The State of TU Men's Basketball

[drboobay]

I have been thinking about this all evening and wanted to get it out into the open. Those of you who have been on this board for the long haul know that I am actually pretty optimistic by nature. When it comes to watching TU sports I've always approached it with the attitude that anything can happen and we can always win on any given day. I like to give coaches a long leash to prove themselves before bagging on them too much.

My mindset for TU men's basketball was formed starting in 1980. I've enjoyed great things like watching Nolan's team beat Billy at the Civic Center, our first NIT championship run at the Mabee Center, following the team to NCAA tourney games, and sitting in the stands for our Elite 8 game that was oh so close. So the level of performance, engagement and competitive edge is how I see TU basketball and I've always been hopeful we are just around the corner from regaining that. It's what keeps things interesting and engaging.

Tonight though I have been reflecting on the past 18 years, and that all the students who have come through TU and all of the younger members of the Tulsa community have no memory of what I noted in my paragraph above. It is unrealistic for me to have this view that better days are right around the corner and that we are a basketball school just waiting to reemerge. It's too late. The best we can hope for considering the current situation is lighting in a bottle once every decade or two because it is clear that we no longer have winning ambition at the highest level. It is sobering and painful to say this out loud and I know many will say I've been fooling myself for a long, long time. But at some point, even the most optimistic person can't keep being optimistic.

I dropped the GHC membership this year. Next year I'm dropping most but not all my tickets. I suspect further down the line I will drop all my tickets.

Chris need not worry as long as he wants to run the message board because this is probably the last thing would drop, my membership in the Alley and on this board. Despite the squabbles and differing opinions, at least this is a place to be heard. And I really appreciate that Chris. I don't think the TU administration is listening, but I know that folks here are listening and many have a similar history with the program as I have.

I wish I had something else positive to say. Perhaps I will leave things this evening by repeating something I've posted many times, which is I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

 

[TU 1978]

Frank’s attitude is the non conference season is when you figure out how the pieces of the team work together to optimize it for the conference run. You should know that by now.

 

[I.I.]

I have been thinking about this all evening and wanted to get it out into the open. Those of you who have been on this board for the long haul know that I am actually pretty optimistic by nature. When it comes to watching TU sports I've always approached it with the attitude that anything can happen and we can always win on any given day. I like to give coaches a long leash to prove themselves before bagging on them too much.

My mindset for TU men's basketball was formed starting in 1980. I've enjoyed great things like watching Nolan's team beat Billy at the Civic Center, our first NIT championship run at the Mabee Center, following the team to NCAA tourney games, and sitting in the stands for our Elite 8 game that was oh so close. So the level of performance, engagement and competitive edge is how I see TU basketball and I've always been hopeful we are just around the corner from regaining that. It's what keeps things interesting and engaging.

Tonight though I have been reflecting on the past 18 years, and that all the students who have come through TU and all of the younger members of the Tulsa community have no memory of what I noted in my paragraph above. It is unrealistic for me to have this view that better days are right around the corner and that we are a basketball school just waiting to reemerge. It's too late. The best we can hope for considering the current situation is lighting in a bottle once every decade or two because it is clear that we no longer have winning ambition at the highest level. It is sobering and painful to say this out loud and I know many will say I've been fooling myself for a long, long time. But at some point, even the most optimistic person can't keep being optimistic.

I dropped the GHC membership this year. Next year I'm dropping most but not all my tickets. I suspect further down the line I will drop all my tickets.

Chris need not worry as long as he wants to run the message board because this is probably the last thing would drop, my membership in the Alley and on this board. Despite the squabbles and differing opinions, at least this is a place to be heard. And I really appreciate that Chris. I don't think the TU administration is listening, but I know that folks here are listening and many have a similar history with the program as I have.

I wish I had something else positive to say. Perhaps I will leave things this evening by repeating something I've posted many times, which is I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

I’ve been right there with you all the same years. Really good post.

 

[Chris Harmon]

Chris need not worry as long as he wants to run the message board because this is probably the last thing would drop, my membership in the Alley and on this board. Despite the squabbles and differing opinions, at least this is a place to be heard. And I really appreciate that Chris. I don't think the TU administration is listening, but I know that folks here are listening and many have a similar history with the program as I have.

 

[Gold*]

I still get our season tickets. For years my family would drop what it was doing and all go to the games, no questions asked and without any scheduling. It’s just what we did. This year no one has asked me about going to a game.

