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Where Do We Go from Here?

Get rid of the rose colored glasses!

Oh sorry, silly me....

What was I thinking? Trying to base my opinions and arguments on facts over here and succeed. It's almost like I was trained in some sort of higher learning facility on how to critically think. Crazy, wonder where that came from?
 
Five turnovers against Temple will get you beat against anyone .

Made field goals get you a win against a team that will probably be ranked in both polls tomorrow.

Guess there is an ancient Chinese proverb for everything.

Waters wet is one of my favorites though.
 
Made field goals get you a win against a team that will probably be ranked in both polls tomorrow.

Guess there is an ancient Chinese proverb for everything.

Waters wet is one of my favorites though.
It’s amazing when you think about it - miss 3 (4) field goals and lose by 7. Give up a safety and pick 6 and lose by 9. Give up a pick 6 and fumble return for TD and lose by 14. Who’s heard of losing consecutive games where the margin of loss equaled the points give up off turnovers.
 
TG and his staff recruited the hell out of Louisiana and Texas and had some very good players . They usually got hosed with the bowl selection of MAC teams and Hawaii .
C-USA got hosed with lousy bowl tie-ins where you either won the conference or went to a crappy bowl game. One of the bowl games against the crappy MAC teams was the year TU went 7-1 in C-USA losing only to an undefeated top 10 Houston team. That's a pretty damn good year of football IMO.
 
Tulsa team is not as bad at seems to me. The D is about as good as Tulsa has been in years.

When has Tulsa stopped a Texas type team at the goaline?

QB play is inconsistent to very bad. I suppose next years Baylor transfer will be in the drive's seat for the job.

Too bad for a lot of the guys killing it out there because I think with decent QB play Tulsa would be a pretty good team.

I guess everyone already knows all this lol.

Frustrating !!!

GO TU!!!!!
 
Tulsa team is not as bad at seems to me. The D is about as good as Tulsa has been in years.

When has Tulsa stopped a Texas type team at the goaline?

QB play is inconsistent to very bad. I suppose next years Baylor transfer will be in the drive's seat for the job.

Too bad for a lot of the guys killing it out there because I think with decent QB play Tulsa would be a pretty good team.

I guess everyone already knows all this lol.

Frustrating !!!

GO TU!!!!!
If Skipper just held onto the ball. I can live with the occasional INT taking a shot deep. It happens to the best of them. The fumbles after good drives are absolutely killing this team.
 
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If Skipper just held onto the ball. I can live with the occasional INT taking a shot deep. It happens to the best of them. The fumbles after good drives are absolutely killing this team.

Penalties/negative plays are killing this team. Especially ones after good plays. These are focus and discipline problems, which fall on the coaches. How many fumbles after a big catch or an important one, dropped balls including tds, bad special teams plays? False starts, illegal motions, substitution penalties, bad play calls have all happened after the team did something good, sometimes out standing like a goal line stand or a big 3rd down play so we could go for it on 4th.

Texas has lost to an emotional and fairly decent Maryland team to open the season. Two weeks in a row they have played ranked teams with high end recruiting classes and future NFL players all over the field. They have physically dominated those teams and even vs Maryland looked to have the better talent.

Tulsa held it's own, in Austin and if they had made field goals could have won. Talent is not an issue.
 
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Penalties/negative plays are killing this team. Especially ones after good plays. These are focus and discipline problems, which fall on the coaches. How many fumbles after a big catch or an important one, dropped balls including tds, bad special teams plays? False starts, illegal motions, substitution penalties, bad play calls have all happened after the team did something good, sometimes out standing like a goal line stand or a big 3rd down play so we could go for it on 4th.

Texas has lost to an emotional and fairly decent Maryland team to open the season. Two weeks in a row they have played ranked teams with high end recruiting classes and future NFL players all over the field. They have physically dominated those teams and even vs Maryland looked to have the better talent.

Tulsa held it's own, in Austin and if they had made field goals could have won. Talent is not an issue.
I agree. I don't think there is such a talent deficiency that we cannot compete. And the negative plays are killing this team and I think you're right, that is something that falls on coaches. They need to get tougher with the players making the mistakes and replace them for a series or two until they can find the discipline and toughness within themselves to earn their way back on the field
 
I agree. I don't think there is such a talent deficiency that we cannot compete. And the negative plays are killing this team and I think you're right, that is something that falls on coaches. They need to get tougher with the players making the mistakes and replace them for a series or two until they can find the discipline and toughness within themselves to earn their way back on the field

Punishing mistakes you create does not correct the problem.

