Election & Probability of Supreme Court Ruling
- Thread starter shon46
- Start date
Shon you do know this is exactly something that a party in a dictatorship would do to try to consolidate and hold onto power. They disregard election results.
This is incredibly dangerous to a republic.
This is incredibly dangerous to a republic.
Im not debating an opinion of what should or shouldn’t be done. There are laws that clearly state the Parameters to work within. I simply want to know the process to get to whatever endstate there is.
nah, they’re giving their sad voters and candidate a pacifier. No one thinks any of these lawsuits will do anything.
If thats what it takes for people to continue to have confidence and believe that US system is fair and just than that’s what needs to happen.
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It better f’ing end when the electors vote in December. If it doesn’t then you will really be supporting a despot.
Why rush the process? There were 77 Mil people who voted for Trump. If you rush this process, you run the Risk of those 77 Mil Trump voters perceiving an injustice which could lead to them losing total faith in our system. That could have devastating consequences to our republic. If Trump has no leg to stand on, let it all shake out in the wash. Then there is no debate on an Biden being illegitimate
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71 million (and counting). Biden has 75 million (and counting).
The electoral college is a legally mandated thing on a specific date. That's why. It can't be "put off". If it doesn't happen, then the election gets thrown to congress. If you want an impartial and fair interpretation of election results, that is definitely not the place to send it. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11641
Also, as defined in the Constitution, the president's term ends on January 20, 2021. If we don't have an election victory by then, Trump's term still ends. If Trump and Pence have to vacate the office on that day pending the outcome of an ongoing dispute, guess who becomes president (if only a placeholder until Congress acts)? Nancy Pelosi. Have fun with that.
71M for Trump. 75.6M for Biden.
Did the dems throw this big of a fit in 2016 when Trump lost the popular vote but won the electoral votes?
I'm all for recounts in states where the difference is under 1% like in AZ, WI, GA, and PA but I don't see any lawsuits going anywhere.
After the USPS mess Trump created, the ballot box issues with some Republican states, Trump telling his people to go and protect the polling places, then him telling them to show up and protect ballot counting, I think the Dems have a better case for election inference than Trump does for any fraud. If which, I have yet to see any proof of.
It's all decided Dec 14th.
So the most recount ever did was add about +500 votes into the Gore column in 2000. He still lost by 1000 or so votes in FL. Seeing as how the states within the 1% are all above 5000 vote difference, the likelihood of recounts changing the result significantly are very low.
There is also a recent report that there are as many as 30% of mail in ballots in FL and NC not processed by the USPS. I don't know the validity of the story. But it would also corroborate that the judicial order to the USPS to sweep postal facilities which included districts in FL and NC, was not adhered to or completed.
All the other criticisms are valid, but yes, they kinda did. There was a 2 year long investigation into Russian collusion (which I didn't object to) based mostly on Dems being unable to accept that they lost an election fairly. Hillary was still insisting last week that the election was stolen from her.
None of this detracts from the fact that the way Trump is acting right now is pathetic though.
We could literally spend a whole year discussing the reasons why Republicans have 0 trust for Dems, causing them to feel however they currently feel about the election but I won’t. My focus is strictly on asking for the legal process needed for resolution.
This probably doesn't help their claim either:
atlanta.cbslocal.com
ATLANTA, Ga. (CW69 News at 10/CNN) – Georgia’s Republican Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said Monday his office has not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud or irregularities in his state as President Donald Trump continues to claim a second term in office was stolen from him.
Joe Biden, who declared victory in the election after winning Pennsylvania Saturday, is ahead of Trump in the Peach State by at least 10,498 votes as of Monday morning. CNN has not projected a winner in Georgia.
Trump has not conceded the election and he continues claim fraudulent votes, but has not yet presented any credible evidence to support it.
Georgia GOP Lieutenant Governor: 'No Credible Examples' Of Voter Fraud
Georgia's Republican Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said Monday his office has not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud or irregularities in his state as President Donald Trump continues to claim a second term in office was stolen from him.
atlanta.cbslocal.com
ATLANTA, Ga. (CW69 News at 10/CNN) – Georgia’s Republican Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said Monday his office has not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud or irregularities in his state as President Donald Trump continues to claim a second term in office was stolen from him.
Joe Biden, who declared victory in the election after winning Pennsylvania Saturday, is ahead of Trump in the Peach State by at least 10,498 votes as of Monday morning. CNN has not projected a winner in Georgia.
Trump has not conceded the election and he continues claim fraudulent votes, but has not yet presented any credible evidence to support it.
They also lobbied state electors to go rogue and not vote for Trump.