The whole thing is just weird right now. GHC screwed up our parking passes but I don’t care enough to ask them for them. I watch the games and care, but there’s other life stuff that is more important.

I just don’t see this team getting any better although I like some of the individual pieces quite a bit. I don’t really get down when we lose. Maybe that’s maturity or maybe it’s apathy. Or both? I have been killing it at work, but there’s a trade off with that. Instead of going to the Mayor’s cup, I spent the night with my family to celebrate the end of a big case that put us all through a lot of crap. That stuff matters more than a team that strategically doesn’t defend the current offensive trends in the sport.

I suspect Haith will win a game or two he shouldn’t, but we’ve seen this play out so many times. We will have a deeply flawed team that has to play perfectly to win and they will do that several times.

In the Phillips and early Wojcik eras, it felt like a crime had occurred and that this great program was going to get its mojo back. We deserved to be good end we were eventually pretty darn close to being good again a couple of times. Every loss was a personal insult, even when most of us figured out Wojcik wasn’t the answer. We still would best pretty good teams, we just didn’t play with an offense that made any sense at all. The Manning years were a ton of fun, though, and it was this fun thing to follow that team. By buddies would go to games if my family couldn’t and the staff was really appreciative of our humor. They even came up and said nice things in El Paso. I think they were surprised we came.

This feels so different. It’s like someone else runs the thing and there’s a game you can go to if you want, but it’s their program and their rules, ranging from the weird closing off of the area behind the bench to how every little detail is handled. I go to the games, but there not much emotion or cheering. It’s not really our team. Someone else calls the shots. All of the good basketball minds on here wanted a change and the university looked down on that. Bruce even called it out on the radio. There’s just this giant gap right now between what the diehard fans want and expect and what the school is doing. The school still throws a lot of money at this, but they don’t seem to care if it’s well spent. Or if we show up and have fun.

 

[Weatherdemon]

We used to go to every football and basketball that wasn’t scheduled over kids events.

A lot of times we showed up at halftime when the kids sports were done.

I used to show up at the tailgate for morning games at 5-6am to drop tables off since they were such asses but letting us do that 4 hours before kick off.

When we lived by TU, we trudged through mud, snowpack, ice, 10 degree temps, whatever, to go to games.

We went to 2 football game this year and could realistically have attended 4.

I’ve been to 4 basketball games in 3 years.
Fortunately, one of those was the WSU game when Joiner hit the 3.

Hank and I’s tailgate has about 1/2 or less of the attendance it used to.

It’s harder to motivate for mediocrity with little hope of improvements.
Its certainly much harder than going to watch a terrible team when things look like they will improve.

 

[Weatherdemon]

We also used to be loudest people one our sides of the stands/arena.

Now, to Golds point, we basically just watch and cheer the good plays…
We became what we hated before

 

['Cane-man]

If Rick Dickson and other members of the Star Chamber don't recognize the malaise among even the most die-hard supporters, it's by their own choice.

I actually forgot about the game until I saw the "Game Thoughts" thread in the Alley this morning. That would have never happened in the past. I haven't lost too many brain cells yet; the games just aren't as high of a priority.

 

[drboobay]

I am really thirsty for someone in a leadership role to come out and say "TU basketball is about winning championships and NCAA tournament success. We have a plan of x, y and z to insure we get back there and will insure accountability to accomplish this plan."

Barring this kind of statement we all have to assume the past is the past, and that "being competitive" is what we are all about now. Fans should run with this assumption IMO until we hear publicly (not only via Huffy, who by the way I greatly value on this board) otherwise.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I have been thinking about this all evening and wanted to get it out into the open. Those of you who have been on this board for the long haul know that I am actually pretty optimistic by nature. When it comes to watching TU sports I've always approached it with the attitude that anything can happen and we can always win on any given day. I like to give coaches a long leash to prove themselves before bagging on them too much.

My mindset for TU men's basketball was formed starting in 1980. I've enjoyed great things like watching Nolan's team beat Billy at the Civic Center, our first NIT championship run at the Mabee Center, following the team to NCAA tourney games, and sitting in the stands for our Elite 8 game that was oh so close. So the level of performance, engagement and competitive edge is how I see TU basketball and I've always been hopeful we are just around the corner from regaining that. It's what keeps things interesting and engaging.

