The OOC game tonight is going to be another like Pine Bluff. We're going to score...a lot. A&M Commerce is still in their probationary jump to D1 period.
TU Women's Soccer Fall 2023
- Thread starter TU_BLA
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The game tonight should be much more competitive. The Commerce roster is filled with. a bunch of Dallas area ECRL girls with a few lower level NL girls mixed in. They also have an NL player (Ava Watts) who played at TSC. TU will have a significant talent edge but it won’t be Ark PB.
Yeah, 2-1 final for TU. I thought it was going to be a replay of the Pine Bluff game when TU scored a minute and a half into the game. TU dominated possession and chances really but then they'd lose a winger or take a chance defensively and miss and then they'd have to scramble around. A&M-Commerce wasn't very fast and they struggled to keep the ball but TU's backline just loses focus too much.
We’re better than last year imo. Roster has more talent. The OSU transfer is the real deal. We won’t win the conference thanks to Memphis but a top 1/3 finish in conference is realistic.
That's where we were last year...made it to the conference tournament. I'm not sure this squad has enough ball control to repeat last year's finish though. My best analogy is the basketball team losing the rebounding battle by 20+ but the game looks close because the other side can't hit the water from the boat.
Women are at Rice right now. So far I haven't seen TU leave their half of the field with possession. The other thing is Rice's field is terrible. WSA's River Parks fields would be comparable. BA's Indian Springs natural grass fields are better and TU's practice field makes this look like an unkempt city park, sort of like the West Bank complex.
The women fall 1-0 to Rice in the league opener. Rice scored on a really pretty cross to the head of a Rice player. TU had a few chances but nothing I would consider extremely dangerous.
Question for our resident goalie expert TU_BLA: There were multiple times during this game where the proper play for the TU back line is to play the ball back to the keeper and then reset and play out of the back. Didn’t see that occur a single time. We routinely would kick the ball out of bounds conceding possession. Why?
Question for our resident goalie expert TU_BLA: There were multiple times during this game where the proper play for the TU back line is to play the ball back to the keeper and then reset and play out of the back. Didn’t see that occur a single time. We routinely would kick the ball out of bounds conceding possession. Why?
It's more to do with the defense being terrible at controlling the ball and playing out of the back. Both the men's and women's teams have this bad habit of not passing with any pace. All the passes are too soft IMO and it invites problems. The men will play out of the back even if they are being hard pressed and it causes problems. The women don't. I have not seen it in any of the games I've watched the last two seasons. Everything is a clearance up over the top, even if no one is there. And I can't speak to the ability of the GK to play that style simply because I haven't seen it. But the primary reason is you don't trust your team to play out of the back. And we've seen that this team is not an accurate passing team either. That's a big problem if you're trying to play out of the back using the goalkeeper as the trigger. So it might not actually be the GKs problem at all.
Thanks for the response. My daughter’s team spends at minimum 2-3 hours per week practicing playing it out of the back and through the midfield. We probably play it back to the keeper no less than 5-8 times a game. Sometimes a lot more if the opponent is playing direct soccer. Just found it odd a D1 college team wasn’t doing this.
When my son played for Donovan Ricketts (U12, TSC), they would spend 30-40 minutes every practice just passing and Donovan always preached "firm passes! I need firm passes!". Then they'd spend another 45 minutes playing out of the back. They'd spend time doing it with no pressure on them so the backline, 6, and the GK got used to moving off the ball into proper spaces to be an outlet while they tried to find a crack through the front line who could just move side to side. Then he'd release the forwards to press. I'm pretty sure the boys were bored out of their minds doing the same simple things over and over at practice but I will tell you that by the end of the year, that team could play out of the back without thinking about it. People asked me how it was having an MLS keeper for a coach for my young GK and honestly, Donovan NEVER worked with him on GK technique in team practices...the only thing he worked with him on from a GK'ing perspective was "What do you see?" in terms of seeing how the defense was set up and how to break it down and I'm 100% convinced that is why my son is able to see and read the field like he's a coach.
Donovan often doubted his ability to teach and relate to young kids as a coach because, as he put it, I've never done it before and I've never done it from that young an age, he'd been around upper level national and pro clubs the majority of his life. What I learned was, teach kids the same concepts you would teach adults. They're young and sponges and absorb everything. And lo and behold, if you teach the right things and develop players, the winning takes care of itself.