As for your post, I think that's a fair assesment. I think the Russian collusion stuff was an important thing to do. But the Dems made the emphasis so much on Trump's potential involvement with it that the actual big story essentially was sidelined: The fact that the Russians provably did in fact inundate us with propaganda on Twitter and Facebook that definitively favored one side. It was important to find that out, but Dems had a hard time accepting that nobody could prove Trump was involved.
Russian source propaganda doesn't invalidate our election by any means whatsoever. Trump won fair and square, and I want to make it clear that I believe that. But it is a real problem that we should defend ourselves against. It's our election, and other nations should butt out of our business. Whether they fear we will vote for Trump or Biden or Clinton or Lyndon LaRouche. It's our choice and they should not be allowed to try and influence us.
The electoral count for Trump is 71.4 million. If Trump steals the election with supreme court picks he never should have been allowed then you're going to have the 76 million Biden voters (a majority of Americans mind you) completely lose faith in a system that has failed to operate in a fair and just manner time after time due to Republicans in Washington. Trump shouldn't have a leg to stand on, but he appointed the judges that are ultimately going to be judging his chances, and the Republicans in congress (most of them at least) are taking his side already even though there has been zero confirmed cases of election fraud proven by the Trump campaign despite many baseless allegations.
If Democrats were going to cheat... why would they cheat and make it so close? The polls all said they were supposed to win by more. No one would have really been surprised if they had. Also, do you know the level of conspiracy it would take to cheat in two REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED states and another one that was the most contested and watched state in the race... and for zero people to blab about it? These parties can't keep anything a secret and you think the Democrats are now secret masterminds? Why weren't they secret masterminds in 2016, when they had control of the Presidency? This entire thing is so dumb... but the people who will eventually adjudicate it are pretty dumb too so it wouldn't surprise me if Trump actually steals it.
I think most Democrats recognize that the outcome was the proper one given the system... but they contend that the system itself is broken. A person should not need 2-4 million more votes than another person just to barely beat them.
Yeah, “We lost under the current rules, therefore we must change the rules” underpins a lot of dem proposals these days (packing the court, adding states, getting rid of the electoral college, getting rid of equal representation in the Senate). It’s an understandable impulse - nobody likes to lose - but I’m not persuaded by the narrowly majority party being upset that the system doesn’t give them more power with their narrow majority and, occasionally, allows the narrowly minority party to win.
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They don't do it because simply because they don't like losing. (No one did it in 2004 for example) what they don't like is a system that constantly stacks the deck against the MAJORITY just because of where they sleep at night. Doing that once is bad... doing it year after year in multiple branches of the government becomes oppressive. It negates the need for various parts of the country to build coalitions and it has evidently led to the minority abandoning logic and reason altogether because they don't need logic and reason when it behooves them more to keep their power in the minority unchanging.
For the majority to win they must do so in such overwhelming numbers that all fairness is tossed out the window. It would be like saying Tulsa is only allowed to beat OU or OSU if it outscores them by 14 points, anything less and Tulsa loses because Sooner / Cowboy's are given 14 points for having campuses not in Tulsa.
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Correct. That is technically/legally when we will actually have a President-Elect. I'd prefer they change the mail-in ballot process to be post-marked by a certain date that will allow the ballot time to get in and counted by election day. It would be nice to have the mail-in vote counted about the same time as the day-of vote like Florida did.
Probably the best thing that could happen is for Trump to get an investigation that finds little or no problem. That would leave Biden as president, but at least it would clear the air. Let someone talk to the FBI under penalty of perjury. That gets your attention.
If they’re going to do that then it needs to be done to all citizens including military members.
In 2016, Donald Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by a combined 77,000 votes; he got 306 electoral votes; and he received a concession speech by Hillary Clinton and a White House meeting with Barack Obama 48 hours after the election.
In 2020, Joe Biden won those same three states by a combined 214,000 votes (and counting); he’s on track for an identical 306 electoral votes; and Trump, his administration and GOP leaders are still refusing to recognize the outcome.
In appeasing Trump, the GOP toys with a constitutional crisis
First Read is your briefing from "Meet the Press" and the NBC Political Unit on the day's most important political stories and why they matter.
www.nbcnews.com
Much of that had to do with the timing. Trump was "called" the winner by networks late on election night, and Hillary gave a concession at like 2:30 am if I'm remembering right.
Due to the massive amount of mail-in ballots and the fact that several states (stupidly in my opinion) decided not to count the mail-in vote until election night, this election was up in the air for several days. With the claims of fraud/suppression/etc. during that time, whether legit or not, I don't think anyone expected a concession until any legal challenges were done. I'm guessing that's why the Biden camp said F it and went ahead with a victory speech instead of waiting.
