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Thunder

Anyone paying attention to the Thunder?

That team is extraordinary. Like, I've watched a lot of pro ball and I've never seen another team like it. Chet goes down with a hip injury.... they basically have one healthy big left on the entire team, and he's more of a perimeter guy.... and they're still competitive.

The defense by their guards is otherworldly, especially post defense.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

We are getting wrapped up in a relatively small point in the grand scheme. If you step back just a little, it seems to me like @Gmoney4WW and I are largely seeing things the same way. We are disappointed by the lack of patriotism, decorum, and rationality of a large portion of the population. It is not tied to political philosophy, or at least it would not have been for most of our lives.

That is my take.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

Don't pretend that in a time of non urgency it is equal to say you can't work because you are obese or smoke tobacco. First of all, you can't catch those two health problems. And second of all Covid was causing major parts of our economy to shut down because of people dying or becoming ill. Someone in the federal government only having to take a week off of work, as opposed to having to go into our overly stressed hospitals for 3 or 4 weeks, took stress off the hospitals, and got them back to work quicker. Two very important factors in favor of the mandate, considering worker shortages were prevalent everywhere. That should have been good enough. In my grandparent's time, the majority of people out there wouldn't have questioned the mandate, and would have volunteered to take it, even if there hadn't been a mandate.
At the time the Biden Admin attempted to enforce the private employee mandate the vaccine didn’t prevent the transmission of the virus. Which was the stated rationale for said mandate. Therefore, I’m not following your argument

2024 Election prediction/discussion

The federal government can’t prevent people from earning a living because they won’t submit to taking a drug which MIGHT lessen the severity of illness. What’s next….you can’t work if you fall under the guidelines of being obese? You can’t work if you use tobacco? You can’t work if you don’t exercise 10 hours a week? All of which might lessen the severity of most illnesses including Covid. Same logic.

Once the vaccine ceased to prevent the spread of Covid the reasoning for the mandate was no longer valid. Yet the Biden Admin still sought enforcement. Which is one of the reasons it failed
Don't pretend that in a time of non urgency it is equal to say you can't work because you are obese or smoke tobacco. First of all, you can't catch those two health problems. And second of all Covid was causing major parts of our economy to shut down because of people dying or becoming ill. Someone in the federal government only having to take a week off of work, as opposed to having to go into our overly stressed hospitals for 3 or 4 weeks, took stress off the hospitals, and got them back to work quicker. Two very important factors in favor of the mandate, considering worker shortages were prevalent everywhere. That should have been good enough. In my grandparent's time, the majority of people out there wouldn't have questioned the mandate, and would have volunteered to take it, even if there hadn't been a mandate. And most people who would have been helped by exercise, would have been helped by it six months or a year later. That was not an immediate solution.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

Ok you make a good case for overstep.

But that doesn't really contradict my main points. It is one outrage versus the avalanche I noted. And it is an outrage that simply inconvenienced some stubborn people who were deluded by crazy ideas about vaccines.

My bigger point about disappointment in people's irrationality remains. America is not what I used to think it was based on all the old stories of wartime solidarity.
Agree. I got vaccinated and was fairly vocal on my thoughts regarding the same. When the vaccine became more therapeutic I declined to continue to get the boosters. Ive contracted the the virus twice and both time were very mild. I also have no pre-existing conditions which place me at higher risk.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

The federal government can’t prevent people from earning a living because they won’t submit to taking a drug which MIGHT lessen the severity of illness. What’s next….you can’t work if you fall under the guidelines of being obese? You can’t work if you use tobacco? You can’t work if you don’t exercise 10 hours a week? All of which might lessen the severity of most illnesses including Covid. Same logic.

Once the vaccine ceased to prevent the spread of Covid the reasoning for the mandate was no longer valid. Yet the Biden Admin still sought enforcement. Which is one of the reasons it failed
Ok you make a good case for overstep.

But that doesn't really contradict my main points. It is one outrage versus the avalanche I noted. And it is an outrage that simply inconvenienced some stubborn people who were deluded by crazy ideas about vaccines.

