This is getting out of hand.

[noble cane]

Ok let’s talk about Chicago. Violent crime rates and specifically gun related fatalities have skyrocketed after the Supreme Court overturned a city ordinance banning the carry of handguns in the city in 2008. Then in 2013 the state / city got rid of a gun registry law and subsequently passed a concealed carry law.

Moreover the Chicago PD cites gang activity as well as the flow of guns from surrounding Suburbs and from (Republican) Indiana. There have been studies that day that 60% of the guns used in gang crime in Chicago come from other states. It’s not Chicago itself that’s the problem. It’s the surrounding states (Wisconsin + Indiana) that are hindering it.

You might ought to check your murder stats.. they were flat from '08-16... in 16 the CPD initiated a no stop policy and hands off policing in response to the Fergusson Riots..since then their solve rates have plummeted and they rely more on electronic surveillance than real police work..

 

[astonmartin708]

And the Left has become quite intolerant of his free thinking.
He has made his own gold and thrown off the democrats chains and the dems have never liked runaways.

There are no "democrat's chains". The problem with Kanye is that his music has gotten progressively worse for several years. He married into a trainwreck reality TV family and completely ostracized the community that he grew up in, in terms of wanting to help it. I honestly think he's a manic depressive, bipolar that doesn't take his meds.

 

[noble cane]

There are no "democrat's chains". The problem with Kanye is that his music has gotten progressively worse for several years. He married into a trainwreck reality TV family and completely ostracized the community that he grew up in, in terms of wanting to help it. I honestly think he's a manic depressive, bipolar that doesn't take his meds.

Democrat chains... they are just golden now..

 

[astonmartin708]

[Q

You might ought to check your murder stats.. they were flat from '08-16... in 16 the CPD initiated a no stop policy and hands off policing in response to the Fergusson Riots..since then their solve rates have plummeted and they rely more on electronic surveillance than real police work..

You ought to check the arrest stats. They've been arresting drug related offenses like gangbusters but haven't been arresting people for homicides.

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/11/mo...oods-while-police-make-non-stop-drug-arrests/

It has more to do with the shrinking number of detectives in the force and the increasing number of gang unit cops who are basically just out on the streets to harass would-be groups of young kids. The other problem is that Chicago has been facing budget shortages that made staffing changes and redistricting necessary. There are some complex problems with the state's pension plans in relation to their COLA for pensioners being guaranteed by the state constitution. Their COLA has outpaced inflation and is costing the city money but they can't stop it due to the constitutional amendment.

 

[astonmartin708]

Quite a few large cities and various states are struggling to fund pensions and a lot (about half in most cases) of that struggle can be tied back to having to fund ever-increasing healthcare costs for retirees. Fixing the healthcare problem could have far-reaching benefits. As incredible as it sounds, fixing healthcare could help the crime rate in inner cities as the cities could more readily balance their budgets.

 

[noble cane]

[Q

You ought to check the arrest stats. They've been arresting drug related offenses like gangbusters but haven't been arresting people for homicides.

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/11/mo...oods-while-police-make-non-stop-drug-arrests/

It has more to do with the shrinking number of detectives in the force and the increasing number of gang unit cops who are basically just out on the streets to harass would-be groups of young kids. The other problem is that Chicago has been facing budget shortages that made staffing changes and redistricting necessary. There are some complex problems with the state's pension plans in relation to their COLA for pensioners being guaranteed by the state constitution. Their COLA has outpaced inflation and is costing the city money but they can't stop it due to the constitutional amendment.

So.. you agrre that the court decision was irrelevant. Good we agree.

 

[astonmartin708]

So.. you agrre that the court decision was irrelevant. Good we agree.

No. I think there are multiple things working against Chicago and other cities getting their crime under control other than just police taking hands off approaches. Which I haven't seen any continued implementation of after Ferguson in 2016.

 

[shon46]

I think you have missed the point. There are millions of minorities who have in the past 5 yrs converted from Democratic Party and will continue to convert to the conservative side bc the liberal values have eroded minority communities. I don’t agree with funding mass abortion, I don’t agree with open borders, I don’t agree with long term welfare, I believe in nationalism not globalism, I believe in tough immigration laws, I believe in gun advocacy not control, While you might see Kanye as an outside minority voice who is a one off, I see him as one of millions of minorities who are choosing the conservatives side.

