Record prediction

[Gmoney4WW]

So if we have another season like last year or worse... Is Haith gone?

Doubt it. This is the the fourth year on a seven year contract. They'll at least give him 5 or maybe even 6 years even if he doesn't do very well this year. TU doesn't have the money to buy out 3 years. He deserves next year anyway. The 6th year is up for debate depending on how he does this year and next...

My guess is if he doesn't get hired away from us, they'll give him 6 or 7 years. (And everybody on the board will be bitching about that last year or so. /Wojcik)

 

[TUMU]

Unless they added a year onto his contract, he signed a 6 year contract

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Unless they added a year onto his contract, he signed a 6 year contract

I looked it up to make sure, but I thought it was six as well. I checked a couple of sources after you posted that and they both said six. Guess I shouldn't take ESPN's word for it, especially when I know they got the amounts completely wrong...

"ESPN reported that Tulsa had offered Haith a seven-year contract worth an average of $1.85 million per season. He was scheduled to make $1.7 million this season at Missouri, which is owed $500,000 from Haith for terminating his contract early." Kansas City Star

Well that changes things a bit, my guess changes to 6 years that they will give him. I'm betting they wouldn't can him after year 5 when he just has a year left on his contract.

 

[astonmartin708]

Maybe he'all just hop to the next step down. What is that? CUSA? Maybe UTEP decides to get rid of their guy and start being competitive again. Think Haith can do the Texas two step?

 

[red dirt]

Haith has done a great job. Our recruiting has taken an upswing. Magney would have been a bench player. Jeffries and Scott are upgrades to what we had. We all know Aston has some sort of vendetta but the reality is that Haith has had to correct the crap that Manning left and could not do it in a year.

 

[JesseTU]

Haith has done a great job. Our recruiting has taken an upswing. ...the reality is that Haith has had to correct the crap that Manning left and could not do it in a year.

Or two years. Or three years.

Time will tell. But a "great job" is turning a program around in 2 or 3 years. A basketball program can rise and fall much faster than a football program. So far we went from 23 wins, to 21 wins, and then 15 wins (RPI 139) under Haith. I'm not going to bother trying a subjective recruiting analysis - the proof is on the court. Without a sharp uptick, I think its fair to say that the product on the Court has not thus far demonstrated a "great" job.

I'd say this year we should be able to see if the recruiting upswing you are banking on actually produces or not. I don't have an opinion. Just wait and see.

 

[tupatsfan]

Danny Manning did NOT want to be here and it showed in his complete lack of disregard for balancing the classes. Who allows a basketball team to have NINE SENIORS? REALLY? Complete bs that danny pulled there. Frank has done a really good job so far. The talent level he's recruiting and actually bringing in is improving and i think we will see the uptick start this season.

The negativity and ridiculous delusions some of you people have on this board is laughable.

 

[astonmartin708]

I think it's funny that you blame Danny's class problems on his not wanting to be here. His first year, he had 4 scholarship players on the roster when he got to town. 4! He brings in the best class that Tulsa has had in a decade with 5 freshman, a grad transfer (sr) and a JUCO sophomore. Then Rashad Smith gets injured and loses the season. So that makes 6 guys heading into their sophomore seasons. (Swanny was a RS Freshman Danny's first year). He brings in a JUCO Jr. the next season in Curtis, who proceeds to get injured and lose the season. So that makes for 7. Then Big E has eligibility issues with the NCAA, so make that 8. Nick Wood was a walk on, so that doesn't really make a difference.

Seems to me like people are putting a lot of malicious intent on Manning when all he did was bring in 5 freshman during a short recruiting cycle where he was left with an absolutely bare cupboard and then there were injury issues which were no one's fault. Haith brought in 5 freshman as well, only it seems that his weren't as good as Danny's. If you want to get mad at something, get mad at the fact that Haith has brought in 5 guys that didn't last more than 1 season at Tulsa.

 

[tupatsfan]

All Danny and his staff did was talk and tweet about KU. Nah, I'll blame him not balancing the classes more thank Frank. Frank can do no right in your eyes we all know that. I mean you ARE the ALL KNOWING on the board.

Danny did NOT want to be at TU, it's well documented.

 

[astonmartin708]

All Danny did was get unlucky with injuries to two players and had unforseen eligibility issues with a third. Oh, and he brought in Woodard, Wright, Harrison, and Ray. Then he got us to the tournament within two years of inheriting 4 scholarship athletes on a 15 man roster. I'd say Danny did fine. Balancing the classes isn't a huge deal when you have that kind of success. If Haith wanted to play 9 freshman next season, I wouldn't care as long has he got to the tournament.

