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lawpoke87

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+he is a jerk who treats his employees like trash.

I never used Twitter much anyway. Totally disgusted by how he treats people.

Business or politics what I am interested in is character. Philosophy comes after character IMO. Now I understand who Musk is and would not touch him or his companies with a ten foot pole.
To leave Twitter because of the way Elon treats people but remain silent while Twitter worked alongside the Federal Government to silence critics an interesting philosophical decision.

Ironically, we’re having this discussion the same day pro Iranian government individuals are attempting to prevent protestors at the World Cup from speaking out against policies of the current regime.
 
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aTUfan

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la la land
What about when someone (like you) is unwilling to debate with facts and instead just repeats lies with no remorse? What about when people (like you) are unable to distinguish facts from lies that other people, who even when confronted, refuse to stop lying?

today you censor me because we dont agree. Tomorrow someone up the food chain can censor you .

who gets to choose?


oh and i do present facts; you just choose to ignore them or dont like the result.
 

drboobay

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To leave Twitter because of the way Elon treats people but remain silent while Twitter worked alongside the Federal Government to silence critics an interesting philosophical decision.

Ironically, we’re having this discussion the same day pro Iranian government individuals are attempting to prevent protestors at the World Cup from speaking out against policies of the current regime.
I have not even had the Twitter app installed for years. I have a handle and will occasionally read a tweet on the web about TU.

So it's not that much about Twitter for me. It is about the arrogance and poor leadership of Musk. He deserves a big failure.
 

astonmartin708

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So you have more of a problem with allowing all speech than a company working with the federal government to censor and ban speech critical of said government. Supporting such “moderation” is pure ignorance when viewed in an historical perspective. I understand you have political bias here but surely you can still acknowledge this was outrageous behavior by these two parties.
The company wasn't taking orders from the federal government. A government employee pointed out that a community member had violated existing community guidelines.

Supporting moderation is non ignorance it's common sense. Now, if the government told someone they couldn't publish or distribute their own content on their own platform then I would be upset.
 
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astonmartin708

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BTW... this sort of event which happened 5 days ago in Seattle is what I'm talking about... your freedom of speech should only be allowed to go so far. And it should not extend where people are forced to hear your inane insanity.



"You ever heard of the first amendment?"
 

cmullinsTU

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BTW... this sort of event which happened 5 days ago in Seattle is what I'm talking about... your freedom of speech should only be allowed to go so far. And it should not extend where people are forced to hear your inane insanity.




"You ever heard of the first amendment?"
It is not my intent to be dense. What does the man in Seattle, who has rightfully been arrested, have to do with the rest of the conversation here? It is a legitimate question.

He mentions the 1st amendment, but that doesn't apply once you start threatening others.

FWIW I agree Twitter needs moderation if for nothing else, to clean up the large numbers of bots on the platform. I'm not an Elon fan, he says a lot of really really dumb things, and he constantly overpromises and underdelivers.
 

lawpoke87

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The company wasn't taking orders from the federal government. A government employee pointed out that a community member had violated existing community guidelines.

Supporting moderation is non ignorance it's common sense. Now, if the government told someone they couldn't publish or distribute their own content on their own platform then I would be upset.
Nonsense. The speech was posted and Twitter had zero issues with it. Only when the White House pressured Twitter to remove said speech and ban the poster was it done. Which is why the White House has gone to court to fight the release of the communications (emails) with Twitter. I do love the subject “community standards” as a cover for censorship. We’ve seen oppressive regimes use similar language throughout history. Disturbing we see Americans support such actions. Covid origination, Hunter’s laptop….community standards lol.
 

lawpoke87

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BTW... this sort of event which happened 5 days ago in Seattle is what I'm talking about... your freedom of speech should only be allowed to go so far. And it should not extend where people are forced to hear your inane insanity.




"You ever heard of the first amendment?"
A lunatic threatening people in an airport. Journalist and scientist speaking on government policies and being silenced.

First thing which came to mind in reading your post was someone like Stalin using a similar example as justification for silencing his critics.
 
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astonmartin708

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A lunatic threatening people in an airport. Journalist and scientist speaking on government policies and being silenced.

First thing which came to mind in reading your post was someone like Stalin using a similar example as justification for silencing his critics.
Lol.... I think that's tantamount to a Hitler argument.
 

astonmartin708

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Nonsense. The speech was posted and Twitter had zero issues with it. Only when the White House pressured Twitter to remove said speech and ban the poster was it done. Which is why the White House has gone to court to fight the release of the communications (emails) with Twitter. I do love the subject “community standards” as a cover for censorship. We’ve seen oppressive regimes use similar language throughout history. Disturbing we see Americans support such actions. Covid origination, Hunter’s laptop….community standards lol.
Fundamentally disagree with this entire thing.
 

lawpoke87

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Lol.... I think that's tantamount to a Hitler argument.
Just trying to maintain my perfect record of never using a Hitler reference on this board..:.even if it’s warranted :) Never thought I would see the day when the left is justifying the silencing of scientist and journalist with a lunatic threatening people in an airport but sadly here we are. Truly disheartening.
 