I don't know much about soccer but I read an article that said that the most important differentiator of great vs not great goalies is their ability to set up their team to score, not their ability to stop goals. I recall it argued there are limited shots on goal and the majority of variability on whether a shot goes in is beyond the control of the goalie regardless of skill, so great goalies only make a difference of a few goals a year from stopping skill. But effectively setting up the offense produces much more increase in goals, so even a middling stopping goalie who sets up the offense well produces a net goal benefit for their team relative to a great stopping goalie who doesn't set up the offense well. Thoughts? I have no ability to evaluate the argument but generally think more scoring in soccer would be better so I liked the thought.
I think goalies being able to set up an offense is more of a factor in the men’s game than the women’s at the college level and below….at least from my observations. BLA is the resident goalie expert so I will defer to him. However, my observations from girls soccer is that goalies will primarily distribute the ball to the CBs and OBs with an occasionally pass to the 6 mixed in. Teams then rely on those back 5 find the space and play into the midfield. My daughter’s team practices switching the field in the back at almost every practice in order to open up space. If you have a goalie who’s good with her feet you can use her in those switches as well.
The girls lost 2-1 to OU in a fairly competitive game (especially the first half). We wore down in the second half as playing 7 or your 10 field players 90 minutes will tend to do. OU is much better. Outshot us 18-4 but the girls did show grit. We have some talent….especially up top. I still think we can make a run in conference.
She really enjoyed it. We walked around campus a bit after the game. The grounds really look good at night with everything lit up. Several of the parents of TU current players recognized her and stopped and talked to her. Left her with a really positive vibe.
See Lawpoke's response. Upper level GKs must be a 5th backline player to play through and relieve pressure in order to keep possession and help a team build out of the back. The best GKs can also see the vulnerabilities in the oppositions formation and figure out what they're trying to do so they can help their team defeat that. My son is actually excellent at that stuff. Had he been 6'1 instead of 5'11 and he's playing in college somewhere. The days of playing the pure shot stopper are done. If you can't play with the ball at your feet, you're not going very far.
If you want to see the difference go back and watch how Manuel Neuer was used at Bayern as well as on the German national team. Also, you can tell whether or not a GK is going to be good or not by 2 things: 1) Do they take their own goal kicks? If so move to question 2, if they don't you know the team struggles to play out of the back, and 2) Do the defenders play the ball back to the GK regularly when they are under pressure? This says the team values possession and they are confident in being able to keep it and work the ball out of the back with the GK as the trigger. A good example of this is TUs men's team with Alex Lopez in goal. Opponents will not press him when he has the ball because it's giving up a defender and TU can move the ball upfield quickly. The women's team does not do this. And rarely do you see the men's team punt the ball long distance or just hit long goal kicks.
The US is slightly behind in developing their GKs to play this way as usually the shot stopping is the value coaches look for at the youth levels here. Tim Howard wasn't particularly great with his feet but he was a superb shot stopper. Brad Guzan wasn't as good of a shot stopper but he had much better feet and distribution than Howard did. Right now the USMNT lacks GKs with even serviceable feet (IMO) for that level. It's a huge deficiency and problem. Whoever played GK vs Canada is probably the best with his feet in comparison to the others who have been getting call ups (Turner, Horvath, Steffen, Johnson).
Women were playing UNT last evening and were trailing 2-0 with 10 minutes left in the 1st half when the game was suspended due to the lightning in the area. It doesn't look like they were able to resume and complete the game last evening. Looks like it is set to resume at 11am today. That has got to be brutal on UNT as I am sure they were scheduled to go back to Denton last night after the game.
That said, if the new AD or any of his underlings are monitoring the board...it's time to move on from Coach Rhein. This team is really not competitive although some of their scores say they are but beating up on teams that might lose to some of the better D2 and D3 teams in the country is not an indication the team is any good. They're scoring goals somehow while being outshot almost 3.5:1 in most games and being on the short side of possession at 60:40 (which is a generous estimate). And they're not just being dominated by P4s, they're being dominated by the likes of MoState, UNT, and Rice. This, to me, is unacceptable.