Ok let’s talk about Chicago. Violent crime rates and specifically gun related fatalities have skyrocketed after the Supreme Court overturned a city ordinance banning the carry of handguns in the city in 2008. Then in 2013 the state / city got rid of a gun registry law and subsequently passed a concealed carry law.

Moreover the Chicago PD cites gang activity as well as the flow of guns from surrounding Suburbs and from (Republican) Indiana. There have been studies that day that 60% of the guns used in gang crime in Chicago come from other states. It’s not Chicago itself that’s the problem. It’s the surrounding states (Wisconsin + Indiana) that are hindering it.

Guns don’t kill people, crazy people kill people. The failure in Chicago has been with the Democratic leaderships lack of ability to reform the public school system, poor police enforcement strategies and failure to increase job opportunities.

 

[lawpoke87]

....and no one cares

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...iest-day-violence-murder-history-police-crime

 

[maverickfp]

I guess those black lives don't matter to the dems and blm. Very sad for those young people and their families. Oh, i forgot, it was Indianas fault.

 

[lawpoke87]

Yesterday.....two teenage boys, a teenage girl and a 3 year old were all murdered in Chicago. There will be no protests, no outcry, no media coverage. Why? No racial angle? Just innocent kids dying in mass on the streets of our cities.

 

[HuffyCane]

I lived in Chicago for three years on the South Side (MLK and State, if you are familiar). Stepped over dead bodies on my commute. Stepped over homeless people I thought were dead. Gunshots every night. The biggest problem is the rampant police corruption. Most of the murder, drug dealing and petty crime you are lamenting is the result of Dem controlled city hall and police tolerating, regulating and in some cases actually organizing and profiting, going back more than a century. Some parts of the city are gorgeous but other parts are a failed state at this point no different than parts of Central America and Eastern Europe. If you want to learn about the history of racial and economic segregation in this country and it’s impact today, go to Chicago. It doesn’t explain white PhD terrorists in Seattle. It does explain why other people are breaking things across the country.

 

[Clong83a]

I lived in Chicago for three years on the South Side (MLK and State, if you are familiar). Stepped over dead bodies on my commute. Stepped over homeless people I thought were dead. Gunshots every night. The biggest problem is the rampant police corruption. Most of the murder, drug dealing and petty crime you are lamenting is the result of Dem controlled city hall and police tolerating, regulating and in some cases actually organizing and profiting, going back more than a century. It’s a failed state at this point no different than parts of Central America and Eastern Europe.

Not saying Chicago doesn’t have huge problems with violence, because it does. But the problem is bigger than that.

I found a dead body around 15th and Riverside one time on an early morning jog once. I witnessed a murder from my balcony in San Diego as well, and regularly was propositioned by street prostitutes on my way to my car while going to work.

The murder was a stabbing. The police came out and did their thing, but they for some reason didn’t clean up the blood. It left a stain on the sidewalk that was there for months. It was the dry season and it was a big drought. I also witnessed numerous police chases and once saw a guy throw a gun from his car as about ten cop cars were chasing down the block.

All of this to say that while Chicago gets a lot of attention, these types of problems are systemic nearly everywhere. The only place I haven’t seen any issues like this at all is Los Alamos. The silence of people protesting an insanely high standard of everyday violence and poverty related crimes is deafening.

FYI, San Diego is a relative GOP stronghold in SoCal. The problem goes beyond local politics.

 

[lawpoke87]

I lived in Chicago for three years on the South Side (MLK and State, if you are familiar). Stepped over dead bodies on my commute. Stepped over homeless people I thought were dead. Gunshots every night. The biggest problem is the rampant police corruption. Most of the murder, drug dealing and petty crime you are lamenting is the result of Dem controlled city hall and police tolerating, regulating and in some cases actually organizing and profiting, going back more than a century. Some parts of the city are gorgeous but other parts are a failed state at this point no different than parts of Central America and Eastern Europe. If you want to learn about the history of racial and economic segregation in this country and it’s impact today, go to Chicago. It doesn’t explain white PhD terrorists in Seattle. It does explain why other people are breaking things across the country.

