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The State of TU Men's Basketball

nevadanatural said:
In my mind you’re setting up a catch 22. If fans don’t go to games and boosters don’t donate then the school can’t improve the product but the prevailing attitude here seems to be I won’t go or donate until the product improves. That’s similar to the old T-shirt/sign “the beatings will continue until morale improves“.
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I think you have this backwards. It’s not up to fans/boosters to blindly give to an athletic department that is unresponsive. It’s up to the administration to articulate a vision and plan for improving our two major sports that will make people want to give/spend money. This is a prerequisite. A temporary loss in revenue from fan displeasure won’t tank a program. An administration that is unresponsive and makes no effort to reform will.
 
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URedskin54 said:
I think you have this backwards. It’s not up to fans/boosters to blindly give to an athletic department that is unresponsive. It’s up to the administration to articulate a vision and plan for improving our two major sports that will make people want to give/spend money. This is a prerequisite. A temporary loss in revenue from fan displeasure won’t tank a program. An administration that is unresponsive and makes no effort to reform will.
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Somebody needs to create a compelling vision. In an ideal world it would happen on the court and things would just fall in place it would be so obvious. But that approach is obviously failing.

The alternative is to make a compelling case for change that folks can rally behind. Perhaps Rick has done this with a small group of donors but the rest of us remain in the dark, if so.
 
chito_and_leon said:
This is a conundrum faced by millions of companies every year - if you have a burger joint and your grill is old and decrepit and your burgers taste like dirt, you have to decide whether to stick with that grill and watch your sales keep sliding or go out on a limb and invest in a new grill on the hope the customers will come back. But you're very unlikely to buy a better grill if your customers just suck it up and eat your crummy burgers. Does that make a hard decision? Yes. But that's life for many, many business owners. TU can handle it.
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I think that my old classmate Chito provides an excellent analogy here for us with the burger joint. (yes I know I was in grad school and you were an undergrad, and that makes me old, but that's OK).

Let's build on this one. Let's say I used to love GoldenBurgers back in the day and took everyone there and bragged about them far and wide. I have some great memories and would hate to see them fail, but despite several changes in ownership, they have never recaptured that great burger taste. Nevertheless I still try them out from time to time hopefully.

I just heard about the new owners and I'm hopeful again. I've been listening about them getting a new grill and improving the product. I'd love for them to do it but they can't afford it yet. If the owner put together a great business plan on how they could return to GoldenBurger glory, that might be enough for me to buy in and help with the capital improvements. To the general public, the message would be "we are investing in making GoldenBurgers what we all remember or even better! We are beginning with X, then doing Y and then Z - stick with us and you will be rewarded!" Maybe you cannot start with the grill, but start with a new coat of paint. People notice and start believing the owner because they see visible progress. Then come the new tables and chairs, then the new grill. Everyone gets excited again. We all win.

Go GoldenBurger!
 
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goldenhurricane2 said:
Sad thread is sad. 😢
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LOL, it depends on how you look at it. Saying that a few pretty minor changes would have a big impact is a very hopeful message. It's sad because even though a few minor changes would have a big impact, TU still isn't doing them :( it's like how Taylor Swift's dad felt in that 10 minute song on SNL when Jake Gyllenhall didn't even bother to stop by her house on her birthday and he's like why are you dating a loser but of course she still loved him, and it's sad to see people or institutions you love making stupid life decisions. Am I right??
 
chito_and_leon said:
What I don't know - if you donate, does that increase the money available for athletics? Or just reduce the amount spent by the University. In other words, does the admin decide that athletics gets $5m or whatever and they pitch in whatever amount is needed after donations to get up to $5m? Or does TU put in $5m and every donation dollar increases the amount available for athletics? I ask this especially now. I assume usually donations just increase what athletics gets but in these days, I wonder if donations just let the university back handed spend less on athletics and more elsewhere? Same for the conference share of Cincinnati's bowl. Will that help us or just reduce what TU puts in so they can spend more somewhere else?
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Exactly!!! Have no way of knowing which is why my donations have decreased for past two years
 
chito_and_leon said:
LOL, it depends on how you look at it. Saying that a few pretty minor changes would have a big impact is a very hopeful message. It's sad because even though a few minor changes would have a big impact, TU still isn't doing them :( it's like how Taylor Swift's dad felt in that 10 minute song on SNL when Jake Gyllenhall didn't even bother to stop by her house on her birthday and he's like why are you dating a loser but of course she still loved him, and it's sad to see people or institutions you love making stupid life decisions. Am I right??
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No I feel ya - it’s just sad that we are where we are after having so much success. If we would have played our cards right, we could have been what Gonzaga is now. Just goes to show how important it is to have good decision makers at the table during both good times and bad times.
 