The men's side is also struggling but Tom gets 2-3 years to right the ship and figure out the NIL waters because he's been successful for 30+ years in this job and has developed one of the most respected programs in the nation.
That said, if the new AD or any of his underlings are monitoring the board...it's time to move on from Coach Rhein. This team is really not competitive although some of their scores say they are but beating up on teams that might lose to some of the better D2 and D3 teams in the country is not an indication the team is any good. They're scoring goals somehow while being outshot almost 3.5:1 in most games and being on the short side of possession at 60:40 (which is a generous estimate). And they're not just being dominated by P4s, they're being dominated by the likes of MoState, UNT, and Rice. This, to me, is unacceptable.
The men's side is also struggling but Tom gets 2-3 years to right the ship and figure out the NIL waters because he's been successful for 30+ years in this job and has developed one of the most respected programs in the nation.
Shots were 11-1 in favor of UNT when the game was suspended last night. Just a crazy stat line to have against UNT.
I didn't get to watch it. I put it on ESPN+ just as they were suspending the game and saw the 2-0 score line and decided to not bother with it. Shot lines and score lines like that are a surefire indication your team is using U12 tactics against college level teams. You're trying to play over the top exclusively and trying to connect with a couple of forwards who are very good and fast, which is also an indication that the coach has no idea how to coach possession and keeping the ball or is not recruiting to a high enough level where he's getting players that can play a possession based game and have the technical skill to do so.
Again, if the AD or any of his underlings are on here...it's time to move on. This coach is not up to coaching a college D1 team and a style indicative of that. I mean from what I have seen so far, they don't even try to keep the ball and work it out from the back or MF, the first ball is a long clearance ball EVERY TIME...and frequently it's to no one in particular.
By contrast, I caught a little bit of the South Carolina @ UGA game last evening. Georgia, extremely heavy in possession and shots but couldn't break through until much later. So. Carolina had a 2-0 lead and the 2nd goal was so quick on a counter attack and the build was freaking flawless, ball moved form the 6 to the outside back to the middle back to the outside on the opposite side and then a quick slot into the middle. Initial shot got blocked but came to a USc player who took 1 touch and freaking hammered home an outside of the right foot shot that curled in far post. It was one of those team goals and shots that make people go WHOA!!! Not saying we should be as good as SEC teams, but we should be able to actually be competitive with every AAC team.
3-1 final. We were outshot 21-5 by UNT. We should never be outshot 21-5 by North Texas. We make a minimal effort to play out of the back. As you said I not sure if it’s lack of talent or lack of coaching. Watching the goalie blindly kick the ball down the middle of the field to the opponent is beyond frustrating. Hell…my daughter’s coach would be screaming the first time that occurred due to losing possession. We generally play two seniors and two freshmen in the back. None of them were elite recruits coming out of high school. I assume our issues are a combination of lack of high level talent and high level coaching. I don’t see recruiting getting better without a change in attitude and effort on behalf of the staff.
I'm not looking at record. As someone who understands soccer and has a marginal ability to judge soccer talent based on they way the game should be played, Jim's ability to coach and develop talent may be suited for U11-U14 girls but not any higher than that. Combine that with a glaring inability to recruit for this level and I still think TU needs to go in a different direction.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just skeptical TU will put for the effort to replace a coach who went .500 in league in a non revenue sport. I would be happy to give them the names of a couple of Dallas based ECNL coaches if they decide to make a change
.Those coaches probably make more than TU is paying……I don’t disagree with any of that. I’m just skeptical TU will put for the effort to replace a coach who went .500 in league in a non revenue sport. I would be happy to give them the names of a couple of Dallas based ECNL coaches if they decide to make a change
Would be my guess as well. Assume a top ECNL Coach / Director of a large club is making close to $150k per year when per diems and bonuses are added in
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We can do better than this high school.
As I pointed out here before, his best finishes were the semis once at Bixby and a couple of quarterfinals. That is not impressive. Sorry. With the talent that is there, any person could do that.
He needs to be done away with. This is just John Philips for the soccer program.
Based on how women’s soccer has performed the last several years, I’m surprised there’s a buyout. Poor move on TU’s part imo
Question: Why doesn’t Jim attend ECNL national events? I’m talking about showcases and nationals? Why do we only send one coach and sometimes none? I don’t know of another program whose head coach isn’t attending these events. We have almost no presence. Which seems to be a reflection to our overall approach to recruiting.