Tonight though I have been reflecting on the past 18 years, and that all the students who have come through TU and all of the younger members of the Tulsa community have no memory of what I noted in my paragraph above. It is unrealistic for me to have this view that better days are right around the corner and that we are a basketball school just waiting to reemerge. It's too late. The best we can hope for considering the current situation is lighting in a bottle once every decade or two because it is clear that we no longer have winning ambition at the highest level. It is sobering and painful to say this out loud and I know many will say I've been fooling myself for a long, long time. But at some point, even the most optimistic person can't keep being optimistic.

I dropped the GHC membership this year. Next year I'm dropping most but not all my tickets. I suspect further down the line I will drop all my tickets.

Chris need not worry as long as he wants to run the message board because this is probably the last thing would drop, my membership in the Alley and on this board. Despite the squabbles and differing opinions, at least this is a place to be heard. And I really appreciate that Chris. I don't think the TU administration is listening, but I know that folks here are listening and many have a similar history with the program as I have.

I wish I had something else positive to say. Perhaps I will leave things this evening by repeating something I've posted many times, which is I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

I honestly feel this way about the university as a whole ever since the disastrous TU Plan rollout. It's like you have a friend who goes to a different city for college and the next time you see him, he's in hari krishna robes in the airport lobby begging for money and talking about your prana and chi. Somewhere along the way, TU became something that I don't know what it is and don't recognize.

Before, even during the long spells of hopelessness like years 4 - 7 of Doug, we knew we all had the same goal and there was hope in the future - work out way out of this loser contract and then try again to be excellent. I'm not sure we share that goal with the administration now. I honestly couldn't tell you what their definition of "success" in MBB and FB looks like. Though it sure seems like it's not the same as my idea of success. But who knows really?

 

[loca2874]

I know I have ranted on here before about several items and about the fan base. I generally try to keep my comments to myself if they are negative in nature and only try to put a positive spin on things. To those who don’t just get on here to bash the team or the coach, I hear you and even though I don’t want to sometimes, I agree with some of it. I am sad about the losses that should have been wins and I am cool with the losses that were just inevitable. I also run around like a lunatic when we win a game at the buzzer or kick a field goal at the end to win the game.


I have been a fan of Football and Basketball for over 35 years. My father would take me to the Civic Center to watch basketball games when I was a wee lad. To put it in perspective I am currently 47 and that old guy is 70. I don’t live in Tulsa anymore since I joined the Marines in 1998. I currently live in Virginia and work in DC. Anytime there is a game out this way, my carcass is there. My wife took a video of me at the TU vs Navy game in Annapolis, MD a couple years ago of me standing up and cheering on the team. The caption she put on there was "The only fan for miles". I bring that same energy to every game I attend. I don’t do it for the Alumni. To be perfectly honest with you most of the Alumni I have met are a bunch of asshats and I want nothing to do with them after spending 2 minutes having a conversation. I am not saying all of them are but most of the ones that have darkened my path are.

Weatherdemon and Gold made a strong point. We have to remember this is a game. There are other things going on that are more important than this game and these teams. Over the last two years if you haven’t learned that then I feel real sorry for you and that is genuine and not trying to take a stab at anyone. I have season tickets to the Washington Football Team. I will be at every game unless I am dying (for men that means sick) lol. I did not attend one home game this year because my wife wanted to go on a trip to New York. I did not complain one time because that trip meant more for my family than it did for me to miss that game.

You put out there that the teams haven’t performed in the last couple of years and I absolutely disagree. The 2019-2020 season we were 21-10 and 13-5 and then COVID ended our season at the start of the tournament that we were a 3 seed in. We had a really good team that year and we could have one at least one game before we played either Wichita State or Cincinnati in the next game. This was also the year that we lost Curran Scott, a good 3-point shooter to Charlotte. We play hard enough we could have got an at large that year. Last year was not good for any team due to COVID restrictions. I will not put last year’s play on anyone even the coach. We are 8 games into this year with a vastly different team than we had the last couple of seasons. Some have been bashing the team since the second game. Come on, really? if that is what you bring then please go somewhere else. Frustration is one thing but some have convicted everyone already.

I am fully with people being upset with losing and not wanting to attend or spend money or any of that. That is a personal decision that you have to make. I hate to break it to most of you, but at the end of the day, the coaching staff and the players do not know you. When they leave, they will not look back and say "I really want to know what Loca2874 is thinking or cares about". Not a single one will do that. I am bringing that energy to every game win or lose. Why? I am a fan and that is what I do. I will represent this team wherever I go. I have my hoodies and my hats that I wear places. I talk smack to the UCF alumni across the street.

