Lets be real about Coach Haith

[ctt8410]

If you add up all the contributions by the 3 bigs from last season (Smitty, Wright, Swanny) and the 4 from this season (Etou, Magnay, Edogi, Igbanu) and then divide them by the number of contributors you get roughly the same average of points per big, and last year's squad was actually better at assists per big. The only thing this group does significantly better statwise is rebound, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that they're not competing with guards that normally sky for rebounds like Shaq or Juice did.

I'm generally pretty tired of people putting down last year's team, but you've gone off the deep end in the opposite direction. Here are some actual numbers:

2-pt%
2016 bigs: 55.4% on 13.1 attempts per game
2017 bigs: 62.6% on 13.4 attempts per game

3-pt%
2016 bigs: 19.2% on 0.8 attempts per game
2017 bigs: 45.5% on 2.8 attempts per game

FT%
2016 bigs: 61.8% on 6.0 attempts per game
2017 bigs: 59.0% on 10.4 attempts per game

OReb
2016 bigs: 3.1 per 40 minutes
2017 bigs: 3.7 per 40 minutes

DReb
2016 bigs: 4.7 per 40 minutes
2017 bigs: 6.9 per 40 minutes

Blocks
2016 bigs: 1.3 per 40 minutes
2017 bigs: 1.6 per 40 minutes

I love those guys from last year and the guard play was light years ahead of this team, but I don't see any argument that production from the bigs hasn't improved.

 

[astonmartin708]

I'm generally pretty tired of people putting down last year's team, but you've gone off the deep end in the opposite direction. Here are some actual numbers:

2-pt%
2016 bigs: 55.4% on 13.1 attempts per game
2017 bigs: 62.6% on 13.4 attempts per game

3-pt%
2016 bigs: 19.2% on 0.8 attempts per game
2017 bigs: 45.5% on 2.8 attempts per game

FT%
2016 bigs: 61.8% on 6.0 attempts per game
2017 bigs: 59.0% on 10.4 attempts per game

OReb
2016 bigs: 3.1 per 40 minutes
2017 bigs: 3.7 per 40 minutes

DReb
2016 bigs: 4.7 per 40 minutes
2017 bigs: 6.9 per 40 minutes

Blocks
2016 bigs: 1.3 per 40 minutes
2017 bigs: 1.6 per 40 minutes

I love those guys from last year and the guard play was light years ahead of this team, but I don't see any argument that production from the bigs hasn't improved.

Here are some actual per game numbers:

2016: 6.37 points per bigman
2017: 6.675 points per bigman

2016: 3.8 rebounds per bigman
2017: 4.6 rebounds per bigman

2016: 0.6 Assists per bigman
2017: 0.525 Assists per bigman

So, there has been some improvement in areas, but sharing the ball has been weaker. All I'm saying is the "improvement" in production by our bigs isn't as drastic as has been stated. A lot of it has to do with having one more guy in the rotation and keeping the other bigs fresh.

It's actually scary that the assist rate went down considering our bigs last year weren't very tremendous passers to begin with.

 

[lawpoke87]

Rebounds per game from 2016 to 2017 from the bigs is a little misleading in that our guards were such good rebounders in 2016. I might compare both rebounds per bigman and total rebound margin for the team for both years to get a better picture. I will say this...against the best two teams we've played thus far this year we've been outrebounded by an over 16 boards per game. There are mixed results as far as the bigs imo.

 

[rabidTU]

I have a few issues with Haith's style of offense not being structured enough, but lets give him a chance the next two years and see what happens. Last year the makeup of the team was something he didn't create and this year we are terribly young with just one senior and that senior is having some problems scoring right now. Haith took a team full of seniors last year most coaches would have run away from and ended up in the NCAA at years end, so lets give him some slack - for now.

 

[ctt8410]

Here are some actual per game numbers:

2016: 6.37 points per bigman
2017: 6.675 points per bigman

2016: 3.8 rebounds per bigman
2017: 4.6 rebounds per bigman

2016: 0.6 Assists per bigman
2017: 0.525 Assists per bigman

So, there has been some improvement in areas, but sharing the ball has been weaker. All I'm saying is the "improvement" in production by our bigs isn't as drastic as has been stated. A lot of it has to do with having one more guy in the rotation and keeping the other bigs fresh.

It's actually scary that the assist rate went down considering our bigs last year weren't very tremendous passers to begin with.

Surely you see the problem with squeezing 4 players into the same amount of minutes as 3 players and then showing numbers on a per-player basis?

 

[ctt8410]

Rebounds per game from 2016 to 2017 from the bigs is a little misleading in that our guards were such good rebounders in 2016. I might compare both rebounds per bigman and total rebound margin for the team for both years to get a better picture. I will say this...against the best two teams we've played thus far this year we've been outrebounded by an over 16 boards per game. There are mixed results as far as the bigs imo.

Last year's team rebounded 69.5% of opponent misses and 27.9% of their own misses.

