Healthcare

[lawpoke87]

As far as healthcare either go to single payer or open the markets back up to competition and consumer choice of plans. Most of us knew what eliminating competition and options would do to prices. Most of us knew the idea that healthcare costs would go down as providers weren’t passing on the cost of caring for the uninsured AND those savings would be passed on via lower insurance rates was misguided. We had multiple discussions during the drafting and implementation of Obamcare. This is one of those cases where I’m disappointed to be proven correct.

I’ve said many times an industry where you can’t price and service shop doesn’t work in our capitalistic model. Not sure why this concept isn’t universally understood. Our current health care model might be the worse possible combination we could have chosen. Costs will continue to rapidly rise due to the lack of competition and choice in the marketplace. My company has seen insurance premiums more than triple since 2010. This simply isn’t sustainable for most small to medium sized businesses and in turn their employees.

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

 

[aTUfan]

Aca failed. Only 10% of the people it was suspose to help, opted in.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

As far as healthcare either go to single payer or open the markets back up to competition and consumer choice of plans. Most of us knew what eliminating competition and options would do to prices. Most of us knew the idea that healthcare costs would go down as providers weren’t passing on the cost of caring for the uninsured AND those savings would be passed on via lower insurance rates was misguided. We had multiple discussions during the drafting and implementation of Obamcare. This is one of those cases where I’m disappointed to be proven correct.

I’ve said many times an industry where you can’t price and service shop doesn’t work in our capitalistic model. Not sure why this concept isn’t universally understood. Our current health care model might be the worse possible combination we could have chosen. Costs will continue to rapidly rise due to the lack of competition and choice in the marketplace. My company has seen insurance premiums more than triple since 2010. This simply isn’t sustainable for most small to medium sized businesses and in turn their employees.

I’ll get off my soapbox now.

And you can't truly open it up to the market with competition and consumer choice doing anything to resolve the real problems. It is too convoluted with insurance companies having a vested interest as the go between. They will always do everything they can to hide the real costs, and keep the consumer blind. That has only been a half measure due to insurance lobbyists.

 

[aTUfan]

What exactly does single payer mean?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

What exactly does single payer mean?

The government is the only entity paying for the coverage, most likely funded through taxes. In this system, the term "single-payer" refers to the government.

As in NOT multiple Insurance firms as payers. As in, if the government is the only payer to the healthcare industry, then they can help dictate the prices that are paid for procedures and drugs.

 

[aTUfan]

Only one payer, the government pays for the insurance. Which insurance co? And the government can determine medical costs.

Sounds like government run Healthcare. Why bother with health insurance?
Now we need a whole bunch on new federal employees to run it. Not really the role of the government but Good for job creation.

Instead, why doesn't the government perform within its purview and do what what it does best, create taxes and tax deductions.
Just ceate large bonus tax deductions for business tha provide private HI for its employees, and large bonus tax deduction for individuals that buy their own private HI.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Only one payer, the government pays for the insurance. Which insurance co? And the government can determine medical costs.

Sounds like government run Healthcare. Why bother with health insurance?
Now we need a whole bunch on new federal employees to run it. Not really the role of the government but Good for job creation.

Instead, why doesn't the government perform within its purview and do what what it does best, create taxes and tax deductions.
Just ceate large bonus tax deductions for business tha provide private HI for its employees, and large bonus tax deduction for individuals that buy their own private HI.

It is government run insurance. Much more efficient. Most 1st world countries have it this way. The US is the only one who doesn't. Guess what, our system is the most costly and inefficient system in the world. Half the Republicans on here want it. But you already knew all that before you asked the question in the first place.

 

[aTUfan]

Where does the government get the money to pay for it.

 

[shon46]

Where does the government get the money to pay for it.

