I had just skimmed one article about the letter from the left. I'm not so sure the support would be quite as broad after Nov. Many of the congress people said they signed that letter before the war had started to turn so dramatically with the counter offensive. They said they would not sign that letter if offered now. I didn't know before that Jayapal brought that letter out surreptitiously to the anger of many who signed it, because their minds had already changed.I’m sure the fact we’re two weeks out from midterms had zero to do with that decision. I do look for the issue to reappear after Nov 8.
Question….would anyone on this board support a strategy of providing just enough support to keep a war going indefinitely if Americans were fighting and losing their lives ?
Ukraine….what’s our endgame here
- Thread starter lawpoke87
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We were happy to do it in Afghanistan and Iraq in the name of freedom. I think this is a more legitimate cause.
Apples to oranges. The US suffered 7k casualties over 17 years in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Ukraine has suffered well over twice that in only 6 months with no end in sight. I would also add that the largest terrorist attack on US soil was used as justification for the Afghanistan invasion. Do you believe the American people would have supported an extended conflict in either location with thousands of Americans dying each month with no commitment to defeat either the Taliban or Iraqi military? Not a chance. The only reason Americans supported either occupation was the relatively low causality numbers after the original conflict.
I personally think this is the completely wrong moment to hesitate on Ukrainian support. You support it completely through the winter, and see where you stand at the end of March. If it is still a stalemate, and has no real hope for it ending, then you make the decision to go all in, or start pulling back.
That's the point which Putin is shooting for. He hopes that lesser support combined with the winter season will take it's toll. That's the point at which Putin is hoping to gain back the advantage.
That's the point which Putin is shooting for. He hopes that lesser support combined with the winter season will take it's toll. That's the point at which Putin is hoping to gain back the advantage.
War never is easy or simple... second hand butchery is so infinitely easier and palatable
To be fair, there's a good chance that Putin uses the winter to re-up his troops and supplies in efforts of launching an offensive in the spring.... that's typically how these things go. You may get to next summer and be in a worse bargaining position than you were today.
It's just becoming a game of deal or no deal. The USA is just acting as Howie.
Yes, I'll go through my many DC contacts list, and pick one to send it to telepathically.
Definitely a possibility. He probably wanted to starve them of energy, and hit them full on during the winter. But he's not exactly in that position now. I think he slows it down in Nov-Dec, resupplies and hits them as hard as he can in early Jan. In that slow down time I think there will be several long range missiles sent tho.
If March/April arrives and this war is still in basically the same place as it currently stands then the calls will start in earnest to change the dynamic. Whether that’s increasing assets in the theater or pushing for a peace deal. No one wants a never ending war filled with killing and destruction.
I just hope the congressional change doesn't mean a severe reduction in aid. That would make it a foregone conclusion what happens in the spring. You can't string them along till now, and then cripple them with reduction in the middle of it. That makes it unfair(to them) to have given them aid in the first place.
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Agree. I do believe the Admin my have to set forth an objective and a framework to achieve the same for continued funding. We will see.
Putin likely believes he can outlast the West’s support for the Ukraine, especially from the US. Meddling in US politics has been a key Putin tool for decades, and he still has a strong grip on Russia. Freezing Ukraine this winter and a reduction of US support would change the current direction of the war if he just hangs in there and the US doesn’t.
History is on his side. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.. Which is why not committing sufficient assets to win a war never works for that side.
Ukraine risks:
Doomsday Clock moves to 90 seconds to midnight, signaling more peril than ever : NPR
Doomsday Clock moves to 90 seconds to midnight, signaling more peril than ever : NPR
It's becoming more major every day Germany makes it an issue. Pistorius is in bed with the russians. Or at least he is considering getting back into a hot tub with them, just not using their gas to run the hot tub. This BS about not allowing people you have sold tanks to, to give them to Ukraine is BS. You sold them, they are not yours to control. That issue in the sales contract is a bunch of crap. There is no issue of security involved, except the Russians capturing a tank. Ukraine is not a security risk so sale is done.
