Women’s World Cup - Randy Waldrum Edition
- Thread starter HuffyCane
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Pay to play is one of the biggest problems in developing soccer talent in this country. How many players have both the men and women missed out on? Look at both national teams. How many of these kids come from poor backgrounds coming up through rec soccer into HS? There are so many kids left behind by this system
The boys side has largely addressed this problem. MLS-Next is 100% free down kits and cleats. They still pay for travel but many teams go as teams with chaperones without parents.
The girls side not so much. However, ECNL dues are discounted in some clubs with the lower teams subsidizing the cost. Nothing near what the boys are doing though.
Y’all should watch Zlatan’s rant on the cost of girls football in the USA. He thinks it’s a miracle we are competitive at all given the number of highly compensated incompetent people involved and how the money collected is distributed without any regard for winning or the development of players.
“I don’t have to worry on such things, but why do I pay $9000 for my son to play a game that should be paying him?”
Harkes and Wynalda have said similar and been blackballed.
“I don’t have to worry on such things, but why do I pay $9000 for my son to play a game that should be paying him?”
Harkes and Wynalda have said similar and been blackballed.
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Zlatan isn’t wrong. The problem is we don’t have clubs worth billions of dollars bankrolling the training of kids here in the US. MLS clubs have stepped up in some instances. Top team boys at FC Dallas pay nothing except travel costs. Girls are sadly another story.
Winning and development are often two very different things. Especially in the younger ages. Americans like to focus on the winning while Europeans tend to see the bigger picture and look to development. It is what it is.
I saw that from Zlatan about how he thought it was so weird that he had to pay to have his kid play soccer in the US and how expensive it was at that. And Lawpoke is right, I know at WSA they keep fielding teams and teams at lower levels just so the good players who can't afford the exorbitant club fees and travel costs can play. I mean their '05s have won back to back National Cups or something like that, the same group that was on Fox23 essentially pandering for money to go to Spain to train at the Barca academy.
And don't get me started on how clubs treat their GKs. Euros also find it ridiculous that clubs here don't invest in heavy duty GK training from an early age. Well, no duh. And kids don't want to play GK until they figure out they're not going to get meaningful playing time anywhere else. I know this firsthand. And almost every second of GK training my son has done has been through private or small group trainings b/c the clubs don't give a **** about GKs. Ask TSC how much they care about GKs. Top 06 GK left to go to Blitz because TSC wouldn't move a GK from their top 06 team to the 2nd team and wanted 3 to split time. Kid just won a state championship at Jenks too and his backup at Jenks was one of the GKs they wouldn't move at TSC. So they lost maybe the best 06 GK in the state because they didn't want to maybe lose a kid by telling him he needed to go to the 2nd team to get enough playing time.
Lawpoke knows this stupidity all too well too. Ask him about his insane experiences with youth soccer.
+1. When Donovan Ricketts coached my son's team he told the parents, I don't know if we'll win any games but what I will tell you is they will know how to play the game the right way by the end of the season.
Here’s my latest example of some of the ridiculousness of youth soccer. My daughter plays three scrimmages this weekend in Dallas…Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We play teams from Colorado, Michigan and Austin. That’s correct….teams from Colorado and Michigan are coming to Dallas in August to play scrimmages.
That's pretty funny. Maybe you'll get to return the favor and go to Michigan in January.
Those northern girls are going to be dropping like flies. Hope the host club has lined up a lot of EMTs.
My daughter thankfully just quit soccer. Her club had gotten really shameless about cutting quality while raising prices.
My son will likely play in 4-5 scrimmages this weekend for 3 different teams while Blitz figured out who the top GKs are in the age group. And all the teams they're playing are from here in Tulsa...so nothing interesting. Even Beat the Heat next weekend in Edmond, playing all the same Energy, Sporting OKC, and Celtic teams we've played for the last 6 years. I swear these kids should No each other by name now.
That sounds a bit like the pretend “tryouts” these clubs have every year. Coaches watch these kids train and play the entire year then pretend to have open tryouts for 3 days to determine spots.
If soccer tryouts are like travel baseball, then they are merely fundraisers for the club as parents from other clubs pay the fee to get their kids seen.
