Discredited
- Thread starter 04Watu
- Start date
No. Why do I care about its feelings? It makes derogatory and other insensitive comments all the time, which is amazing because it is an utter moron. But that’s usually how that works. Ever notice how these people with confederate flags don’t live in nice houses?
But you saw what it did to me when it got angry. Oh, the dead parents.
(They're laughing in heaven at the humor of this.)
Don't want yourself to be misunderstood.
For anyone interested, here are the links that actually do work from the State Department. They don't prove anything. The former Secretary of State only states that the government has reason to believe several researchers inside WIV became sick in the fall of 2019 before the first identified case of the outbreak occurred.
If I were to summarize the links: "The US government is dedicated to determining the origin of COVID-19, we think, maybe, it came from a WIV lab. China is not providing the access that WHO requires to perform a complete and unbiased investigation".
- Ensuring a Transparent, Thorough Investigation of COVID-19’s Origin
- Fact Sheet: Activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology
If I were to summarize the links: "The US government is dedicated to determining the origin of COVID-19, we think, maybe, it came from a WIV lab. China is not providing the access that WHO requires to perform a complete and unbiased investigation".
Thanks for some bits of facts about their suspicions. I hadn't heard that fact about having reason to believe workers got sick. Better than nothing but a statement. The media & reports I've seen haven't reported this. Still not absolute proof, and needs to be taken with grain of salt, until proof comes out. But we all know that proof may never be found. Would like to think the mainstream media didn't ignore it because it didn't suit their agenda. I have almost as much faith in that as I do of them finding evidence to support the suspicion. I have even less faith that 'it' ever saw this, about their reasoning.
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From the 2nd link:
"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses."
Does it though?
People started getting sick and dying in unusual statistical ways in December. The earliest confirmed outbreak cluster was in early December. The earliest possibly identified case is from mid-November. All are "Fall". Note that Pompeo doesn't bother to include any finer grained information than a three month block of time. Should we be surprised that in a three month block of time, out of a sample size of several hundred, that some people got the flu during flu season?
To summarize the argument: A few people working in a facility that employees hundreds of people got sick in the fall, and we don't know if it was COVID. Therefore, it was possibly COVID and it possibly originated from the lab itself? Sure, possibly. But that's incredibly speculative at best.
Pompeo can say what he wants. He's the only one saying it, and nobody else seems to have any idea what he's talking about. Were there any illnesses, COVID or otherwise, at the WIV in the Fall? I dunno. But the only source for that information is Pompeo.
A quote from Fauci:
"The best evidence shows the virus behind the pandemic was not made in a lab in China. Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species."
A quote from Pompeo:
"Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was man-made. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point"
If you are asking me who I trust to be more knowledgeable and truthful on the subject, it's the guy who actually has a career studying viruses. Not the craven politician from Kansas who is sucking up to Trump.
"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses. This raises questions about the credibility of WIV senior researcher Shi Zhengli’s public claim that there was “zero infection” among the WIV’s staff and students of SARS-CoV-2 or SARS-related viruses."
Does it though?
People started getting sick and dying in unusual statistical ways in December. The earliest confirmed outbreak cluster was in early December. The earliest possibly identified case is from mid-November. All are "Fall". Note that Pompeo doesn't bother to include any finer grained information than a three month block of time. Should we be surprised that in a three month block of time, out of a sample size of several hundred, that some people got the flu during flu season?
To summarize the argument: A few people working in a facility that employees hundreds of people got sick in the fall, and we don't know if it was COVID. Therefore, it was possibly COVID and it possibly originated from the lab itself? Sure, possibly. But that's incredibly speculative at best.
Pompeo can say what he wants. He's the only one saying it, and nobody else seems to have any idea what he's talking about. Were there any illnesses, COVID or otherwise, at the WIV in the Fall? I dunno. But the only source for that information is Pompeo.
A quote from Fauci:
"The best evidence shows the virus behind the pandemic was not made in a lab in China. Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species."