Systematic failures are not corrected by changing parts, they are corrected by changing the system, sometimes fundamentally.
 
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Punishing mistakes you create does not correct the problem.

Systematic failures are not corrected by changing parts, they are corrected by changing the system, sometimes fundamentally.
You don't throw out an entire computer code just because it has a bug. You just fix the bug.
 
What if you have 20 bugs?

False starts

Interceptions

Lack of situational awareness

Personal foul penalties

Fumbles

Substitution issues

No attention to details

Bad clock management

Bad positional recruiting (if our QB is bad, he isn't)

Bad field position decisions

Bad returns

Bad field goal kicking.

Illegal formations

Confusion on sideline and field

Etc, etc, etc
 
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What if you have 20 bugs?

False starts

Interceptions

Lack of situational awareness

Personal foul penalties

Fumbles

Substitution issues

No attention to details

Bad clock management

Bad positional recruiting (if our QB is bad, he isn't)

Bad field position decisions

Bad returns

Bad field goal kicking.

Illegal formations

Confusion on sideline and field

Etc, etc, etc
You fix them one by one until your code works. Also, I think you're being pretty nitpicky on some of the stuff. Some things need to be prioritized more than others. The biggest things you didn't address which could prevent a host of the other problems is fixing the pass protection and drilling the line more to cut down on stupid penalties. (False Starts). Let us get into 3rd and manageable instead of 3rd and 17 and we'll probably cut down on the INT's and fumbles because we won't need to protect quite as long or make nearly as risky throws trying to play from behind.
 
You fix them one by one until your code works. Also, I think you're being pretty nitpicky on some of the stuff. Some things need to be prioritized more than others. The biggest things you didn't address which could prevent a host of the other problems is fixing the pass protection and drilling the line more to cut down on stupid penalties. (False Starts). Let us get into 3rd and manageable instead of 3rd and 17 and we'll probably cut down on the INT's and fumbles because we won't need to protect quite as long or make nearly as risky throws trying to play from behind.[/B]

Or you know, go to the root of the problem and fix it, the coach.

All those things you listed are caused by:

Bad field positioning.

Bad play calls putting us behind the chains, or getting sacked in the end zone.

Bad clock management that makes us have to be desperate.

Bad discipline and focus.

The coach doesn't throw and he doesn't catch and we do fine at those. The things the coach does, the team doesn't do well.
 
Or you know, go to the root of the problem and fix it, the coach.

All those things you listed are caused by:

Bad field positioning.

Bad play calls putting us behind the chains, or getting sacked in the end zone.

Bad clock management that makes us have to be desperate.

Bad discipline and focus.

The coach doesn't throw and he doesn't catch and we do fine at those. The things the coach does, the team doesn't do well.
The coach calls fine plays overall. There have been a couple calls I disagreed with, but nothing so attrocious that he should be let go. I saw far more calls from BB in Cody Green's senior year or GJ's senior year where I scratched my head.

Clock management only really matters when you're behind or protecting a lead. Get back to protecting our QB and scoring a lot of points, and it won't matter anymore as long as our defense keeps playing well. Bad field positioning. IDK what this is even referring to.

In any case... fix some fundamentals on offense and a lot of that becomes less of an issue.
 
The coach calls fine plays overall. There have been a couple calls I disagreed with, but nothing so attrocious that he should be let go. I saw far more calls from BB in Cody Green's senior year or GJ's senior year where I scratched my head.

Clock management only really matters when you're behind or protecting a lead. Get back to protecting our QB and scoring a lot of points, and it won't matter anymore as long as our defense keeps playing well. Bad field positioning. IDK what this is even referring to.

In any case... fix some fundamentals on offense and a lot of that becomes less of an issue.

Jet sweep in your own endzone.

Last two minutes of the temple game.

Fundementals are on the coaches.

Nothing has changed but the names of players in four years.
 
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Aston the play calling has been so predictable the last 2 years that my 8yr old nephew is calling out the plays before they snap the ball....maybe they need to bring Dane back to call the plays.
 
Jet sweep in your own endzone.

Last two minutes of the temple game.