Agree with everything except being able to restrict who those tanks are sold or given. I say this because I assume the US has very similar restrictions on many of our arms we sell to our “friends”. Now they are restricting the sale for an entirely different reason than we would which is the point of your post.
Friends and security risk(which kind of go hand in hand) are decent reasons to put into the contract. Neither of those are the reason, thus they should have no right to stop anyone from giving them to Ukraine. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
I can’t imagine there isn’t language in the purchase contract which gives the selling country the absolute right to block any sale or transfer of the hardware to a third party. As you stated the question becomes what are their reasons and are they valid. The answer appears to political and no.
And this BS about wanting us to donate our Tanks is just that, BS. We have donated our share, and our tanks don't run on diesel, so they are not as advantageous as the Leopard's. Their tanks take less maintenance than ours as well. They are already training their troops on them in Poland. I think those countries who are willing to donate them, and the US approval of the plan is plenty sufficient to project a unified front, if that is really worried about.
This would not have been as big of a deal, if Germany hadn't dragged their feet. Russia just now made threats in the last few days, and Germany dragged their feet for a month or two. Russia might have made earlier threats if Germany had been more forward in their actions, but we'll never know. I think this donation of just two measly tanks by Germany is BS. But if they allow Poland and some others to donate theirs, then Germany can get their cowardly feet a little dirtier later on, and donate some more. The Germans showing cowardice hasn't happened until recently. It is disappointing.
Surprised that WATU hasn't posted this..
seymourhersh.substack.com
How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now
seymourhersh.substack.com
Surprised that WATU hasn't posted this..
How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now
Seymour Hersch has been rejected by numerous journalists for putting out conspiracy theories over the past several years. He doesn't have the respect he formerly had in the journalistic industry when he uncovered the My Lai Massacre in 1970 or uncovered the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. He used one anonymous source to set up this theory of the article.
Russian media has repeatedly used his reporting in the recent past. He has become popular with their propagandist reporting on numerous other articles he has written. (Chemical Weapons lack of use by Russia, and claiming it was Turkey.)
I'll look at this seriously when it is not just pushed by Al Jazeera and Indian & Russian press. In a short article, Reuters said this could not be corroborated at the time. Of course the current administration denies the claim.(Whether they did it or not.) Norwegian officials say this article is nonsense. I'll wait for corroboration by more respected sources.
We should have detonated explosives on most of our equipment if we were going to exit that way. Incredibly poor planning on multiple counts, by the Biden administration. They should of put it on our computers as well, if we couldn't pull it all out as well. So many people's lives were snuffed out or have been placed in mortal danger for those who have survived to the present date. Many people are still running for their lives 24/7. My Afghani neighbor's father who was a General in the Afghani Army has to move somewhere else in the hills of Afghanistan every couple of weeks/months.
Time for some tactical bombardments on Afghanistan.
I am skeptical to a point. But, i keep trying to figure out the Russian angle on blowing up their own infrastructure. By doing it, they lose all leverage on Northern Europe. No one in the world outside of SPECTRE would believe that the U.S. would perpetrate a crime like this on their allies, so there is no international favor to gain. Maybe it stirs up war fever at home. But, he isnt worried about re-election and the guys that control the military and state security would know the truth of the op and are already commited to the war.
However, it makes perfect sense for Biden to do this. It keeps fickle politcs in Europe from getting in the way of a good war. Nothing like a cold restless population clambering for heat and a chancellors job to get a pipeline re-opened. He has the American press and tech giants in his pocket and until recently he had a lapdog congress that he almost kept under control.
I would like to think that we wouldnt do this, but, the people in the White House right now think they are smarter than everyone else.
I wish there would be a negotiated settlement of some sort that would end this conflict. It's hard however to see an agreement that Russia would accept even if they were allowed to retain some Ukrainian territory. One hang up would be the vast number of war crimes committed by Russian troops which Russia would insist on being effectively pardonned for. Russia would would likely also demand that all the sanctions be removed, although that would likely be a lower priority. Anyone else have an idea for a deal both sides would accept? Hard to see any sense of equality here.
Ukraine gets: end of aggression and rebuilding help from the West. Reparations from Russia?
