What the H3ll is wrong with the Minneapolis Police?
- Thread starter TUMe
- Start date
To be fair, I’m just as worried about the cops acting rashly as I am the protestors. I don’t trust the entirety of either side of the equation... but only one side doesn’t get punished when they do wrong.
They put him in handcuffs. Even if they didn't go through the formal processing of placing him under arrest, the visual to the public is that he was arrested. That one was ridiculous. The Tulsa PD officer who shot a pepperball at a channel 8 reporter on Sunday night was ridiculous. Guy was standing off to the side with his camera person. These are the actions people are protesting. They are so over the top shows of power for no reason at all other than the fact they are wearing a badge and perceive that they can. The same with the DC police and Secret Service just charging at protesters and reporters to clear a path for the Holy Pumpkin yesterday so he can have a photo op outside of a church holding a Bible, upside down and backwards (so no real proof it was actually a Bible). This man is waging war on everyone who's not a millionaire. Even the very people who voted for him will sign find out he doesn't give a rats ass about them.
The distrust between the police and people who live in the north part of St. Louis city is palpable when you visit. It's truly awful.
East St. Louis is a pretty scary place. When driving into St. Louis proper from the south (or west) from I-55 or I-44, you get 8 lanes of traffic that merge just south of the arch. If you get pushed into the right lane, you end up on the bridge and stuck going over the river into Illinois and East St. Louis. The first opportunity to get off the highway and turn around dumps you near one of the riverboats. There is a large East StL police station right there. It's the same interchange ramp they used in National Lampoon's Vacation scene. Passing under the bridge to get back to the on ramp to go in the opposite direction can be pretty frightening.
A funny (somewhat) story of driving around St. Louis. When my wife (then GF) was compiling transcripts for grad school, she had to go to UMSL to pick up a transcript. We had visited her mom at her workplace in U-City before going. On the way back, she wanted to go back the way we came and I mentioned that I think if we go this way it will be a lot quicker. She was like, "I don't really think we want to go that way"...but I insisted (I am a directional driver). We ended up on the neighborhood just north and west of downtown St. Louis...the neighborhood Nelly raps about. Bars on windows (if windows were present). It was rough. We did end up getting back to where we needed to be and quicker than the way we originally went. But I let my wife do the navigating in St. Louis now. BTW, none of the major roads in St. Louis run a neat east/west or north/south. The rivers force everything in a weird way. My brain compass doesn't seem to work as well in StL
The cops who cleared the street for Trump to stroll across and take a ludicrous photo with the church, also tear-gassed a priest and seminarian at the church who had been handing out water, snacks, and hand sanitizer to the protesters. They then began shoving the church reps away from the church.
https://religionnews.com/2020/06/02...priest-from-st-johns-church-near-white-house/
I wish Trump's base actually cared enough about their religion to see that priests aiding people in times of trouble shouldn't be mistreated just so the President can take a photo related to a religion he clearly doesn't believe in or know anything about.
https://religionnews.com/2020/06/02...priest-from-st-johns-church-near-white-house/
I wish Trump's base actually cared enough about their religion to see that priests aiding people in times of trouble shouldn't be mistreated just so the President can take a photo related to a religion he clearly doesn't believe in or know anything about.
People are being maimed and blinded by police firing their rubber (with steel core) projectiles at protester's faces. From facebook... yes I know I hate facebook too. But, this is probably the 10th instance of someone being blinded by these bullets that I've seen.
Been struggling to find the right words to post about this.
On Saturday night, Sean and I went to the protest at the Plaza. We saw so much beauty and togetherness among our fellow protesters all day and night and we are so grateful for that. We also saw a lot of fear and a lot of violence, almost entirely on the side of the police.
After the police tear-gassed the crowd without warning, someone ran into me and knocked me over. I hit my head hard on the ground and lost consciousness for a brief moment. Sean came to my rescue. He picked me up and pull me into the park, a place where police had told us to go, a place where police had led us to believe was safe. Once we were on the grass, I told Sean to stop because I wasn’t feeling alright. He pulled me behind a tree to be extra safe. I sat down and he crouched down in front of me. He told me to look at him. As I was looking at him, all of sudden I saw an object fly from the direction of the militarized police line and strike him in the face. He fell backwards and cried out in pain. He screamed he had been shot in the face. I pulled his hands away and saw blood gushing out of where his left eye should have been. In that instant, I felt like we under attack. And thinking back now, we were under attack. A police officer aimed their rubber-bullet gun at Sean and shot it right at his face while he was in a place they were telling us to go, while he was tending to someone else, me, who was hurt. It was vicious. It was cruel. It was heartless. It was and is incomprehensible to me.