That’s the problem. Everyone acts like it’s so simple. All these small European countries that have the universal health system are much smaller and its still hardly manageable even for them. The infrastructure to build a system that big would require an obscene amount of money.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

BS

Everybody pays SS fees that are way less than what they would pay in insurance. There is no building it from scratch. It would simply be an expansion. Medicare is already set up for retirees and disabled. It would expand to people who choose it, and eventually to everybody if it is a success. There would be and increase in SS pay in, but the cost would not be greater than insurance. Medicare is way more efficient than insurance already. Overhead is much less. And the larger Medicare gets the more influence it has on prices.

The system now, and before Obamacare isn't, and wasn't working. I'd say it's worth a few years trying to see if it works. I doubt it would be any worse than the systems we have used over the last 30+ years. If it is just as bad, then move to a new plan.

There is no republican plan right now. The lazy party goal is to go back to the same thing we have done a 100 times before. Relying on competition in the insurance industry to make it work is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Pushing for opening up more competition between insurance, and making costs more public has always been the goal. Insurance lobbyists always get in the way of that. Corrupt political relationships between lobbyists and politicians will deny that from happening till the end of time.

 

[shon46]

Your lack of intellect and understanding of how gov works continues to handicap your responses. You say we wouldn’t need to start from scratch, just expand. Ok, What current gov office would oversee your proposed system? How much would it cost to conduct a study to assess what is needed for this system? How much would it cost to sustain this system? How much would it cost to develop card or some identification mechanism that says you are legally entitled to health benefits under your new system? How much would it cost to distribute this identification? How many people are needed to run this system? What positions are needed? How much would it cost the gov to add new gov positions (we aren’t cheap)? As we saw in the first year of the Obamacare rollout, the database was a huge issue, locking millions out of the system as it crashed. What database would be used to foster the sharing of medical information across the board and how much will that database cost? In theory, your idea sounds easy to accomplish until you actually put pen to paper and assign a dollar sign to these ideas. I agree and am on board with the idea that we need to find something better than we have but it’s not as easy as you think it is!

 

[aTUfan]

The old system, private insurance through my work, worked for 50 years.
Aca screwed up everything.


I never understood how with the obamacara mandate you could get the guy living under a bridge to comply.

Oh! And my Medicare cost about
$10,000.00/year. Current premium for part A, D and F is $4,000.00/year and $6,000.00/year fica deduction from my paycheck for 50 years

If the government is running the show, you should hope you never need to contact them for assistance.

ie Dmv, social security office, va, ...
4 to 8 hour in person wait times

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Lo and behold we already have a medicare card. It works fine for everyone in the medicare system now. Never said it was easy, just necessary.

 

[astonmartin708]

The old system, private insurance through my work, worked for 50 years.
Aca screwed up everything.


I never understood how with the obamacara mandate you could get the guy living under a bridge to comply.

Oh! And my Medicare cost about
$10,000.00/year. Current premium for part A, D and F is $4,000.00/year and $6,000.00/year fica deduction from my paycheck for 50 years

If the government is running the show, you should hope you never need to contact them for assistance.

ie Dmv, social security office, va, ...
4 to 8 hour in person wait times

My current employer sponsored plan now costs $13,400 for a single person per year and that’s with a $900 deductible which makes it more or less unusable for anything but emergencies. (Though they did finally add a copay option to see a doctor) The employer takes care of 85% of that premium cost, passing on $2000 (and climbing) to each individual.

If every person was on a Medicare type plan rather than just the elderly who have to use the plan the most then I would imagine it would cost somewhere closer to $8K / person per year as the cost was spread to healthy individuals. That would mean savings of nearly 30% per year for people like me and a much more useable plan in terms of being able to see their doctor. Heck, I would love to see $10K per year like you. After my employer’s contribution, that would mean $125 savings for me every month. Not to mention better drug prices...

 

[aTUfan]

Before aca Corp HI plans were afordable, aca changed all that.

 

[astonmartin708]

Before aca Corp HI plans were afordable, aca changed all that.

Though there is mixed data on this, many statistics show that premiums were rising at a higher rate Pre-Obamacare than Post Obamacare.

