TU Women's Soccer Fall 2023
- Thread starter TU_BLA
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2-0 or 3-0 and you're like, OK, first game, they have some work to do. But 6-0 tells me the backline is a wreck and the MFs can't hold onto the ball long enough in possession to generate anything moving forward.
I believe we lost to OU 1-0 last year in Tulsa and the goal came in the last 15 minutes. I think we've both questioned whether Jim is the right person to be HC long term. I still haven't seen anything to make me think he is. And he's not winning any local recruiting battles as we're losing talented local players to places like UNT, UTSA and Wyoming.
Jim was the easy hire. If a change is made I hope we look outside the program. Would like to see an assistant from a top program brought in. Someone young and energetic. The men have show you can win at TU with the right coach. The women should be no different.
Maybe the 1st call needs to be Yolanda Thomas, who they should have called when Cussen left. It might be too late to grab her as she is an assistant coach with Orlando Pride in WPSL right now. TU missed a great chance to get a great coach and I have no doubt Yolanda would be able to recruit athletes here. If Yo is a no, they should approach Derek Pittman at UTSA. Former TU GK, has built them into a nice program. If you can't grab him then look at Arkansas and their assistants. They always pull a lot of good players from Tulsa and have been really successful building around those girls.
I wish Yo would have stayed with US soccer for selfish reasons but an assistant with a WPSL team was too good to pass up. Would love to see her back in Tulsa. Her trainings were top level.
Y’all would laugh if you knew what TU thinks is a competitive salary for that position.
None of those people you mention or their peers would give serious consideration to the job at the current salary level.
And those that would are sure to have second thoughts if you put him in the sack after two seasons and a game.
Let it play out. We’ve never tried to win the cup with that squad and they are all honors students.
If we suddenly find ourselves playing Stanford with money in our pocket, then maybe you start forming a list if the arc doesn’t trend upward half way through the fourth season.
None of those people you mention or their peers would give serious consideration to the job at the current salary level.
And those that would are sure to have second thoughts if you put him in the sack after two seasons and a game.
Let it play out. We’ve never tried to win the cup with that squad and they are all honors students.
If we suddenly find ourselves playing Stanford with money in our pocket, then maybe you start forming a list if the arc doesn’t trend upward half way through the fourth season.
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They're really bad. The game tonight resembled a poor competitive youth match. This is about as bad as it's been since Amy Edwards left and the woman named Rena (?) ran the program into the ground for 4-5 years before they hired Damon. And there is absolutely no reason why the women's program can't climb to where they should be competing for a conference championship every year. There's a ton of really good players in OK and Dallas who TU could lure to school here. I think the recruiting part is beyond Coach Rhein. TU really needs to grab a new coach and throw the resources he needs at him/her.
You gotta let it play out. The girls may end up playing for each other. The 2012 girls team took awhile but really came together. Losses to ORU in OT, Houston, Florida Gulf and others. Then it clicked and they were unbeatable. I don’t see the same level of talent now, as then, but they’ve got some players that could surprise us. But yeah, I’m concerned.
It was apples and oranges with Rena Richardson. We were in CUSA and every girl was an Academic All-American or at least all academic conference. Like every single girl. They had conditioning issues. That’s a difficult topic to discuss in women’s sports, especially if you are male. But they just didn’t have anything in the tank at the end of games. They had players with talent, but they were gassed by the end. You aren’t going to win much more than 3 games, as Rena did her last year, if nobody is taking the beep test serious. That’s on the coaches but on the players too. But mostly on the program, mostly. It’s a different program now in a different conference.
It was apples and oranges with Rena Richardson. We were in CUSA and every girl was an Academic All-American or at least all academic conference. Like every single girl. They had conditioning issues. That’s a difficult topic to discuss in women’s sports, especially if you are male. But they just didn’t have anything in the tank at the end of games. They had players with talent, but they were gassed by the end. You aren’t going to win much more than 3 games, as Rena did her last year, if nobody is taking the beep test serious. That’s on the coaches but on the players too. But mostly on the program, mostly. It’s a different program now in a different conference.
Our starting 11 is more talented than ORU as is our entire roster. Not saying we don’t need an upgrade in that department but talent isn’t why we aren’t beating the likes of ORU and Texas A&M Commerce. The ladies simply aren’t playing well to start the season. I’m concerned as well but still hopeful. Talent is better than the results thus far imo.
