Cycle of despair, basketball edition

[chito_and_leon]

Saw this with my other hometown team. The Gophers are one of the few teams that's almost as miserably bad as us, going 9-22 and 2-17 in conference. Their 2 best players are in the portal. This is the hard thing with the simplistic message board "it's the coach" vs "it's the talent". In reality, it's a big casserole that makes a team good or bad and it's hard to unfurl sometimes where the problem is, or the problem changes. Coaching decisions are like pornography, you know it when you see it, even if the "problem" seems to change. Johnson at MN probably has another season but it's odds are long with the turnover. Next year will be pretty decisive for Konkol. He needs to lay a strong foundation for year 3. If he's kind of starting over again after next year, it'll be tough.

Minnesota Basketball: What is wrong with Gopher hoops?

 

[I.I.]

Saw this with my other hometown team. The Gophers are one of the few teams that's almost as miserably bad as us, going 9-22 and 2-17 in conference. Their 2 best players are in the portal. This is the hard thing with the simplistic message board "it's the coach" vs "it's the talent". In reality, it's a big casserole that makes a team good or bad and it's hard to unfurl sometimes where the problem is, or the problem changes. Coaching decisions are like pornography, you know it when you see it, even if the "problem" seems to change. Johnson at MN probably has another season but it's odds are long with the turnover. Next year will be pretty decisive for Konkol. He needs to lay a strong foundation for year 3. If he's kind of starting over again after next year, it'll be tough.

Minnesota Basketball: What is wrong with Gopher hoops?

How long has Johnson been there?

 

[chito_and_leon]

How long has Johnson been there?

2 years, year 3 next year. He'll actually probably get a little more time. He's a beloved alum and personable young guy who's had some luck with in-state recruiting.

 

[I.I.]

2 years, year 3 next year. He'll actually probably get a little more time. He's a beloved alum and personable young guy who's had some luck with in-state recruiting.

A lot easier to recruit there than Tulsa. But how someone recruits to Manhattan Kansas, I have trouble with. 😀

 

[HuffyCane]

Saw this with my other hometown team. The Gophers are one of the few teams that's almost as miserably bad as us, going 9-22 and 2-17 in conference. Their 2 best players are in the portal. This is the hard thing with the simplistic message board "it's the coach" vs "it's the talent". In reality, it's a big casserole that makes a team good or bad and it's hard to unfurl sometimes where the problem is, or the problem changes. Coaching decisions are like pornography, you know it when you see it, even if the "problem" seems to change. Johnson at MN probably has another season but it's odds are long with the turnover. Next year will be pretty decisive for Konkol. He needs to lay a strong foundation for year 3. If he's kind of starting over again after next year, it'll be tough.

Minnesota Basketball: What is wrong with Gopher hoops?

Good post. When I think of Tulsa basketball I’m actually reminded of Minnesota football. Which still has people talking about the teams of the 30’s and 40’s because they haven’t had much success since.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

How long has Johnson been there?

There’s a joke in there somewhere.

 

[nevadanatural]

2 years, year 3 next year. He'll actually probably get a little more time. He's a beloved alum and personable young guy who's had some luck with in-state recruiting.

I can understand someone in year three being on the hot seat and I’ve said in the Alley that if we’re not looking at the NIT at least by year three I’ll join the dissatisfied group. Unfortunately there’s a segment of the fan base that, for reasons unknown, expected an immediate turnaround and when it didn’t happen the reaction was “this guys no good, get rid of him”. Like you’ve said it’s a mix of coaching and talent. The best coaching in the world doesn’t help if you don’t have the players and the best players don’t help if you don’t have the coaching.

There’s a limited amount of recruiting you can do when you get the job in April and Konkol kept the best we had available on last year’s team and added a few pieces. Sure, some of those pieces didn’t pan out but bringing in Selebangue (although he’s in the portal now) and the fall signees give me hope that he can bring in the talent. The sets he ran after time outs lead me to believe the coaching is there. We need to give him a couple of full recruiting cycles before we can really evaluate whether he’s right for the job or not. Knee jerk reactions just make one a jerk.

 

[cmullinsTU]

There’s a joke in there somewhere.