I have no problem with that reasoning. My response....fix it. Chicago has a black mayor and black police chief. They are governed at every level by people who claim to care. Then CARE. Every talk show this am and every sports show are dead silent about the violence which plagued our cities. Let’s place the focus where it belongs. Instead the people who “care” play racial politics instead of talking about real answers to our real problems. It’s maddening.

 

[astonmartin708]

Yesterday.....two teenage boys, a teenage girl and a 3 year old were all murdered in Chicago. There will be no protests, no outcry, no media coverage. Why? No racial angle? Just innocent kids dying in mass on the streets of our cities.

Was is done by an officer abusing his power or a normal criminal who never took an oath to serve and protect / uphold the law?

 

[HuffyCane]

I have no problem with that reasoning. My response....fix it. Chicago has a black mayor and black police chief. They are governed at every level by people who claim to care. Then CARE. Every talk show this am and every sports show are dead silent about the violence which plagued our cities. Let’s place the focus where it belongs. Instead the people who “care” play racial politics instead of talking about real answers to our real problems. It’s maddening.

They’ve been compromised or compromised themselves is my point.

 

[lawpoke87]

Was is done by an officer abusing his power or a normal criminal who never took an oath to serve and protect / uphold the law?

Not sure that really matters to those dead kids or their grieving parents. Kids who had no criminal records or past and this is happening in mass everyday in this country at an alarming rate...and is met with silence from those who purport to care about their lives. Why don’t we care about those families living in these war zones every day? Why don’t we care about the lives of black children?

 

[lawpoke87]

They’ve been compromised or compromised themselves is my point.

Fine....why aren’t the leaders in these communities working to fix the problem. Why aren’t they marching in protests of the four kids murdered in Chicago yesterday? Where’s the press conference? Where’s the media? Where’s the outcry from our pro athletes ? Nothing will ever get better until we acknowledge the problem.

 

[astonmartin708]

Not sure that really matters to those dead kids or their grieving parents. Kids who had no criminal records or past and this is happening in mass everyday in this country at an alarming rate...and is met with silence from those who purport to care about their lives. Why don’t we care about those families living in these war zones every day? Why don’t we care about the lives of black children?

No, we just argue that it's more important that the people allegging to protect the law be held to a higher standard so as we might actually begin to trust them to more effectively prevent other criminals. It doesn't help anyone in the old west when the sheriff's deputies is just as bad as the outlaw's posse.

 

[lawpoke87]

No, we just argue that it's more important that the people allegging to protect the law be held to a higher standard so as we might actually begin to trust them to more effectively prevent other criminals. It doesn't help anyone in the old west when the sheriff's deputies is just as bad as the outlaw's posse.

No we argue that one death is more important than 500 deaths. That is the correct ratio btw. Hell...we pretend the 500 don’t happen because it doesn’t fit our political agenda. It’s absolutely shameful. Innocent people (including children) being murder in large numbers...and we don’t care because we it doesn’t fit into a racial agenda. The families of all those dead children don’t care about agendas. I’m even ok to raise hell about both. Sadly, I’m about the only one.

 

[astonmartin708]

No we argue that one death is more important than 500 deaths. That is the correct ratio btw. Hell...we pretend the 500 don’t happen because it doesn’t fit our political agenda. It’s absolutely shameful. Innocent people (including children) being murder in large numbers...and we don’t care because we it doesn’t fit into a racial agenda. The families of all those dead children don’t care about agendas. I’m even ok to raise hell about both. Sadly, I’m about the only one.

The 500 will tend to happen anyway, at least as the makeup of the country is now (with gun nuts, economic inequality, drug problems, etc...) . The 1 is more important because they hold authority over the rest of us. Similar to how the nation would freak out if a president were shot and no one did anything about it. You have to fix the 1 before you can fix the 500. Like, you the engine in your car... it's really important. It drives the entire car, but if you don't have a key it doesn't matter if the engine in broken or not. The whole car is defunct as long as the thing that gives it authority to run is missing.