I would agree. From what I saw yesterday I can't figure out why we're not scoring. I would say I don't think Rhein is starting the correct GK. Tatum Sanders was back there most of the season and I really liked what she was able to do. I know she's not as big as the GK they're running out there right now but Sanders seemed to have a firm grasp on the game last year. We are immensely talented up top. Chee is going to be a fantastic player for TU as is Piper Szafranski. TU's backline is all sorts of out of shape, from a tactical standpoint. There's too much space between the 2 CBs and they seemed to get sucked outside an awful lot. And the relationship between the MF and the backline needs to be better. Seemed like there was an awful lot of space between the MF and backlines yesterday and the MFs weren't closing it down quick enough. There is always a ton space and that creates a lot of danger because if a back has to step up and challenge the ball, you're leaving a lot of space behind you if there's a missed tackle. And it sounds from the broadcast that TU has some injuries right now. Hopefully they get it turned around...but it won't be near good enough IMO. While there is talent, there is way too much talent walking out of town when they could be convinced to stay here. And we're not talking about the girls leaving to go to Arkansas and OkState...they're going to places like Wyoming and New Mexico.
Huffy, I knew more about Rena behind the scenes. She may have been a decent soccer coach in terms of knowing the game and how to train and coach players, but she was an absolutely disorganized disaster when it came to the administrative side of things and we know in college soccer (and many of the other non-revenue sports), you are both coach and administrator. It was so bad Tom would organize, advertise, and basically run her summer camps for her minus the actual coaching on the field. She would come to the meetings between the 3 of us and when I talked about the housing and meals stuff she just always had a vacant "I don't know what the hell he is talking about" stare.
I don't think this is difficult to talk about for girls. Unless by conditioning you mean weight. Pressure to be skinny is pretty much constant in running but I don't know if it comes up in soccer. In running, it's a problem for men and women, something like 60% of women distance runners get an eating disorder vs 30% of men so it's not a girl thing. But I wouldn't think it's a big deal in soccer since being at an unhealthy weight is more important at medium and long distances, and it's an advantage mainly for people trying to be just as fast as they possibly can with no other considerations. I don't think there's an issue with saying any athlete lacks adequate conditioning.
Two years ago I would have said no. But now? I’m not sure. Carson has said publicly and on record multiple times that he demands excellence in athletics… and what we’re seeing isn’t that. We’ll see if we make a change and pay someone a legit salary for this level of position.
Are they trying to win some games now? What changed? Did the players decide to start coaching themselves?
They’ve beaten Utep (1-6) and Central Arkansas (1-5). So the caliber of the opponent has been the biggest change. I still contend they are more talented than their results to date. Hopefully the girls can make noise in conference play.
Some players back from injuries but also playing competition not up to TU's challenge. UTEP and UCA are pretty bad. But then again we lost to A&M Commerce which isn't even D1.
There still needs a change in direction along with actual admin support. They need to open a new coach up to recruiting more nationally and supporting them more with additional scholarship money from a merit and need based standpoint since there is no such thing as a full athletic scholarship in soccer. I suspect some of this and TU's price tag keeps some local players away from an affordability standpoint. I mean a really good player from Union went to Wyoming this year. I have no doubt TU probably looked at her and offered her but the affordability factor sent her elsewhere. We need to keep some of the talented local players here. Just look at TSC's ECNL girls. Tons of good players and how many in the past 4-5 years have decided to come to TU? 1, maybe 2 and at least one of those is a TU legacy.
Exactly the opposite. The new coach needs to locate talent that meets baseline needs for year to year success on the pitch and has the family assets to not flinch at the price tag. Find girls that fit TU, see its value, and are willing to pay a substantial portion of their cost of competition. Once upon a time, there were plenty of players in St Louis and Dallas very eager to do that. The program won’t succeed without additional funds. And without a major booster involved the girls themselves need to help infuse the program with hard dollars. So who ever is coaching, whether they are winning or not, needs the program to work out a realistic plan for locating sufficient funding and the coach taking on an appropriate role in that process in addition to their technical duties.
Yeah, Randy brought in a lot of girls from St. Louis, Kansas City (Overland Park really), and Dallas. I mean there were probably 3-4 girls from Cor Jesu in St. Louis back then that I can remember.
