This is the Republican Party

[drboobay]

If we were willing to send Ukraine billions of dollars in arms after the invasion we should have been willing to send those same arms prior in hopes of preventing the invasion or at the minimum making it much more costly. To answer your question I’m on record in this forum as supporting sending those arms prior to the invasion and I also argued with Aston that the Ukrainians were nothing like the Afghans and would fight until the bitter end when he citing Afghanistan as a reason for not sending weapons. All these conversations were pre invasion and are catalogued on this site

I believe you. Good clear thinking then. Better than mine at the time.

I still think the administration has done well consolidating allied support and bringing the west together. So perhaps not an optimal response but nonetheless with some positive elements.

 

[HuffyCane]

I believe you. Good clear thinking then. Better than mine at the time.

I still think the administration has done well consolidating allied support and bringing the west together. So perhaps not an optimal response but nonetheless with some positive elements.

Biden has led from the back in Europe. it’s easy to unite people, to the extent they are paying attention to you and can understand you, when you let them do press announcing what they are going to contribute then don’t hold them to it when they spend all that money preparing for their own winter energy crisis.

As for the war, a cynic would say the strategy of flipping the script on Putin to put him in a proxy war of occupation instead of us was a good one. The execution of that strategy by a bunch of people who have spent decades in Congress and think tanks is obvious. It’s no secret that neither party’s leadership has had confidence in the judgment of Biden in foreign and military affairs for more than 30 years.

 

[lawpoke87]

Suppose it all gets us back to the fact we are in a proxy war which our side is slowly losing. Ukraine is running out of quality soldiers and basic equipment. Attrition is not on the side of the good guys. Do we keep providing just enough arms to prolong the war in hopes Putin stops advancing in the near future. Will he stop without a cease fire and peace agreement? Will any peace agreement not include language where Russia keeps a majority of the territory they currently occupy? Every end to this conflict I see involves Ukraine making significant concessions. Unless of course the US changed course in its support of Ukraine.

 

[astonmartin708]

why is the war in ukraine resposible for our inflation, supply chain issues, high gas prices?

It is partially responsible because we live in a global market. When Europe boycotts Russian Oil they have to replace that supply from other vendors. One of those vendors is us, meaning our products have more demand and the prices associated with them rise.

Supply chain issues have distinctly more to do with prolonged Covid lockdowns in China.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Context of the two situations:

No serious oil supply in Iraq or Afghanistan. No major supply of grain being cut off and stolen in the US. The whole of Europe & the Western world were not involved in those wars with supplies and sanctions. Russia was not the enemy. Everybody's energy supply on that continent wasn't threatened. Covid didn't just happen. There wasn't already existing supply problems in the entire world. Etc.,etc.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

L E A D E R S H I P!

Yeah, just ignore all things that are completely different about the two situations.

M O R A N!

 

[Gmoney4WW]

like not allowing self employed truckerson certain deliveries,(1) . shutting dowm our oil,(2) payimg people not to work.(3)

Half of this I am repeating for you, because you didn't get it the first time.(or the second)

Item 2:
I and other people have told you, he shut our new oil wells on federal land, which is an incredibly small piece of our production. That wouldn't even come close to making us oil independent. The demand went away during covid, and the oil industry cut production, not the government. I showed you prices pre covid Trump, post covid Trump, and during Biden's administration. You didn't even pay attention, or were unable to comprehend the point.

On top of that, us being oil independent would not reduce the prices for oil. The Europeans would still be shorted Russia's supply, and we and the rest of the world would still be paying high prices because of Europe's shortage. The prices of oil don't go down because American companies are supplying our oil. They go down because there is a large supply of oil for the world.

That is the main reason for the current situation. It was aggravated by other issues, but only aggravated. The world's prices for anything and everything are monumentally effected by energy prices.

Item 1:
I don't know what the heck you are referring to about 'truckerson certain deliveries'.

Item 3:
Paying people not to work is a much more complex argument than you think, and it is a very small part in our current economic situation.