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URedskin54

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I was ok with Twitter allowing the Ayatollah to routinely advocate for the murder of Jews and the CCP to spread disinfo about their concentration camps, but Elon Musk doing a re-org of an unprofitable business and allowing screamingpatriot0394837 back on the platform was just too much
 
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lawpoke87

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Fundamentally disagree with this entire thing.
Same here. Looking forward to revisiting this topic when the White House is forced to release those emails (hopefully) where they pressured Twitter and more testimony is presented. This is one of the more egregious actions we’ve seen the federal government take in our lifetime. The same needs to be fully brought to light. Hopefully the Biden admin will cooperate.
 

drboobay

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I was ok with Twitter allowing the Ayatollah to routinely advocate for the murder of Jews and the CCP to spread disinfo about their concentration camps, but Elon Musk doing a re-org of an unprofitable business and allowing screamingpatriot0394837 back on the platform was just too much
Twitter has always been pointless IMO.

He needs to be humbled. It is not really about layoffs but his lack of concern and respect.
 
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URedskin54

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Twitter has always been pointless IMO.

He needs to be humbled. It is not really about layoffs but his lack of concern and respect.

Everyone at Twitter was given the very generous offer of 3 months severance, which many of them took voluntarily. If my company decides to do layoffs please opt me in for that kind of disrespect.

The entire “controversy” seems contrived. From Musk’s obnoxious trolling, to every shrieking journalist. Just seems like mutually beneficially click seeking behavior across the board.
 
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lawpoke87

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Other than the political side, I’m really not sure why many are making a big deal over someone who acquired a company placing his own leadership team in place. I certainly would do the same. People who share my management style and vision. Especially considering the old executive team’s views are very much different than mine. Makes zero sense to retain them.
 

drboobay

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Everyone at Twitter was given the very generous offer of 3 months severance, which many of them took voluntarily. If my company decides to do layoffs please opt me in for that kind of disrespect.

The entire “controversy” seems contrived. From Musk’s obnoxious trolling, to every shrieking journalist. Just seems like mutually beneficially click seeking behavior across the board.
He told people to give up their lives to Twitter/him or take 3 months severance. What an ahole.
 

URedskin54

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He told people to give up their lives to Twitter/him or take 3 months severance. What an ahole.


These are tech employees. They’re basically just being asked to go into the office and work a full work day.
 
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cmullinsTU

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Other than the political side, I’m really not sure why many are making a big deal over someone who acquired a company placing his own leadership team in place. I certainly would do the same. People who share my management style and vision. Especially considering the old executive team’s views are very much different than mine. Makes zero sense to retain them.
And Twitter founder and ex-CEO, Jack Dorsey, told Musk he should do that if he actually bought the company. Jack sits on the board still and would have pretty good insight into the ELT and admitted to Musk he effed up in not focusing on making a profitable organization.
 

astonmartin708

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I was ok with Twitter allowing the Ayatollah to routinely advocate for the murder of Jews and the CCP to spread disinfo about their concentration camps, but Elon Musk doing a re-org of an unprofitable business and allowing screamingpatriot0394837 back on the platform was just too much
No. I was not. I expect them to disallow that. The real problem is that there were so many users of twitter that it was hard to catch each tweet that violated standards, especially when tweets were made in other languages.
 
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astonmartin708

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Everyone at Twitter was given the very generous offer of 3 months severance, which many of them took voluntarily. If my company decides to do layoffs please opt me in for that kind of disrespect.

The entire “controversy” seems contrived. From Musk’s obnoxious trolling, to every shrieking journalist. Just seems like mutually beneficially click seeking behavior across the board.
Saying that everyone left voluntarily is disingenuous. 3 Months is the minimum Twitter needed to pay if they ever hoped to hire anyone in the tech industry again lol.
 

Gmoney4WW

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70% of twitter employees work 8-10 hours per day. So he's expecting salaried employees to work 10-12 hours? I'm thinking he's expecting 12 hours per day. That doesn't leave much time for your family.
 

URedskin54

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70% of twitter employees work 8-10 hours per day. So he's expecting salaried employees to work 10-12 hours? I'm thinking he's expecting 12 hours per day. That doesn't leave much time for your family.

Roughly 0% of Twitter employees put in 8 hours of actual work per day, especially since they’ve been remote. If you work a full work week in this industry you’re an over achiever
 

URedskin54

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Bull Crap.

I’m sorry that fact hurt your feelings.

It’s a nice industry to work in. Putting in a real 40 hour work week and staying after 5 now and then actually makes you stand out. Not many people get that kind of situation and I’m thankful.
 

astonmartin708

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I’m sorry that fact hurt your feelings.

