That is the only thing he did and, it was a partial ban.
He has failed at everything related to this up to and including protecting himself and his staff.
Healthcare
- Thread starter astonmartin708
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That is the only thing he did and, it was a partial ban.
He has failed at everything related to this up to and including protecting himself and his staff.
You are either trolling or dumb. I will go with troll. Trump closed the borders, stopped flights from China, mobilized the country under the war act, and temporarily shut down. This is exactly what almost every other Western country in the world did. Secondly, the virus was never worth shutting down our economy over or continuing with these stupid precautionary steps after more info was learned. Trump will be back at work shortly just like the other 99.9% of the people who get the China Virus.
He didn't shut down flights to and from Europe, which was just as important. He didn't stop Americans from coming back without quarantine. This included Chinese Americans who were in China visiting relatives or doing business, and non Chinese Americans who were there doing business or traveling as tourists. Essentially he did it in half measures. You always leave out the important stuff. It was an incredibly porous ban that didn't stop the virus from coming in. If it fails a little, then it fails fully. Dumb or troll, I'll go with troll.
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How quickly we forget Pelosi in Chinatown being pimped by her Chinese handlers calling Trump racist for wanting to shut borders. Dems blocked and demonized Trump every step of the way as he took action because they were so hell bent on impeachment. Just like sports, after every game there is a critique. When you are the QB for the country, you get blamed even when it’s not your fault. The President cant don’t everything on his own and the team can’t win when half of it is fighting to overthrow the other!
I don't give a crap what Pelosi said, I'm a Republican. She can go jump in a lake for all I care. I'm talking about taking action, and doing what he had the power to do. I'm talking about listening to his advisers, and making a decision. We now know he took it seriously and was advised of the seriousness of it from the beginning. And he still didn't do what he should have.
We know he had advisers that would have told him about the necessity of quarantining returning citizens, and the necessity of shutting down European travel as well.(Even if he was obtusely ignorant of the situation.) He is the leader of the free world and he abdicated his duties through partial actions which needed full implementation.
Reagan didn't half ass his job because of the Iran Contra hearings, Clinton didn't fall asleep at the wheel because of his impeachment. Regardless of whether one supports either of those politicians, you cannot say they abdicated their duties because of other things going on at the same time. They were able to multitask and not be affected by other actions going on at the moment. That's what it takes to be the leader of the free world.
Trump is not qualified. He was not asked to do everything on his own. That's what his advisers are for. You saying he can't do everything on his own, is a piss ass excuse, and is justification of his half ass actions. We hold our politicians to a higher standard, and pretty much all of them meet up to that standard way better than he does.
We know he had advisers that would have told him about the necessity of quarantining returning citizens, and the necessity of shutting down European travel as well.(Even if he was obtusely ignorant of the situation.) He is the leader of the free world and he abdicated his duties through partial actions which needed full implementation.
Reagan didn't half ass his job because of the Iran Contra hearings, Clinton didn't fall asleep at the wheel because of his impeachment. Regardless of whether one supports either of those politicians, you cannot say they abdicated their duties because of other things going on at the same time. They were able to multitask and not be affected by other actions going on at the moment. That's what it takes to be the leader of the free world.
Trump is not qualified. He was not asked to do everything on his own. That's what his advisers are for. You saying he can't do everything on his own, is a piss ass excuse, and is justification of his half ass actions. We hold our politicians to a higher standard, and pretty much all of them meet up to that standard way better than he does.
Again, you have to justify Trump mistakes by calling out others instead of holding him accountable.
The US handled this worse than any country in the world despite having as much or more lead time than most of those countries.
A list of states where more than 0.1% of the entire population have died of the virus. Note we do not have a 100% infection rate in any of these locations. Officially the highest infection rate of any of these states is about 3.5%. Given asymptomatic cases and people that just recover at home and never get tested, I'd say there's an upper bound of about a 10% infection rate in any of these states.
New Jersey: 0.183%
New York: 0.1712%
Massachusetts: 0.138%
Connecticut: 0.1266%
Louisiana: 0.1202%
Rhode Island: 0.1058%
Mississippi: 0.1012%
In his age demographic, it has about a 5% IFR so far as I can tell. He's not overwhelmingly likely to die from it or anything, but I know I would not be happy to be in any situation that had a 5% chance of death. He'll get the very best care from the very best doctors, so I think he will likely be fine eventually. But that should not give you license to treat this illness so cavalierly. Most people do not have unrestricted access to the most promising experimental drugs available with 24/7 care from world-class doctors. I'm not begrudging him that, but it's not particularly compelling evidence that the disease is minor if he survives.