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goldenhurricane2 said:
No I feel ya - it’s just sad that we are where we are after having so much success. If we would have played our cards right, we could have been what Gonzaga is now. Just goes to show how important it is to have good decision makers at the table during both good times and bad times.
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Ugh, don't say the G word. My stomach turns whenever I see something about how great they are. Shoulda been us. What's the line, "I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum"...
 
goldenhurricane2 said:
No I feel ya - it’s just sad that we are where we are after having so much success. If we would have played our cards right, we could have been what Gonzaga is now. Just goes to show how important it is to have good decision makers at the table during both good times and bad times.
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Amen!
Seems to me we would have had to make considerably better decisions at the top to be
where they are....We haven't been very significant since 2002-2003..
1) Hiring a coach that wanted to stay here, and pay him enough to make it tough for him
to leave in the early years...
2)Make sure that the courses that successful BB coaches have available for players were being offered......We were up and down on that, and it didn't help...
3) Hire assistants that could recruit to a small private school successfully...Some players prefer that, obviously others don't...It seems under our current coaching staff, we are
always short a key player or two from having a contender....It appears from our first few
games, the same may apply this season...
4) Elevate concentration on marketing strategy...Ours has been on the weak side for the
last several seasons...When the atmosphere at ORU home games is definitely more
upbeat and positive than that at the RenCen for TU's home games, you know that
something has gone terribly wrong....

We have done NONE of the above...Gonzaga has done/does all of them as a matter of
routine....

Seems to me we have literally been "asleep at the wheel"....Results and outcomes are
far from happenstance..They are earned!

"As ye sow..etal"
 
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tu basketball and football are on life support, we need another Nolan Richardson and Steve Kraigthorpe to save the day
 
aTUfan said:
tu basketball and football are on life support, we need another Nolan Richardson and Steve Kraigthorpe to save the day
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They certainly would make a difference....However for their clones to be in place as our
coaches, We would need for the athletic department and the University administration
to be in a far different mind set about what constitutes "success".......
 
I blame it all on Norm Roberts. When we were at the Elite Eight pinnacle and Self left ( no amount of money was going to stop him leaving) then assistant Norm Roberts tried to get the job. Billy Gillispie out of respect for Norm wanted to apply but didn't. If Norm had just gotten out of the way , then one of the nation's top recruiters might have been at the helm immediately. (Judy may have still picked Buzz Peterson) I know bad things occurred later in Billy's career but it we could have had him for three years to keep the recruiting at the Gonzaga level, (and he would have) then we would have had a chance to establish a permanency of high achievement.
 
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chito_and_leon said:
Ugh, don't say the G word. My stomach turns whenever I see something about how great they are. Shoulda been us. What's the line, "I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum"...
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"You coulda been another Billy Conn."
 
This is an interesting thread. I have lived in Tulsa for 51 years. I came here in 1970 for law school and stayed. I was a part-time TU fan through the 1970s and attended a few games at the Fairgrounds. I became full-time in 1980 when Nolan Richardson came to town. Those five years were magical. The entire city appeared to be wrapped up in TU Basketball. The Convention Center was normally sold out. TU won some big games during that time: Louisville, Purdue, OU, Wichita State etc. My entire family became addicted to the program. My wife, daughter and later youngest son went to the games. We went out of town to NCAA Tournament games and to away games that were close. We even "adopted" Coach David Bales and brought him to the NCAA Tournament games. I supported the Hurricane Club for 40 years and still do. I have gone from a Gold Parking Pass to a Blue and now a Red one. I do not use the Red pass because it is easier to park in the neighborhood across 11th Street. I have also gone from 4 season tickets to one. My daughter died in 1992 and I dropped her ticket, my wife died in 2013 and I dropped her ticket. My youngest son lives with me and he is interested in TU sports but he is agoraphobic and does not want to deal with crowds. I have explained to him that there are usually not crowds at the TU games but he stays at home. I send him text messages with the scores at the media time outs. I still go to the games by myself because it is something that I have done for over 40 years, I like live sporting events and I go to about 100 live games each year. TU Football, Basketball (Men and Women) and Drillers. I go to some Pittsburgh Pirates and Pitt games when I am in Pennsylvania and Arizona Diamondbacks games when I am there.

Some people say it is all about winning and that fans will support a winning team. I do not know if that is true today. It was obviously true in 1980 when Tulsa started to win on a larger scale then before. I do not think winning last year has greatly improved ORU's attendance. There are too many other things going on today that take away from live sporting events. There are many more games on television, streaming etc. There are also other sources of entertainment like BOK Concerts, the OKC Thunder and the Indian Casinos.

The home win against Oregon State this year was exciting. I do not think however, that it is going to bring in great numbers of fans.

I will be at the Reynolds Center tonight in Section 113. Sometimes I am the only one in my row.
 
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I'm in section 113. When I go, am usually the only one in my row. (Taking care of someone elderly who fell, so don't always go.).