 

[mcane]

No fan of Manning here.

I'm hoping for a flip to winning record 17-15 at a minimum. The OOC results will determine whether 20 wins is feasible.

 

[TU_BLA]

Danny Manning did NOT want to be here and it showed in his complete lack of disregard for balancing the classes. Who allows a basketball team to have NINE SENIORS? REALLY? Complete bs that danny pulled there. Frank has done a really good job so far. The talent level he's recruiting and actually bringing in is improving and i think we will see the uptick start this season.

The negativity and ridiculous delusions some of you people have on this board is laughable.

Agree. Add to that that Haith brought a team of players that Manning recruited that Manning was also open about that he didn't feel could compete in the AAC to the NCAA tournament and a #2 seed in the AAC who should have played in the AAC championship game the 1st year, he is doing fine. This year needs to be better than last year if we feel he is doing a good job and most of us can agree that last year was one of the most extensive rebuilding jobs that any program that is not one of the blue bloods has ever experienced.

 

[TU_BLA]

All Danny did was get unlucky with injuries to two players and had unforseen eligibility issues with a third. Oh, and he brought in Woodard, Wright, Harrison, and Ray. Then he got us to the tournament within two years of inheriting 4 scholarship athletes on a 15 man roster. I'd say Danny did fine. Balancing the classes isn't a huge deal when you have that kind of success. If Haith wanted to play 9 freshman next season, I wouldn't care as long has he got to the tournament.

Manning's plan was short term. That team also played in C-USA. Haith took a squad laden with C-USA talent and took them to the tournament.

 

[astonmartin708]

Manning's plan was short term. That team also played in C-USA. Haith took a squad laden with C-USA talent and took them to the tournament.

How was Manning's "plan" short term? He did the same thing Haith did. He brought in 5 freshman. The only differences are Haith dismissed two of them and Manning dismissed 1. Manning had season ending injuries to a sophomore and a junior respectively that made them add to the already large class. It would have been like Taplin having gone down with a torn ligament last season and Jeffries going down with something this season. I don't disagree that Manning wanted to be somewhere else. He obviously did because he's not here anymore.

Another argument could be made that Haith took a NCAA tournament team and proceeded to lose to SEOSU and a mediocre ORU team. C-USA talent or not that hurt us a lot. It probably made the difference between NIT and NCAA. We certainly had the talent to win those games too. Then, the next season he "took us to the tournament" by getting into a play in game as what was the sketchiest selection committee decision in quite a few years after getting blown out by a terrible Memphis team twice to end the regular season and conference tournament. (Because he didn't recruit a big man)

Seems to me like Haith may be "planning" long term, but I'm not sold on his long term "plan" being a successful one.

 

[tupatsfan]

How do you explain leaving us with 9 seniors? What is confusing about his plan being short term? All he and his staff talked about was KU this KU that. Manning was never all in here at TU.

 

[I.I.]

The C-USA tournament championship had to have every seed fall into perfect position for us to win. USM would have buried us on that side of the bracket. Danny's floor management was better than I had expected and his recruiting worse than I expected. His loss of Kodi the first day really hurt his chances and after that first recruiting class, he had the Wojcik eye for greener pastures. (except no one would take Woj).

 

[astonmartin708]

The C-USA tournament championship had to have every seed fall into perfect position for us to win. USM would have buried us on that side of the bracket. Danny's floor management was better than I had expected and his recruiting worse than I expected. His loss of Kodi the first day really hurt his chances and after that first recruiting class, he had the Wojcik eye for greener pastures. (except no one would take Woj).

I can mostly agree on that. Although we had already beat USM earlier in the season. I think we may or may not have beaten them again. They weren't that amazing as they only played zone under that A-hole Tyndall.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Manning didn't even attempt to hide his use of TU as a stepping stone... he left at the first opportunity he had (making almost the exact same amount of money). He didn't have TU or its best interest at heart and it was pretty obvious. He knew he screwed up the roster and then said eff it and basically ran out the door.

 

[astonmartin708]

How do you explain leaving us with 9 seniors? What is confusing about his plan being short term? All he and his staff talked about was KU this KU that. Manning was never all in here at TU.

I already explained that. He returned 4 scholarship players.
1 Sr (Haralson)
2 So.'s (Peete + Smith)
1 RS FR (Swanny)

He then added 5 (Shaq, Juice, Ray, Wright, King) That makes 7 Fr. when including the walk on Wood.