I got no care. I didn’t need it. I didn’t even know I had it until after the fact. This is less lethal than the flu but people still freak out as if it’s the plague. It’s dangerous but very very overhyped.
Let’s address the elephant in the room which is the economy. A decision was intentionally made that keeping the economy open was more important than saving the less than 1% that have died. I am truly saddened by those who have lost loved ones but the lives of a few do not outweigh the lives of the many. Therefore, I believe that keeping the economy open with little to no restrictions is the right choice.
Let’s address the elephant in the room which is the economy. A decision was intentionally made that keeping the economy open was more important than saving the less than 1% that have died. I am truly saddened by those who have lost loved ones but the lives of a few do not outweigh the lives of the many. Therefore, I believe that keeping the economy open with little to no restrictions is the right choice.
Most people don't need care. Doesn't mean much, honestly. It's a fickle virus.
The flu infects 30 million people per year and kills maybe 30,000.
COVID has thus far infected 7.5 million (officially) and killed 200,000+.
Generously accounting for unreported cases, let's say 15 million infected. That's half as many infections and 7x the number of deaths. That makes it more than 10x deadlier than the flu using a generous accounting.
You can have a different opinion on what the best public policy is regarding the virus, and that's okay. You can say we should open everything back up again. I disagree, but you are entitled to that. But whatever your opiniopn, it should be rooted in facts, not fantasy. Stop spreading FUD. Seriously, stop it.
We differ in the numbers of people killed by only the China Virus as we know the way they count People infected and the deaths are overinflated. At first, the CDC/WHO said 1 positive test meant 15 were people infected. We know China was selling bogus test. The Tanzanian President exposed that fact and countries that stopped using the Chinese test had significant reduced numbers of people that tested positive. If you take the number of people in the US who had no known pre existing medical condition, the number is around estimated anywhere from 12,000 to 15,000 people. Other countries use that same method to account for actual deaths and it baffles me why we don’t account for the China virus deaths the same way we do with the flu.
That's because in March we did not have very good testing capabilities. It is still a bit lacking, but it has improved dramatically since then. And the undiagnosed cases from March are dwarfed by the surges we've had since then. We have not had 100million cases in this country. There are people who stay at home and don't bother getting tested, but it's fewer than you think. Most employers want a test result before you take time off for COVID, so there is some incentive for a lot of people to get tested. My wife and others in the hospital get tested fairly regularly, just in case. Funny though, they've had only a couple of positive cases in 6 months. Not even close to a third of the workforce, which is what we should expect if 100 million people have had it.
The people who were unable to get a test in March/April, and the people who just sit at home and never get tested are why I doubled the number of infections in my previous post. I thought that was being fairly generous. But hey, let's triple it. Now there are 21 million cases, and 200,000+ deaths. That is still a factor of ten deadlier than the flu.
The main issue with the early tests were false negatives, not positives. And besides, the US developed our own test as well at first. It was even worse than the "China test". Also, nice of you to trust the Tanzanian president over Western leaders with access to more reputable infectious disease experts.
First of all, your argument is predicated on the idea of "Some deaths count more than others". If we did the same for the flu, then the flu would kill only a couple hundred people a year. If you move the goalposts for one, you should move the goalposts for the other. It's still deadlier.
Second, your point seems to be that the US is a very unhealthy nation? I won't disagree, but it's not the great argument you think it is. If half your population is obese or above the age 65, you don't get to say "Obese deaths and above 65 deaths don't count!" And yes, obesity is a comorbidity.
That is just factually wrong.
I'm done now. Have "the last word" if you wish.
That wasn't my question. He is totally responsible for his actions. I was wondering if the others wore masks?
It is estimated that there were thousands of cases in NYC before they even had their first confirmed positive test. NYC then became the epicenter which exported most of the cases and outbreaks across the country. Trump will say his restrictions saved so many lives and critics will say his travel restrictions didn't go far enough, but none of the travel restrictions - not china, not europe - mattered. Banning travel out of NYC or all US travel in general may have helped, but very few were asking for that.