I helped Sean up and told him we had to get out of there. We ran further into the park, crying out for help. In all of this tragedy, I find warmth and light in the response we got to these cries. Several of our fellow protesters rushed to our aid. At least three people—please share this and help us identify them so we can thank them—had Sean lay on his back so they could clean out his wound which was gushing blood. Multiple people also came to my aid, as I was screaming and crying at Sean’s feet. One of them, my new dear friend Toast, held me tight as I cried and screamed. The harder I cried, the tighter Toast held me. Eventually we decided we had to get Sean to the hospital. And that ended up being like trying to cross through a war zone to get there. We were terrified we would be attacked again just for trying to get him to the help he so desperately needed. Thankfully we weren’t. We got to the ER safely and Sean was taken care of my a slew of kind, caring and compassionate medical professionals. He was in surgery all of yesterday morning. They did everything they could but sadly it wasn’t enough to save his left eye. He will never see out of it again, and he might have to have it completely removed in the future. I am heartbroken. I am furious. I am tired.
Been struggling to find the right words to post about this.
On Saturday night, Sean and I went to the protest at the Plaza. We saw so much beauty and togetherness among our fellow protesters all day and night and we are so grateful for that. We also saw a lot of fear and a lot of violence, almost entirely on the side of the police.
After the police tear-gassed the crowd without warning, someone ran into me and knocked me over. I hit my head hard on the ground and lost consciousness for a brief moment. Sean came to my rescue. He picked me up and pull me into the park, a place where police had told us to go, a place where police had led us to believe was safe. Once we were on the grass, I told Sean to stop because I wasn’t feeling alright. He pulled me behind a tree to be extra safe. I sat down and he crouched down in front of me. He told me to look at him. As I was looking at him, all of sudden I saw an object fly from the direction of the militarized police line and strike him in the face. He fell backwards and cried out in pain. He screamed he had been shot in the face. I pulled his hands away and saw blood gushing out of where his left eye should have been. In that instant, I felt like we under attack. And thinking back now, we were under attack. A police officer aimed their rubber-bullet gun at Sean and shot it right at his face while he was in a place they were telling us to go, while he was tending to someone else, me, who was hurt. It was vicious. It was cruel. It was heartless. It was and is incomprehensible to me.
I helped Sean up and told him we had to get out of there. We ran further into the park, crying out for help. In all of this tragedy, I find warmth and light in the response we got to these cries. Several of our fellow protesters rushed to our aid. At least three people—please share this and help us identify them so we can thank them—had Sean lay on his back so they could clean out his wound which was gushing blood. Multiple people also came to my aid, as I was screaming and crying at Sean’s feet. One of them, my new dear friend Toast, held me tight as I cried and screamed. The harder I cried, the tighter Toast held me. Eventually we decided we had to get Sean to the hospital. And that ended up being like trying to cross through a war zone to get there. We were terrified we would be attacked again just for trying to get him to the help he so desperately needed. Thankfully we weren’t. We got to the ER safely and Sean was taken care of my a slew of kind, caring and compassionate medical professionals. He was in surgery all of yesterday morning. They did everything they could but sadly it wasn’t enough to save his left eye. He will never see out of it again, and he might have to have it completely removed in the future. I am heartbroken. I am furious. I am tired.
Last edited:
I have sympathy for the cops are assholes narrative, but in a riot crap is going to happen. Innocent people will get hurt and people aren't going to like the level of response it takes to end this, but at this point I don't care. People are getting killed every night now. It's time to crush this. It was time 4 days ago.
You're conflating riots with protests. Not all of these protests have been riots. The level of response it takes to end this is the President of the United States saying I am going to push congress as well as state governments to put in place reforms to police accountability. I am going to fight for the thousands of people who are trying to have their voice heard and who want to live in peace. He wouldn't need to "crush this" if he weren't such an opportunistic coward who wants to pander to the worst parts of his base.
I feel for the guy above. However, people need to understand when they are around people who are involved in looting, vandalism, destruction of property, assaults, etc....they become targets as well as those doing the bad deeds. People who don't want to be involved in that type of criminal activity need to get the hell out when it starts or risk injury. The Plaza has been a hot spot for violent protests. Stores looted and vandalized. Cars burned. People injured. When that crap starts people who are peaceful need to get the hell out of there.
I am not sure that is the best response. It may backfire.
I am not claiming to know what the right answer is, because you obviously can't just ignore it. It's not an easy situation. These are the times that require real leadership. Something that is sadly lacking.
And yeah, crap happens in a riot. I've seen videos that make both sides look terrible. Rioters looting and setting things on fire, cops attacking crowds with seemingly no reason at all before curfew and firing rubber bullets and tear gas at people kneeling peacefully. But none of that excuses Trump himself for tear gassing a priest to get to the priest's church for a photo op.
How would you like it if people started saying that about police officers?
"people who are around people who are involved in shootings of innocents, needless aggression, abuse of authority, and downright assholeish behavior, etc... they become targets" What happens when the people start straight up attacking the police (even the "good guys") simply because they are associated with the handful of bad guys?