 

[astonmartin708]

Remember when people on this board said some of these precedents were too far to touch ?

"Clarence Thomas writes, in a concurring opinion, that the Supreme Court should reconsider Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell — the rulings that now protect contraception, same-sex relationships, and same-sex marriage."

The only irony is that he didn't include interracial marriage in that list, seeing as it's protecting him and his bat-crap insane wife's marriage and it was decided along the same lines as the laws he wants to strike down.

 

[lawpoke87]

Hate to see Roe overturned. I have been saying for years abortion needs to be codified in a reasonable manner. Neither side will likely allow this. We will now see some states outlaw abortion while others will allow abortion with little to no restrictions. Sadly, there’s no middle left in this country.

 

[URedskin54]

Remember when people on this board said some of these precedents were too far to touch ?

"Clarence Thomas writes, in a concurring opinion, that the Supreme Court should reconsider Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell — the rulings that now protect contraception, same-sex relationships, and same-sex marriage."

The only irony is that he didn't include interracial marriage in that list, seeing as it's protecting him and his bat-crap insane wife's marriage and it was decided along the same lines as the laws he wants to strike down.

That's not what irony means and it's also why I made fun of you

 

[GoldenCaneKC]

Hate to see Roe overturned. I have been saying for years abortion needs to be codified in a reasonable manner. Neither side will likely allow this. We will now see some states outlaw abortion while others will allow abortion with little to no restrictions. Sadly, there’s no middle left in this country.

I’d honestly be interested to hear why you hate to see Roe overturned. Seems like it was bad legal reasoning from the beginning. And Casey was arguably worse.

Plus, it seems to me that Roe being overturned was the only real path forward to any sort of codification of abortion restrictions/rights into law. Now that the Supreme Court has put those issues back into the hands of state and federal legislatures, there will be much more ability and pressure on those institutions to pass laws in this area.

 

[astonmartin708]

That's not what irony means and it's also why I made fun of you

Irony is a black man with a white wife vociferously arguing against the same precedent that protects black men having white wives.

 

[lawpoke87]

I’d honestly be interested to hear why you hate to see Roe overturned. Seems like it was bad legal reasoning from the beginning. And Casey was arguably worse.

Plus, it seems to me that Roe being overturned was the only real path forward to any sort of codification of abortion restrictions/rights into law. Now that the Supreme Court has put those issues back into the hands of state and federal legislatures, there will be much more ability and pressure on those institutions to pass laws in this area.

Roe being overturned will result in extreme abortion laws on both sides of the political spectrum by state legislatures. I’m general against extremist and this decision will result in both sides taking action.

I’m not hopefully of either side reaching any middle ground in this issue. Each is simply too politically and ideologically entrenched. As I said above, I expect states to enact complete bans while others allow no restrictions whatsoever.

 

[URedskin54]

Irony is a black man with a white wife vociferously arguing against the same precedent that protects black men having white wives.

That’s not what you said was ironic. Sometimes I I think I give you too much credit.

 

[drboobay]

Hate to see Roe overturned. I have been saying for years abortion needs to be codified in a reasonable manner. Neither side will likely allow this. We will now see some states outlaw abortion while others will allow abortion with little to no restrictions. Sadly, there’s no middle left in this country.

Tough issue. I believe abortion is morally wrong and this is based on a firm belief that personhood begins at conception.

But I realize this is grounded in my religious values and system of beliefs. Should I compel others by law who may have beliefs that differ? Or rather should I make the moral argument and persuade? Is there a point of viability, pain, or development milestone that we can all agree upon as a legal matter and leave the rest to moral persuasion and reasoning?

It is not a simple issue in any way and today's news does not really solve anything.

 

[drboobay]

The other observation I would have is personal. The older I get the more "liberal" I get, in the sense of being able to appreciate others' situations, perspectives and challenges. 10 years ago I think my position would have been more in line with the Catholic and/or Republican party line on this topic. Politically I am now Independent and hard to imagine that changing.