I’ve never been to a soccer tryout where you’re required to pay a fee to attend. National team tryouts start with 1 day national ID camps for ages 13-15. The country is divided into 4 regions with each region having several camp locations. Admittance is invitation only and free. Parents cannot attend. From there players are selected move on to a second round and so on until the final US National team roster is set for each age.
And those events are really just to make sure we capture someone we might have missed. Pulisic, McKinney and Wright were all scouted before age 10. Donovan I think was 8 when US Soccer called his Dad over after a game. Conor Casey was either 11 or 12. There are exceptions, Jay DeMerit being a notable example, but it’s pure hustle what American soccer sells parents. The chances they are going to be a millionaire are basically over by age 14. And you can often buy a pretty nice college education in full for what you spend on youth soccer to try and get a scholarship between ages 14 and 17. Which is just a partial and will cost you even more money. It’s the worst of scams.
I love the sport. It was an integral part of my formative years and I rely on lessons I learned then almost every day. But much like my job, which I love, I would never tell a kid to play youth soccer or become a lawyer.
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Damn. I’m 0 for 2 there. Those camps and tryouts are also necessary because they have to fill youth national teams. Some kids are in fact prodigies like the ones you mentioned. There are others like Alex Morgan who take some time to develop. You hope the coaches can spot tbose type of kids during the ID process and get them in the national teams.
As far as youth soccer….yes, it definitely has its issues. My kid loves playing the game and I enjoy watching her play. I wouldn’t trade my experience and time with her for anything. Does it control my life at times….yes. Do I have any regrets….not yet.
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I have no illusions about what is going to happen. The coach basically admitted to me yesterday that the Jenks GK is going to be #1. He also admitted there are a lot of areas my son is better than his chosen one from Bixby...all except height where the Bixby kid has 4-5" on my kid (the coach and the Bixby kid moved together to Blitz from Highlanders a couple years ago.) The big kink is Eklund brought his entire team under Blitz and the kid who has been playing GK is way behind the other 3 GKs in the group but doesn't want to move teams and Eklund was promised his team will stay intact. I get the juggling act but at least give fair evals on kids. I understand being loyal to a kid but when it costs your team games and/or chances or their development because the kid you continually choose is limited in what they can do from a complete skill set standpoint, you're doing a disservice to the kid and the teams.
And I've never paid for my kid to tryout anywhere. TSC requires you to register for a tryout but that's mostly so they can get an idea of numbers in the group. And lets not get into what those tryouts are...3 days of scrimmages where kids they want to protect are kept away from kids who might be better than them. We never saw the ECNL kids after the 1st day...so if kids on lower teams want to move up there is no way to compare them to players on the upper team, no head to head, etc. It's just ridiculous.
Here's a stat which represents my $.02 worth. Consider it any way you wish. Half the money from our MNT making the recent WC knockout round is more than the women earned by winning 4 WCs.
Yeah, Blitz basically threatened kids who were part of the club that if they didn't register by certain dates they would risk not having a spot on a team. Which we all know is BS because no club is going to turn down a kid who is paying $$$ to them. But yes, my son would go to a TSC tryout on Monday to a Blitz tryout on Tuesday, to a WSA tryout on Wednesday and then decide which of the 3 he wanted to sign with based on what the coaches told him.
And don't forget all of the pre-tryout age group training sessions open to everyone from anywhere all at once.
While the US pays the players equally, FIFA does not and the shares that each nation makes depending on how far they go is very unequal but also representative of what advertisers and sponsoring partners think the men's WC and women's WC are worth to their businesses. There is a huge disparity. I'm sure if you looked at the men's and women's NCAA basketball tournaments, the difference would be similar in terms of what one tournament brings in over another.
I don't think this is relevant from an investment perspective, USSF short-term looks at total revenue generated not prize money and WNT is much closer to the men and apparently in some years provided more revenue to USSF than the men, even with the disadvantage in tournament winnings.
Somewhat longer term, women's soccer is a high growth, early stage business that's growing extremely quickly while men's soccer is more of an established business, esp outside the US. It's not exactly true that women's soccer is Tesla circa 2019 while men's soccer is Ford Motors circa 2020 but the math is the same.
And somewhat bigger picture, there's a lot of revenue synergy across the two, just like the NFL is working hard to attract women fans, soccer is, too, to get them interested in both women's and men's. $1 invested in women's soccer generates return from women's soccer but also some return on the men's side.