Okay, but I do think deployed military should still get their normal extension. Hard to send in your ballot with time to spare if you are on a submarine when your ballot comes in and only get your mail in Japan a week before the election. Or you have to deal with delivery to/from Afghanistan. Domestic should be subject to the same rules as the rest of us though.
Suppose we adopt a rule that says mail-in ballots should be postmarked one week before the election. Would you still be amenable to allowing them to trickle in late if the mail were slow, but they were sent on time? There would certainly be a lot fewer of them, but I don't want to punish the sender just because it spent a week on the floor of a post office somewhere.
You can always check and see that your ballot has arrived/not arrived on time, but that doesn't always help. My wife, for example, works ICU shifts on Tuesdays from 7-7, and can't possibly vote on election day even if she knew her ballot weren't received on time.
That makes sense. There should definitely be accommodations made where necessary.
How the networks decided to call the election for Joe Biden
CNN was the first to announce Biden as the winner of the 2020 presidential election with others coming in over the next 15 minutes.
www.latimes.com
In 2016, Donald Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by a combined 77,000 votes; he got 306 electoral votes; and he received a concession speech by Hillary Clinton and a White House meeting with Barack Obama 48 hours after the election.
In 2020, Joe Biden won those same three states by a combined 214,000 votes (and counting); he’s on track for an identical 306 electoral votes; and Trump, his administration and GOP leaders are still refusing to recognize the outcome.
In appeasing Trump, the GOP toys with a constitutional crisis
First Read is your briefing from "Meet the Press" and the NBC Political Unit on the day's most important political stories and why they matter.
Joe Biden might be the anointed media champ but which state has officially declared a winner again? What happened to the count in Alaska? Are they really that slow or is something else going on behind the scenes? Check out the numbers......you see something there? 😂 What happened to the open FBI investigation into the Biden family? Do you think Trump forgot about the Dem playbook in 2016? 😂😂😂😂😂 Conceding is the last thing you will see until the courts have the final word!
Outstanding post. Someone in Afghanistan or at sea should not loose their vote because of a few days. They are making a bigger sacrifice than any of us setting at home or working in regular jobs.
Alaska really is always that slow and always has been. There are many places in rural Alaska that only send/receive mail once per week.
Plus, they tend to not announce as they go, I think they kind of wait until all the ballots are in and then announce it all at once.
In 2016, Donald Trump won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by a combined 77,000 votes; he got 306 electoral votes; and he received a concession speech by Hillary Clinton and a White House meeting with Barack Obama 48 hours after the election.
In 2020, Joe Biden won those same three states by a combined 214,000 votes (and counting); he’s on track for an identical 306 electoral votes; and Trump, his administration and GOP leaders are still refusing to recognize the outcome.
In appeasing Trump, the GOP toys with a constitutional crisis
First Read is your briefing from "Meet the Press" and the NBC Political Unit on the day's most important political stories and why they matter.
The tipping point states are actually different this time. Biden is on track to win AZ, WI, GA, and NE2 by a combined 45K-50K votes. If those had gone the other way we’d be looking at a 269-269 tie.
This probably doesn't help their claim either:
Georgia GOP Lieutenant Governor: 'No Credible Examples' Of Voter Fraud
Georgia's Republican Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said Monday his office has not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud or irregularities in his state as President Donald Trump continues to claim a second term in office was stolen from him.
ATLANTA, Ga. (CW69 News at 10/CNN) – Georgia’s Republican Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan said Monday his office has not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud or irregularities in his state as President Donald Trump continues to claim a second term in office was stolen from him.
Joe Biden, who declared victory in the election after winning Pennsylvania Saturday, is ahead of Trump in the Peach State by at least 10,498 votes as of Monday morning. CNN has not projected a winner in Georgia.
Trump has not conceded the election and he continues claim fraudulent votes, but has not yet presented any credible evidence to support it.
You don't need widespread voter fraud to swing an election in the United States. You need voter fraud in a few select cities in a few select states. Look at the numbers of the close states:
Biden Lead:
State Electors Vote difference, k
Wis 10 20
Penn 20 46
Nev 6 35
MI 16 145
AZ 11 15
GA 16 12
Trump Lead:
NC 15 75
94 electors swing on 350,000 votes. That is 0.25% of the total votes cast. You can call me a conspiracy theorist but with mail in balloting 350,000 votes would be easy to manipulate.
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This really shouldn’t become a thing, where the incumbent or the challenger just makes massive legal challenges in every single election cycle. It gives the illusion that they actually have something to complain about even if they really don’t. In Trump’s case, he’s not very far off from legitimately denying the validity of the election and refusing to leave office even without evidence and he’s actively grooming his supporters to back him in what would essentially be a coup.
But two of those aren’t places Trump is contesting because he has less than no case there.
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