Fundementals are on the coaches.

Nothing has changed but the names of players in four years.
No coach is going to call every single play correctly 100% of the time. Go ask Chad Morris or Gus Malzahn.
 
Or you know, go to the root of the problem and fix it, the coach.

All those things you listed are caused by:

Bad field positioning.

Bad play calls putting us behind the chains, or getting sacked in the end zone.

Bad clock management that makes us have to be desperate.

Bad discipline and focus.

The coach doesn't throw and he doesn't catch and we do fine at those. The things the coach does, the team doesn't do well.
In four games, Skipper has under thrown the deep sideline pass every time for multiple interceptions. Until the Temple game, Hobbs has been dropping way too many catchable balls. Skipper does throw a nice and accurate inside slant but his fumbles are killing this teams chance for success. The defense has really improved but this team cannot overcome multiple turnovers every game.
 
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Dane's passing stats : Sophmore - 3,102 tads , Junior : 4,332 yes & 25 tds , Senior : 3,348 yes & 32 ted's

This year Tulsa is averaging 172 passing yards per game . Dane is playing in the CFL for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats . We need another Dane Evans .
 
...
In any case... fix some fundamentals on offense and a lot of that becomes less of an issue.

I hate to be that guy, but, just a few fundamental on the offensive side should clean all this up?

Penalties - 106th
Fumbles Lost - 127th
Kickoff Returns - 114th
Passes Intercepted - 85th
Passing Offense - 106th
Passing Yards per completion - 108th
Red Zone offense - 115th
Sacks allowed - 122nd
Scoring Offense - 103rd
Tackles allowed for loss - 106th
Pass Efficiency - 114th (Skipper is 110th in passing efficiency, out of 125 ranked
Turnover Margin - 126th
Turnovers lost - 129th
Winning percentage - 102nd
https://stats.ncaa.org/rankings/ranking_summary

Seriously, that's a ton of offensive categories near the bottom. If all those very negative statistical categories are the result of bad fundamentals... then we are either recruiting players who have no fundamentals, players that are incapable of learning fundamentals, or a coaching staff who is not effective at teaching fundamentals. If you can spot the few little things that need to be fixed, please head down to 11th and let them know because we are 4 weeks into the season and they haven't adopted the simple fixes yet.
 
I hate to be that guy, but, just a few fundamental on the offensive side should clean all this up?

Penalties - 106th
Fumbles Lost - 127th
Kickoff Returns - 114th
Passes Intercepted - 85th
Passing Offense - 106th
Passing Yards per completion - 108th
Red Zone offense - 115th
Sacks allowed - 122nd
Scoring Offense - 103rd
Tackles allowed for loss - 106th
Pass Efficiency - 114th (Skipper is 110th in passing efficiency, out of 125 ranked
Turnover Margin - 126th
Turnovers lost - 129th
Winning percentage - 102nd
https://stats.ncaa.org/rankings/ranking_summary

Seriously, that's a ton of offensive categories near the bottom. If all those very negative statistical categories are the result of bad fundamentals... then we are either recruiting players who have no fundamentals, players that are incapable of learning fundamentals, or a coaching staff who is not effective at teaching fundamentals. If you can spot the few little things that need to be fixed, please head down to 11th and let them know because we are 4 weeks into the season and they haven't adopted the simple fixes yet.
Cleaning up penalties and pass protection from the offensive line would help in the following areas:

Penalties
Fumbles Lost (Fewer fumbles to lose)
Passes Intercepted (More time to make better decisions for the QB)
Passing Yards Per Completion (More time to complete long routes downfield)
Sacks Allowed (obvious)
Scoring Offense (Penalties and poor pass protection are killing drives that could result in scores)
Tackles For Loss (obvious)
Pass Efficiency (obvious)
Turnover Margin (fewer fumbles and likely fewer interceptions due to playing behind in score and behind the chains)
Winning percentage. Fewer Turnovers means more scoring opportunities and possibly more wins.

Literally every stat you mentioned has to do with poor line play effecting a young QB who would already be making mistakes even if his line was helping him out. The fact that the line isn't just means that his mistakes are multiplied.
 
The young QB is not a D1 QB. Protection does not help inability to read defenses and poor mechanics. He is not a winner. Change has to be made or Skipper will set the record for most turnovers in a season for a QB.
 