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It might have slowed the number of new infectious people coming into the country. Fewer initial spreaders means a slower rate and a more compatible infection with more ability to isolate cases as they arose.
during this political season we have heard a lot about insurance and "preexisting conditions". What is a preexisting condition?
You guys (and girls) see where the WHO is now estimating 780 million people worldwide have now been infected with the virus. That’s 10% of the world’s population for those who are math challenged. Source is Dr Michael Ryan head of emergencies for the WHO
What % of the world population have been infected with the flu or a cold? Besides just being publicly available information, I’m not sure what the importance of that info is. I would be more inclined to be alarmed if more than 2% of those infected people died.
Over the last 5 years, Flu deaths in the US are roughly 211K which is equal to COVID-19's 8 month run.
Also FWIW, the global fatality rate of COVID-19 is 2.8% if you divide deaths by cases.
A Dutch cancer patient has just become the first confirmed death as a result of believed re-infection with Covid... meaning the antibodies she developed after her initial bout with the virus weren't sufficient to combat the virus when she was re-infected. This could have far reaching consequences for anti-virals, or even people who think they're invulnerable just because they got it once...
www.foxnews.com
Dutch woman dies after coronavirus reinfection, case report says
Nearly two months after her first coronavirus infection, the woman developed a fever, developed a cough and had difficulty breathing.
Reinfection has been documented beyond just cancer patients though. It's applicable in that a "vaccine" will only be a temporary cure, and a cure that might not last a long time. We also have no idea if a vaccine will be as effective the second time you take it.
If a bunch of the elderly folks that somehow survived a monster first round with the virus, get it again... we might be in big trouble.
Is it fair to compare those fatality numbers? Health care providers are listing the COD as covid if the deceased died with covid. In order to be a flu death it must be the primary cause of death. Financial incentives obviously play a part with the covid death COD. Does anyone know how many of these covid deaths are instances where covid was a secondary COD opposed to a primary? I assume the number isn't huge but that data would certainly be interesting and eliminate a lot of the speculation.
Re-infection will start to occur eventually. This really isn’t in question. The question is for a typical person what will that re-infection look like and how far in the future? There’s not much we can extrapolate from an immune compromised cancer patient.
That is not true. It is a COVID death if COVID is the primary cause of death. Period.
source: my wife, who is an ICU nurse who treats COVID patients and other patients at death‘s door.
There might be some edge cases here and there where an autopsy that never happened would be required to really tell what the actual primary cause of death was, but it’s a rounding error at best.
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It is true that if someone dies of a car accident, and they have a known COVID infection, that it does show up on their death certificate (but not as the primary cause of death), but that has to do mostly with making sure that the patients organs don‘t go into the organ donation pool. It’s not some conspiracy to inflate the death numbers. It is also something that happens with flu and other infectious diseases, so there is nothing special about COVID in that sense.
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Thanks for the reply. My information comes from a nurse as well. One currently working with terminal cancer patients. If a terminal patient contracts Covid and dies with Covid her hospital is listed those deaths as Covid deaths. This is not the protocol they use should a terminal patient catch the flu or other secondary infection and pass away. Those are listed as cancer deaths. Now this is just one hospital and doesn’t mean the practice is widespread. I just thought the difference in protocol was interesting. Maybe there are financial reasons for the differences?
Maricopa County acknowledged a while back that anyone who dies within 60 days of a positive covid test is counted as a “covid-associated death” and included in their numbers. I’m not sure how common that methodology is, but on the other side of it there are probably tons of people not included in the count who got sick and were never tested and then later died of covid symptoms. I’m not real sure what to make of the numbers beyond looking at excess deaths, but even those get a bit fuzzy because there were upticks in other deaths during lockdowns, including a big increase in dementia deaths due to isolation.
I can't speak for what's going on where you are, obviously. But I will say that if there was a chance to earn an extra nickel off of a "COVID" death, my wife's hospital would be exhuming everyone who died since February to test their corpse and collect, ethics be damned.
The mistake Republicans made with aca was touching it. They should have left it alone and let it die under its own weight.
I agree... why don't we all have it? Oh yeah.... the insurance industry didn't want us to.
I'll gladly take the exact same healthcare that congress has and the same retirement!!
