What the H3ll is wrong with the Minneapolis Police?

[HuffyCane]

Or you could say that by standing in a public thoroughfare not designated as a crosswalk for the purpose of intentionally blocking traffic for political reasons constitutes consent to being hit by the car or the act of the car hitting is reasonably foreseeable and therefore the contact is consensual. Conversely, the driver does not consent to the unlawful battery of their personal property in close proximity to their person and so intimately tied to their body that the car is a constructive extension of their person and so therefore committing an unlawful or unwelcome touching is not unlawful provided only contact takes place that is necessary to cease the touching. As we saw here. That’s the difference between this video and Charlottesville.

 

[astonmartin708]

[QUOTE="HuffyCane, post: 299658, member: 416"]Or you could say that by standing in a public thoroughfare not designated as a crosswalk for the purpose of intentionally blocking traffic for political reasons constitutes consent to being hit by the car or the act of the car hitting is reasonably foreseeable and therefore the contact is consensual. Conversely, the driver does not consent to the unlawful battery of their personal property in close proximity to their person and so intimately tied to their body that the car is a constructive extension of their person and so therefore committing an unlawful or unwelcome touching is not unlawful provided only contact takes place that is necessary to cease the touching. As we saw here. That’s the difference between this video and Charlottesville.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with this. Being in the road is not consent to being hit by a car. It may have some inherent dangers associated with it, meaning drivers that can't stop or weren't expecting you, but that's clearly not what was happening here. If this were the case, then any case of jaywalking would be considered consent to being hit.

 

[maverickfp]

Last week you said it was reckless for a cop to shoot near a crowd and he should be tried for murder. You sticking to that now?

Crickets.

 

[HuffyCane]

[QUOTE="HuffyCane, post: 299658, member: 416"]Or you could say that by standing in a public thoroughfare not designated as a crosswalk for the purpose of intentionally blocking traffic for political reasons constitutes consent to being hit by the car or the act of the car hitting is reasonably foreseeable and therefore the contact is consensual. Conversely, the driver does not consent to the unlawful battery of their personal property in close proximity to their person and so intimately tied to their body that the car is a constructive extension of their person and so therefore committing an unlawful or unwelcome touching is not unlawful provided only contact takes place that is necessary to cease the touching. As we saw here. That’s the difference between this video and Charlottesville.

I don't agree with this. Being in the road is not consent to being hit by a car. It may have some inherent dangers associated with it, meaning drivers that can't stop or weren't expecting you, but that's clearly not what was happening here. If this were the case, then any case of jaywalking would be considered consent to being hit.[/QUOTE]
So basically, you are ok with excusing drivers who hit people through no fault of their own. You are also ok with drivers who hit people who recklessly walk into traffic. You are also not OK with people who stand in the street and point guns at drivers. However, if you agree with the stated political purpose of people who wander in the streets, obstruct the thoroughfare intentionally, or violate pedestrian traffic control, then you are OK with that, and the drivers should change their behavior, particularly if someone is pointing a gun at them and shoots them. Before that happens, drivers must behave differently to accommodate you and them and prevent themselves from being shot. Listen to yourself.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

In case anyone was wondering why someone might feel the need to drive through one of these crowds. This driver was shot

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Way to passive aggressively choose a starting point for a new event.

 

[URedskin54]

Way to passive aggressively choose a starting point for a new event.

I'm confused?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I'm confused?

Gmoney4WW said: ↑
Sounded like it was a bit of not knowing what was going on, that led to fear. A black lady in front of the truck had some sort of emergency going on and the crowd let her pass. The truck probably didn't know she had an emergency, tried to follow her through, then got blocked. He probably thought it was because she was black that she was let through, and the reason that he was being blocked was because he wasn't black. He took it up a notch when he put his gun on the dash, and then said let me through.

It's easy to see how he might have been scared at that point, having his truck being hit by fists and water bottles. It is a logical thing to understand that he thought he needed to get out of there, to avoid getting pulled out of the vehicle. It's a catch 22 type of situation about your fears of what could happen, and what would happen if you pull through the crowd inflicting damage on the protestors.

 

[URedskin54]

Gmoney4WW said: ↑
Sounded like it was a bit of not knowing what was going on, that led to fear. A black lady in front of the truck had some sort of emergency going on and the crowd let her pass. The truck probably didn't know she had an emergency, tried to follow her through, then got blocked. He probably thought it was because she was black that she was let through, and the reason that he was being blocked was because he wasn't black. He took it up a notch when he put his gun on the dash, and then said let me through.