Employer Sponsored plans went up 98% between 2000-2008 and 43% between 2008-2016.

 

[URedskin54]

Though there is mixed data on this, many statistics show that premiums were rising at a higher rate Pre-Obamacare than Post Obamacare.

Employer Sponsored plans went up 98% between 2000-2008 and 43% between 2008-2016.

I seem to remember a pretty big thing happening in 2008-2009 that suppressed prices for almost all good and services for years

 

[astonmartin708]

I seem to remember a pretty big thing happening in 2008-2009 that suppressed prices for almost all good and services for years

True. In any case, there's countering evidence that Obama are made it worse for employer sponsored plans that would have been seeing large hikes under the previous free for all system as well.

The old system wasn't working either (if it was Obama care wouldn't habe been a thing) and that's essentially what Republicans in congress essentially want to go back to. We streamline the industry and place more regulation on hospital pricing \ prescription drugs in my opinion. If we can regulate the water company's rates because they're a public utility necessary for the sustainability of our society then we should also be able to regulate rates for non-elective \ emergency healthcare

 

[lawpoke87]

Though there is mixed data on this, many statistics show that premiums were rising at a higher rate Pre-Obamacare than Post Obamacare.

Employer Sponsored plans went up 98% between 2000-2008 and 43% between 2008-2016.

Premiums were not rising at a faster rate pre Obamacare. What employees of larger companies are paying haven’t risen as quickly because the employers is paying a greater percentage of the premium. Largely due to the tightening labor market. The premium is the total cost of the insurance paid to the insurance company not the portion paid by the employee.

 

[astonmartin708]

Premiums were not rising at a faster rate pre Obamacare. What employees of larger companies are paying haven’t risen as quickly because the employers is paying a greater percentage of the premium. Largely due to the tightening labor market. The premium is the total cost of the insurance paid to the insurance company not the portion paid by the employee.

Yeah, that's not what the data I've seen says. I'm well aware of what 'Premium' means. Employers aren't paying a larger percentage of the premium than they have in the past. They're paying, on average 82% which is actually lower than they were pre-Obamacare when they paid on average 84% in 2009. I always thought the idea of a 'tightening labor market' was a joke. Ask anyone who has looked for a job in the past 4 years if they felt that there were more than enough jobs out there for them. They will tell you that you're crazy.

 

[lawpoke87]

Yeah, that's not what the data I've seen says. I'm well aware of what 'Premium' means. Employers aren't paying a larger percentage of the premium than they have in the past. They're paying, on average 82% which is actually lower than they were pre-Obamacare when they paid on average 84% in 2009. I always thought the idea of a 'tightening labor market' was a joke. Ask anyone who has looked for a job in the past 4 years if they felt that there were more than enough jobs out there for them. They will tell you that you're crazy.

That’s precisely the data I’ve seen. If your correct then the ACA has reduced the increase in premiums for plans sold to large corporations while substantially increasing plan costs for those who purchase individually or through small businesses.

I deal with people looking for jobs on almost a daily basis. We’re at the point where we simply can’t fill positions with qualified candidates. If anyone knows anyone who wants to work in the title and closing business let me know .

 

[astonmartin708]

That’s precisely the data I’ve seen. If your correct then the ACA has reduced the increase in premiums for plans sold to large corporations while substantially increasing plan costs for those who purchase individually or through small businesses.

I deal with people looking for jobs on almost a daily basis. We’re at the point where we simply can’t fill positions with qualified candidates. If anyone knows anyone who wants to work in the title and closing business let me know .

What level of qualification are you looking for? What I've seen is that employers (not necessarily your business) are extremely weary to hire people unless they are overqualified, but they tend to pay them like they're just starting out.

It's become a running gag that employers are now asking for 10 years work experience in processes / programs that have only been around for 5 years. This guy invented a certain subset of a programming language in 09' and was asked by a recruiter if he had 7 to 10 years experience with it in 2016.