If it had been written by anyone other than @I.I. I would’ve assumed it was a joke.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I can understand someone in year three being on the hot seat and I’ve said in the Alley that if we’re not looking at the NIT at least by year three I’ll join the dissatisfied group. Unfortunately there’s a segment of the fan base that, for reasons unknown, expected an immediate turnaround and when it didn’t happen the reaction was “this guys no good, get rid of him”. Like you’ve said it’s a mix of coaching and talent. The best coaching in the world doesn’t help if you don’t have the players and the best players don’t help if you don’t have the coaching.

There’s a limited amount of recruiting you can do when you get the job in April and Konkol kept the best we had available on last year’s team and added a few pieces. Sure, some of those pieces didn’t pan out but bringing in Selebangue (although he’s in the portal now) and the fall signees give me hope that he can bring in the talent. The sets he ran after time outs lead me to believe the coaching is there. We need to give him a couple of full recruiting cycles before we can really evaluate whether he’s right for the job or not. Knee jerk reactions just make one a jerk.

I just wish we'd of kept Elkamil, if he wanted to stay, and got rid of KES.(I was happy that scholarship went to Seals.) Man we sure could have used Loftin. If I could see the alternate reality, I'd like to see what that would have done to our won loss record.

 

[I.I.]

I just wish we'd of kept Elkamil, if he wanted to stay, and got rid of KES.(I was happy that scholarship went to Seals.) Man we sure could have used Loftin. If I could see the alternate reality, I'd like to see what that would have done to our won loss record.

There was a short time there we might have had a shot for Junior Lofton. Before he exploded in the pro tryouts

 

[chito_and_leon]

I can understand someone in year three being on the hot seat and I’ve said in the Alley that if we’re not looking at the NIT at least by year three I’ll join the dissatisfied group. Unfortunately there’s a segment of the fan base that, for reasons unknown, expected an immediate turnaround and when it didn’t happen the reaction was “this guys no good, get rid of him”. Like you’ve said it’s a mix of coaching and talent. The best coaching in the world doesn’t help if you don’t have the players and the best players don’t help if you don’t have the coaching.

There’s a limited amount of recruiting you can do when you get the job in April and Konkol kept the best we had available on last year’s team and added a few pieces. Sure, some of those pieces didn’t pan out but bringing in Selebangue (although he’s in the portal now) and the fall signees give me hope that he can bring in the talent. The sets he ran after time outs lead me to believe the coaching is there. We need to give him a couple of full recruiting cycles before we can really evaluate whether he’s right for the job or not. Knee jerk reactions just make one a jerk.

I think people underrate stability and culture. it' just really hard to build a good team if you're replacing 7+ guys a year unless you're one of maybe 15 teams in the country. The portal is for most schools just fools gold. You can fill in some pieces and pick up some complementary players but it's not a way to build out a full team. We knew this year would be hard, I'm most disappointed that we didn't get the transition done so we could begin building around some core with stability next year. Hopefully the LaTech transfers will give us that core for a couple years that we can stabilize with. Personally I'm more excited about that from them even than their BB skills.

 

[nevadanatural]

Good luck with that. They’re both seniors with one year of eligibility is my understanding.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I think people underrate stability and culture. it' just really hard to build a good team if you're replacing 7+ guys a year unless you're one of maybe 15 teams in the country. The portal is for most schools just fools gold. You can fill in some pieces and pick up some complementary players but it's not a way to build out a full team. We knew this year would be hard, I'm most disappointed that we didn't get the transition done so we could begin building around some core with stability next year. Hopefully the LaTech transfers will give us that core for a couple years that we can stabilize with. Personally I'm more excited about that from them even than their BB skills.

La tech players are grad transfers. They are gone after next year. We have to get enough of a performance out of them and the whole team, to keep our freshman recruits, and give confidence to some good freshmen and young portal/Jucos to bring in, in next years recruiting class.

 

[I.I.]

The remaining 5 or 6 players are the key to next year. Need those 24-25 year old players who are experienced. Harder to bring Freshmen along for 2-3 years.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

The remaining 5 or 6 players are the key to next year. Need those 24-25 year old players who are experienced. Harder to bring Freshmen along for 2-3 years.

We can't bring in six 25 year olds. Success or not, we would be doing it all over again next year. I want a mix of young and old. Two 25 year olds, two or three mediums, and one or two young uns. That leaves us with 4 players to graduate next year.