 

[lawpoke87]

The 500 will tend to happen anyway, at least as the makeup of the country is now (with gun nuts, economic inequality, drug problems, etc...) . The 1 is more important because they hold authority over the rest of us. Similar to how the nation would freak out if a president were shot and no one did anything about it. You have to fix the 1 before you can fix the 500. Like, you the engine in your car... it's really important. It drives the entire car, but if you don't have a key it doesn't matter if the engine in broken or not. The whole car is defunct as long as the thing that gives it authority to run is missing.

There are so many things wrong with your argument.

First...over 6000 black males were murdered last year representing almost half of all murders yet making up roughly 6% of our population. Dismissing these murders or the murder of children in these neighborhoods because they tend to happen anyway is a defeatist approach and throws away the lives of thousands of black Americans.

Second...police actions are not the first step. Economic and social change are. I’m constantly at a loss that the left never discussed the single most telling factor on the quality of life and future of black children....two parent homes. While we can all agree that we need better behaved police this does little to solve the societal issues which result in the poverty, drugs, gangs, and violence we see in our larger cities.

Your argument as well as your unwillingness to address the mass problems in these communities make zero sense. Typical blame everything and everyone while failing to look at the underlying causes of the conditions found in these communities....and it’s not a few bad cops

 

[astonmartin708]

There are so many things wrong with your argument.

First...over 6000 black males were murdered last year representing almost half of all murders yet making up roughly 6% of our population. Dismissing these murders or the murder of children in these neighborhoods because they tend to happen anyway is a defeatist approach and throws away the lives of thousands of black Americans.

Second...police actions are not the first step. Economic and social change are. I’m constantly at a loss that the left never discussed the single most telling factor on the quality of life and future of black children....two parent homes. While we can all agree that we need better behaved police this does little to solve the societal issues which result in the poverty, drugs, gangs, and violence we see in our larger cities.

Your argument as well as your unwillingness to address the mass problems in these communities make zero sense. Typical blame everything and everyone while failing to look at the underlying causes of the conditions found in these communities....and it’s not a few bad cops

Fixing the police is a much easier task to accomplish than fixing the entire socioeconomic system of multiple urban communities across the country. Much like being able to turn on a car is a necessity to check and see if your engine rebuild is successful or not, being able to trust the police who you are paying to enforce the laws that are being broken is also a necessity to test the effectiveness of the changes you've made to the economic and social systems in these communities.

You can't have an authority system that promotes disorder while trying to establish order. It's like saying that the kids in a classroom are out of control and choosing to ignore the fact that the teacher is smoking pot on her lunch breaks.

 

[shon46]

There are so many things wrong with your argument.

First...over 6000 black males were murdered last year representing almost half of all murders yet making up roughly 6% of our population. Dismissing these murders or the murder of children in these neighborhoods because they tend to happen anyway is a defeatist approach and throws away the lives of thousands of black Americans.

Second...police actions are not the first step. Economic and social change are. I’m constantly at a loss that the left never discussed the single most telling factor on the quality of life and future of black children....two parent homes. While we can all agree that we need better behaved police this does little to solve the societal issues which result in the poverty, drugs, gangs, and violence we see in our larger cities.

Your argument as well as your unwillingness to address the mass problems in these communities make zero sense. Typical blame everything and everyone while failing to look at the underlying causes of the conditions found in these communities....and it’s not a few bad cops

Your second point is one of the reasons why I will never support BLM. If you go to their page they state the following; We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.” The value of growing up with both parents in the house is priceless. Their whole group and what they stand for written in their own is nonsensical and a cancer to our society.

 

[astonmartin708]

Your second point is one of the reasons why I will never support BLM. If you go to their page they state the following; We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.” The value of growing up with both parents in the house is priceless. Their whole group and what they stand for written in their own is nonsensical and a cancer to our society.

As a person who grew up without a two parent structure... I can tell you that a two family system makes things easier, but it's really not in terms of discipline, it's in terms of $$$. When you have a household that earns wages that take care of the entire family in terms of maintaining livability the kids have less to rebel against.

