Ukraine….what’s our endgame here
- Thread starter lawpoke87
- Start date
So the question is... how far do we go in backing Ukraine once Russia annexes these oblasts like they did the Crimea?
My gut says Biden does his best Reverend Jim Ignatowski imitation and says " So.. Vlad, you say these lands are yours?.. well Okey Doke!!"
I think the West and NATO are looking for a way out and this will give it to them..
Western Europe is ready to go back to cheap energy and US defense subsidies..
Bidens new platform can be "he kept us out of war"
I know I’m a vocal proponent of making your constitution evolve with society, but Christ, what is theirs’ written on? Toilet Paper?
We didn’t even alter our constitution during two World Wars.
Putin apparently still has public support in Russia. The Ukraine's recent advances may not be widely known. He's likely living in a bit of bubble while creating a bubble for the Russian public.
time.com
Six Months On, Most Russians Still Back the War in Ukraine
Polls suggest that more than three-quarters of Russians continue to back Putin's war efforts.
Right before that the republicans put possible support for 12B in aid for Ukraine on the table. Everyone is going to have to back down not just Biden.
Biden doesn’t need a single Pub to agree to anything regarding a cease fire and agreement to allow Putin to keep those oblasts.
Who knows what would work now. Ukraine would be unlikely to offer the same terms as they supposedly offered before. the invasion. Putin has a "saving face" problem. But your idea makes sense to those of us without skin in the game.
Putin rejected a peace deal as his Ukraine invasion began, report says, paving the way for Russia's military humiliation
Putin refused an early peace deal that would have kept Ukraine out of NATO, per Reuters. But he refused it, miring his army into an extended conflict.
I doubt that public support lasts much longer now that he has fully mobilized for war. Allegedly, ballerinas are being graffittied all around Moscow. The old Soviet propaganda channels had a tendency to show Swan Lake on a loop whenever there was a high ranking death or other event that forced them to do a media blackout while they constructed a narrative. It last happened in 1991 when there was an attempted coup against Gorbachev. It had previously happened when Brezhnev died while there was no clear successor, and on a couple of other similar occasions. The public subtly showing support for a modern "Swan Lake" moment is the interpretation.Putin apparently still has public support in Russia. The Ukraine's recent advances may not be widely known. He's likely living in a bit of bubble while creating a bubble for the Russian public.
Six Months On, Most Russians Still Back the War in Ukraine
Polls suggest that more than three-quarters of Russians continue to back Putin's war efforts.
Take any news from inside Russia with a grain of salt, but I can't imagine the public being supportive of martial law and conscription for a non-defensive war for very long.
I was also with lawpoke early on. I thought a massive show of force before the invasion might have dissuaded him from invading. It might have avoided all this, but give how determined we see he is in the face of adversity, maybe not.
However, I will continue to support our efforts to prop up the Ukrainian military. We have some long term support contracts drawn up now. Drones for delivery with circa 3 year delivery estimates. Money earmarked for two years from now, etc. Some portions of the aid packages are not immediate, but multi-year.
Allowing Russia to annex any portion of Ukraine will just invite him to do it again, and again, and again. As he has already shown in Crimea, Donbas, Georgia, Checnya, Ossetia... He will push the envelope until the West finally forces him to stop. Caving only kicks the can down the road and makes that eventual confrontation higher stakes when NATO is directly involved. If we cave, he will eventually come back and demand Kyiv. Then he will want the Baltics, or a piece of Poland. It might seem ridiculous, but an aggressive invasion of Ukraine seemed ridiculous only a year ago. He's been doing this for 20 years now, it is a pretty well established pattern with a clear goal towards reassembling the Russian Empire.
One of the few times I've seen almost everybody agree on something on here.(Your post.) United we stand.
I personally don't like seeing Ukraine getting destroyed, because it would be an escalation to attack Russia. It's not really fair to Ukraine to be encapsulated into only attacking Russians on Ukrainian land. They've kept themselves to attacking only military bases with weapons and oil in Russia, and having to deny most of that. Being defensive only, is not a route to winning the war.
There is already incredible damage to Ukrainian cities, and virtually none to Russian cities.
This is a point very few are discussing. Even if Ukraine were to drive Russia out of the currently occupied territory, they have still suffered billions of dollars in damage to their cities. Damage which will take years to recover. Should Russia withdraw back Into its prior borders there will be many who proclaim a Ukrainian victory. I disagree with such assessment for the reasons given by Gmoney.
My current uneducated opinion: Putin wants the war to end but also needs to “annex” those eastern oblasts into Russia. He knows the only way Ukraine won’t tell him to pound sand is if the Russians are on the verge of a massive military victory. I expect one last push to the west by Putin toward Kiev. Hoping to place Ukraine in a position where they are willing to give up that eastern territory in order to save the rest of the country. I don’t believe Putin has the military power to accomplish such a move but I do believe that is his plan.