This year's team has rebounded 70.7% of opponent misses and 31.1% of their own misses.

Team rebounding was not a strength last year.

 

[t-townpod]

Been away for a day and come back to this thread. Wow. I have followed TU basketball since late 1960's. Dana Lewis comes to mind but not sure anyone else has Magney type potential. Also think Korita is going to be very good. We do not have a great PG and Haith still getting confidence in Korita.
Haith makes some decisions I question, like trying to play Wheeler at the point, but I understand the limitations he has this year and he seems to be developing a rotation of 8 guys to rebuild and await another PG and shooter. Still need that stretch 4.
He has had some misses in recruiting which concerns me (especially his 1st year)but he also has had a couple under the radar big time gets.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Surely you see the problem with squeezing 4 players into the same amount of minutes as 3 players and then showing numbers on a per-player basis?

Jerry Jones can help

 

[astonmartin708]

Surely you see the problem with squeezing 4 players into the same amount of minutes as 3 players and then showing numbers on a per-player basis?

I would if the minutes of the larger group were the same or smaller than the smaller one. But this years group plays 69.2 minutes per game to last year's 58.4

 

[ctt8410]

I'm having flashbacks to that bodybuilding.com argument about how many days are in a week.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Just won't let an argument go.

 

[cmullinsTU]

I'm having flashbacks to that bodybuilding.com argument about how many days are in a week.

TheJosh makes math teachers across America weep.

 

[TU_BLA]

If you add up all the contributions by the 3 bigs from last season (Smitty, Wright, Swanny) and the 4 from this season (Etou, Magnay, Edogi, Igbanu) and then divide them by the number of contributors you get roughly the same average of points per big, and last year's squad was actually better at assists per big. The only thing this group does significantly better statwise is rebound, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that they're not competing with guards that normally sky for rebounds like Shaq or Juice did.

The fact that Magnay and Etou can stay on the court the entire game without fouling out alone puts them ahead of Wright and Swannegan. Magnay is a much better shot blocker and defender than either Wright or Swannegan.

 

[Gold*]

Swannegan was a good shot blocker. I don't talk about Wright.

 

[TU_BLA]

Swannegan was a good shot blocker. I don't talk about Wright.

He was also skilled at fouling. Magnay's ability to block shots from weird position without fouling has been impressive.

 

[astonmartin708]

He was also skilled at fouling. Magnay's ability to block shots from weird position without fouling has been impressive.

No one disagrees with that.

 

[goldfan83]

Watching CTT call out some of the deeper thinkers on this board is highly amusing.

 

[lawpoke87]

Last year's team rebounded 69.5% of opponent misses and 27.9% of their own misses.

This year's team has rebounded 70.7% of opponent misses and 31.1% of their own misses.

Team rebounding was not a strength last year.

Never said it was the strength of last year's team. I just think we're overstating the board prowess of this year's squad. Let's see what the numbers look like once we get in the meat of AAC play. We currently rank 186th in rebounding btw per yahoo stats and haven't been competitive against the two best squads we've faced.

 

[aTUfan]

Its a young team. Wait til the end of the season and then determine if this team has improved.

 

[TU_BLA]

Its a young team. Wait til the end of the season and then determine if this team has improved.

There's been exponential improvement from game 1 until now. After game 1 many on this board questioned whether or not we would reach 10 wins. And there's still a lot of room for growth.

 

[astonmartin708]

There's been exponential improvement from game 1 until now. After game 1 many on this board questioned whether or not we would reach 10 wins. And there's still a lot of room for growth.

I still am not sure about 10 wins.

 

[tupatsfan]

Oh you're STILL here?

 

[lawpoke87]

I still am not sure about 10 wins.

Agree. I think we get there but I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't after looking at our schedule.

 

[TU_BLA]

I think we are a lot better than the bottom half of the AAC...we're not getting that credit yet. ECU, USF, Tulane are all absolutely dreadful.

 

[goldfan83]

When was the last time Tulane was good at basketball? You would think there would be some decent ball players in LA but maybe their "standards" are too high.

 

[astonmartin708]

Oh you're STILL here?

Brady knew.

 

[tupatsfan]

I remember MY first Beer.

 

[astonmartin708]

I remember MY first Beer.

I remember spygate.

 

[TU_BLA]

I remember spygate.

Bro, 90% of fans have no idea what spygate was even about, but go ahead and keep talking. BTW, the Colts and Broncos are the 2 biggest offenders since 2004 of breaking NFL rules and being sanctioned by the league. Most of that has to do with PEDs and substance abuse, but cheating players nonetheless.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Haith has been able to win in the past with someone else's guys. He did that here as well. The question was always whether he could sustain any success with his own recruits. He could not at Missouri and they are still trying to dig themselves out of that mess. That is why I questioned the hire at the time it was made. However, it is much too early to know whether he can do it at TU. Thus far, this team has not been good. They are ranked 141 on kenpom.com. But everyone knew this team was not going to be particularly good early in the season. It is an almost entirely new team. You hope to see some signs of improvement as the season progresses and you hope to see some guys that can be the building blocks for a successful team in a year or two. Truthfully, I think this is going to be a two year project. You definitely want to see improvement this year and next but 2018-2019 will be the season that decides whether Haith can do it or not.