#astonmartin708 Absolutely. Poor offensive line blocking will affect nearly every offensive stat. So will poor execution. Poor discipline. Bad reads or passes by the QB. Plays that develop too slowly. Bad habits in ball handling. Bad play calling. Players that are not as athletic as the competition. Bad conditioning. Failing to adapt to game situations. Issues in one area, and the inability in others to adapt or compensate. Etc. etc. etc.

You've given two reasons for our unsatisfactory performance: 1) poor fundamentals or 2) poor offensive line play. That's entire possible, and I certainly agree that improvement in either category would help. But I think arguing that offensive line play is THE problem is hard to do when our running game is doin gOK. An offensive line is really only expected to provide 2-3 seconds for a QB to get a pass off (very few lines provide more than 3 seconds in the "time to pass" stat line). If we are on the quicker end of that window - why haven't we adapted the play calling? Kept a receiver back as an extra blocker? Do a shovel pass and punish them for the rush? We aren't the only team on the short end of the blocking stick... but we sure are suffering more than most.

And as to fundamentals - that's on recruiting and/or coaching. If it is an issue in game 4 of year 4... that is not a good sign.

I'm not convinced our problem is one or two things. I think we've got many problems. It's great fan fodder: some people can blame the QB, some can blame the line, some can blame the lack of an OC. At the end of the day, in year 4, it's all on coach. He's the one that needs to figure it out and fix it.
 
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All I can say is that, you need more than 2-3 seconds to run a deep route. Those routes usually take at least 4-5 seconds to unfold. (A 40 yard dash takes most receivers at least 4.5-4.9 seconds after all).
Yes, the QB can release a bit early, but not until he knows his receiver has his man beat and so far our receivers (especially our #1) haven't been blowing by guys early in the play.

Fix the protection and everything else will fall into line. Our QB will look better and so will our offense.
 
All I can say is that, you need more than 2-3 seconds to run a deep route. Those routes usually take at least 4-5 seconds to unfold. (A 40 yard dash takes most receivers at least 4.5-4.9 seconds after all).
Yes, the QB can release a bit early, but not until he knows his receiver has his man beat and so far our receivers (especially our #1) haven't been blowing by guys early in the play.

Fix the protection and everything else will fall into line. Our QB will look better and so will our offense.
MILLER has been making the same snap infraction penalty for four years now , I now just accept that it's going to be called every game . Our tackles get beat on the edge every third play . This is far from being one of the best offensive lines in TU history, hope they will continue to improve and prove us wrong.
 
The great think about this year is that we can appreciate real QB play next year with a guy who can run this system. It is just hard to watch this year with the talent at QB knowing where we could be this time next year.
 
The great think about this year is that we can appreciate real QB play next year with a guy who can run this system. It is just hard to watch this year with the talent at QB knowing where we could be this time next year.

President and Skipper were suppose to be the guys who could really run this offense, remember?

Four years of recruiting and we're waiting on a guy who couldn't make it at (1-11) Baylor now?

No improvements in QB play by anyone on our roster and everyone of them a Monty guy. Anyone here think President or Skipper got any better over the season last year, this off season or camp? How about through four games?

In fact can anyone point to any player he's recruited noticably improving under Monty?
 
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President and Skipper were suppose to be the guys who could really run this offense, remember?

Four years of recruiting and we're waiting on a guy who couldn't make it at (1-11) Baylor now?

No improvements in QB play by anyone on our roster and everyone of them a Monty guy. Anyone here think President or Skipper got any better over the season last year, this off season or camp? How about through four games?

In fact can anyone point to any player he's recruited noticably improving under Monty?
No. Not even a tiny bit of improvement. They each look exactly the same as they always have. If anything, it seems as if the team is regressing. Which is why I've wanted him gone since last season. He's a terrible coach, can't recruit decent talent, doesn't seem to discipline for mistakes that keep happening every game, terrible play caller, doesn't adapt at all, and on and on. It's pathetic. He needs to GTHO! Give some high school coach with an innovative and creative offense $700k/year for three years and tell him he has until year 3 to get to a bowl if not sooner.

I also remember how some on this board were giddy over President, until you saw his inability to throw a pass more than 5 yards down the field. Then the chants for Skipper came, and other on the board said he was a great passer and should be a great fit...now look at him. I do think Skipper is better than Chad, and I think he COULD be a serviceable QB, but he needs a coach to put him in good spots with good play calling.

