Lets be real about Coach Haith
- Thread starter libertychamp
- Start date
I would agree if you are talking about the usual 2 to 4 players that programs usually lose each year...but this is a unique situation, replacing an entire team almost.
Danny did it and went to the CBI his first year. He had two seniors (Kauri Black + Scottie Haralson) two juniors (Tim Peete + Pat Swilling) and one sophomore (Smitty) The rest were Freshman. Plus, that team battled injury in the frontcourt the entire year.
To be fair, it was in a slightly weaker conference, but you still had Memphis + Houston and some decent teams like UTEP. And Danny was building off of years of mediocre basketball without any NCAA appearances. Haith had two of them to build off of.
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I don't think the two situations are comparable, and it was in a much weaker conference, in my opinion. This year's team has two guys that played last season...and one (Taplin) played sparingly. The other (Birt) isn't even a full time starter. Almost the entire team is trying to figure out how to play together, and they have only one scholarship senior. Nine players on the roster are freshmen or sophomores.
That's a very difficult scenario in college basketball, especially in a good conference. It's going to take some time to see how these young guys mature and develop.
I get and agree that the team has not played much together and judgment should be reserved until part way through the conference season on this team. But, the rotation is not that young. Four of the top five in minutes are three juniors and a senior.
JUCOS.
Do you not get it takes most jucos quite a while to adjust? Good Lord.
Anyone with any association with KU can't be taken serious when speaking about Haith. I know personally, my wife is a KU grad.
Do you not get it takes most jucos quite a while to adjust? Good Lord.
Anyone with any association with KU can't be taken serious when speaking about Haith. I know personally, my wife is a KU grad.
And who's fault is that? Remember, it's "Haith's Recruits" He could have gone out and got a different set of guys. He didn't have to grab 5 freshman. There were plenty of immediately eligible transfers or JUCO's out there that he could have recruited. Or ya know, he could have recruited guys in previous years that would have been better players now, instead of the overrecruiting and then cutting people loose technique that he's repeatedly employed or the recruiting of positions that we don't need. The Dew + Brown busts come to mind. If one of those guys had been satisfactory, we would have had a more experienced team this year.
That wouldn't make any sense unless he didn't plan on being at TU very long. He has to recruit for the future, and it appears he's done that with guys like Magnay, Korita and Igbanu...Taplin as well. But he also had to try and spread guys out across the classes to even them out some.
At any rate, no matter what he did, it was going to be an entirely new team. There was just no way around that.
Xmas break is an important time for new or young teams as it's two to three weeks where they can solely concentrate on basketball without the demands of school. I would expect to see TU make strides during this time period and look much better when conference begins. Nine games into the season is far too early to be forming opinions on this squad. Let's wait at least until mid-January before reaching any decisions on where the team is and the job Haith has done with the same. Age / Class wise we aren't that young. We lack experience playing together and the Jucos are still adjusting to D1 ball. We should revive this thread in a month.
How would adding a senior grad transfer in place of one of the five freshman screwed up the class sizes? As you said, we only have one scholarship senior. Instead we would have had two (more experience) + a free scholarship for someone next year instead of having to do the over recruiting thing. (Of course we could have still done it if someone hadn't panned out)
More importantly, that experience that we would have gained, might have meant we could go to a tourney.
That's not exactly true. The rotation is in flux right now. The past three games Magnay has become a starter. And Korita has been put more heavily into the rotation. Don't know if Korita's increase will be permanent, but Magnay's change is.
It's really enlightening that Tulsa can have whatever player we want, that we just have to invite them and they will sign right away. Why didn't Haith just go out and get Villanova's players or Duke's for that matter? Does that sound ridiculous to you? It's only slightly more ridiculous than your assertions sound to us. Imagine the outrage and fan uproar if Haith had replaced a bunch of players that had just been to the dance. Barring that he has had one or two scholarships per year to give until this year. Keondre Dew was a 4-star recruit who didn't think he had to try in college. You don't know things like that until you get them on campus. Brown showed flashes of talent as a freshman but couldn't get court time on a team full of upperclassmen fighting for a league title. Your expectations are so beyond reality that most of us are sitting here with our mouths open not knowing if this is real or some kind of complex troll. I can only figure it's some deep seated hate for coach Haith in which case no one can say anything that will convince you but honestly this team has played about as well as I could have expected with so many new players and they are improving every game. If that's not good enough then nothing will satisfy you until the coach is gone.