This attitude that you're espousing of being OK with innocents being brutalized is not safe. It leads to anger and resentment and ultimately more violence. The best way to end the violence and protests / riots isn't to crack down, it is to acknowledge why the people are taking to the streets. It's to make your representatives aware that you want this to end and you want it to end on both sides.
On a positive note, I have seen many acts of rationality on both sides. Protesters shouting down or ostracizing violent insurrectionists. Police officers joining the protesters.
Last edited:
I conflated nothing. "Innocent people will get hurt" <-- That's me giving the guy the benefit of the doubt and assuming he wasn't doing anything wrong and was just a regular protester. But when this stuff is going on and police/national guard have to respond with force(and they DO have to) innocents will get hurt, either due to asshole cops or people just getting caught in crossfire.
Because most of the rioting has nothing to do with the regular protests or "getting their voice heard" I'm pretty skeptical that the reforms(which do need to be made) will do anything to stop the rioting. The 23 year old white asthmatic virgins that just came out of mother's basement for the first time in 3 years to break crap don't actually care.
East St. Louis is a pretty scary place. When driving into St. Louis proper from the south (or west) from I-55 or I-44, you get 8 lanes of traffic that merge just south of the arch. If you get pushed into the right lane, you end up on the bridge and stuck going over the river into Illinois and East St. Louis. The first opportunity to get off the highway and turn around dumps you near one of the riverboats. There is a large East StL police station right there. It's the same interchange ramp they used in National Lampoon's Vacation scene. Passing under the bridge to get back to the on ramp to go in the opposite direction can be pretty frightening.
A funny (somewhat) story of driving around St. Louis. When my wife (then GF) was compiling transcripts for grad school, she had to go to UMSL to pick up a transcript. We had visited her mom at her workplace in U-City before going. On the way back, she wanted to go back the way we came and I mentioned that I think if we go this way it will be a lot quicker. She was like, "I don't really think we want to go that way"...but I insisted (I am a directional driver). We ended up on the neighborhood just north and west of downtown St. Louis...the neighborhood Nelly raps about. Bars on windows (if windows were present). It was rough. We did end up getting back to where we needed to be and quicker than the way we originally went. But I let my wife do the navigating in St. Louis now. BTW, none of the major roads in St. Louis run a neat east/west or north/south. The rivers force everything in a weird way. My brain compass doesn't seem to work as well in StL
St Louis is Boring.
I would agree. I'm not sure why this is even a question. The other cops should have stepped in and prevented that murder. Good cops need to point out bad cops and get them off the force. It's the only real solution imo. If you're in a group who is burning cars, looting, assaulting people you are not only now part of the problem but you are distracting from the issues at hand. Destroying your neighbors property or worse assaulting him/her is not a protest. It's a crime. Many of the businesses in the Plaza are individually owned by the people of KC. I'm at a loss as to why these protesters want to hurt those people or why anyone would defend or be a party of the same.
Btw does anyone think there will be any appetite for demilitarizing police, which I am in favor of, after this? It's pretty hard for either the blm protesters or people like myself to even make that argument now
"If you are on a police force that doesn't punish cops who abuse their office, you are part of the problem and you are distracting from the issue at hand" /s
You can't lump every good / innocent person in with every bad person. You can only promote the idea that the good people take account for the bad people. That's what the protests are all about!
What I'm saying is, you're lumping the good protesters in with the looters and are justifying (or explaining away) the good protesters being injured. It's not a long mental leap to justify good cops from being injured because of the actions of the bad ones.
Agree Just like we can't lump every good cop with every bad cop. My point again is that when the protest turns violent don't remain in the protest. You're in the same position as those cops who stood around and watched that guy die. If you're part of a group who is looting and destroying your neighbors property you have no high ground by saying Johnny did it...I just watched.
Uh.... Yeah... with at least half the country.
It's not hard to imagine a scenario where protests, riots, and crimes truly in the name of liberty were put down by these same militarized police in an authoritarian regime. The founding fathers probably wouldn't have succeeded if they were up against similarly equipped civic authorities as well as an overpowered military.
So does that mean that the people of Minneapolis should have been able to bum rush the cops who were killing / watching the guy die in the street and permanently injure them with no due process? That's effectively what these riot squads are doing.
I think you overestimate the extent to which people want that(I wish more did) and severely underestimate what the British military was. But we'll see
I don't think the British Military was nearly as powerful as our current military, and moreover, the constabulary of the colonies wasn't in any way comparable to this modern militarized police force.