Smith was injured moving him into the large class. That made for 8 So.'s
King was dismissed. 7 So.'s

Curtis was injured the next season moving him to the large class. 8 Jr.'s

Big E got shanked by the NCAA, which pretty much no one saw coming when he was recruited. 9 Jr.'s

So, barring Big E, Smitty, and Curtis... which of the 5 guys who were Fr. in Manning's first year (Shaq, Juice, Ray, Wright, Swanny) would you have replaced with a JUCO or a transfer? I wouldn't have replaced any of those guys. They just needed more help which was Manning AND Haith's biggest flaw.

In regards to the KU crap, who cares? Haith brought in English who was a good coach, but he was still all over Mizzou's timeline when he was at Tulsa.

 

[Gold*]

Manning had Steve Robinson level charisma and was surprisingly weak at developing big men. He could coach some D though. That C-USA trip was probably my favorite of any TU trip ever. That league was crap in the end and I got to let them know it. Also, Manning was good at standing up to officials and for the most part, they were star struck with him.

I actually think it worked out for the better for us. A lot of people from other schools are negative on Haith, but I'm pretty pleased with how he conducts himself and what he has done. This year and next year are possibly big seasons. I'd be happier if Magnay and English had stayed.

 

[astonmartin708]

Manning had Steve Robinson level charisma and was surprisingly weak at developing big men. He could coach some D though. That C-USA trip was probably my favorite of any TU trip ever. That league was crap in the end and I got to let them know it. Also, Manning was good at standing up to officials and for the most part, they were star struck with him.

I actually think it worked out for the better for us. A lot of people from other schools are negative on Haith, but I'm pretty pleased with how he conducts himself and what he has done. This year and next year are possibly big seasons. I'd be happier if Magnay and English had stayed.

We have slightly different takes, but I can appreciate all the sentiment here.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I would have replaced Ray and maybe Swanny with a JC or transfer at the time. After the fact I would have replaced Ray with a JC. You are somewhat right in that it was not all his fault, but he also did not redshirt players to alleviate the uneven classes either, and some of that can be laid on Manning. If he had redshirted one or two players and got a JC/Transfer then the class(despite the bad luck) would have ended up being 6 or 7 which would signified that he was looking out for Tulsa's long term interests, but he did not.

 

[astonmartin708]

I would have replaced Ray and maybe Swanny with a JC or transfer at the time. After the fact I would have replaced Ray with a JC. You are somewhat right in that it was not all his fault, but he also did not redshirt players to alleviate the uneven classes either, and some of that can be laid on Manning. If he had redshirted one or two players and got a JC/Transfer then the class(despite the bad luck) would have ended up being 6 or 7 which would signified that he was looking out for Tulsa's long term interests, but he did not.

That's a very fair assessment. I suppose redshirting someone like Ray might have made sense, but when that would have left us with only one PG. He couldn't have redshirted any of the forwards because they already had (Swanny) or there were so many injuries that season we wouldn't have been competitive at all. And you couldn't redshirt Juice. Maybe Harrison? But, seeing how Harrison turned out and how much he ended up helping during his sophomore year I can appreciate him getting gametime reps as a freshman.

I wouldn't have traded Ray. His role diminished as Harrison became a bigger piece and Curtis became more favored by Haith, but I think Ray was really a 'glue' guy for that team. Remove him and everything might have fallen apart.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

How was Manning's "plan" short term? He did the same thing Haith did. He brought in 5 freshman. The only differences are Haith dismissed two of them and Manning dismissed 1. Manning had season ending injuries to a sophomore and a junior respectively that made them add to the already large class. It would have been like Taplin having gone down with a torn ligament last season and Jeffries going down with something this season. I don't disagree that Manning wanted to be somewhere else. He obviously did because he's not here anymore.

Another argument could be made that Haith took a NCAA tournament team and proceeded to lose to SEOSU and a mediocre ORU team. C-USA talent or not that hurt us a lot. It probably made the difference between NIT and NCAA. We certainly had the talent to win those games too. Then, the next season he "took us to the tournament" by getting into a play in game as what was the sketchiest selection committee decision in quite a few years after getting blown out by a terrible Memphis team twice to end the regular season and conference tournament. (Because he didn't recruit a big man)

Seems to me like Haith may be "planning" long term, but I'm not sold on his long term "plan" being a successful one.

That's a very fair assessment. I suppose redshirting someone like Ray might have made sense, but when that would have left us with only one PG. He couldn't have redshirted any of the forwards because they already had (Swanny) or there were so many injuries that season we wouldn't have been competitive at all. And you couldn't redshirt Juice. Maybe Harrison? But, seeing how Harrison turned out and how much he ended up helping during his sophomore year I can appreciate him getting gametime reps as a freshman.