A quote from Pompeo:
"Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was man-made. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point"
If you are asking me who I trust to be more knowledgeable and truthful on the subject, it's the guy who actually has a career studying viruses. Not the craven politician from Kansas who is sucking up to Trump.
I created two post with the same information last week and very few had comments. The article on Faucis research with gain of function for the China virus implicates him in essentially helping to create the virus. The information was presented by the MSM and Fauci has yet to comment.
And somebody here is repeating it. Extending the possible dishonesty. That's why we're having this conversation, because someone on here acted like a weak megaphone. Supposedly Pompeo got it from researchers and/or investigators in the Justice Dept. This is what I'm assuming. But they didn't put any investigator's name on it. It's nice to have this fact.(that somebody in the justice dept said it) But even if true, without a real timeline and other facts we won't ever get, we'll never get down to the brass tacks of proof. Because as you noted, the timeline as of now, meets up with Covid natural, just as much as covid lab. Whether there was any aware or unaware truth in Pompeo's statement, he was counting on that.
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I work everyday with Men and women who create those products the figure heads brief. We don’t care about political agendas. We follow the evidence. Presidents come and go but the men and women who work to find the truth are there for the entirety of their careers. There is an extensive process that each piece of information goes through with input and validation from every agency. You make statements about gov info being fake but literally have absolutely no clue. Republicans said the same thing when I worked under Obama. The truth is the truth. It’s all cyclical. Everyone jumps on the flavor of the day. No worries! I will continue to educate you
Never said it was fake, just incomplete & possibly dishonestly used.(reading comprehension)
Attacking me, and only me, whilst ignoring many other intelligent people on the board saying the things I am commenting on.(One of them with past or present security clearance I believe.)
Hmmm, whose focused on whom. Who is struggling(and failing) to prove his false and/or inaccurate points against 5 or 6 posters.(in this instance)
Education failed the Trump Megaphone, why would I want any of it's failures.
Attacking me, and only me, whilst ignoring many other intelligent people on the board saying the things I am commenting on.(One of them with past or present security clearance I believe.)
Hmmm, whose focused on whom. Who is struggling(and failing) to prove his false and/or inaccurate points against 5 or 6 posters.(in this instance)
Education failed the Trump Megaphone, why would I want any of it's failures.
I don’t think it’s a megaphone, but I agree, it blows.
As a scientist that works for the government, I will just say this:
If something I do warrants a technical report, I type it up and give it to my project manager. They read it, and if it was an important enough idea or contribution, they regurgitate it in their own words to the next level up in their next quarterly report or what-have-you. Repeat ad nauseum until someone decides that whatever my contribution or idea was doesn't need to be specifically discussed at the next level.
By the time it gets to the Director of the NNSA or an Undersecretary of Energy, it has been read, interpreted, and regurgitated by many people. Some of who may have a good background in my technical area, and others who have zero training in my field whatsoever. Whatever I write has to be written in such a way that a non-technical person will be able to read it and explain it succintly to another non-technical person, after having been interpreted by ten other people before that.
To say that there can be comically bad misunderstandings throughout that process is an understatement. If a Cabinet level bigwig wanted to only hear information from the lower ranks that they wanted to hear, whether it was an accurate representation of the original work or not, it wouldn't be very hard to arrange. Especially with no names attached to follow up with.
Only once has anything I have done gone up as high as the Director of the NNSA. And it still perplexes me why that specific bit of work (which I think was kind of trivial and took me all of an afternoon to perform) made it that far.
If something I do warrants a technical report, I type it up and give it to my project manager. They read it, and if it was an important enough idea or contribution, they regurgitate it in their own words to the next level up in their next quarterly report or what-have-you. Repeat ad nauseum until someone decides that whatever my contribution or idea was doesn't need to be specifically discussed at the next level.