 

[URedskin54]

Ultimately all laws (aside from some process requirements) are a codification of morality. And all morality (yes even for the atheists) has a metaphysical at least pseudo religious foundation. So for everyone it comes down to where they drawn the line and they feel morally compelled to codify their morality, and in order to do so you must persuade people by making arguments accessible to all faiths and belief systems. Barack Obama had a great speech saying more or less this exact thing. There was plenty I disliked about him but he was at times profound, which is more than you can say for the two guys who have followed him.

 

[astonmartin708]

That’s not what you said was ironic. Sometimes I I think I give you too much credit.

That is exactly what I said was ironic.

 

[astonmartin708]

Ultimately all laws (aside from some process requirements) are a codification of morality. And all morality (yes even for the atheists) has a metaphysical at least pseudo religious foundation. So for everyone it comes down to where they drawn the line and they feel morally compelled to codify their morality, and in order to do so you must persuade people by making arguments accessible to all faiths and belief systems. Barack Obama had a great speech saying more or less this exact thing. There was plenty I disliked about him but he was at times profound, which is more than you can say for the two guys who have followed him.

Woof.

 

[URedskin54]

Woof.

Sorry bud, you’re religious. I know it sucks

 

[astonmartin708]

Sorry bud, you’re religious. I know it sucks

What I mean is that it’s a tyranny of the minority. It should not be the responsibility of the majority to convince the minority what morality society should follow.

 

[drboobay]

We will never, ever all agree on a single moral code.

Instead we muddle through balancing majority opinion and minority rights. Anything else and you end up with theocracy, communism or some other authoritarian system that simply suppresses opposition and puts up a front of consensus. There is rarely true consensus just degrees of agreement.

 

[lawpoke87]

What I mean is that it’s a tyranny of the minority. It should not be the responsibility of the majority to convince the minority what morality society should follow.

Ironic since you believe men should be able to use the same restroom as my 11 year old daughter.

 

[astonmartin708]

Ironic since you believe men should be able to use the same restroom as my 11 year old daughter.

What do you expect transvestites to be doing in a bathroom that will effect your daughter? I honestly don’t care too much about separation at all in bathrooms. People should show respect for other’s privacy in bathrooms no matter what sex the other person is. Your problem is not with men in women’s bathrooms it’s with pedophiles being around your daughter. But you seem to neglect the fact that men can act as pedophiles just as easily in a men’s room around little boys.

All I hear is that you’d prefer people who are sexually attracted to your son’s sex be mandated to use the same bathroom where he will have his genitals out. I think that’s much worse than a drag queen in a girls room.

 

[astonmartin708]

We will never, ever all agree on a single moral code.

Instead we muddle through balancing majority opinion and minority rights. Anything else and you end up with theocracy, communism or some other authoritarian system that simply suppresses opposition and puts up a front of consensus. There is rarely true consensus just degrees of agreement.

It’s not ‘minority rights‘ and ‘majority opinion’ when the minority is dictating the rights of the majority. Minority rights was that no one was forcing the minority to have abortions or fund them.

Where is the protection for the rights of the minority parties in the Republican states btw?

 

[drboobay]

It’s not ‘minority rights‘ and ‘majority opinion’ when the minority is dictating the rights of the majority. Minority rights was that no one was forcing the minority to have abortions or fund them.

Where is the protection for the rights of the minority parties in the Republican states btw?

We are not arguing here really. My points stands regardless of the specific issue or who is the majority.

 

[watu05]

We will never, ever all agree on a single moral code.

Instead we muddle through balancing majority opinion and minority rights. Anything else and you end up with theocracy, communism or some other authoritarian system that simply suppresses opposition and puts up a front of consensus. There is rarely true consensus just degrees of agreement.

The two most recent SCOTUS decisions are steps toward a single moral code and are even at odds with each other in terms of allowing people to make their own decisions. The NY gun decision cancels a reasonable 100 year old law that only requires fewer requirements than those for a driver's license.