If someone sees one human being in the process of murdering another human being I would absolutely support the idea of the bystander taking steps to prevent the murder. The idea that our state, local and federal government doesn't have the responsibility to protect our property and safety from those who are trying to either take or destroy the same escapes me. This isn't the Purge. Left unchecked, these rioters would likely torch and destroy entire areas with or without people in them. Along these lines, rioters set fire to a number of buildings in Richmond last night including a multi-family structure with a child inside. Yeah....the police need to stop these types of actions.
Aston...you do realize that people live in the upstairs of many of those buildings in the Plaza....right?
Last edited:
If anyone had tried to stop that police killing in a manner significant enough to injure one of those officers they would have been shot dead in the street and we'd be right back here. But the police would be able to say that they were provoked.
Again, the solution to the violence and hatred isn't crushing revolts (unless you're just interested in being a despot and you think giving into the people's voice would lose you power.) The solution is the leaders listening to what the people are frustrated about before it's too late, because it will only get worse if it continues. That's what leads to violent revolutions (or civil wars) and people on the losing side being summarily executed. It's not like the people are rioting over something that their government is simply unable to provide at the moment (like food in times of starvation) they're rioting over things that are relatively simple to fix. Hold police to the same (if not higher) account in regards to justice as a normal citizen. It's not hard. The real problem is that our oligarchy is tinged with despotism and a thirst for wealth / power.
Last edited:
People in and out of law enforcement know how to end riots. There’s ample practical and academic study on the subject. All of this should never have occurred, but the response of law enforcement was politicized. That gave it enough time to fester and get beyond simple solutions.
The problem is too many people with a narrow world view have been manipulated into believing America is an oligarchy and their childish self centered behavior that makes them think it’s ok to loot; or worse, they can go to a looting party, not participate, and leave unharmed.
I support dialogue and reforms. In revolutions the people target those in power not one another. That is not what we're generally seeing here. The idea of letting people loot, pillage and burn without resistance is absurd. Too many innocent lives at stake. Like I said above, people live upstairs in the Plaza area. Once the rioting and burning began it had to be stopped. If you're pissed at the police then target the police and not your neighbor.
The response of the protesters was politicized as well. People picked sides. I'll note that I was the first one on the board who mentioned my distaste with the violence, looting, etc...
Law enforcement knows the theoretical methodology to break up riots. They know what formations to stand in, and what tactics and weapons to use to encourage large groups to disperse... but they aren't able to fix the underlying problems that caused the commotion in the first place. Only the people that write the laws / make the policies can do that.... and eventually the frustrated masses can overtake the police and at some point they may even become frustrated enough to take on the military as well.
The longer we let the wound fester, the worse the results are going to be for the patient.
The problem is they people looting and burning are at a loss for what to do. The various administrations refuse to take action. If they start fighting the police they are likely to be injured or killed as the authority figures begin to fight back with superior force.
I support dialogue and reforms as well, but pretty much no one in any place of power to change anything from purple Minnesota to blue California to red Kentucky has supported such reforms and the one guy who could bring an overarching support for reform, is more interested in crushing those who are angry and inflaming his base than he is to actually making a positive change.
The elimination of public employee unions would go a long way toward eliminating corrupt public employees in all functions. Unions promote fear among the ranks.
What exactly are the sides? I don't think my position is substantially different from yours
I have mixed feelings on this. I don't like the government bending perpetually to every policeman's union. But, I also think that the public employee unions provide benefits for the "good guys" that every Republican likes to talk about on the police force so they are adequately compensated and more likely to be retained in a profession that is admittedly difficult.
I'm split.
My cop friends know the bad ones.. but they also tell me that speaking out against them puts their promotions and employment protections at risk...
Not to mention that unions tend to support non reform minded candidates.
He's got the entire evangelical right fooled. He will literally say anything to make them happy if it means they keep sending him wads of cash and keeps him in power, which in turn will make him more piles of $$$. This is all he cares about and we all know it.
I don't disagree. But, there are also positives to those unions existing. I think the solution to the police militarization / the protection of bad cops by the union is to more heavily regulate the union's ability to protect bad cops not to get rid of the union's influence on their profession altogether.
^THIS People wonder why the good cops don't say anything or stop the bad cops. We all know why. The ones who get along and play well with the popular kids are the ones that get moved up and earn more. I am not friends with Popsey Floyd on any social media but he was one of the good cops and I have wondered why he stepped away. I wonder if he just tired of being the one Tulsa cop everyone, including the media, looked to for thoughts on race relations between the PD and citizens, more specifically, citizens of North Tulsa.
Saying that is like saying that Biden has the whole black voting block fooled after 50 years in govt. They keep feeding him and the Dems votes and making rich white dems richer and what do they have to show for it? Seriously.. since Johnson started buying votes for the traditionally oppressive dem party in the 60s have things really changed?
I would argue that it's been slow, but yes things have changed. African Americans are more represented in culture, art, science, music and political positions. Their voting rights are less infringed upon, and liberals would like to see them infringed upon even less. Same goes for civil liberties.