My bigger point about disappointment in people's irrationality remains. America is not what I used to think it was based on all the old stories of wartime solidarity.
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2024 Election prediction/discussion

Obesity certainly does take people away from work. Obese people are far more likely to have health issues which cause them to miss work. When they get sick the illness is likely to be more severe with the obese than people who eat right and exercise. Covid showed us as much. Same general argument for smokers.

Interesting thought on mandating Ozempic like drugs. Not sure I see us going there but it certainly makes for an interesting discussion. Especially when we consider the health care costs we all pay for the obese.
One further thought, you can't impose punitive taxes aimed at reducing consumption on Covid like you can on alcohol, cigarettes, or sugary foodstuffs.

On the Ozempic topic, I can not believe that the government hasn't taken a serious look at how to bring down the drug prices for that. It's of national interest, especially right now.... given what the doctors are saying in terms of its byproduct health improvements too. That should have been in Kamala's platform (or anyone who wanted to win)

2024 Election prediction/discussion

There was good evidence to suggest that it would lessen the severity. Obesity in itself is not taking people away from work. Covid was.

Slightly off topic, I do think that we see the government start to push some of the Ozempic-esque drugs when they become generics.... if nothing else than for national defense and national health costs. They could use more able bodies. Under normal conditions, I don't think it would ever be mandated because obesity is not transmissible and it's not a time priority. If we ever went into another global conflict I think it probably would be made mandatory.
Obesity certainly does take people away from work. Obese people are far more likely to have health issues which cause them to miss work. When they get sick the illness is likely to be more severe with the obese than people who eat right and exercise. Covid showed us as much. Same general argument for smokers.

Interesting thought on mandating Ozempic like drugs. Not sure I see us going there but it certainly makes for an interesting discussion. Especially when we consider the health care costs we all pay for the obese.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

The federal government can’t prevent people from earning a living because they won’t submit to taking a drug which MIGHT lessen the severity of illness. What’s next….you can’t work if you fall under the guidelines of being obese? You can’t work if you use tobacco? You can’t work if you don’t exercise 10 hours a week? All of which might lessen the severity of most illnesses including Covid. Same logic.
There was good evidence to suggest that it would lessen the severity. Obesity in itself is not taking people away from work. Covid was.

Slightly off topic, I do think that we see the government start to push some of the Ozempic-esque drugs when they become generics.... if nothing else than for national defense and national health costs. They could use more able bodies. Under normal conditions, I don't think it would ever be mandated because obesity is not transmissible and it's not a time priority. If we ever went into another global conflict I think it probably would be made mandatory for a multitude of reasons (artificially lower food consumption, increase general health, make people more fighting fit, increase labor productivity, etc...)

A country like China would absolutely do it because they saw the societal benefit.... but they probably wouldn't have allowed their population to get this fat in the first place.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

I support people working cooperatively to do whatever they can to mitigate the social impacts of the virus. Just because it didn't prevent the spread didn't mean that it didn't help mitigate symptoms. Maybe instead of putting a bunch of obese Americans in the hospital, the vaccine helped them only miss a week or so of work... therefore lessening the strain on our medical system, and increasing economic productivity. It is to society's benefit to have healthy people.

It doesn't HAVE to stop the spread to be a reasonable thing to do. Hypothetical: What if China had used the conditions as to their advantage and invaded Taiwan? Do you want a bunch of your potential servicemen to be at risk of severe (even if non-deadly) symptoms? Do you want your economy to lag because of the disease effecting factories' agility to build planes, tanks, and munitions?

Finally, I also see history where there were large scale riots throughout the 13 colonies about vaccines & inoculation for generations....even though they worked.... there were still stupid people that thought they should have the right to be stupid, and that their independence was more important than the prosperity of their communities. I don't support the thoughts of those people. I support the thoughts of Washington, Jefferson, Adams, etc... who believed vaccines were to society's benefit and who imposed mandates and promoted them. In fact, I would argue that other than independence from the crown.... vaccines were one of the few things that many of the noteable founding fathers agreed upon.
The federal government can’t prevent people from earning a living because they won’t submit to taking a drug which MIGHT lessen the severity of illness. What’s next….you can’t work if you fall under the guidelines of being obese? You can’t work if you use tobacco? You can’t work if you don’t exercise 10 hours a week? All of which might lessen the severity of most illnesses including Covid. Same logic.