I will be at the ECU game in February because my wife said I could only go to one of ECU or Temple and I said "OK boss lady" like a good husband does lol. I am still going to try and talk her into a family trip to Philly and then see if I can be allowed to go. That said, I will be yelling from the rafters, like I always do.

The state of TU Basketball is growing and learning. Lots of new pieces and a few, KES, that we would be good see leave the team. I am optimistic that we will have it together come conference time and make some noise with conference play. We still have some great games in non-Conference to play with Loyola Marymount and Colorado State. We also have 2 neutral court games coming up, which are good NET games to play, in Colorado State and North Texas. Will these 4 games hurt us? maybe. As I see it the magic number for us is 24 wins. That means we can lose 3 more games and get that without the Conference tournament. The more we lose past 7 losses the more Conference Tourney games we need to win.

Those are my thoughts and my thoughts alone.

 

[chito_and_leon]

We used to go to every football and basketball that wasn’t scheduled over kids events.

A lot of times we showed up at halftime when the kids sports were done.

I used to show up at the tailgate for morning games at 5-6am to drop tables off since they were such asses but letting us do that 4 hours before kick off.

When we lived by TU, we trudged through mud, snowpack, ice, 10 degree temps, whatever, to go to games.

We went to 2 football game this year and could realistically have attended 4.

I’ve been to 4 basketball games in 3 years.
Fortunately, one of those was the WSU game when Joiner hit the 3.

Hank and I’s tailgate has about 1/2 or less of the attendance it used to.

It’s harder to motivate for mediocrity with little hope of improvements.
Its certainly much harder than going to watch a terrible team when things look like they will improve.

Yep. I keep thinking "if the school doesn't care, why should I care?" Anyone with kids knows this, you can't make them do things, you just gotta accept that they're not going to care about the things you care about and you're just going to make yourself miserable if you keep trying. Just accept that it's not going to happen and move on. I feel that way alot towards TU now, I can't make them care.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I know I have ranted on here before about several items and about the fan base. I generally try to keep my comments to myself if they are negative in nature and only try to put a positive spin on things. To those who don’t just get on here to bash the team or the coach, I hear you and even though I don’t want to sometimes, I agree with some of it. I am sad about the losses that should have been wins and I am cool with the losses that were just inevitable. I also run around like a lunatic when we win a game at the buzzer or kick a field goal at the end to win the game.


I have been a fan of Football and Basketball for over 35 years. My father would take me to the Civic Center to watch basketball games when I was a wee lad. To put it in perspective I am currently 47 and that old guy is 70. I don’t live in Tulsa anymore since I joined the Marines in 1998. I currently live in Virginia and work in DC. Anytime there is a game out this way, my carcass is there. My wife took a video of me at the TU vs Navy game in Annapolis, MD a couple years ago of me standing up and cheering on the team. The caption she put on there was "The only fan for miles". I bring that same energy to every game I attend. I don’t do it for the Alumni. To be perfectly honest with you most of the Alumni I have met are a bunch of asshats and I want nothing to do with them after spending 2 minutes having a conversation. I am not saying all of them are but most of the ones that have darkened my path are.

Weatherdemon and Gold made a strong point. We have to remember this is a game. There are other things going on that are more important than this game and these teams. Over the last two years if you haven’t learned that then I feel real sorry for you and that is genuine and not trying to take a stab at anyone. I have season tickets to the Washington Football Team. I will be at every game unless I am dying (for men that means sick) lol. I did not attend one home game this year because my wife wanted to go on a trip to New York. I did not complain one time because that trip meant more for my family than it did for me to miss that game.

You put out there that the teams haven’t performed in the last couple of years and I absolutely disagree. The 2019-2020 season we were 21-10 and 13-5 and then COVID ended our season at the start of the tournament that we were a 3 seed in. We had a really good team that year and we could have one at least one game before we played either Wichita State or Cincinnati in the next game. This was also the year that we lost Curran Scott, a good 3-point shooter to Charlotte. We play hard enough we could have got an at large that year. Last year was not good for any team due to COVID restrictions. I will not put last year’s play on anyone even the coach. We are 8 games into this year with a vastly different team than we had the last couple of seasons. Some have been bashing the team since the second game. Come on, really? if that is what you bring then please go somewhere else. Frustration is one thing but some have convicted everyone already.

