Reyna always seemed to be hurt for key moments of qualifying and in the WC

 

[drboobay]

Didn't he get a key red card too?

 

[nevadanatural]

I was surprised to see CBS broadcast a champions league game on a Tuesday. Pulisic scored a very nice goal for Chelsea and played a good overall game. Anyone watch Juventus and McKennie?

 

[quincy101]

Wes Mckinnie tweaks an ankle about the 80th minute and has a guy under each arm helping him off the field. I think it was at home so they'll play the 2nd leg in Spain in about 3 weeks. We need him healthy for next month. I was wrong, this is the start of the knockout round. And on CP's goal, it was about the 5th time he had made a run down that left side, and the first time a teammate had bothered to pass it to him. Should be the MOTM for his play.

BTW, Tim Weah for Lille never got off the bench, on his 22nd birthday no less. And his Daddy (a world player of the year) used to play at Stanford Bridge for Chelsea.

 

[nevadanatural]

Wes Mckinnie tweaks an ankle about the 80th minute and has a guy under each arm helping him off the field. I think it was at home so they'll play the 2nd leg in Spain in about 3 weeks. We need him healthy for next month. I was wrong, this is the start of the knockout round. And on CP's goal, it was about the 5th time he had made a run down that left side, and the first time a teammate had bothered to pass it to him. Should be the MOTM for his play.

BTW, Tim Weah for Lille never got off the bench, on his 22nd birthday no less. And his Daddy (a world player of the year) used to play at Stanford Bridge for Chelsea.

Early reports are that he fractured two bones in his left foot. If true he will miss the final round of qualifying.

 

[goldfan83]

Acosta has to be his replacement. I am sure he will reach down into the depths of the MLS to find someone with 5x less drive and 10x less talent.

 

[drboobay]

Acosta is VERY different. His offensive skills are mostly around set pieces versus being a versatile and dynamic player.

But there is not an obvious answer. Set pieces are important of course and Acosta will mix it up.

 

[nevadanatural]

A lot depends on whether Reyna is healthy or not.

 

[TU_BLA]

McKennie has been ruled out for the 3 final WCQ games. Not good. Probably Musah in that role for those games with Aaronson and then Pulisic-9-Weah across the front. Adams will be the 6. And then our back 4.

 

[quincy101]

I've zapped previous post since dates were screwed up. Sorry!

 

[HuffyCane]

Marsch takes the helm at Leeds.

 

[TU_BLA]

Marsch takes the helm at Leeds.

Leeds is a curious team. Tons of offensive talent and creativity....loads of issues in the back. Will see if there is a change of philosophy defensively which will undoubtedly affect the way they attack. Leeds has been a every man forward type of attacking team when they get the ball...and they move the ball up field as quickly as any team in EPL. But they've always put themselves in odd man break counter situations. Last year they were able to finish many of their attacks and this year they've not experienced the same clinical finishing and thus their struggle to stay out of the relegation zone right now.

 

[HuffyCane]

Leeds is a curious team. Tons of offensive talent and creativity....loads of issues in the back. Will see if there is a change of philosophy defensively which will undoubtedly affect the way they attack. Leeds has been a every man forward type of attacking team when they get the ball...and they move the ball up field as quickly as any team in EPL. But they've always put themselves in odd man break counter situations. Last year they were able to finish many of their attacks and this year they've not experienced the same clinical finishing and thus their struggle to stay out of the relegation zone right now.

That's Bielsa. Beautiful confusion. Come in as a legend. Tell your players they will be legends playing for him. They initially believe it. Throw up an attacking mess that the other sides can't figure out that everyone on TV calls next generation futuristic. Get burned on the counter. Hold on to win every game 3-2. He's a genius. Not on the pitch, but that he has kept that going for decades at multiple clubs. I wish him well. Im glad he did not accept the low ball offer from USMNT to coach us.

 

[HuffyCane]

Leeds is a curious team. Tons of offensive talent and creativity....loads of issues in the back. Will see if there is a change of philosophy defensively which will undoubtedly affect the way they attack. Leeds has been a every man forward type of attacking team when they get the ball...and they move the ball up field as quickly as any team in EPL. But they've always put themselves in odd man break counter situations. Last year they were able to finish many of their attacks and this year they've not experienced the same clinical finishing and thus their struggle to stay out of the relegation zone right now.

They are going down and know it. Jesse gets the pay off of trying to keep them up and coaching in the EPL. But both sides know they want a soft landing with a great quality coach who can move them back up from the Championship in one or at most two years. Go down. Liquidate debt and dead roster players/money, cancel the debt on all the players out on loan, then go up for the pay day. That appears to be the plan. Almost a structured bankruptcy of sorts but on the pitch. Jesse gets the chance to resurrect his career as an American getting too much too fast.

 

[TU_BLA]

They are going down and know it. Jesse gets the pay off of trying to keep them up and coaching in the EPL. But both sides know they want a soft landing with a great quality coach who can move them back up from the Championship in one or at most two years. Go down. Liquidate debt and dead roster players/money, cancel the debt on all the players out on loan, then go up for the pay day. That appears to be the plan. Almost a structured bankruptcy of sorts but on the pitch. Jesse gets the chance to resurrect his career as an American getting too much too fast.

I hope that's not the case. Leeds is fun to watch. Last weekend's game vs Spurs, Spurs jump to a 3-0 lead in the first 30 minutes and then Leeds has a constant barrage of attack that either lacked the last connection or Lloris making a nice save. Spurs had the occasional break that Meslier thwarted but the latter 2/3 of the game was back and forth and really fun to watch. It also had the feel that once Leeds could break the goal drought, there were 2-3 more coming for them.