I remember the National DA event in Denver. Every D1 school had its entire squad there. I don't understand why every national ECNL event would be anything other than that. It is just too easy. Why do we make this hard?
I feel like we've spent 20 years hearing different arguments that always end up at this point. The reason du jour changes but the conclusion never seems to.
I have no idea. I can tell you that other people would suggest that other coaches focus solely on kids that pay them to attend their ID camp and international players. I have no idea what TU does and I’m not suggesting that TU or the coach does that. Just stating that there’s lots of reasons why programs don’t choose to recruit in high profile ways.
To the extent I will comment on TU, I think if I heard TU recruiting strategy explained to me now, I would probably reply as President Trump did in the Biden debate: “I don’t know what he just said and I don’t think he does either.”
In one example I’m thinking of, from California, the player had multiple confirmed P5 offers in two sports, including a nationally ranked soccer team. One of the two schools she was interested in academically was a much lower P5 program than any of her other offers. They wouldn’t recruit her without her making the payoff by going to the ID camp. That was never boldly stated, but the communication was all one way. Every time she emailed, called or unofficial visited, the message was always, if you are interested there’s an ID camp coming up …. And she’s like, I’m turning down Duke and UCLA and you want me to come pay you a couple hundred bucks to try out?
Not a whole lot different than that coach that was taking direct kickbacks to get kids into USC. Except it’s legal. And everyone accepts it. Because folks are deseperate for the recognition that they are such a better parent than everyone else because their kid is a D1 athlete. These days it’s almost more important than owning a Stanley cup or driving a G wagon.
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Couple of things….practically every D1 soccer program in the country attends the national events. Coaches are head to toe in school colors. It’s as much about being seen and promoting the school as scouting the players on your list. There must be a reason the successful programs attend these events. You would think a less successful program like TU might follow their lead. It’s a bad look to have little or no presence at these events. It also makes a poor impression on the girls you’re recruiting. The other schools on their list are there. TU doesn’t care enough to show up for my games? Impressions are important. Especially with 15 year old girls. Might explain why we struggle to recruit those girls who have other D1 options.
My kid will never pay to attend a college ID camp. Especially if it’s a condition to be recruited. The optics of that are awful. If TU is doing this they should be ashamed. Colleges invite girls to attend their camps. They waive all camp costs for the girls they want at those camps. In many cases there are the announced ID camps and then much smaller camps where their top targets are invited. Those kids are never charged a fee.
TU should also be reaching out to the top players in Oklahoma and Texas and any other areas we recruit when the girls are freshmen. For whatever reason we don’t. It’s an email. It costs nothing but a little effort from an assistant coach or admin. Recruiting will be over for most of the top players by the summer after their sophomore year. TU’s women soccer program is currently struggling. Why they aren’t more proactive in their outreach to kids in Oklahoma and the bordering states is beyond me.
The girls are emailing the coaching staffs their schedules at showcases and nationals. I just know what it means to a 15 year old girl to have those schools show up in response to those emails.
Yep. My sense, and it’s just a wild guess, is that TU isn’t paying attention until they are 17.
Like I said, Im totally ignorant on these things, but one way of interpreting how it appears is that they are waiting until they are absolutely sure a young woman can prove they have the scores and money to make it through the admissions process. IOW, after the ACT and FAFSA are in.
I’ve just heard too many stories over the last 5-8 years of TU calling girls for the first time during the fall of their senior year— months or even a year after being committed to OSU, Arkansas, etc.
I don’t know how you could be competitive if that is even partially true. Which, like I’ve said earlier, makes me wonder if we are even trying to be competitive. IOW, if the function of the program is now back to what it was in the early 90’s where we simply went through the motions in a lot of sports because we had to in order to play football.
The program is light years from Cami and Jordan being ready to beat just about anybody they were allowed to play, that’s for sure. We went from being two players away from consistently nationally ranked and a first round Cup trip to not being able to attract a top level recruit. Instead, who we sign may or may not develop into an average conference player. Something is either out of the control of the coaching staff or they need to go. Or both.
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