He tried that at Mizzou = Failure. Only good season was his first with MIke Anderson's players. Then a horrible NCAA tournament lost.
Hoping for much better with us.
If you are only talking about one player, then it may or may not have made a difference. I agree that having a grad transfer instead of one of the freshmen wouldn't have been a major swing in class sizes, and the coaches did look at potential grad transfers. But they had nine scholarships to deal with in one class...navigating that was very difficult. It would be like football filling about 45 to 50 scholarships in one recruiting class rather than 20. I'm sure Haith hopes he never has to do that again.
So I just started counting names on the transfer list that were eligible immediately and transferred from D1 to D1 schools. (I got to 50 names before I even got past the letter 'K') Now, some of those will be hardship transfers where they need to be closer to home, but a majority of them will be senior grad transfers. If Tulsa can't grab 1 in 50 or so kids, that every single school isn't even competing for. While schools like Wake Forest, Charleston, Iona, and other smaller D1's with less tradition can then we have a real problem.
Brown didn't get any playtime because he played off-guard. If he had been a forward (a position that we desperately needed) then he might have played a bit more. I chalk that one completely on Haith because the recruiting buck stops at the top. We got Dew at the end of the signing period when a ton of other teams backed off of him. I'm guessing they probably did it for a reason. And the only reason we needed to fill his scholarship in the first place was because Haith brought in another guard that summer (a shooter) who couldn't qualify. Chalk another one up to Haith.
We'll see who is right in the end. I'll make the assertion: when Haith's tenure ends at Tulsa, it will not be due to elevating to a better school or retirement. One of two things will happen: eventually he'll be let go, or he'll jump to a lower school which has been his MO.
I completely get the point that everyone is trying to make. I just don't think that everyone is correct in their assertion that Haith has done it in the best fashion possible. I don't disagree that building with HS players is essential but, having experience is also essential.
LMAO. You're such a troll about the World. Anything that isn't sunshine and rainbows gets you butthurt.
Everybody is laughing there ass off about you. Thanks for that barb with no thorns. Your arguments held some sort of weight most of the time, until about three or four weeks ago. Lately you are just arguing to argue. I just don't like silly arguments with no intelligent thought behind it. I'm outty on this childish display.
That's fine. I'll get the last laugh, and you're the one that brought up a silly argument. "My buddy Kelly".
On this date in 2012, Danny's first team was 6-5 and ranked 189 in Pomeroy with an average of 1.21 years of college experience.
This team is 5-4 and 135 in Pomeroy with an average of 1.49 years of college experience.
That is why I said I understand they haven't played together much. Regardless,
I believe Manning's team started three freshman and the three primary ball handlers were all freshmen. This team starts a freshman big man but otherwise has no freshmen starters and none of the primary ball handlers are freshmen.
Atson, Korita, and Igbanu have all started at various points in the first 9 games. But yes, if you ignore the freshmen who have started games then this team has no freshmen starters.
Nice sideswipe attempt during the bowl game.
Just trying to link the ridiculousness of of the two threads.(kelly)
I really don't care if you read my every post looking for some way to get your last laugh.
Not sure what you are talking about. As I said, this team starts a freshman big man. With the exception of 1 game early (2 freshman bigs) and 1 more recent (1 big and 1 guard), the starting lineup has been just as I said.
If KU had Wichita's players, they might start three freshmen, too. At the same or different times.
Have you watched any TU games this year? Travis Atson is a basketball player. He's also a freshman at TU. He was on the court at the beginning of 2 games for the TU basketball team.
Yes, correct. He was the only freshman starter for the first two games. What is your point?
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