I am fully with people being upset with losing and not wanting to attend or spend money or any of that. That is a personal decision that you have to make. I hate to break it to most of you, but at the end of the day, the coaching staff and the players do not know you. When they leave, they will not look back and say "I really want to know what Loca2874 is thinking or cares about". Not a single one will do that. I am bringing that energy to every game win or lose. Why? I am a fan and that is what I do. I will represent this team wherever I go. I have my hoodies and my hats that I wear places. I talk smack to the UCF alumni across the street.

I will be at the ECU game in February because my wife said I could only go to one of ECU or Temple and I said "OK boss lady" like a good husband does lol. I am still going to try and talk her into a family trip to Philly and then see if I can be allowed to go. That said, I will be yelling from the rafters, like I always do.

The state of TU Basketball is growing and learning. Lots of new pieces and a few, KES, that we would be good see leave the team. I am optimistic that we will have it together come conference time and make some noise with conference play. We still have some great games in non-Conference to play with Loyola Marymount and Colorado State. We also have 2 neutral court games coming up, which are good NET games to play, in Colorado State and North Texas. Will these 4 games hurt us? maybe. As I see it the magic number for us is 24 wins. That means we can lose 3 more games and get that without the Conference tournament. The more we lose past 7 losses the more Conference Tourney games we need to win.

Those are my thoughts and my thoughts alone.

This is an excellent post and a great attitude. But I would respectfully submit two points - (a) if you accept crap, you'll continue to get crap, change rarely happens on its own, or at least not positive change; and (b) the vast majority of people who watch TU games don't have your attitude and don't even bother to come on here and post, they just stop watching, and that creates a vicious cycle leading down, down, down. The world needs all types, the people who are positive through everything and the change makers. I fear we don't have enough of either, just the people who slip away.

 

[loca2874]

This is an excellent post and a great attitude. But I would respectfully submit two points - (a) if you accept crap, you'll continue to get crap, change rarely happens on its own, or at least not positive change; and (b) the vast majority of people who watch TU games don't have your attitude and don't even bother to come on here and post, they just stop watching, and that creates a vicious cycle leading down, down, down. The world needs all types, the people who are positive through everything and the change makers. I fear we don't have enough of either, just the people who slip away.

Absolutely agree with both of your points. Change only comes with misery. With that change though if you expect a National championship then you are on a whole other state of narcotics. Lol. When you get that change it’s time to rebuild on what you have.

I forgot to mention this earlier but something was brought up I believe on what former players would think. We have 3 former players on this staff and one calling the games. I can guarantee those guys wanted to win those games just as much if not more than we did. Shea is from Tulsa. He went to McClain High if I remember correctly. That man, I guarantee is ALL IN. The staff cares what goes on.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Absolutely agree with both of your points. Change only comes with misery. With that change though if you expect a National championship then you are on a whole other state of narcotics. Lol. When you get that change it’s time to rebuild on what you have.

I forgot to mention this earlier but something was brought up I believe on what former players would think. We have 3 former players on this staff and one calling the games. I can guarantee those guys wanted to win those games just as much if not more than we did. Shea is from Tulsa. He went to McClain High if I remember correctly. That man, I guarantee is ALL IN. The staff cares what goes on.

Agree 1000% on us needing to be realistic. to the good dr's point, it would be nice if the school would tell us what "realistic" means these days.

I absolutely think the people "on the front lines", players, coaches, etc., are 110% focused on doing everything they can to win.

I'm not even sure the admin above them feels differently about winning, I suspect they like winning and don't like losing. But for them it's all about priorities - do they like winning enough to commit to making it happen? it's like my kid, he values getting As and it's definitely a goal for him, but it's not enough of a priority for him to put down his video games to make it happen. I don't know what the administration's equivalent of my kid's video games is but I think it's there. Sadly I can't just change the wifi password to force the admin to focus on athletics for a few hours.....

 

[loca2874]

Agree 1000% on us needing to be realistic. to the good dr's point, it would be nice if the school would tell us what "realistic" means these days.

I absolutely think the people "on the front lines", players, coaches, etc., are 110% focused on doing everything they can to win.

I'm not even sure the admin above them feels differently about winning, I suspect they like winning and don't like losing. But for them it's all about priorities - do they like winning enough to commit to making it happen? it's like my kid, he values getting As and it's definitely a goal for him, but it's not enough of a priority for him to put down his video games to make it happen. I don't know what the administration's equivalent of my kid's video games is but I think it's there. Sadly I can't just change the wifi password to force the admin to focus on athletics for a few hours.....