 

[seniorgolfer]

Swannegan was a good shot blocker. I don't talk about Wright.

But you could back him down physically and shoot lip-overs all night on him....
He was gritty, but not big enough and strong enough to be a good defender....

 

[Gold*]

We won a lot of games with Swanny. We've had WAY worse.

 

[TulsaEye]

It is still too early in the season to even start talking about how bad of job the coaching staff is doing. End of the season is one thing but mid-season. Give it a rest! This team has a long way to before they sort themselves out. This team won't really show what it is capable of until next season soonest. Oh and Magney is definitely showing what I saw in him preseason. Love Australian ex-rugby players. Toughness willing mix it up.

 

[noble cane]

They are ranked 141 on kenpom.com..

I went to that website... the things that Ken was doing to Barbie were just filthy...

 

[goldfan83]

Bro, 90% of fans have no idea what spygate was even about, but go ahead and keep talking. BTW, the Colts and Broncos are the 2 biggest offenders since 2004 of breaking NFL rules and being sanctioned by the league. Most of that has to do with PEDs and substance abuse, but cheating players nonetheless.

They should be reminded constantly. Every win from that era should have been vacated but Goodell and Kraft are Orgy partners so we knew that wouldn't happen.

 

[Chris Harmon]

How well did he do with is OWN recruits at MISSOURI and how well will he do with all of his recruits this year 14-16 or worse? We don't need another BB or JP.. Also what is his record against P5 teams just asking?

This thread is extremely premature, IMO. If the team is 14-16 this year, isn't that what most expected due to 10 new players...most of them freshmen? Haith has brought in some strong young talent, as evidenced by what Will Magnay, Lawson Korita and Martins Igbanu have already done. Those kids have incredible potential. But it's WAY too early to tell what Haith is going to do with his own recruits at TU. He's still trying to even out recruiting classes, which is a problem he was handed by the previous staff.

 

[t-townpod]

This thread is extremely premature, IMO. If the team is 14-16 this year, isn't that what most expected due to 10 new players...most of them freshmen? Haith has brought in some strong young talent, as evidenced by what Will Magnay, Lawson Korita and Martins Igbanu have already done. Those kids have incredible potential. But it's WAY too early to tell what Haith is going to do with his own recruits at TU. He's still trying to even out recruiting classes, which is a problem he was handed by the previous staff.

Well said Chris. We also have to remember that TU will never be getting the 1 and done recruits. Our goal is to find the 3* athletes that will become high 4* after a couple years. This year will tell us very little barring a complete collapse with minimal wins from here on out.

 

[TU_BLA]

They should be reminded constantly. Every win from that era should have been vacated but Goodell and Kraft are Orgy partners so we knew that wouldn't happen.

The point is do you actually know what Spygate was really about? And no, Goodell is no friend of the Krafts nor the NFL in generals. He has absolutely whiffed on 75% of the discipline matters where he could make a difference. He is in the pocket of the broadcasters and advertisers and as long as they like a certain player or image, goodwill will do nothing to potentially harm that. Greg Hardy, Earl Thomas, DJ Ward, Richard Sherman. Hardy for obvious reasons, the rest are all cheap shot artists hoping to get under someone's skin. NFL does nothing even though the crap they pull ends up with guys getting injured.

 

[TU_BLA]

Well said Chris. We also have to remember that TU will never be getting the 1 and done recruits. Our goal is to find the 3* athletes that will become high 4* after a couple years. This year will tell us very little barring a complete collapse with minimal wins from here on out.

Joiner has the chance to be our Nic Moore, let's just hope he's not that pinkish and annoying.

 

[astonmartin708]

This thread is extremely premature, IMO. If the team is 14-16 this year, isn't that what most expected due to 10 new players...most of them freshmen? Haith has brought in some strong young talent, as evidenced by what Will Magnay, Lawson Korita and Martins Igbanu have already done. Those kids have incredible potential. But it's WAY too early to tell what Haith is going to do with his own recruits at TU. He's still trying to even out recruiting classes, which is a problem he was handed by the previous staff.

I disagree. It's not like Haith couldn't recruit anyone when he first got here. There were open spots. This isn't the first chance Haith has had to get "his own recruits". I've said multiple times, that a regression back to losing basketball won't allow us to build on the success that we had with last year's players. I don't exactly expect haith to fully reload every time he loses a group, but I don't think asking for an NIT appearance in the years we don't make the NCAA is too much to expect. Heck even a CBI/CIT type exhibition wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but we had an opportunity to make something special out of the program after last year's seniors got back to the dance years ahead of schedule. So far, Haith hasn't achieved to the level that was expected him when we made him one of the highest paid in the history of the program.

Tulsa has had historically notable coaches, and that's what I demand.