It's easy to see how he might have been scared at that point, having his truck being hit by fists and water bottles. It is a logical thing to understand that he thought he needed to get out of there, to avoid getting pulled out of the vehicle. It's a catch 22 type of situation about your fears of what could happen, and what would happen if you pull through the crowd inflicting damage on the protestors.

Yeah, I still don't understand what you said I was doing

 

[HuffyCane]

EDIT: enlarged video clearly shows the vehicle inching through the crowd when a man approaches the vehicle and points a pistol at him. At that point the driver accelerates enough to clear the crowd and as the final protestor steps away from the hood, the gun man shoots through the passenger side window, injuring the driver. Attempted murder should be filed, unless the victim expires.

Suspect in custody. Charged with attempted murder. You heard it here first.

Three years to life at the discretion of the parole board that makes money keeping you in prison. See you in ten years hippie.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Yeah, I still don't understand what you said I was doing

Maybe I misunderstood. I just didn't see how the first situation I was talking about, directly applied to incident where the protestor shot the person driving. If you saw some indirect way which the two situations were applicable to each other, then I would have thought you would mention that. Instead you just quoted it, and then mentioned the new event. It seemed like a backhanded way to make a negative comment on what I said about the former event. As I mentioned before, sorry if
I misunderstood.

 

[URedskin54]

Maybe I misunderstood. I just didn't see how the first situation I was talking about, directly applied to incident where the protestor shot the person driving. If you saw some indirect way which the two situations were applicable to each other, then I would have thought you would mention that. Instead you just quoted it, and then mentioned the new event. It seemed like a backhanded way to make a negative comment on what I said about the former event. As I mentioned before, sorry if
I misunderstood.

Nope not my intention. Sorry if it seemed that way. I was just quoting you because this thread had gone on to a bunch of other different topics and your comment seemed like a good way to link back to the previous conversation. I think my comment before was that people crowding around a car makes people scared and nervous so they end up driving through to get out of the situation. The reason I thought this was relevant is that this is the exact kind of situation that people are worried about when a crowd surrounds their car. They don't know if anyone there wants to do them harm.

 

[HuffyCane]

Nope not my intention. Sorry if it seemed that way. I was just quoting you because this thread had gone on to a bunch of other different topics and your comment seemed like a good way to link back to the previous conversation. I think my comment before was that people crowding around a car makes people scared and nervous so they end up driving through to get out of the situation. The reason I thought this was relevant is that this is the exact kind of situation that people are worried about when a crowd surrounds their car. They don't know if anyone there wants to do them harm.

This incident proves they rightly should.

 

[URedskin54]

Another good example of why people drive though protesters when they surround their car: Last night in Atlanta armed protesters outside the Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed surrounded a car, opened fire, and murdered an 8 year old child. I hurt for these parents

 

[astonmartin708]

Another good example of why people drive though protesters when they surround their car: Last night in Atlanta armed protesters outside the Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed surrounded a car, opened fire, and murdered an 8 year old child. I hurt for these parents

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The article doesn't say they were protesters. You might infer that they were, and it's possible they were, but that's not been proven. Also, we don't know all the facts about what went on. It seems highly unlikely to me that a group of BLM protesters would just shoot some a random car full of other black people. I'm guessing there's more to the story here.

 

[aTUfan]

ok, its been several week, has any of the black leadership offered any solutions?

because rioting, burning, looting, blocking traffic, tearing down statues, shaming people to think they are racist, creating chop zones, de-funding the police, thought policing, and blm aren't solutions.

 

[astonmartin708]

ok, its been several week, has any of the black leadership offered any solutions?

because rioting, burning, looting, blocking traffic, tearing down statues, shaming people to think they are racist, creating chop zones, de-funding the police, thought policing, and blm aren't solutions.

Getting rid of qualified immunity is.

 

[lawpoke87]

The article doesn't say they were protesters. You might infer that they were, and it's possible they were, but that's not been proven. Also, we don't know all the facts about what went on. It seems highly unlikely to me that a group of BLM protesters would just shoot some a random car full of other black people. I'm guessing there's more to the story here.

Both the mayor and Atlanta PD have said the shots were fired by protestors who had put up barricades across the street near the Wendy’s.

 

[astonmartin708]

Both the mayor and Atlanta PD have said the shots were fired by protestors who had put up barricades across the street near the Wendy’s.

This is in that same area a few days earlier. It seems like there's a lot of tension in that area in terms of anger against protesters from people who are inconvenienced and actual racists.



There was also a girl who got shot in the leg a couple days ago in the area who they're saying might have been shot by an upset white guy. I'd like to know all the facts about this incident that ended up in the death of the little girl before making an inference. There are lots of reasons why a little girl might end up in a line of fire and I'm sure that no one was specifically targeting her.