Someone was there when NSU played. Was a family 👪 member and friends of one of the players for NSU.
 
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chito_and_leon said:
Ugh, don't say the G word. My stomach turns whenever I see something about how great they are. Shoulda been us. What's the line, "I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum"...
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Great scene from a really good flick.....Also a good analogy of where we could have
been but for the "except for" clouds always getting in the way.....The thing you have to
give credit for is the time frame in which Gonzaga has done it's magic....It is ongoing!!
They keep on "keepin' on".....

On the other side of the mountain, meanwhile, We seem to have always taken the
path of least resistance in hiring our coaches since 2000, and probably have gotten
what we have deserved....There has been very little thought or activity concerning
the long term success of the program.....So, we are where we are, and no one seems
to really know where that is!

Hopefully, as we crazies say, there are better days ahead.....
 
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I was in Section 113 Row G. I was not the only one in the row., however. There were three people, a man with two young boys who sat to my right. On my left were four young women. I believe that they were members of the women's soccer team. None of them belonged in the seats. I know the people on the left and right of me and they were not there. It was nice to have people in the row, however.

As for the game, one of my Facebook friends commented that it was a dismal affair. I agreed and told him that Loyola Marymount must have combined teams with Loyola of Chicago, Loyola of Maryland and Loyola of New Orleans.
 
The crowd looked bad on TV. But, to be fair, it usually does.

Not sure when/if this gets better. 3 out of our last 4 non-conference opponents are good enough to beat us.
 
TU Pablo Jr said:
"You coulda been another Billy Conn."
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He did stay with Joe for 13 as I remember.....I listened to the fight..I would be nine
yrs. old that August.....Joe Louis fights were mandated listening on our old dry
cell battery radio for the whole family....We lived at the end of a dirt road in Polk
County, Ark...
 
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seniorgolfer said:
He did stay with Joe for 13 as I remember.....I listened to the fight.....
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Conn was the Light Heavy Weight Champ battling Joe Louis, the Heavy Weight Champ. Conn was leading on points after 12 rounds. His corner told him to continue to dance around and he would win the fight. Conn went for the knockout and in turn was knocked out. That fight was in June 1941 before WWII. The promoters scheduled a second fight. Prior to the second fight Conn got into a fist fight with his father in law at his first son's Baptism. Conn socked his in law in the jaw and broke his own hand. The second fight was off. WWII intervened and both Conn and Louis went into the Army. In 1946 they had the long awaited rematch and it was like the TU-Loyola Marymount game. Louis won.

After losing the first fight Conn told the reporters "What do you expect, I'm Irish." Note, I am 64% Irish

. My dad grew up in the same Pittsburgh neighborhood as Billy Conn and Gene Kelly.

I met Billy Conn several times with my Uncle and Art Rooney, founder of the Steelers. Mr. Rooney was at the Baptism as the god father to Conn's son.
 
I have been like many of you since 1979... My father walked to games since he lived in the neighborhood across 11th 55 years ago. We have seen TU, USFL, NASL (Roughnecks), and one New Kids on the Block concert (don't ask) in Skelly Stadium. I was thrown out of games in the Civic Center because as a band member the refs could hear me. Original DonRey donor, ticket holder, etc.

No more GHC, no more basketball season tickets, kids went to other schools. I have one Football season ticket and it is for my father. When he cannot go anymore, I am done with that one.

Those running TU have broken my heart and I think I have finally realized none of them care. The do not deserve the jobs they have done poorly in. But I find myself realizing I don't care anymore.
 
TulsaAM said:
I have been like many of you since 1979... My father walked to games since he lived in the neighborhood across 11th 55 years ago. We have seen TU, USFL, NASL (Roughnecks), and one New Kids on the Block concert (don't ask) in Skelly Stadium. I was thrown out of games in the Civic Center because as a band member the refs could hear me. Original DonRey donor, ticket holder, etc.

No more GHC, no more basketball season tickets, kids went to other schools. I have one Football season ticket and it is for my father. When he cannot go anymore, I am done with that one.

Those running TU have broken my heart and I think I have finally realized none of them care. The do not deserve the jobs they have done poorly in. But I find myself realizing I don't care anymore.
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How the hell does our alma mater become so friggin tone deaf? Pisses me off... TU was a PROUD institution academically and on the field when I was a kid in the 80s and early 90s... Now we have redneck Monty, cock cockson as our AD and a pathetic administration that doesn't know its a$$ from a hole in the wall.
 
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Basketball still there for the taking. You want to know how OU knew everything the Hogs were going to do and every weakness? One of the reasons was that OU hired Assistant Head Coach David Patrick who was at Arkansas last year.
 
We have little residual tradition to build on at this point having squandered the goodwill and reputation we had built.

So we are starting over for sure. Hope we can muster the will to do it.
 
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