 

[chito_and_leon]

La tech players are grad transfers. They are gone after next year. We have to get enough of a performance out of them and the whole team, to keep our freshman recruits, and give confidence to some good freshmen and young portal/Jucos to bring in, in next years recruiting class.

Bummer, I thought they had 2 years. Agree 100% with your point. Need to get to where we only need 4 or 5 new guys a year. This year is pretty important for that.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The remaining 5 or 6 players are the key to next year. Need those 24-25 year old players who are experienced. Harder to bring Freshmen along for 2-3 years.

I think we have to bite that bullet. I'd feel a lot better with freshmen who are growing and getting better than a constant cycle of good but not great older guys where we can't establish any momentum. Of course the best is to blend them in together. Like Gmoney said, we need enough older guys to keep the younger guys on board. Anyway, we're not going to get a bunch of 24-25 year old guys who are worth having, there's too much demand and not enough supply. Beyond the top 2 or 3, they're going to be guys who won't contribute much no matter how much kool aid you drink.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Bummer, I thought they had 2 years. Agree 100% with your point. Need to get to where we only need 4 or 5 new guys a year. This year is pretty important for that.

Oh we'll need 5 or 6 guys at minimum due to portal. But starting out at 4 gives you a chance to not need 8 or 9.

 

[t-townpod]

The talent level this year was really bad. A few had some individual skills but limited.
The remake was required as we did not have a lot of time to develop.
Have no idea which if any of the transfers Konkol tried to keep

 

[seniorgolfer]

The remaining 5 or 6 players are the key to next year. Need those 24-25 year old players who are experienced. Harder to bring Freshmen along for 2-3 years.

Yes, experience is valuable when the lights go on....We did find one significant short
fall with experience in some of our transfers this past season, however...Their
limitations are more deeply ingrained, and harder to coach away.....Younger players
are probably more receptive to coaching, but also more in need of it...

With the exception of the two LaTech transfers, the recruiting class is young, very
young in fact.....I agree, the yet to be signed 5 or 6 do need to be experienced and
ready to play to give some balance to the team....Their makeup will go a long ways
in determining the potential of next season's squad, especially pre-conference....

 

[el duran]

The talent level this year was really bad. A few had some individual skills but limited.
The remake was required as we did not have a lot of time to develop.
Have no idea which if any of the transfers Konkol tried to keep

I believe Knight and Selabangue have the option to return. The other 9 have been Cornwell'd.

 

[nevadanatural]

Would love to see Selebangue pull his name out of the portal.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The other 9 have been Cornwell'd.

LOL, I love it, that's the kind of completely random, obscure reference that lets you know you're dealing with a true TU fan. Of all the bad players we've had, how did you pick him?

 

[chito_and_leon]

Yes, experience is valuable when the lights go on....We did find one significant short
fall with experience in some of our transfers this past season, however...Their
limitations are more deeply ingrained, and harder to coach away.....Younger players
are probably more receptive to coaching, but also more in need of it...

With the exception of the two LaTech transfers, the recruiting class is young, very
young in fact.....I agree, the yet to be signed 5 or 6 do need to be experienced and
ready to play to give some balance to the team....Their makeup will go a long ways
in determining the potential of next season's squad, especially pre-conference....

I doubt we'll be looking at 20 wins next year anyway no matter who those last people are, not much reason to take a pretty good short-termer. i'd rather take guys who can help give us quality and stability even if it takes them a couple years rather than being on the treadmill of having to bring in a lot of guys every year. That's pretty much a guarantee of perpetual 15 - 18 win seasons. Tho to your point, given the numbers we need, we probably should take the best guys available no matter what, there's plenty of room for everyone!

 

[el duran]

LOL, I love it, that's the kind of completely random, obscure reference that lets you know you're dealing with a true TU fan. Of all the bad players we've had, how did you pick

LOL, I love it, that's the kind of completely random, obscure reference that lets you know you're dealing with a true TU fan. Of all the bad players we've had, how did you pick him?

First guy I thought of. Kind of like when someone doesn't attend any classes. That's a Kenneth Kelley.

 

[I.I.]

LOL, I love it, that's the kind of completely random, obscure reference that lets you know you're dealing with a true TU fan. Of all the bad players we've had, how did you pick him?

I would rather say “Platted”

 

[loca2874]

 

[chito_and_leon]

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I really like Konkol, I hope he's the guy and we can then find a way to keep him around.