 

[lawpoke87]

Your second point is one of the reasons why I will never support BLM. If you go to their page they state the following; We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.” The value of growing up with both parents in the house is priceless. Their whole group and what they stand for written in their own is nonsensical and a cancer to our society.

They either are ignoring statistics or aren’t aware of the same regarding the advantages of being raised by two parents. Ignoring is the obvious answer btw. BLM and like minded groups tend to run away from anything resembling self responsibility. Much easier to simply blame ones plight on third parties. Unfortunately, until we change the underlying problems of family we are destined to follow the same failed policies we’ve seen for years.

 

[lawpoke87]

As a person who grew up without a two parent structure... I can tell you that a two family system makes things easier, but it's really not in terms of discipline, it's in terms of $$$. When you have a household that earns wages that take care of the entire family in terms of maintaining livability the kids have less to rebel against.

I agree although income is obviously a factor as well especially when it comes to the ability to move away from those violence plagued neighborhoods. Areas were staying away from the violence and gangs can be difficult for teenage boys being raised by a single mother. Statistics don’t lie when it comes to kids from two parent homes. We need to start there and work on programs to ensure a greater percentage of black children have that advantage. Far too few black leaders push this agenda despite the fact that a two parent household is the single most important factor in determining whether a black graduates high school, stays out of prison, etc.. Its dumbfounding that this isn’t the first words out of the mouth of every activist group.

 

[shon46]

As a person who grew up without a two parent structure... I can tell you that a two family system makes things easier, but it's really not in terms of discipline, it's in terms of $$$. When you have a household that earns wages that take care of the entire family in terms of maintaining livability the kids have less to rebel against.

To me it has nothing to do with the financial part. IMO Only a man can teach another man how to be a man. There are life lessons that need to be passed from generation to generation. Black women do the best they can but there is no replacement for the black father. If BLM would use the power of protest to prevent black on black crime instead of defunding the police, maybe there wouldn’t be so many violent crimes committed. Until we address this not just in the black community but in all communities, we will have generations of men who grow up resentful, disgruntled, hopeless, feminine, Undisciplined, lost, confused, and misguided.

 

[astonmartin708]

To me it has nothing to do with the financial part. IMO Only a man can teach another man how to be a man. There are life lessons that need to be passed from generation to generation. Black women do the best they can but there is no replacement for the black father. If BLM would use the power of protest to prevent black on black crime instead of defunding the police, maybe there wouldn’t be so many violent crimes committed. Until we address this not just in the black community but in all communities, we will have generations of men who grow up resentful, disgruntled, hopeless, feminine, Undisciplined, lost, confused, and misguided.

That’s an extremely misguided view.

 

[shon46]

That’s an extremely misguided view.

Ok let’s talk about that. Would you want your kids to grow up in a single parent household?

 

[astonmartin708]

Ok let’s talk about that. Would you want your kids to grow up in a single parent household?

I don’t think that “manhood” can only be taught by a father. I think a two parent household makes things easier on the parents and the kids in terms of availability of time and resources for the kids and it splits the work (ideally) between the parents making them happier as well.

Things like responsibility, masculinity, etc... can be taught by more than just a dad. Just like a single dad can raise feminine girls. Again, the biggest difference in a single parent household is the tendency for it to struggle financially and logistically in terms of who’s able to watch the kids when the single parent is working.

 

[shon46]

I don’t think that “manhood” can only be taught by a father. I think a two parent household makes things easier on the parents and the kids in terms of availability of time and resources for the kids and it splits the work (ideally) between the parents making them happier as well.

Things like responsibility, masculinity, etc... can be taught by more than just a dad. Just like a single dad can raise feminine girls. Again, the biggest difference in a single parent household is the tendency for it to struggle financially and logistically in terms of who’s able to watch the kids when the single parent is working.

You didn’t answer my question. Let me re-ask it. Would you want your kids to grow up in a single parent household?

 

[astonmartin708]

You didn’t answer my question. Let me re-ask it. Would you want your kids to grow up in a single parent household?