All told, this is why you're seeing so much investment in women's soccer outside the US, where soccer is more of a business than it is here. It's smart investment. The winnings will follow, hopefully for us.
2022: The Year That Changed Women’s Soccer In Europe
One of the most disgusting things I have seen is people cheering on the loss of the US Women's team. It comes from those places that bath themselves in extolling the greatness of America and patriotism. These people suck real, real bad and are clowns of the highest order.
Op-Ed: U.S. Soccer must find the courage to fix youth soccer in America
Why the USWNT's World Cup failure is a wake-up call.
www.soccerwire.com
We all knew each other by name when we played 20 years ago. There was only one club team per age group and we played against each from the dawn of competition through high school. Many of the games were blood baths.
This is a special kind of stupid comment. What makes you think they aren't focusing on soccer? Is it because they want more cash? Who doesn't want that? If that was their hustle, well, do it.
What makes you think they aren't "proud?" Could it be they aren't proud of certain things? We suck at certain things are different, but ultimately, we are the best country on earth. Those are mutually exclusive.
I don't know your politics or what you watch or read, but I have a strong inkling of what it might be. Don't be silly.
Your daughter was 11 or 12 at the time it folded, right? I am intimately familiar with what happened with the girls. I know people in US Soccer, the clubs in Colorado, and here. I reffed games for the boys and girls up to the u19 levels for the MLS sides and the DA clubs. Those were all assigned by US soccer.
Your comment was about US soccer's control. The "path" never changed. They wanted control of the cash and the league. All the same girls at the same clubs played in the league. It was even more exclusive because not everyone went into it. It lasted two years. They didn't allow girls to play high school soccer. It didn't fly with people. Why change anything when you are winning world cups?
Boys without financial means are still excluded too. Some get reduced rates or even free rides, but that is not everyone. The MLS Next clubs pick up the full tab for one team and only one team.
Yes. She was training with the Oklahoma DA team at the time it folded. DA obviously had its issues but I do believe US Soccer was headed down a better path than existed prior or presently when it comes to player development. My opinion remains that US Soccer needs to be more involved with development from U14 and up. Divide the country into regions and have multiple camps run by US Soccer where kids are identified and developed. US Soccer also needs to pour resources into development so all kids have the opportunity.
I will give ECNL some credit here. In addition to their ID camps they have divided the country up into 5 regions and invite the top kids from each region to spend a week at the US training center in Chula Vista. The kids get to train and play each other. Cost of attendance is covered but not cost of travel. There were US Soccer scouts at my daughters friendlies this past weekend so they are at least trying to do some evaluations.
Some good points. Especially on the financial scam part. Agree that America tries to pluck kids from all over the country and mash them together. It usually doesn’t work. Need 8 maybe 10 regions with travel prohibited outside region except once a year. Iron needs to sharpen iron. The best play the best in a self contained environment. No more kids from Ohio flying to Las Vegas to play a grossly inferior squad from North Dakota. Huge waste of resources. Horribly inefficient.Op-Ed: U.S. Soccer must find the courage to fix youth soccer in America
Why the USWNT's World Cup failure is a wake-up call.
Spain onto the final and playing beautiful football together. Even more incredible, about a dozen of their best players stayed home in protest.
I'd agree. Last year as part of the mandatory ES showcase participation, my son's team went to Florida and had to play teams from Chicago and Michigan. Um, why do we need to go to Florida when we could go to St. Louis or Indianapolis to play those teams. Yeah, it's fun to go to Florida but why do we need to and get charged premium hotel rates? And I think my son's team actually played one of those teams again in a tournament in St. Louis later on. And then we went to Tucson and played teams from CA and Nevada. Made a little more sense but still it's all a money grab for the sanctioning bodies as they require teams playing in their platforms to attend 2 out of the 3 showcases they sponsor each year. They claim it's to expose the kids to college coaches and what not...nope, didn't see a single college coach at any of those matches. But the parents who didn't get to go got to watch if they paid a $49 fee to Baller TV which half the time the feed didn't work or the camera wasn't calibrated properly. It's all a $$$ scam
Amazing that Spain left people at home over a protest and are doing so well. But I bet Japan is chewing their nails in frustration over a bad 1st half against Sweden.