New Gallup polling on the support for Ukraine in the US.
news.gallup.com
Republicans are significantly more likely to want Ukraine to Capitulate.
Why am I not surprised?
Americans Back Ukrainian Goal of Reclaiming Territory
A majority of Americans support Ukraine in reclaiming lost territory, even if it means a prolonged conflict. Democrats are the most ardent in backing Ukraine.
news.gallup.com
Republicans are significantly more likely to want Ukraine to Capitulate.
Why am I not surprised?
A couple of things. It seems Russian minorities might be taking this mobilization the way they were expected.
A Russian school was shot up by a "former pupil with a Nazi swastika on his shirt". I usually don't like tinfoil hat opinions, but with the FSB and its Putin-era history of false flags to justify military action you have to wonder if the Russian government just sacrificed kids to offset the protests. It happened at Izhevsk, which is home of Kalashnikov Concern HQ. A lot of Russians military hardware from AK rifles to drones comes from that town.
A Russian school was shot up by a "former pupil with a Nazi swastika on his shirt". I usually don't like tinfoil hat opinions, but with the FSB and its Putin-era history of false flags to justify military action you have to wonder if the Russian government just sacrificed kids to offset the protests. It happened at Izhevsk, which is home of Kalashnikov Concern HQ. A lot of Russians military hardware from AK rifles to drones comes from that town.
Last edited:
I figure we will have a false flag op here a couple of weeks before the election...
Hmmm.. Nordstream pipeline(s) destroyed.... was it Putin?.. or Biden?
They call me mellow Q.(drawn out to two syllables)
I would like to think it was intended as a joke, but I believe it was a serious question.
Too bad Sean Hannity didn't say anything along those lines, the accusation would have been so much more believable with him over Carlson.
Doesn't change Biden's words.. original clip was ABC news... you're too hung up on the messenger..
I'm too hung up on that being out of character for Biden, and it being absolutely in character for Putin.(Taking huge risk for Biden & the US, which Biden would not do.)
Say hi to Q for me.
If Russia invades Ukraine, there will be no Nord Stream 2, Biden says
U.S. President Joe Biden on Monday warned that if Russia invades Ukraine, there would be no Nord Stream 2, but did not specify how he would go about ensuring the controversial pipeline would not be used.
www.reuters.com
Can we do individual signatures for different quotes. Cuz crying laughing is obviously good for all Noble's quotes of me.(and at this point, me of him)
Biden is the evil boogeyman, the guy who would pull any stunt no matter the risk, as far as Noble is concerned.
Say hi to Q.
Biden is the evil boogeyman, the guy who would pull any stunt no matter the risk, as far as Noble is concerned.
Say hi to Q.
But not incapacitated enough to give this order.
He is your boogeyman who would do anything and everything at risk to this country.
That statement was meant as words in your mouth, not mine. But you diggin know that.
Last edited:
Maybe the Big Guy is so deluded that he thinks he really is Jack Ryan... or Peter Henderson..
Joe Biden used alias of KGB spy from Tom Clancy novels, emails from Hunter’s laptop show
Joe Biden wrote to his son Hunter and others close to him using the pseudonym “Peter Henderson,” a fictional Soviet Union-era spy in several Tom Clancy novels who infiltrated the US government, ema…
nypost.com
Russia’s goal in running fake plebiscites in captured Ukraine territory is apparently to show progress to Russians and to claim the Ukraine is now attacking Russian soil. Given Putin’s recent nuke threats about attacking Russia directly, it’s an interesting tactic, even if the rest of the world doesn’t recognize the results.New Gallup polling on the support for Ukraine in the US.
Americans Back Ukrainian Goal of Reclaiming Territory
A majority of Americans support Ukraine in reclaiming lost territory, even if it means a prolonged conflict. Democrats are the most ardent in backing Ukraine.
Republicans are significantly more likely to want Ukraine to Capitulate.
Putin expected to seize parts of Ukraine as 'sham' referendums end today
Russian-led referendums in eastern and southern Ukraine are set to wrap Tuesday with results expected to claim support for Russian annexation.
Last edited:
I'm surprised that Putin has 'allowed' them to attack and make significant advances on 'Russian Land' since his 'acquisition' of said land. I thought that's what all the threats were over. Is he waiting on the military to get resupplied with troops? Waiting on the troop resupply to 'allow' him to retake land after the threat has been enacted? That will be a disaster waiting to happen.(for him) Or is he waiting for his sub that 'disappeared' to get in the right position to fire short range nukes?
He waits much longer and most of the land acquisition he has will be under attack or retaken by Ukraine.
He waits much longer and most of the land acquisition he has will be under attack or retaken by Ukraine.
Last edited:
Similar threads