 

[dougheffking]

Saw this with my other hometown team. The Gophers are one of the few teams that's almost as miserably bad as us, going 9-22 and 2-17 in conference. Their 2 best players are in the portal. This is the hard thing with the simplistic message board "it's the coach" vs "it's the talent". In reality, it's a big casserole that makes a team good or bad and it's hard to unfurl sometimes where the problem is, or the problem changes. Coaching decisions are like pornography, you know it when you see it, even if the "problem" seems to change. Johnson at MN probably has another season but it's odds are long with the turnover. Next year will be pretty decisive for Konkol. He needs to lay a strong foundation for year 3. If he's kind of starting over again after next year, it'll be tough.

Minnesota Basketball: What is wrong with Gopher hoops?

Laying a strong foundation is great, but I think in today's portal world, just decreasing the amount you have to bring in each year should be the goal. You're going to have guys leave every year it appears.

 

[I.I.]

Konkol would have been a great fit for Gragg when we hired Haith. Still a good choice in my opinion as he is young and flexible enough to navigate all these new hurdles that Wojcik and Haith didn’t have to contend with.

 

[seniorgolfer]

Konkol would have been a great fit for Gragg when we hired Haith. Still a good choice in my opinion as he is young and flexible enough to navigate all these new hurdles that Wojcik and Haith didn’t have to contend with.

Yes...The portal and NIL seemed to get here the same time Konkol&Co. did...
The impressions left from several years of mediocre basketball, and a
skeletal crew of carry over players awaited them...They had to take a hard
look at their several years of successful recruiting methods to see if they
would work in the new environment....

Their second year ('23) recruiting class is off to a good start, but it appears
to be only half finished.....Completing the 2nd half of the class will be very
important in being able to reverse the recent downward trend of the
program...

Good luck to them! They deserve a break....

 

[Larry Lewis]

I would rather say “Platted”

Except he was a walk-on. How about Ottoed? In reference legendary 7-footer David Otto from Nolan's last recruiting class.

While he was at TU, J.D. said on his radio show that the big guy was the worst competitor he had ever seen - and needed to be playing 2 to 3 levels lower. Nolan was more diplomatic, saying Otto needed to fall in love with the game of basketball.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

View embedded media

I wonder if she's just assuming that Seal's may take up that last scholarship, or if Konkol implied it was a possibility.("With at least five more spots to fill,...")

I'm glad Konkol is in line with I.I.'s & my expressed opinions on getting older(II) and diversifying the classes to young & old.(myself) No more classes of 8 every year unless we can't help it.(though portal departures)

 

[loca2874]

I wonder if she's just assuming that Seal's may take up that last scholarship, or if Konkol implied it was a possibility.("With at least five more spots to fill,...")

I was chalking it up to her calculator didn't work that day.

 

[I.I.]

Except he was a walk-on. How about Ottoed? In reference legendary 7-footer David Otto from Nolan's last recruiting class.

While he was at TU, J.D. said on his radio show that the big guy was the worst competitor he had ever seen - and needed to be playing 2 to 3 levels lower. Nolan was more diplomatic, saying Otto needed to fall in love with the game of basketball.

Otto may win for the worst big. Big E is close too.

 

[TU Sepp]

Seals should not be taking any scholly that can be given to a D-1 player.
He is a lower division player at best.
He will give 100%, but the talent level is below D-1.

 

[el duran]

Otto may win for the worst big. Big E is close too.

Peter Hewitt has entered the thread.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Seals should not be taking any scholly that can be given to a D-1 player.
He is a lower division player at best.
He will give 100%, but the talent level is below D-1.

I'm still ok with that 13th scholly going to somebody like Seals/Urbancic. That is if we can't find somebody worthy, after the first 12. Will prolly get difficult to find that 12th & 13th scholly.

 

[TU Sepp]

I'm still ok with that 13th scholly going to somebody like Seals/Urbancic. That is if we can't find somebody worthy, after the first 12. Will prolly get difficult to find that 12th & 13th scholly.

I think there might be better "local" players that are younger and can be developed for that last scholly than Seals.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I think there might be better "local" players that are younger and can be developed for that last scholly than Seals.

Apparently Holliman wants to be here. I have a feeling we might pick him up considering how many scholarships we have open.