My personal experience is probably a bit skewed because of the industry I was in, but it took me 3+ years, hundreds of applications, multiple interviews with multiple companies, a complete industry change, and retraining myself in data analytics during my free time to find a job that was a step up given the engineering experience I had.

 

[aTUfan]

So employers are looking for experienced, dependable, productive people.

 

[astonmartin708]

So employers are looking for experienced, dependable, productive people.

The bigger issue is that they're unwilling to train people, even for positions that would have, in previous decades been 'entry level', especially for people with college degrees and they're trying to get away with underpaying experienced applicants, at the same level that they would have paid entry-level employees for those same gigs.

 

[aTUfan]

If you get a job offer and you think it is unfair, don't take the job. You have a choice.

I had 40 years of experience and productivity when I got laid off. I accepred a job at 38% less than what I was earning. I demonstrated my value to the company and my salary quickly increased.

 

[astonmartin708]

If you get a job offer and you think it is unfair, don't take the job. You have a choice.

I had 40 years of experience and productivity when I got laid off. I accepred a job at 38% less than what I was earning. I demonstrated my value to the company and my salary quickly increased.

It’s also a trend that companies are less willing to promote from within these days. I’m just telling you what millennials are dealing with. I don’t expect you to understand. It’s not that they want a hand out. They just want similar opportunities to what previous generations had.

I’ve heard stories of people’s parents having bought their houses for 60-70K in the 70’s and by the mid 80’s they were making 60-70K as company managers. And no offense but it’s been statistically proven that it’s increasingly harder to get a new position as you go beyond your 40’s. I’m not talking about people who don’t know how to use a computer trying to get jobs at tech companies. I’m talking about problems that people are having 5-10 years out of school in what are supposed to be prime years for employee marketability.

 

[aTUfan]

Ok, what is the solution?

 

[astonmartin708]

Ok, what is the solution?

Start actually competing with China and Europe for high skill jobs. Stop training all of there youth at our universities just for them to use their education to steal our society’s knowledge and research. Stop saddling Our own kids with insurmountable student loan debt that they’re having to combat for years after graduation. Regulate the price of higher education to slow needless tuition increases.
Mandate that public institutions must use a certain portion of net profits from athletics proceeds to fund capital costs of funding items that benefit all students on campus in academics or cost of attendance instead of the money going to just athletes, coaches, or administration.
Put a salary cap on all public employees at public universities tied to a COLA.

 

[aTUfan]

I would suggest eliminating degree programs in ethnic studies, history, English, art and music appreciation. Not to many job postings for these.

Emphasize engineering. Business ( finance, accounting, management ), science.

Yes college costs are out of site. Don't make it fre but provide earned tuition credit for the next term based on GPA.

 

[TUMe]

No on cutting out history and English. Both are a part of understanding our country. History also includes other countries and our own. English is the language that most of us use. Try filling out a resume or application with misspelled words, poor grammar, and slang terms. History lesson, the Germans really didn't attack Pearl Harbor.

 

[astonmartin708]

I would suggest eliminating degree programs in ethnic studies, history, English, art and music appreciation. Not to many job postings for these.

Emphasize engineering. Business ( finance, accounting, management ), science.

Yes college costs are out of site. Don't make it fre but provide earned tuition credit for the next term based on GPA.

There are fewer people going for those degrees than you think. In fact I don’t think Music Appreciation is a degree program many places. The other thing is, there is a need for high school music teachers just like there is a need for high school football coaches (gets which students get more money directed to them while they’re in school)
Populations of school majors tend to balance out with job demand over time. It’s not only the philosophy majors having trouble getting jobs these days it’s STEM and business kids too.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

No on all those program cuts. I don't think anybody has a degree in music APPRECIATION. Nor is there an English degree in the US. Those are class offerings at best. English Literature on the other hand ✋ is a major.