 

[lawpoke87]

This is in that same area a few days earlier. It seems like there's a lot of tension in that area in terms of anger against protesters from people who are inconvenienced and actual racists.

View embedded media

There was also a girl who got shot in the leg a couple days ago in the area who they're saying might have been shot by an upset white guy. I'd like to know all the facts about this incident that ended up in the death of the little girl before making an inference. There are lots of reasons why a little girl might end up in a line of fire and I'm sure that no one was specifically targeting her.

They targeted the car she was riding in not her.

 

[URedskin54]

Amazing

 

[astonmartin708]

They targeted the car she was riding in not her.

My question is, why? Was it gang violence, was it a drug deal gone wrong, was there a confrontation between the car driver / passenger and the protesters? Did the person driving the car reach for a gun? It just seems odd that someone would shoot at a car randomly. I'll reserve judgment until I know more facts.

 

[lawpoke87]

My question is, why? Was it gang violence, was it a drug deal gone wrong, was there a confrontation between the car driver / passenger and the protesters? Did the person driving the car reach for a gun? It just seems odd that someone would shoot at a car randomly. I'll reserve judgment until I know more facts.

Here ya go. Nice of the protesters to put the barriers back up less than an hour after they murdered an 8 year old girl.

Authorities said the mother had attempted to drive through illegally placed barricades in the area when the vehicle came under fire Saturday night.

“You shot and killed a baby,” the mayor said, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. “And there wasn’t just one shooter, there were at least two shooters.”

In a statement Sunday, police said the girl was in a car with her mother and a friend of the mother when they got off Interstate-75/85 onto University Avenue and were trying to enter a parking lot nearby. They ran into a group of armed individuals who had blocked the entrance.

“At some point, someone in that group opened fire on the vehicle, striking it multiple times and striking the child who was inside,” the statement read. The driver drove the girl to Atlanta Medical Center but she did not survive.

Police said they are seeking help from the public to identify those involved and released a wanted poster saying a person all dressed in black and another in a white T-shirt were being sought.

The mayor said there have been problems with protesters in the area putting up barriers to close off the street. She said she received a message that the barriers were back up less than an hour before she was informed that the 8-year-old girl had died.

“An 8-year-old girl was killed last night because her mother was riding down the street,” Bottoms said. “If Secoriea was not safe last night, none of us are safe.”

 

[astonmartin708]

Here ya go. Nice of the protesters to put the barriers back up less than an hour after they murdered an 8 year old girl.

Authorities said the mother had attempted to drive through illegally placed barricades in the area when the vehicle came under fire Saturday night.

“You shot and killed a baby,” the mayor said, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. “And there wasn’t just one shooter, there were at least two shooters.”

In a statement Sunday, police said the girl was in a car with her mother and a friend of the mother when they got off Interstate-75/85 onto University Avenue and were trying to enter a parking lot nearby. They ran into a group of armed individuals who had blocked the entrance.

“At some point, someone in that group opened fire on the vehicle, striking it multiple times and striking the child who was inside,” the statement read. The driver drove the girl to Atlanta Medical Center but she did not survive.

Police said they are seeking help from the public to identify those involved and released a wanted poster saying a person all dressed in black and another in a white T-shirt were being sought.

The mayor said there have been problems with protesters in the area putting up barriers to close off the street. She said she received a message that the barriers were back up less than an hour before she was informed that the 8-year-old girl had died.

“An 8-year-old girl was killed last night because her mother was riding down the street,” Bottoms said. “If Secoriea was not safe last night, none of us are safe.”

You think I can't read the news? I've already read that AP article and it doesn't give any facts related to the actual shooting. It just states the setting. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have no idea of the facts surrounding the actual incident other than the girl was in a car that was near a place where protesters have been and the car encountered people with guns.

Did they just decide to open up since the car turned down a barricaded street? Or was there more to it than that? We don't know, but I'd suspect there probably is.

 

[lawpoke87]

You think I can't read the news? I've already read that AP article and it doesn't give any facts related to the actual shooting. It just states the setting. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have no idea of the facts surrounding the actual incident other than the girl was in a car that was near a place where protesters have been and the car encountered people with guns.

Did they just decide to open up since the car turned down a barricaded street? Or was there more to it than that? We don't know, but I'd suspect there probably is.

I figured the eye witness accounts from the deceased girls mother or witnesses at the scene would be enough for you for form an opinion. Thus I posted the story.

 

[astonmartin708]

"At some point, people started shooting" is about the worst eyewitness account in the history of the world.