We on the same wavelength here my friend.

 

[TUMU]

A lot of good points in this topic.
I'll keep mine short.
Basketball season tickets back to 97-98 season and attended most games back to when Tubby took over.
I upgraded my season ticket this season to mid court, close to the court. Haven't missed a non exhibition game yet. But I see myelf choosing not to attend some upcoming games if too tired, need to spend the time on work stuff, cold outside, 8pm tip-off, etc.
Don't have the interest I use to have.

 

[nevadanatural]

If I lived in the Tulsa area still I would have basketball season tickets as long as I could drag my old ass to the arena. I left Reno at 7 AM yesterday for a 7 hour trip to Boise. I watched an exciting basketball game, spent the night at my hotel then left at 6:30 AM Reno time this morning to drive back. To put this in perspective I seldom drag my retired butt out of bed before 9 AM. I had a great time and if they come out here again I’ll do the same. I’ve missed two TU basketball games played played west of the Rockies in the 23 years I’ve lived here and that was a tournament that spanned Thanksgiving or Christmas one and after missing Christmas for a similar tournament a couple of years before we thought it was more important to have Christmas dinner for our friends. In the 19-20 season loca was talking about I was thinking of driving to Ft. Worth for the conference tournament because I thought we would show up well and maybe win it. I dropped my plans when the virus was making a lot of events iffy. You can be whatever kind of fan you want to be but that’s the kind of fan I am. I’ll keep making my GHC contributions because nothing ever improves with less money and I’ll keep attending TU basketball games when it’s physically and financially feasible.

 

[drboobay]

Frank’s attitude is the non conference season is when you figure out how the pieces of the team work together to optimize it for the conference run. You should know that by now.

Yes for sure. I'm not referring to any specific season, but rather stepping back and assessing where we are in the arc of the men's basketball program's history. I also agree that winning must be important to the players and coaches and that the administration would rather win than lose. But I also think they probably feel like it's OK to go along in the top half of the AAC winning some games against top 25 competition.

I also think frame of reference is really important here. I'm a victim of very high expectations based on how and why I became interested in TU basketball. Perhaps the 25 year old fan does not have the baggage of high expectations for TU basketball and such a person would be just fine with 17-13, 13-17, 16-14, etc. Maybe a CBI invitation.

Buy contrast I never had the same level of expectation for Tulsa football. Don't get me wrong - I think we can do better, but I am not EXPECTING national championship playoffs and regular national prominence.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The hard thing in challenging times like this is remembering that there is no right way or wrong way, no better way or worse way, to be a fan. The "optimist" fans tend to get frustrated with the "realistic" fans for being too negative. The realist fans get frustrated with the optimist fans for being supportive of unacceptable performance. But the problem isn't that the optimist fans are too optimistic or that the realistic fans are too realistic, and it's not even that the "not there anymore" fans are not there anymore. The problem is that the administration tolerates and rewards mediocrity. So we should all be thankful for the fans we have left, no matter how they express their fandom, and train our fire if we have any on the administration. A better team makes a lot of problems go away.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Yep. I keep thinking "if the school doesn't care, why should I care?" Anyone with kids knows this, you can't make them do things, you just gotta accept that they're not going to care about the things you care about and you're just going to make yourself miserable if you keep trying. Just accept that it's not going to happen and move on. I feel that way alot towards TU now, I can't make them care.

My youngest, who has played football for 10 years and DPOG and co-POG for Owasso’s first game this year, decided to stop coming to TU games 3 years ago because “they’re not fun.”

My oldest is a sophomore at TU and has been 2 games but, he’s not a football fan. And granted, COVID was a big player his freshman year.

He had a great time at the Tulane comeback saying, “Now I know why you guys love football!”
But, went to the home opener this year didn’t come back.

Programs grow on success.
Fans increase with success (usually.)
Kids want to be a part of a successful team in any way possible.

Programs don’t grow on accepted mediocrity.
Fans become apathetic to accepted mediocrity.
Kids want little to do with accepted mediocrity.

I think both premier programs could improve with the current HC’s if they had the right staff.
Monty needs a freaking OC.
Haith, needs either a great offensive mind or a great defensive mind to direct those aspects of the game.

Neither of the above are expensive options for TU but, it feels the ROI on these minor investments would be 5-10 fold per season.