Once the vaccine ceased to prevent the spread of Covid the reasoning for the mandate was no longer valid. Yet the Biden Admin still sought enforcement. Which is one of the reasons it failed

2024 Election prediction/discussion

I support people working cooperatively to do whatever they can to mitigate the social impacts of the virus. Just because it didn't prevent the spread didn't mean that it didn't help mitigate symptoms. Maybe instead of putting a bunch of obese Americans in the hospital, the vaccine helped them only miss a week or so of work... therefore lessening the strain on our medical system, and increasing economic productivity. It is to society's benefit to have healthy people.

It doesn't HAVE to stop the spread to be a reasonable thing to do.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

…and you still support enforcement of a vaccine mandate which failed to accomplish its stated objective….to insure workplace safety by stopping the spread of the virus. Amazing. Lack of independent thinking like this is what worries me. Even after being stuck down by the courts
I support people working cooperatively to do whatever they can to mitigate the social impacts of the virus. Just because it didn't prevent the spread didn't mean that it didn't help mitigate symptoms. Maybe instead of putting a bunch of obese Americans in the hospital, the vaccine helped them only miss a week or so of work... therefore lessening the strain on our medical system, and increasing economic productivity. It is to society's benefit to have healthy people.

It doesn't HAVE to stop the spread to be a reasonable thing to do. Hypothetical: What if China had used the conditions as to their advantage and invaded Taiwan? Do you want a bunch of your potential servicemen to be at risk of severe (even if non-deadly) symptoms? Do you want your economy to lag because of the disease effecting factories' agility to build planes, tanks, and munitions?

Finally, I also see history where there were large scale riots throughout the 13 colonies about vaccines & inoculation for generations prior to independence....even though they worked.... there were still stupid people that thought they should have the right to be stupid, and that their independence was more important than the prosperity of their communities. I don't support the thoughts of those people. I support the thoughts of Washington, Jefferson, Adams, etc... who believed vaccines were to society's benefit and who imposed mandates and promoted them. In fact, I would argue that other than independence from the crown.... vaccines were one of the few things that many of the noteable founding fathers agreed upon.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

I guess they waited too long for the mandate. It was certainly an effective vaccine. Thank goodness we had heroes like Fauci working on behalf of the American people. And, strangely enough, Trump gets credit for his accelerated vaccine program.

Many people on the other hand were kind of nuts. It cost a good friend of mine his life, the crazy resistance to vaccination. Early 50s. A life wasted for no reason because of nutty fears and ideas.
God forbid we possibly trample on someone's rights in a time of emergency over irrational fears that the vaccine causes autism. But they have RFK Jr to stand up for those rights now. The vaccine was so bad for those that took it.
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2024 Election prediction/discussion

I'm talking about those that are appointed to his cabinet. Security advisors and Secretary of Defense(as long as he is 10 off of active duty) can be formerly high up and very influential with the military brass. And I am sure that Trump will be very aware of this the second time around.
I’m counting on there being enough disdain for Trump at the highest level of the military that this won’t be an issue. Certainly seems to be the case based on comments made by military brass

2024 Election prediction/discussion

They got the decision wrong and went against 250 years of historical precedent, part of which helped us become a nation, and established by one of the most revered founding fathers. That's okay though. The conservative court can tell you all about which rulings previous courts got wrong. They're good at that.

PS.... there is no mention in the constitution anywhere about civil rights against vaccination. None. Nowhere. Nada. There's not even an amendment that kinda sorta covers it like how the 14th is used. The federal ban was struck down by the conservative dominated USSC on a technicality about OSHA's congressionally mandated authority, not because vaccine mandates violate civil rights.