Those majors train 🚆 one in critical thinking 🤔 that leads to positions as Executives, CEO`s, advertising execs, writers, journalists, orchestra musicians, conductors, musicians of all types, museum curators, grant writers, product manual writers, legal writers, medical writers, military generals, senators, representatives, governors, presidents, band directors, mathemeticians, theoretical physics scientists, theologians, attorneys, etc., etc. I have only begun to address where those majors can lead. Your thinking 🤔 is so incredibly limited.

You embarrass your fathers profession and your fathers generation. In the 50's and before there was liberal arts education in both secondary and post 📬 secondary schools. It played a serious role in giving birth to the greatest generation. Now it has been almost eradicated from both secondary and post secondary schools. People like you need to be ignored. And there also is a need for positions to keep it in our education system, as to train 🚆 teachers and professors.

I am going by your lack of any ability to communicate in the english language, that you have equal inabilities in all of the majors you consider superfluous.(Go to the dictionary if you need to.) I'd say 💭 don't talk about what you don't know, but that would be really limiting for you.

The only one that might have some merit or rational arguments to be cut back might be ethnic studies as a major, rather than as a specialization in a social science major.

 

[astonmartin708]

No on cutting out history and English. Both are a part of understanding our country. History also includes other countries and our own. English is the language that most of us use. Try filling out a resume or application with misspelled words, poor grammar, and slang terms. History lesson, the Germans really didn't attack Pearl Harbor.

I Like the school maintaining certain non-mainstream colleges / degree programs that a few kids go into each year as long as the school is making them competent for employment in that field later. It also benefits STEM/ business majors / etc... who want to minor in something outside their field. I know that I have two minors. One in music and one in geology. Music (at least performance) or art teaches you good practice habits and what it takes to perfect your craft instead of always just doing things in order to cut costs and maximize profits.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

If you aren't a troll, you are a repulsive little man 👨.

 

[aTUfan]

No on cutting out history and English. Both are a part of understanding our country. History also includes other countries and our own. English is the language that most of us use. Try filling out a resume or application with misspelled words, poor grammar, and slang terms. History lesson, the Germans really didn't attack Pearl Harbor.

I said a degree program. Obviously you still need classes in english, history, government, geography, etal.


You don't need a class in shakespear to fill out a job application.

How many people can calculate correct change for a purchase.

 

[lawpoke87]

We’ve had this discussion several times in one form or the other. I not against those liberal art majors. Some of the most intelligent people I know have liberal art degrees. What I would like to see is all incoming college freshman go through one on one financial counseling before going into six figure debt for a career path which averages $40k a year. All majors should receive this counseling. Here’s what you’re likely to make. This amount will be your take home. Housing, transportation, insurance, food will cost this amount and your student loan payments will be this. Many kids have no idea what they’re getting into. To them it’s free money.

 

[aTUfan]

I'm not dissing these degrees; I have a liberal arts degree in math.

What can you do with a math degree? Multipy without a calculator?
Teach? No you need another degree for that.

I was fortunate that I also took several accounting courses. That is what got me my first job.

 

[lawpoke87]

I would also track the graduation rates for those students who receive federal loans on a college by college basis. Those schools who perform poorly in this area would risk facing cutbacks in federal loan money.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I'm not dissing these degrees; I have a liberal arts degree in math.

What can you do with a math degree? Multipy without a calculator?
Teach? No you need another degree for that.

I was fortunate that I also took several accounting courses. That is what got me my first job.

But you WERE dissing those degrees. That's exactly what you were doing.

Now you're backing out of your statement, when you realized many people on the board for a liberal arts institution, are coming out with valid points in support of liberal arts. Surprise, surprise 🎁.

 

[shon46]

The way it works is big corporations and the ultra rich meet with Universities and say we need these skills over the next 10/20 yrs. The schools then goes back and adjust their curriculum. We are now on the cusp of the 4th industrial revolution and it’s fair to assume there will be another substantial change in curriculum just as there always historical been. Just my opinion but AI has become God! I bet less universities will teach critical thinking bc the AI will be doing most of that for us in the future.