Russia gets: pardon for war crimes, keep some more of Ukraine, assurance that Ukraine will not join NATO, end of economic sanctions, right to participate in Olympics (or no boycott by 20 nations)
Ukraine gets: end of aggression and rebuilding help from the West. Reparations from Russia?
Russia gets: pardon for war crimes, keep some more of Ukraine, assurance that Ukraine will not join NATO, end of economic sanctions, right to participate in Olympics (or no boycott by 20 nations)
Only acceptable outcome at this point.. full withdrawal to pre Obama administration borders and reparations to the Ukrainian people. Putin is removed from power. He, his officers and the Wagner group are prosecuted by a Nuremburg style court.
We’ve become so preoccupied with Ukraine that we are sleeping on the Saudi’s ever tightening relationship with China and Russia. See BRICS. It’s a huge deal.
To give them concessions for what they've put the world, the US, & Ukraine through?
I just worry that they and China have hatched a plan for when we & Europe have expended so much of our weapons, money, etcetera, China gets involved and blitzkriegs us with an attack on Taiwan. Then a world war becomes a more distinct possibility.
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Tensions will greatly increase if Saudi joins BRICS. At that point our economic position becomes rather precarious. Too much focus on the military side imo and not enough on the economic. China is smart. They understand there are ways to become the world superpower other than via military. The US is much too focused on today and not 10-20 years down the road.
That's been made obvious(China non military routes to super power) by things like their Belt and Silk Road plan.
We had to focus on the military, but that's a reactionary policy. We should be finding proactive economic policies at the same time, and it doesn't seem like we are on the surface. I'm sure we are trying to put pressure on things like the signing of the Brics policy, but that too is reactionary.
BRICS is a big deal, but it’s not Saudi Joining that worries me (they already are in bed with Russia through OPEC +)
The following is my own opinion, not based on any intel.
I think that China is biding its time for now, watching how our weapons perform in Ukraine and waiting for US public opinion to become weary of war and our resources to become slightly stretched.
Everyone talks about Taiwan and how China wants it under its control. They do. But I doubt they go for it as their next move.
I think Guam is a more attractive target to them. Theymdon't care about it, really, and wouldn't need to control it. Just get us to cede it. Once they have us pegged as tired of supporting a war, stretched a bit on resources going into Ukraine, they can directly make a play for our territory in the Pacific, or wage a massive propaganda war in an effort to get Guam independence and remove our military bases. I think they would bet that the US population wouldn't be willing to get into WWIII to protect a little known and sparsely populated territory. And they might even be correct.
Before you dismiss it, consider that the Chinese gov't is very strategic and is more than willing to play a very long game. A ten year PR campaign is nothing to them.
If we were to eventually cede Guam, they could make a play for Taiwan afterwards and it would be that much harder for us to stage a significant defense.
I think the strongest "message" we could send to China right now would actually be to make Guam and/or the Marianas Islands the 51st state. They would think twice about attacking a US state, and even if I am totally wrong on their intentions, it still sends them a very strong message that we intend to protect our interests in West Pacific vigorously.
But our politicians have recently been too obsessed with "winning" over the other party to think strategically. We are due for a wakeup call, and I think there are some encouraging signs that elected officials of both parties are beginning to unite on issues related to China. Here's hoping, because I believe the hour is later than we think.
Again, my opinions.
Any attack on an U.S. territory by China would surely be viewed as an act of war. I have my doubts China can project sufficient naval and air power to take Guam. That said, I did hear an ex general last week talking about the likelihood of a war with China in the next 5 years. He didn’t sound very positive. Maybe it’s time we pivot a bit from Russia being our primary military threat to China. Foreign policy needs an overhaul imo.
I've heard similar things from Air Force veterans in the arena.
I think that an attack on a US territory could unite us. The Japanese tried the same thing in Hawaii 1941, thinking they could bully us into trading with them again. Big backfire. China could be in for a surprise if they tried.
But a little known and cared about territory might be different. I understand the strategic importance of it, but does your average American even know what Guam is? Much less be willing to engage China over it?
That's why I think it would be a really smart play to make it a state right now.
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