Go propose an amendment if you feel it should be a civil right.
…and you still support enforcement of a vaccine mandate which failed to accomplish its stated objective….to insure workplace safety by stopping the spread of the virus. Amazing. Lack of independent thinking like this is what worries me. 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑

2024 Election prediction/discussion

Thankfully Generals aren’t political appointments. I haven’t seen much support for Trump in either the FBI or upper military brass. Which I submit is a good thing.
I'm talking about those that are appointed to his cabinet. Security advisors and Secretary of Defense(as long as he is 10 off of active duty) can be formerly high up and very influential with the military brass. And I am sure that Trump will be very aware of this the second time around.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

When the Biden Admin sought to enforce the vaccine mandate for employers it was clear the vaccine failed to prevent the spread of Covid. When the New York State Supreme Court finds the actions of a Democratic Admin unconstitutional you know it is a gross violation of our constitutional rights. One of the reasons the Court found the mandate unconstitutional is the aforementioned reason.
I guess they waited too long for the mandate. It was certainly an effective vaccine. Thank goodness we had heroes like Fauci working on behalf of the American people. And, strangely enough, Trump gets credit for his accelerated vaccine program.

Many people on the other hand were kind of nuts. It cost a good friend of mine his life, the crazy resistance to vaccination. Early 50s. A life wasted for no reason because of nutty fears and ideas.
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2024 Election prediction/discussion

When the Biden Admin sought to enforce the vaccine mandate for employers it was clear the vaccine failed to prevent the spread of Covid. When the New York State Supreme Court finds the actions of a Democratic Admin unconstitutional you know it is a gross violation of our constitutional rights. One of the reasons the Court found the mandate unconstitutional is the aforementioned reason. Yet there are those who still support an unconstitutional violation of our civil rights solely out of partisanship. This is what scares the hell out of me.
They got the decision wrong and went against 250 years of historical precedent, part of which helped us become a nation, and established by one of the most revered founding fathers. That's okay though. The conservative court can tell you all about which rulings previous courts got wrong. They're good at that.

PS.... there is no mention in the constitution anywhere about civil rights against vaccination. None. Nowhere. Nada. There's not even an amendment that kinda sorta covers it like how the 14th is used. The federal ban was struck down by the conservative dominated USSC on a technicality about OSHA's congressionally mandated authority, not because vaccine mandates violate civil rights.

Go propose an amendment if you feel it should be a civil right.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

Just like many congressmen would back Trump? You know, all the congressmen who supported Trump's claims for election fraud. With idiots like Flynn in the military, I'm not so sure there wouldn't be a battle between the higher ups, on what to do, if given that order. And I'm sure the Generals in charge will be changed by Trump in his purge, if that is possible.
Thankfully Generals aren’t political appointments. I haven’t seen much support for Trump in either the FBI or upper military brass. Which I submit is a good thing.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

I’m convinced a significant portion of Americans will support almost anything “their side” instituted simply due to partisanship and/or hate for the other side. Empathy for those who disagree political with us is nonexistent in 2024
I can see what you are saying. But I have never, ever felt I had a side. I don't identify or feel any kinship with either party. None,

But I do have a good deal of confidence in science and expertise and don't like seeing it spit upon by ignorance.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

At the time the vaccine mandate was in effect we did not have definitive information that it did not prevent transmission, but we did have good evidence that it helped mitigate symptoms like most vaccines do. Ask yourself, if the vaccine had actually prevented transmission would it have been okay to mandate it?

PS There is already long historical precedent for this case. Washington mandated the smallpox vaccine for his troops in 1777 and that all new recruits be inoculated immediately upon enlistment.

PPS.... most people weren't refusing to take it because they thought it didn't prevent transmission. People were incorrectly afraid of non-existent side effects. The anti-vaxxers weren't after it because of its lack of transmission prevention... they had no problem taking bogus over the prescription meds that were terrible for them though.
When the Biden Admin sought to enforce the vaccine mandate for employers it was clear the vaccine failed to prevent the spread of Covid. When the New York State Supreme Court finds the actions of a Democratic Admin unconstitutional you know it is a gross violation of our constitutional rights. One of the reasons the Court found the mandate unconstitutional is the aforementioned reason. Yet there are those who still support an unconstitutional violation of our civil rights solely out of partisanship. This is what scares the hell out of me.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

2). I’m certain the national guard, FBI, CIA, military brass all tell Trump to jump in a lake if he asks them to circumvent the election results.
Just like many congressmen would back Trump? You know, all the congressmen who supported Trump's claims for election fraud. With idiots like Flynn in the military, I'm not so sure there wouldn't be a battle between the higher ups, on what to do, if given that order. And I'm sure the Generals in charge will be changed by Trump in his purge, if that is possible.
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