 

[loca2874]

I think both premier programs could improve with the current HC’s if they had the right staff.
Monty needs a freaking OC.
Haith, needs either a great offensive mind or a great defensive mind to direct those aspects of the game.

Neither of the above are expensive options for TU but, it feels the ROI on these minor investments would be 5-10 fold per season.

This part right here

 

[rusty-c]

Frank’s attitude is the non conference season is when you figure out how the pieces of the team work together to optimize it for the conference run. You should know that by now.

Maybe he should let the Selection Committee in on that secret.

 

[red dirt]

Haith is too concerned with listening to the guy who is constantly in his ear and employing his son to sit right next to him. How about listening to the assistants instead of those two?

 

[TULOYAL]

My youngest, who has played football for 10 years and DPOG and co-POG for Owasso’s first game this year, decided to stop coming to TU games 3 years ago because “they’re not fun.”

My oldest is a sophomore at TU and has been 2 games but, he’s not a football fan. And granted, COVID was a big player his freshman year.

He had a great time at the Tulane comeback saying, “Now I know why you guys love football!”
But, went to the home opener this year didn’t come back.

Programs grow on success.
Fans increase with success (usually.)
Kids want to be a part of a successful team in any way possible.

Programs don’t grow on accepted mediocrity.
Fans become apathetic to accepted mediocrity.
Kids want little to do with accepted mediocrity.

I think both premier programs could improve with the current HC’s if they had the right staff.
Monty needs a freaking OC.
Haith, needs either a great offensive mind or a great defensive mind to direct those aspects of the game.

Neither of the above are expensive options for TU but, it feels the ROI on these minor investments would be 5-10 fold per season.

Good post Weather but I disagree with one point. Montgomery doesn't need an OC, he is an OC, just not a head coach. He needs a HC to keep him from doing the stupid things with personnel and clock management. Let PM call plays but there needs to be a firm veto for the stupid stuff he pulls now and then. I really do think he has a good offensive mind and could put up good numbers with a good head coach to keep him reigned in. Unfortunately, that will never happen at TU but his next job should be as an OC under a smart HC.

 

[tufan56]

I hate to say this, but going to the ORU game the other night reminded me of how it felt to have fun at a college basketball game. It being a close game helped, I think, but it couldn’t have been more different than the apathetic atmosphere we have at the Reynolds Center these days. It really bummed me out.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

This is probably the most thoughtful thread on the free board in a long time. A complete venting session. I’m here for all y’all! MU and Gold knew I was going through some personal crap back in the Woj era. So big shout out to them for tolerating me. That douche of a coach led me to step away and not care so much. And I’ve never had the enthusiasm since. I still want to fight Wojcik. Call me!!!1

 

[drboobay]

This is probably the most thoughtful thread on the free board in a long time. A complete venting session. I’m here for all y’all! MU and Gold knew I was going through some personal crap back in the Woj era. So big shout out to them for tolerating me. That douche of a coach led me to step away and not care so much. And I’ve never had the enthusiasm since. I still want to fight Wojcik. Call me!!!1

Not caring as much has its benefits.

 

[chito_and_leon]

My youngest, who has played football for 10 years and DPOG and co-POG for Owasso’s first game this year, decided to stop coming to TU games 3 years ago because “they’re not fun.”

My oldest is a sophomore at TU and has been 2 games but, he’s not a football fan. And granted, COVID was a big player his freshman year.

He had a great time at the Tulane comeback saying, “Now I know why you guys love football!”
But, went to the home opener this year didn’t come back.

Programs grow on success.
Fans increase with success (usually.)
Kids want to be a part of a successful team in any way possible.

Programs don’t grow on accepted mediocrity.
Fans become apathetic to accepted mediocrity.
Kids want little to do with accepted mediocrity.

I think both premier programs could improve with the current HC’s if they had the right staff.
Monty needs a freaking OC.
Haith, needs either a great offensive mind or a great defensive mind to direct those aspects of the game.

Neither of the above are expensive options for TU but, it feels the ROI on these minor investments would be 5-10 fold per season.

Do Monty and Haith not have those people because TU won't let them hire them? Or because Monty and Haith won't hire them? Remember when we thought Blank was going to give up playcalling and he hired his son instead... Sometimes you can lead the horse to water but...

 

[I.I.]

Hire Dan Lanning and David Patrick and we win the lottery for less money than we pay our two head coaches now.

 

[Henry Kendall]

Hire Dan Lanning and David Patrick and we win the lottery for less money than we pay our two head coaches now.