 

[lawpoke87]

I would assume the driver (girl’s mother) had a pretty good view of what occurred which is where the details of the car as far as exiting and turning into the parking lot came from. Not sure you can get a better first hand account than from her.

 

[aTUfan]

You think I can't read the news? I've already read that AP article and it doesn't give any facts related to the actual shooting. It just states the setting. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have no idea of the facts surrounding the actual incident other than the girl was in a car that was near a place where protesters have been and the car encountered people with guns.

Did they just decide to open up since the car turned down a barricaded street? Or was there more to it than that? We don't know, but I'd suspect there probably is.

And according to Paul Harver "and now, the rest of the story"

 

[astonmartin708]

I would assume the driver (girl’s mother) had a pretty good view of what occurred which is where the details of the car as far as exiting and turning into the parking lot came from. Not sure you can get a better first hand account than from her.

Here's a better article as to the situation in my opinion. At least it gives some more context and an account from other people who were there.

Protesters who’ve been gathering at the burned out Wendy’s where Rayshard Brooks was killed in a confrontation with Atlanta police are now expressing sadness and outrage over another death.

Secoriea Turner, 8, was shot dead when an armed group of people across the street from the restaurant stopped their car in the road on Saturday night. Someone shot into the car from the Wendy’s parking lot, and someone else fired from the parking lot of the package store, which Secoriea’s mother attempted to pull into, according to Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms. The mom was apparently trying to turn around and drive away from the armed group when they fired.

Those who’ve been spending time at the site, which they hope to see turned into a community center in Brooks’ honor, said the shooters were not from their group.

“(We) would like to extend our deepest condolences and sympathy to the bereaved family and friends of the young 8-year old girl who was killed,” said one of the leaders of the “sleep-in” movement at the site said in a videotaped statement distributed Monday morning. “To the family, we stand with you and are here for you.”

The woman, who identifies herself as Lady A and appears to be at the Wendy’s as she speaks, said: “no one from our group was involved in any way whatsoever in the shooting. ... We have cooperated fully with local authorities as they investigate.”

Hours before Secoriea was gunned down, there had been a block party near the Wendy's, which some have taken to calling the Rayshard Brooks Peace Center. A flyer for the event advertised live music, games and food. Attendees described the event as peaceful and "beautiful" on Twitter.

Photos showed people passing out food, donned in masks to guard against the coronavirus, and a small library of books related to social justice for attendees' perusal.

This was a preview of sorts for what the activists hope the site will become. Lady A said in the video that they envision it as a center that is about “community healing, ending violence, ending police violence, job training...”

 

[lawpoke87]

Yet they put the barricades which played a major part in the shooting back up less than an hour after the girl was murdered ? Forgive me if I take that statement with a grain of salt. The explanation of “they were in our protest group but they weren’t actually “part” of our group is a weak excuse when kids die btw. Let’s see how that group reacts to this murder comparatively.

 

[GoldenCaneKC]

If they end up building a community center on the Wendy’s lot, they should name it the Secoriea Turner Peace Center instead. Seems like the death of an innocent 8-year old girl is worth commemorating and memorializing more than the death of a drunk driver who assaulted two police officers.

 

[URedskin54]

I’m not sure how any of this conversation is even relevant to the point. A group of people stopped them in the road and opened fire into a car, murdering an 8 year old child. That’s reason enough to not want to stop when people surround your car regardless of what we want to label them

 

[astonmartin708]

Yet they put the barricades which played a major part in the shooting back up less than an hour after the girl was murdered ? Forgive me if I take that statement with a grain of salt. The explanation of “they were in our protest group but they weren’t actually “part” of our group is a weak excuse when kids die btw. Let’s see how that group reacts to this murder comparatively.

Well, the police / mayor used it as an excuse to drive the groups out so I doubt they will do much of anything, at least at that site.

They did comment on it though: “(We) would like to extend our deepest condolences and sympathy to the bereaved family and friends of the young 8-year old girl who was killed,” said one of the leaders of the “sleep-in” movement at the site said in a videotaped statement distributed Monday morning. “To the family, we stand with you and are here for you.”

 

[astonmartin708]

I’m not sure how any of this conversation is even relevant to the point. A group of people stopped them in the road and opened fire into a car, murdering an 8 year old child. That’s reason enough to not want to stop when people surround your car regardless of what we want to label them

So any time someone stops your car you're allowed to run them over. Right. Got it. I'm scared of people dressing up as traffic cops and directing church traffic on a Sunday. They might actually be secret agents trying to kill me. I'll just floor it next time I see one. /sarcasm

 

[lawpoke87]

Well, the police / mayor used it as an excuse to drive the groups out so I doubt they will do much of anything, at least at that site.