England struck first on a phenomenal goal by Toone, top right corner on a laser line. 1-0 England at half. Australia came out fast and furious in the 2nd half and found an equalizer at about the 60' minute mark. Long clearance to Sam Kerr who took the ball just shy of midfield and took on 2 English defenders who kept giving her space to bring the ball in. Kerr hit a shot from about 30 yards that went upper 90 on the left side of the goal. I thought the English defenders made a mistake having Kerr 2 v 1 and one of them not stepping out and just slowing her down or even taking a foul. B/c the 2nd defender was there in support there's no way it is seen as a red card, and if a bona fide play on the ball is made, maybe not even a yellow. But it would have been the right play. I thought Kerr actually took the ball too deep and should have laid the ball off to her left to a streaking Australian player who could have walked into the English penalty area for a shot.
England scored twice after the 70' minute. The 2nd goal was an atrocious mistake by the Australian defense.
Australia could never quite get into a rhythm with possession. England has a lot more speed through the MF than I anticipated. They will meet Spain on Sunday (4am) for the title. Spain also has a ton of speed on the field. It will be interesting because England plays a very physical style of soccer and Spain seems to be more finesse from what I've seen so far.
England scored twice after the 70' minute. The 2nd goal was an atrocious mistake by the Australian defense.
Australia could never quite get into a rhythm with possession. England has a lot more speed through the MF than I anticipated. They will meet Spain on Sunday (4am) for the title. Spain also has a ton of speed on the field. It will be interesting because England plays a very physical style of soccer and Spain seems to be more finesse from what I've seen so far.
Spain uses tactics to defeat superior speed and athleticism. Though my heart is with England, Spain will win if they don’t waste their few chances. Spain has looked unbeatable to me since the jump.
The score was 1-0 and well contested but this match was never close or in doubt.
Tell your daughters to study this game closely. The one touch passing with purpose was superior. The combination play was intentional and well thought out. It wasn’t just triangles to relieve pressure. They knew where they wanted to absorb the pressure, shape the defense that way, then move the ball into the vacated areas. Really a masterpiece at times.
And the heroine and goal scorer the last couple of games has been one of the least capable of players. That’s not a fluke - it’s surely by design.
Don’t look now USA but Spain has won the U17, U20, Barca Champions League, and now the World Cup in the last couple of years. Arguably they have the World’s MVP.
I wouldn’t say the USA has to worry about the “rest of the world catching up”, I’d say the best team in the world is no longer the USA and without adequate funding and coaching, will never be again. USSF had better solve their labor problems. The players need an ego check and a refocus. We have work to do.
Tell your daughters to study this game closely. The one touch passing with purpose was superior. The combination play was intentional and well thought out. It wasn’t just triangles to relieve pressure. They knew where they wanted to absorb the pressure, shape the defense that way, then move the ball into the vacated areas. Really a masterpiece at times.
And the heroine and goal scorer the last couple of games has been one of the least capable of players. That’s not a fluke - it’s surely by design.
Don’t look now USA but Spain has won the U17, U20, Barca Champions League, and now the World Cup in the last couple of years. Arguably they have the World’s MVP.
I wouldn’t say the USA has to worry about the “rest of the world catching up”, I’d say the best team in the world is no longer the USA and without adequate funding and coaching, will never be again. USSF had better solve their labor problems. The players need an ego check and a refocus. We have work to do.
Is there any reason to think, when the advanced nations of soccer decide to really put their shoulders into the women's game, that we'll be anything other than borderline relevant like on the men's side? Remember in women's college basketball, 3 of the most dominant teams of the late 70s and early 80s were Louisiana Tech, Old Dominion and Cheyney. And then the world caught up with them.
I think the rest of the world put more than their shoulders into it, I think they put their whole bodies into it. Five years ago. This isn’t a time to panic but it most assuredly is a Sputnik moment.
It would be nice for some of the USSF powers that be to do a study to see how many players on the national teams for all the countries that made the knockout round, how many of them had to pay to play at a youth club. Then how many could have afforded to pay at a US youth club if they had to and which players would have fallen through the cracks because their families couldn't pay the $5000/yr (conservative) to play and travel.
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