By the time it gets to the Director of the NNSA or an Undersecretary of Energy, it has been read, interpreted, and regurgitated by many people. Some of who may have a good background in my technical area, and others who have zero training in my field whatsoever. Whatever I write has to be written in such a way that a non-technical person will be able to read it and explain it succintly to another non-technical person, after having been interpreted by ten other people before that.
To say that there can be comically bad misunderstandings throughout that process is an understatement. If a Cabinet level bigwig wanted to only hear information from the lower ranks that they wanted to hear, whether it was an accurate representation of the original work or not, it wouldn't be very hard to arrange. Especially with no names attached to follow up with.
Only once has anything I have done gone up as high as the Director of the NNSA. And it still perplexes me why that specific bit of work (which I think was kind of trivial and took me all of an afternoon to perform) made it that far.
The immediate past undersecretary of energy for science grew up in the Tulsa area and possessed a unique skill set of nuclear energy scholastic and military training, hands on leading edge scientific research experience and was a partner on Wall Street for two decades closing billion dollar energy deals. He served DOE in political positions in both the Obama and Trump Administrations. An apolitical former military officer who understood both the business end and the research end. A true unicorn and an underrecognized public servant who gave up a seven digit yearly income to make $185,000 and spend three years away from his family. But all you hear about Trump appointees is that they were all Scott Pruitt and Betsy DeVos.
And he didn’t forget where he came from, first chance he got, he spoke to the students at TU.
And he didn’t forget where he came from, first chance he got, he spoke to the students at TU.
True, Obama had a habit of appointing scientists to leadership positions within the DoE and I am glad Trump recognized him as well-qualified. There were pluses and minuses to that Obama era practice, but it was a popular move.
But I really wasn't trying to make any broader point about the quality of Trump appointees (Just Pompeo). It's not uncommon, even if the DoE secretary has a Ph.D. in nuclear physics, that a lot of guys in between don't. It's just the way it is.
From your Fox hole I can certainly see where there is room for misunderstandings. Where I work, there is no separation between us and the figure heads presenting our work for publication. We brief our General, our General briefs POTUS. We validate all our work through the source packet so if anyone ever had questions, they could easily refer back to that. Our SES’s conduct a daily murder board for all of our products where they scrutinize and help refine the products before they are sent to the 17 other organizations who do the exact same thing. We all come to a consensus on the final product. We brief at the highest level everyday! The only time I have ever seen information politically manipulated was during the Iraq war. Typically if there is a chance the information would possibly be used in a political way, it’s purposely written in a very specific way to ensure that doesn’t happen. Where I work, we all pride ourselves on our allegiance to upholding our oath to the constitution, NOT a President. However I will preface that by admitting it’s a well known fact that there are 2 organizations out of 18 who don’t always follow that thought pattern but for the topics we are speaking about, specifically with Pompeo, that’s not relevant.
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Yes, on a rare occasion, Errors and mistakes happen. Political manipulation.......as I stated, not in my organization.
If a certain someone here was the one giving advice nearly directly to the POTUS, suddenly the constant debacles of the Trump administration make sense.
Maybe Trump isn't such a bad guy after all. He just got some terrible advice!
Maybe Trump isn't such a bad guy after all. He just got some terrible advice!
No, he’s awful. He’s always been awful. I was thinking about a unique bastion of his awfulness that is rarely discussed this morning: the USFL. He runs a business like Keith Burns runs a college program. QED.
😂 KB was awful. He hated me bc I never gave in or played along with his BS. That being said, while I was on the field, leading, and racking up individual awards, you were in the stands! Years later, nothing has changed. 😂 Good job 👏🏼
"He'd like to run for public office someday, an idea that started growing when he campaigned to be president of his home room (and won) in the sixth grade."
Thank god he failed at this goal. Running for public office is a little more challenging than convincing 15 or 30 students to let you be pressy. Not much of a debater for having been on the debate team in high school.
Thank god he failed at this goal. Running for public office is a little more challenging than convincing 15 or 30 students to let you be pressy. Not much of a debater for having been on the debate team in high school.