Yet cancelling Roe v Waid cancels a woman's right to make decisions with respect to her own body and gives the states the lowest possible bar for any future limitation it chooses to impose. The decision is based on a religious view of personhood and enables the state to impose that view.

Justice Thomas' decision urged the court to apply the same reasoning to gay marriage and other decisions involving the right to privacy. Republicans talk freedom of choice but can't seem to keep themselves out of people's bedrooms or from using the state to impose a largely religious based moral code on poeple's behaviors....except for guns where even mass shootings of school children can be ignored.

It's also sad that in talking heads supporting the cancellation of Roe ignored the financial costs or raising a child and effects of an unwanted pregnancy on a family, particularly the poor. Some promised that there would be more aid for the pregnant (our health care system is already overtaxed ) but not one mentioned support after birth. Will states dramatically increase child support, expand paid child leave, etc? The same states supporting the ban on abortion are also the same one's opposing sex education, unfettered use of contraception and have the highest rates of infant mortality.

 

[lawpoke87]

What do you expect transvestites to be doing in a bathroom that will effect your daughter? I honestly don’t care too much about separation at all in bathrooms. People should show respect for other’s privacy in bathrooms no matter what sex the other person is. Your problem is not with men in women’s bathrooms it’s with pedophiles being around your daughter. But you seem to neglect the fact that men can act as pedophiles just as easily in a men’s room around little boys.

All I hear is that you’d prefer people who are sexually attracted to your son’s sex be mandated to use the same bathroom where he will have his genitals out. I think that’s much worse than a drag queen in a girls room.

I have a problem with a man following my 11 year old daughter into a Target bathroom. My daughter feels extremely uncomfortably walking into a bathroom and seeing a man waiting in there. I don’t have an issue with my son as I can go in the bathroom with him. Suppose I care more about the emotional state of a little girl than I do a grown man. You’re entitled to your minority opinion.

 

[lawpoke87]

Damn.

 

[URedskin54]

The “let’s go teach the rural backward savages a lesson” fantasies never come to pass. Notice this person is suggesting someone else do it

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Damn.

View embedded media

Anecdotal, kinda like some of Shon's stuff. I'm sorry, it bothers me when I see people putting this kinda stuff out there and it spreading fear/anger, whether right or left. And I see a lot more right wing stuff like this than I do left wing. I keep my eye loosely on it, but only loosely. I don't want to give it more gravity than it deserves.

Stuff like this makes the right angrier with the left, so they put something out there that makes the left angrier with the right.(& so on, & so on)

 

[GoldenCaneKC]

Damn.

View embedded media

It’s honestly kinda funny reading that because the guy obviously has no idea how rural communities actually operate.

He thinks that because a town of 2,000 might only have a couple of full-time law enforcement, that the other 1,998 people would just sit around helplessly while their houses are burned and/or they are murdered.

What would actually happen if a BLM/Antifa mob showed up in a small town intent on violence/destruction is that they would get approximately one building set on fire before they were all in the ground being held at gunpoint.

 

[astonmartin708]

I have a problem with a man following my 11 year old daughter into a Target bathroom. My daughter feels extremely uncomfortably walking into a bathroom and seeing a man waiting in there. I don’t have an issue with my son as I can go in the bathroom with him. Suppose I care more about the emotional state of a little girl than I do a grown man. You’re entitled to your minority opinion.

What about when your wife is with your daughter? She can not go into the bathroom with your son... who now has to use the bathroom with men who are sexually attracted to him, and may act strangely to him, or even expose himself to your son.

You think that your daughter feels uncomfortable seeing a man in the bathroom... how do you think your son feels seeing a transvestite in the bathroom, especially if he is young and going in alone?

Again, what you are upset about is not Men using the Women's bathroom. It's pedophiles using any bathroom with children in them. The real problem you have is that YOU can't go in both bathrooms to prevent people acting disrespectfully to either of your children.

Those are two separate issues. If a man who has had surgery and dresses like a woman to the point that it's hard for your daughter to tell that person apart from a woman, is that the point that they should be allowed in the women's bathroom?