They did comment on it though: “(We) would like to extend our deepest condolences and sympathy to the bereaved family and friends of the young 8-year old girl who was killed,” said one of the leaders of the “sleep-in” movement at the site said in a videotaped statement distributed Monday morning. “To the family, we stand with you and are here for you.”

Again....they put the barricade back up which led to the murder less than an hour after the girl was killed. Now that’s standing with the family. That statement was nothing but damage control. I will change my opinion in the coming weeks if the group focuses on the murder of the 8 year old girl like the have the guy who assaulted the cops

 

[astonmartin708]

Again....they put the barricade back up which led to the murder less than an hour after the girl was killed. Now that’s standing with the family. That statement was nothing but damage control. I will change my opinion in the coming weeks if the group focuses on the murder of the 8 year old girl like the have the guy who assaulted the cops

I don't necessarily disagree that it's damage control, but it's also damage control that the police are taking down memorials to both the drunk and the kid. The politicians are trying to damage control the entire situation (including the cop killing). And, again, we don't know what happened during the confrontation. What if we find out that the mother pulled a gun on somebody and that person shot back not knowing about there being a child in the car? (I'm posing a hypothetical, not actually saying that's the case)

This is the exact reason why I advocate for there being fewer guns between everyone. Cops, protesters, and normal citizens alike. A gun wasn't going to save this girl, but the lack of one might have. Same goes for the drunk. Violence and anger begets violence and anger.

 

[lawpoke87]

I don't necessarily disagree that it's damage control, but it's also damage control that the police are taking down memorials to both the drunk and the kid. The politicians are trying to damage control the entire situation (including the cop killing). And, again, we don't know what happened during the confrontation. What if we find out that the mother pulled a gun on somebody and that person shot back not knowing about there being a child in the car? (I'm posing a hypothetical, not actually saying that's the case)

This is the exact reason why I advocate for there being fewer guns between everyone. Cops, protesters, and normal citizens alike. A gun wasn't going to save this girl, but the lack of one might have. Same goes for the drunk. Violence and anger begets violence and anger.

Since there isn’t a single witness who has even mentioned the mother having a gun I certainly don’t feel comfortable trying to blame (even in a hypothetical) the grieving mother who just watched her 8 year old daughter die next to her.

 

[astonmartin708]

Since there isn’t a single witness who has even mentioned the mother having a gun I certainly don’t feel comfortable trying to blame (even in a hypothetical) the grieving mother who just watched her 8 year old daughter die next to her.

I’m not blaming anyone. That’s the point. Even if the mom had pointed a gun at someone and told them that she would shoot them, I would still ultimate fault the person that killed the child... I would just acknowledge that there were certain extenuating circumstances that complicate the situation and it might not be as cut and dry as saying protesters without provocation shot a child, which is a sentiment that’s used to fault the protestors at large when maybe they shouldn’t be.

Try to be a little bit more “12 angry men” and a little less “one angry man”.

 

[URedskin54]

So any time someone stops your car you're allowed to run them over. Right. Got it. I'm scared of people dressing up as traffic cops and directing church traffic on a Sunday. They might actually be secret agents trying to kill me. I'll just floor it next time I see one. /sarcasm

If you're not going to respond to what I actually said, then don't bother responding. This is embarrassing and it's getting tiring

 

[astonmartin708]

If you're not going to respond to what I actually said, then don't bother responding. This is embarrassing

You said you should be wary of stopping your car for people that impede your travel because you should be scared they might shoot you as evidenced by this killing in Atlanta and the shooting a few days ago in Utah.

I made a hyperbolic retort that takes your point to an extreme to prove how ridiculous it is. Being scared as to the motives of a person or persons who impede the motion of your motor vehicle is not an excuse to run them over. Just like being scared that a black man in a hoody might rob you isn't an excuse to shoot him or even to point a gun at him. There has to be a few more actions by the suspected aggressor to justify an increased display of force against them.

 

[URedskin54]

You said you should be wary of stopping your car for people that impede your travel because you should be scared they might shoot you as evidenced by this killing in Atlanta and the shooting a few days ago in Utah.

It is perfectly reasonable to say you should be wary of stopping and letting people surround your car. That does not mean you get to run over each and every person in any situation that stops your car. It does mean I think the people (who are obviously not police officers) blocking a street are ultimately at fault for creating a dangerous situation, I can empathize with the person in the car more than a group of people intentionally being a-holes to that person, and in some cases I see it as justified to drive though.

Most of your retorts are hyperbolic