I wouldn't have traded Ray. His role diminished as Harrison became a bigger piece and Curtis became more favored by Haith, but I think Ray was really a 'glue' guy for that team. Remove him and everything might have fallen apart.

I don't know what I was thinking, Swanny came in the class before. My apologies should have remembered he was a Wojcik guy.

I would have considered Ray though, a JC point guard would have been what I would have recruited instead of Ray. At the time we had no way of knowing he would be the glue, and the JC point guard could have been the glue.

There were other possibilities for redshirts if you got a little bit creative. Being a new policy, the 5th year graduates didn't leave as much back then, you could have redshirted Smith his sophomore year, or one of the freshman their sophomore year.

 

[nevadanatural]

I liked Manning and thought he did a good job in a bad situation but anyone who says he wasn't looking to get out of town at the first opportunity is just fooling themselves. Also his NCAA team was mediocre until the last 10 or so games. They got hot at the right time and won the tournament in a weak league.

Haith took us to an NIT his first year and an NCAA at-large (important differentiator) his second. Last year was a complete rebuild, even more than Mannings and in a tougher league. Objectively he's done better than Manning. This coming season should be better.

 

[loca2874]

With all the bickering maybe we can be like the bud light commercial

“YOUR A REAL FAN TO THE THRONE”

“DILLY, DILLY”

 

[astonmartin708]

I liked Manning and thought he did a good job in a bad situation but anyone who says he wasn't looking to get out of town at the first opportunity is just fooling themselves. Also his NCAA team was mediocre until the last 10 or so games. They got hot at the right time and won the tournament in a weak league.

Haith took us to an NIT his first year and an NCAA at-large (important differentiator) his second. Last year was a complete rebuild, even more than Mannings and in a tougher league. Objectively he's done better than Manning. This coming season should be better.

Haith's task wasn't at all harder than Manning's. Manning had maybe 4 months of recruiting at TU to solve a problem that left the team with 5 guys. Then Maduka goes down with a heart defect in the summer and his job gets even harder. Haith knew the roster issues when he came in. Then he had 2 years to recruit and help alleviate some of the pressure. He grabbed 3.5 guys that didn't pan out: Dew, Littlejohn (technically Manning's guy, but retained by Haith), Rusic, Brown. Of his first 2 classes only one freshman stuck around: Taplin.
Hitting on any of those open roster spots would have allowed our team a bit more stability when going through such a large departure.

Also, I'm really sick of hearing about Haith getting the at - large bid. It was a play in game. And we probably shouldn't have even received that. If one person on this board tells me they thought we would even have a chance to get that bid on selection sunday, I'll call them a liar by name via youtube video. It's not like Haith had us firing on all cylinders all the way through March.

 

[nevadanatural]

The problem most have on here is that you’re sick of hearing anything positive where Haith is concerned. I know you will deny it but your Haith hate comes through loud and clear in every post you make and it prevents you from having objective observation.

 

[astonmartin708]

It's not hate, it's just observation. Everyone points out two things about Haith that we're all supposed to be supportive of: He went to the NCAA's, and he rebalanced the classes. Well, his rebalancing of the classes hasn't provided W's, and he made the NCAA's by the slimmest margin in the tournament's history.

My question to everyone is, if the committee had kept us out of the tournament during Haith's second year like every single analyst thought they should, and Tulsa was NIT-bound in those seniors' last years; then what's everyone's opinion now? After taking a VERY talented team to the brink of two straight NIT's then coming in with another class that underachieved at times and didn't finish with a winning record? Or how about losing to teams like ORU (2x), blowout losses to mediocre Houston / Memphis squads. A DII school?

Haith isn't a terrible coach, he's actually pretty decent. He just reminds me of Dave Rader a bit in that sometimes he'll get a team motivated and win a really big game, then follow it up with an absolute stinker where his players look like they didn't even practice that week.

 

[nevadanatural]

If we’re going to play fantasy basketball what would everyone think if Manning’s NCAA team that was 5-9 OOC and had to go on an 8 game winning streak at the end of the season to finish 18-12 pre conference tourney had lost that first tourney game and missed not only the dance but the NIT as well (the most likely outcome in that scenario)? You can change history all you want to try and feed your prejudice but the plain truth is that Haith finished second in the AAC with a 21-9 record pre tourney and probably should have gotten an NCAA bid at 22-10 then got an at-large his second year. Was that at-large affected by the first year snub? I think there’s a possibility.