OU just hired Lanning.

 

[astonmartin708]

Frank’s attitude is the non conference season is when you figure out how the pieces of the team work together to optimize it for the conference run. You should know that by now.

I.E. an attitude made to miss the NCAA tournament every season… because non-conference is what the committee cares about come March if you’re not in the Big 10 or ACC

 

[TU 1978]

OU just hired Lanning.

No they did not.

OU hire Venables

 

[Henry Kendall]

Tbh, I haven’t even followed it. SI was reporting it.

 

[URedskin54]

If I lived in the Tulsa area still I would have basketball season tickets as long as I could drag my old ass to the arena. I left Reno at 7 AM yesterday for a 7 hour trip to Boise. I watched an exciting basketball game, spent the night at my hotel then left at 6:30 AM Reno time this morning to drive back. To put this in perspective I seldom drag my retired butt out of bed before 9 AM. I had a great time and if they come out here again I’ll do the same. I’ve missed two TU basketball games played played west of the Rockies in the 23 years I’ve lived here and that was a tournament that spanned Thanksgiving or Christmas one and after missing Christmas for a similar tournament a couple of years before we thought it was more important to have Christmas dinner for our friends. In the 19-20 season loca was talking about I was thinking of driving to Ft. Worth for the conference tournament because I thought we would show up well and maybe win it. I dropped my plans when the virus was making a lot of events iffy. You can be whatever kind of fan you want to be but that’s the kind of fan I am. I’ll keep making my GHC contributions because nothing ever improves with less money and I’ll keep attending TU basketball games when it’s physically and financially feasible.

While it may be true that things never improve with less money, it’s also true that if you subsidize something you get more of it. I feel like my money is subsidizing mediocrity. I keep spending money on mediocre TU football and basketball, and my university is happy to keep producing a mediocre product for me.

 

[ba11game]

The last home game I saw on TV reminded me of a Holiday tournament in Puerto Rico where the locals don't care.
Seeing the atmosphere at the Mabee Center made it worse.
It seems like TU would see this as a problem they need to do something about, but it doesn't look like they do.
Going to games is not even an option for me anymore, but I still watch the games if they are on ESPN+ and listen on the radio if they're not.

 

[nevadanatural]

In my mind you’re setting up a catch 22. If fans don’t go to games and boosters don’t donate then the school can’t improve the product but the prevailing attitude here seems to be I won’t go or donate until the product improves. That’s similar to the old T-shirt/sign “the beatings will continue until morale improves“.

 

[drboobay]

In my mind you’re setting up a catch 22. If fans don’t go to games and boosters don’t donate then the school can’t improve the product but the prevailing attitude here seems to be I won’t go or donate until the product improves. That’s similar to the old T-shirt/sign “the beatings will continue until morale improves“.

I am not. Just want the administration to make a public commitment that makes sense and which I can get behind.

 

[chito_and_leon]

In my mind you’re setting up a catch 22. If fans don’t go to games and boosters don’t donate then the school can’t improve the product but the prevailing attitude here seems to be I won’t go or donate until the product improves. That’s similar to the old T-shirt/sign “the beatings will continue until morale improves“.

This is a conundrum faced by millions of companies every year - if you have a burger joint and your grill is old and decrepit and your burgers taste like dirt, you have to decide whether to stick with that grill and watch your sales keep sliding or go out on a limb and invest in a new grill on the hope the customers will come back. But you're very unlikely to buy a better grill if your customers just suck it up and eat your crummy burgers. Does that make a hard decision? Yes. But that's life for many, many business owners. TU can handle it.

 

[chito_and_leon]

While it may be true that things never improve with less money, it’s also true that if you subsidize something you get more of it. I feel like my money is subsidizing mediocrity. I keep spending money on mediocre TU football and basketball, and my university is happy to keep producing a mediocre product for me.

What I don't know - if you donate, does that increase the money available for athletics? Or just reduce the amount spent by the University. In other words, does the admin decide that athletics gets $5m or whatever and they pitch in whatever amount is needed after donations to get up to $5m? Or does TU put in $5m and every donation dollar increases the amount available for athletics? I ask this especially now. I assume usually donations just increase what athletics gets but in these days, I wonder if donations just let the university back handed spend less on athletics and more elsewhere? Same for the conference share of Cincinnati's bowl. Will that help us or just reduce what TU puts in so they can spend more somewhere else?