We run ZERO misdirection, jet sweeps/fake sweeps, bootlegs, roll outs, very few RB screens, no WR middle screens, NOTHING to camouflage the deficiency of the Oline's poor pass protection. He is worthless and fits the definition of insane since he never changes anything but I assume expects different results.
 
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MILLER has been making the same snap infraction penalty for four years now , I now just accept that it's going to be called every game . Our tackles get beat on the edge every third play . This is far from being one of the best offensive lines in TU history, hope they will continue to improve and prove us wrong.
Wrong. He made a ton of them his FR year and they were virtually gone in year 2 with Dane (I can't remember more than 1 or 2 the entire season his Soph season). He made a couple last year and I chalked it up to the difference in the cadences between Skipper and President as most showed up when the switch was made. So far this year I think I've counted 2 that are on Miller. There were a ton his FR season. He has certainly improved in that. Also, his calling out coverages is invaluable. And if you watch, rarely is he ever beaten. Most of the pressure has come from outside. Miller is not the problem on this OL. Neither are the 2 OGs. Our issues are clearly the tackles. Both have pretty bad footwork (and slow) and I honestly think that their arms are too short to really be effective against guys who are using the outside speed rush. Usually your OTs are tall, quick feet with a really strong first drop step and long arms.

Watch most of the plays where Skipper is getting pressured. It's usually an outside rusher or a blitz. If Brooks or Taylor are in the game, their first blocking read is making sure pressure is not coming up the middle and then they release as an outlet. Maybe the adjustment needs to be made, especially if you know one of your OTs is going to have trouble with an outside rusher is to have the RB chip that rusher on a double team and then release.

Also, I know I heard it mentioned that the new cut-block rule is affecting teams like Navy and Army, teams who run the triple option. I don't know exactly what the rule is but I wonder if that is affecting us as well (not that I remember us ever being much of a cut block team since Bloesch has been here). Anyone?
 
Wrong. He made a ton of them his FR year and they were virtually gone in year 2 with Dane (I can't remember more than 1 or 2 the entire season his Soph season). He made a couple last year and I chalked it up to the difference in the cadences between Skipper and President as most showed up when the switch was made. So far this year I think I've counted 2 that are on Miller. There were a ton his FR season. He has certainly improved in that. Also, his calling out coverages is invaluable. And if you watch, rarely is he ever beaten. Most of the pressure has come from outside. Miller is not the problem on this OL. Neither are the 2 OGs. Our issues are clearly the tackles. Both have pretty bad footwork (and slow) and I honestly think that their arms are too short to really be effective against guys who are using the outside speed rush. Usually your OTs are tall, quick feet with a really strong first drop step and long arms.

Watch most of the plays where Skipper is getting pressured. It's usually an outside rusher or a blitz. If Brooks or Taylor are in the game, their first blocking read is making sure pressure is not coming up the middle and then they release as an outlet. Maybe the adjustment needs to be made, especially if you know one of your OTs is going to have trouble with an outside rusher is to have the RB chip that rusher on a double team and then release.

Also, I know I heard it mentioned that the new cut-block rule is affecting teams like Navy and Army, teams who run the triple option. I don't know exactly what the rule is but I wonder if that is affecting us as well (not that I remember us ever being much of a cut block team since Bloesch has been here). Anyone?

The cut block rule that changed is about when you can do it. You must be in front of the person when you cut. So you can't dive from behind to cut or come in from the side. Basically you need to be face to face to cut block.
 
The cut block rule that changed is about when you can do it. You must be in front of the person when you cut. So you can't dive from behind to cut or come in from the side. Basically you need to be face to face to cut block.
Thanks. And that makes sense. I think the side cuts are the ones that were the questionably dangerous blocks they are trying to eliminate. The from behind cut blocks have been called clipping as long as I have been alive. Watching the triple option operate a lot of the FB runs up the middle rely on the OL getting down and cutting the DL and if the DL sets up in an offset where none of their guys are square up with the blocker, there are some potentially devastating knee and ankle injuries that occur.
 
In Kelly’s piece today, she said she wouldn’t be surprised to see a qb change if skipper continues to struggle (she also said that she was surprised he wasn’t pulled after his 2nd turnover at temple last week). I suppose we’ll see a week from tomorrow.
 
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