Until we start putting more effort and support into recruiting it doesn’t really matter which strategy we use imo. We’re recruiting to program with subpar past results and one which requires substantial out of pocket expenses by the player’s parents. We need to recruit kids longer and harder than other schools to sell this program. TU women’s soccer isn’t an easy sell right now.
The Oklahoma 2007 girls class is very good. Multiple high D1 kids. We aren’t working hard enough on these girls. The Oklahoma 2008 class is very weak. 2009 is a step up and 2010 is quite good. We need to get the top girls and not be satisfied with the middle level ecnl player. This required getting on those players early, building relationships and being a presence at trainings, games and showcases/nationals. To date I haven’t seen enough of that.
The Oklahoma 2007 girls class is very good. Multiple high D1 kids. We aren’t working hard enough on these girls. The Oklahoma 2008 class is very weak. 2009 is a step up and 2010 is quite good. We need to get the top girls and not be satisfied with the middle level ecnl player. This required getting on those players early, building relationships and being a presence at trainings, games and showcases/nationals. To date I haven’t seen enough of that.
This is why I think TU needs to swing for the fences for a coach...why I still think they need to talk to Yolanda Thomas. She is absolutely someone who could do that type of recruiting and convince the Fleekers that TU is a place they can play and thrive and win and make it to NWSL. But TU would need to invest significantly in terms of coaching salaries to get her to move back here.
Not sure who else they could go after. Would Randy Waldrum move back here? Randy wants a challenge right?
If you are at a program that can run a $3 million deficit and not flinch, it’s pretty easy to build relationships and recruit. And that’s the reality at SEC schools like Arkansas and Oklahoma. I was listening to a parent complain about the lack of support they witnessed on a recent trip to Florida State. Not long ago the gold standard for women’s soccer facilities and competition. And then there’s programs like Arkansas State discovering you can throw money at facilities but the athletes they think they can attract still aren’t interested for location and curriculum reasons.
TU has strengths. First, the girls have a long history of academic achievement. The girls not only graduate, they are honors students. And in their chosen major. Look at the roster: it’s mostly nursing and computer science and business majors. Then flip over to the rosters of programs strong regionally you keep mentioning. Much high rates of exercise science, organizational studies, business environment majors, etc. They are recruited based on their willingness to pursue degree programs that fit the soccer teams calendar or travel schedule or being made to do that. The program is bigger than each of its young women. TU is the exact opposite, as it should be, if people have hard coin in the game. Once you weed out the insecure parents who only want their kid to go where it’s free or the best they can go, so that they can feel accomplished as parents or cushion their daughter from confronting feelings that she doesn’t always get the best even if she is “the best”, you are left of parents willing to pay so that’s there’s options after graduation. It takes time to find those parents but it can be done.
TU is an apple. You are talking about becoming an orange where TU has very limited resources and the other oranges have basically unlimited resources and different goals in mind.
Agree there needs to be substantial change in recruiting philosophy. One thing that has always hurt the Olympics is that TU wouldn’t tell the girls the full cost of attendance until very late in the game. Carson and Dickson have been working that from different angles, not necessarily with women’s soccer or Olympic sports in mind, but they will benefit.
At the elite P5 Top 25 tier, women’s coaches are paid more than men. In some cases, far more. About $250,000 a year as a baseline with some being paid even more. Waldrum has a long term deal at Pitt, known for the highest salaries in the ACC. It would not surprise me to learn that Waldrum is making more than our OC Steve Spurrier, Jr.
There’s no chance he would be interested and there’s no chance TU would want him, but just for the sake of discussion, you would need Caleb Porter money to get him probably. 10 year deal at $500,000 guaranteed with inducements to sign and travel benefits like loaner jets for vacations. If you’ve got $5 million to spend on a coach, our basketball donor development staff would like to talk to you. So would Coach Wilson if he wins 8 games. And for that reason, schools like TU aren’t always interested in taking your $5 million to spend it on the coach you think will solve the recruiting problem. It probably will, but it can also create loads of other problems.
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Yo would be an interesting hire. She would almost certainly be able to land several of those elite 07 girls. She is exceptional good at creating and maintaining relationships. I would be willing to bet she has currently the phone number of every top 2006-2010 girl or parent of the girl in the state in her cell phone. Recruiting would definitely improve. Ability to run a D1 program would be the only question mark imo. Unless we hire a proven D1 coach that question will be there of anyone we hire.
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