It’s a nice industry to work in. Putting in a real 40 hour work week and staying after 5 now and then actually makes you stand out. Not many people get that kind of situation and I’m thankful.
The problem is just that it's fundamentally not true. People like to laugh about it, and the people in the industry certainly aren't doing back breaking labor 40 hours a week like they would be working a factory line... but they ARE doing work.... at least to the same extent a lawyer does "40 hours of work" a week.
 

lawpoke87

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The problem is just that it's fundamentally not true. People like to laugh about it, and the people in the industry certainly aren't doing back breaking labor 40 hours a week like they would be working a factory line... but they ARE doing work.... at least to the same extent a lawyer does "40 hours of work" a week.
Hey :). Very few lawyers who work for larger firms work 40 hour weeks btw. It’s definitely a grind.
 

astonmartin708

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Hey :). Very few lawyers who work for larger firms work 40 hour weeks btw. It’s definitely a grind.
I know that many lawyers work diligently, especially earlier in their careers where they are forced to do more legwork.

Working in tech can be a grind too.... though the grindier places tend to be start ups or implementation groups. Whenever you're trying to roll out new features or systems to a deadline you certainly work your butt off. Ticket management, bug fixing, model retraining, data engineering etc... it's constant work.
 

URedskin54

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The problem is just that it's fundamentally not true. People like to laugh about it, and the people in the industry certainly aren't doing back breaking labor 40 hours a week like they would be working a factory line... but they ARE doing work.... at least to the same extent a lawyer does "40 hours of work" a week.

Oh it absolutely is true. I may put in a 70-80 hour week for an implementation go-live or some dev work that has to be done last minute but besides that you work as many hours as you want to (or don’t want to) work, and unlimited PTO is standard. Anyone in tech that tries to convince you it’s hard is almost invariably very lazy. My lawyer wife works long hard hours. Almost no one in Austin does. When we were still mostly office based I think people at my company spent more time playing ping pong than anything else. Show up at 9, do some work, play some ping pong, take an hour lunch, play some more ping pong, do some work, leave at 4. Pretty typical
 
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astonmartin708

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Oh it absolutely is true. I may put in a 70-80 hour week for an implementation go-live or some dev work that has to be done last minute but besides that you work as many hours as you want to (or don’t want to) work, and unlimited PTO is standard. Anyone in tech that tries to convince you it’s hard is almost invariably very lazy. My lawyer wife works long hard hours. Almost no one in Austin does. When we were still mostly office based I think people at my company spent more time playing ping pong than anything else
I’m glad that the team that I work with doesn’t work at your company then lol.

One thing I do think is overlooked is that, many times in various kinds of IT / Dev projects the code that IS NOT written is more more important that the code that is. Where I see most of the time wasted by the developers under me is when they take bad or erroneous approaches to problems. If you’re playing ping pong but youre discussing a complex coding issue while you’re doing it, then I say you’re still doing work. (I suppose I’m showing my age in that stance).

Time spent staring at a screen -office space style- is not as valuable as time spent discovering the most elegant / appropriate solution.

I’m a huge believer in work smarter not harder. Dont present me a thousand lines of code that do not give me a useable outcome and tell me that you worked harder than the guy who figured out how to give me a useable outcome in 10 lines of code after he researched and pondered on the best solution for a day. I think there are very many poor developers / professionals who think that the amount of work they present shows that they really care about the problem, when in reality it just shows me that they’re not smart enough to get to a better solution.
 
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drboobay

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These are tech employees. They’re basically just being asked to go into the office and work a full work day.
Nope.

If you are a good leader you build a culture where people WANT to put passion and energy into their work.

You don't need to threaten people (except for the few discontents who inevitably sift through now and again).

It is also a stupid approach in today's labor market.

Not saying layoffs were a bad idea. The cavalier approach of his is the bad idea.
 

aTUfan

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la la land
Chinese government appears to working around the clock to censor social media posts about the ongoing protests which violate their definition of community standards.

reminds me of the covid shut down here directed by our gov. masks, shots, social distance, business closed, not allowed to oppose,
 

drboobay

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reminds me of the covid shut down here directed by our gov. masks, shots, social distance, business closed, not allowed to oppose,
It is our initial response x 1000 on massive, multi-year steroids.
 

URedskin54

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Nope.

If you are a good leader you build a culture where people WANT to put passion and energy into their work.

You don't need to threaten people (except for the few discontents who inevitably sift through now and again).

It is also a stupid approach in today's labor market.

Not saying layoffs were a bad idea. The cavalier approach of his is the bad idea.

Just all seems a bit overblown in my opinion, and the degree to which the people reporting on tech companies know virtually nothing about the subject they report on makes me pretty skeptical of the reporting. We’ll see I suppose. I would actually prefer Twitter fail. It and Facebook in its current form are responsible for so many societal and political problems we have.
 

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