I would rather not have to do all the work myself, but if my wife died, I would know that my kids would still be fine as long as I could give them the time and resources that they needed.

 

[shon46]

I would rather not have to do all the work myself, but if my wife died, I would know that my kids would still be fine as long as I could give them the time and resources that they needed.

So your answer is no?

 

[astonmartin708]

So your answer is no?

My answer is that I wouldn't prefer it to the alternative. But the reasons I wouldn't prefer it to the alternative aren't the same asinine reasons you listed at all.

 

[lawpoke87]

I don’t think that “manhood” can only be taught by a father. I think a two parent household makes things easier on the parents and the kids in terms of availability of time and resources for the kids and it splits the work (ideally) between the parents making them happier as well.

Things like responsibility, masculinity, etc... can be taught by more than just a dad. Just like a single dad can raise feminine girls. Again, the biggest difference in a single parent household is the tendency for it to struggle financially and logistically in terms of who’s able to watch the kids when the single parent is working.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that a single parent household can’t raise great kids who turn into productive adults. I was simply referring to years of statistics showing two parent households as a significant factor in kids graduating high school, staying out of gangs and prison, etc... The lack of discussion and push to improve this area is what I find frustrating. We would rather focus on political buzz words and divisive language rather than look at solutions we have statistical proof of success.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that a single parent household can’t raise great kids who turn into productive adults. I was simply referring to years of statistics showing two parent households as a significant factor in kids graduating high school, staying out of gangs and prison, etc... The lack of discussion and push to improve this area is what I find frustrating. We would rather focus on political buzz words and divisive language rather than look at solutions we have statistical proof of success.

I don't disagree with your statistics, but I disagree with the fact that we should do more to promote two parents home than we should to improve the ability of single parent homes to cope with the difficulties of parenthood.

 

[lawpoke87]

I don't disagree with your statistics, but I disagree with the fact that we should do more to promote two parents home than we should to improve the ability of single parent homes to cope with the difficulties of parenthood.

I don’t recall ever saying that we shouldn’t improve the ability of single parent homes to cope with those difficulties. In fact, I never said we should choose one over the other. What I’ve repeatedly stated is that two parent households offer children the best chance to stay out of trouble and become productive law abiding adults yet we don’t even address this fact or promote the idea of two parent households. Why....because it doesn’t fit into a political agenda which unfortunately is more important to many than actually helping children. Unless you have another explanation ?

 

[TUMe]

I understand what you are saying, Lawpoke, but sometimes a two parent family is not all that nurturing. This gets into staying together for the kids. And maybe the family is not quite ideal or could even be abusive between partners and generations. It's easy to observe that two parent family produce good results, however, that certainly isn't true of every two parent family.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don’t recall ever saying that we shouldn’t improve the ability of single parent homes to cope with those difficulties. In fact, I never said we should choose one over the other. What I’ve repeatedly stated is that two parent households offer children the best chance to stay out of trouble and become productive law abiding adults yet we don’t even address this fact or promote the idea of two parent households. Why....because it doesn’t fit into a political agenda which unfortunately is more important to many than actually helping children. Unless you have another explanation ?

It’s because I don’t believe marriage or having kids should be part of any political agenda. Moms (Or dads) who choose or are forced to raise their kids solo shouldn’t be browbeat for not giving their child another parent. It’s not the single parent’s fault that kids tend to do worse with one parent, it’s society’s fault for not helping common families (single or dual parent families) more.

In terms of making sure certain at risk youths have two parents, the primary way to do that would be to start reducing the incarceration rate for ethnic fathers. The only problem is, that only solves half the problem. If the fathers that you let out of prison (or the ones that don’t end up in prison due to altered laws) can’t get jobs then they’re just going to fall back into a criminal lifestyle to benefit themselves. And, even if you make it where jobs are available to them, they will only be low-end jobs for most of them since they don’t tend to be well trained for anything else.

That is why I support a community centric policy that focuses on making it where young kids have better economic avenues to pursue so that crime doesn’t look like such an attractive option. We honestly might not be able to bring a bunch of lifelong prison inmates back into normal society and expect them to exist like every one else. But, we can make it where their kids have better opportunities.