 

[astonmartin708]

Anecdotal, kinda like some of Shon's stuff. I'm sorry, it bothers me when I see people putting this kinda stuff out there and it spreading fear/anger, whether right or left. And I see a lot more right wing stuff like this than I do left wing. I keep my eye loosely on it, but only loosely. I don't want to give it more gravity than it deserves.

Stuff like this makes the right angrier with the left, so they put something out there that makes the left angrier with the right.(& so on, & so on)

Reddit is a crazy place. Lots of quacks on both sides, who mainly stick to echo chambers.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

It’s honestly kinda funny reading that because the guy obviously has no idea how rural communities actually operate.

He thinks that because a town of 2,000 might only have a couple of full-time law enforcement, that the other 1,998 people would just sit around helplessly while their houses are burned and/or they are murdered.

What would actually happen if a BLM/Antifa mob showed up in a small town intent on violence/destruction is that they would get approximately one building set on fire before they were all in the ground being held at gunpoint.

That's the stuff that leads to civil war. Hopefully quacks like this guy never actually try to accomplish anything.

 

[lawpoke87]

What about when your wife is with your daughter? She can not go into the bathroom with your son... who now has to use the bathroom with men who are sexually attracted to him, and may act strangely to him, or even expose himself to your son.

You think that your daughter feels uncomfortable seeing a man in the bathroom... how do you think your son feels seeing a transvestite in the bathroom, especially if he is young and going in alone?

Again, what you are upset about is not Men using the Women's bathroom. It's pedophiles using any bathroom with children in them. The real problem you have is that YOU can't go in both bathrooms to prevent people acting disrespectfully to either of your children.

Those are two separate issues. If a man who has had surgery and dresses like a woman to the point that it's hard for your daughter to tell that person apart from a woman, is that the point that they should be allowed in the women's bathroom?

I don’t think my daughter feels u comfortable with men in the womens bathroom. I KNOW my daughter feels uncomfortable with men being in the womens bathroom. Unfortunately, it’s the men who dress like men who create the hostile environment. There are no laws or rules requiring the man to be dressed as a women. This is about little girls feeling threatened because a man insists on using their bathroom. I will always support the child in this instance.

 

[lawpoke87]

Reddit is a crazy place. Lots of quacks on both sides, who mainly stick to echo chambers.

This was on Twitter not Reddit….and not removed. At least for awhile.

 

[watu05]

What about when your wife is with your daughter? She can not go into the bathroom with your son... who now has to use the bathroom with men who are sexually attracted to him, and may act strangely to him, or even expose himself to your son.

You think that your daughter feels uncomfortable seeing a man in the bathroom... how do you think your son feels seeing a transvestite in the bathroom, especially if he is young and going in alone?

Again, what you are upset about is not Men using the Women's bathroom. It's pedophiles using any bathroom with children in them. The real problem you have is that YOU can't go in both bathrooms to prevent people acting disrespectfully to either of your children.

Those are two separate issues. If a man who has had surgery and dresses like a woman to the point that it's hard for your daughter to tell that person apart from a woman, is that the point that they should be allowed in the women's bathroom?

The Tulsa downtown YMCA in the 50's used to forbid wearing swimming suits in the pool. As a junior high AAU swimmer who use to work out there after school during adult swim hours, it took some getting used to.

 

[watu05]

My republican moral belief, and most of those I associate with, still believe in the compass of the Party of Lincoln as the Republican Party should be. Not all of us are right wing nuts, nor are all democrats progressives and socialists.

Agreed. Watching the Jan 6 Committee meetings on TV makes me deeply appreciative of the principled Republicans who put their oaths of office ahead of the unrelenting demands of Donald Trump and the sycophants who attempted to subvert our Constitution. Unfortunately even if Trump finally exits (still a big IF), Trumpism or some version of tribalism is now part of our political fabric.

 

[astonmartin708]

This was on Twitter not Reddit….and not removed. At least for awhile.

It was a twitter clip of a Reddit post. I can tell from the font of the username.