Will Haith’s time at TU play out well in the long run? None of us know but looking at the results objectively, considering things such as strength of schedule, I can’t see how anyone can say that, so far, Haith hasn’t done better than Manning. I would feel better about the coming season with Magnay still in the fold but I do feel we will have a strong team.

 

[t-townpod]

The bigger concern with Haith is recruiting this year. He attempted to go strong with high rated recruits and has continued to strike out. He gets a guy just below the high-level guys and still falls flat unable to keep the deal closed.

 

[Gold*]

If you thought we had been as competitive in the AAC as we have been, more power to you, brau. Manning thought we'd get our asses kicked and bailed on a wonderful but flawed team.

Haith came in with a bunch of players who didn't fit his (or anyone's) style and pissed off the entire league repeatedly. Who would think we would have multiple wins over UCONN?

That may not count for much to you, but those first two years were hella fun for the rest of us who have followed the program for longer than five years.

 

[URedskin54]

Also, I'm really sick of hearing about Haith getting the at - large bid. It was a play in game. And we probably shouldn't have even received that. If one person on this board tells me they thought we would even have a chance to get that bid on selection sunday, I'll call them a liar by name via youtube video. It's not like Haith had us firing on all cylinders all the way through March.

Still a dumb critique. "Sure we got an at-large spot, but it doesn't really count because non-Tulsa fans were sad." There were X number of at large spots, we got one. There's no asterisk just because Joe Lunardi was upset about it

 

[TUMU]

Manning's first head coaching job was at TU. When Haith came to TU, I think he had been a D1 head coach for 10 seasons. Haith's turn around time to win at least one game in the NCAA tournament should not be longer than 4 years in my opinion. I'm counting field of 64 wins only, not a play in game win, if that should occur.

Manning was never going to be here long term. He got in the NCAA tournament his second season and got out as quick as possible.

The only basketball coach hired by TU in the last 30 years who planned on being here long term was John Phillips, how did that work out? Hell, we all know Woz wanted out of here at four or five years, but he was a mess.

If Haith has any NCAA tournament success, he will be gone at the first opportunity that will be better for his family and his career in his opinion.

As long as Haith wins 15 or more games each season during the remaining three years of his current contract, he will most likely survive each year. He probably won't get an extension unless he wins the conference regular season or conference post season tournament, which won't be good for recruiting.

 

[astonmartin708]

Still a dumb critique. "Sure we got an at-large spot, but it doesn't really count because non-Tulsa fans were sad." There were X number of at large spots, we got one. There's no asterisk just because Joe Lunardi was upset about it

There's an asterisk because we really shouldn't have been in, and it was a play in game.

 

[URedskin54]

There's an asterisk because we really shouldn't have been in, and it was a play in game.

Pretending that an at-large and 11 seed doesn't count is weird and undermines your criticism of Haith.

 

[TU_BLA]

and he made the NCAA's by the slimmest margin in the tournament's history.

Not true...that last slot for whoever gets one of those play-in games is always debated and all of the ESPN guys will vouch for whatever ACC school who finished 21-12 but 6-12 in conference and 15-0 in their cupcake non-conference schedule against all 8 MEAC schools, should have received the bid instead. Don't forget that we were about :57 from shutting everyone up too.

You made another point about Haith losing to SEOSU and ORU....TU's best team ever lost to ORU during that season. There have been ad nauseam discussions on this board about whether or not the series should continue because TU's players don't care about the game and it's ORU's super bowl.

 

[TU_BLA]

If you thought we had been as competitive in the AAC as we have been, more power to you, brau. Manning thought we'd get our asses kicked and bailed on a wonderful but flawed team.

Haith came in with a bunch of players who didn't fit his (or anyone's) style and pissed off the entire league repeatedly. Who would think we would have multiple wins over UCONN?

That may not count for much to you, but those first two years were hella fun for the rest of us who have followed the program for longer than five years.

Gold winning the board in this discussion!

 

[tupatsfan]

Aston continues to make a fool out of himself and it's a perfect start to my tuesday

"Yea welll...we shouldn't have been in"

Did you run to your bedroom and slam the door after saying that? You probably turned on some cranberries to help fight that sadness.

Every freaking thing out of your mouth is negativity or justifying your idiotic positions. But keep them going it makes me happy

 

[Weatherdemon]

There's an asterisk because we really shouldn't have been in, and it was a play in game.

That's just stupid.

It was nice to not be on the sh1t end of the stick for once and it counts...Like it or not... and I have no clue why you don't like the fact Tulsa got in.