ADVERTISEMENT

Student debt

They are gonna love you guys in the faculty lounge, the landscaper's union break room, etc.

Sounds like you want to move to Germany where they tell everyone at 14 what they are good at, whether it is sports or school, and if you are not, you become a plumber or mechanic.
Same thing in the UK. GCSE's. O-Levels, etc... Go figure... it might mean that kids who are smart go to university rather than just those who can afford it.

I think the only people who throw a fit about this are the people who are afraid they wouldn't pass.

And don't try to make it some socialist ideal. These were rolled out during Thatcher. I thought rewarding hard work and merit was a Republican ideal... maybe not. I suppose we can keep printing loads of communications degrees just so the universities can soak up the $$$.
 
Last edited:
This is something I'm torn about and everyone knows I am more left leaning. There's a catch 22 here. The Direct Loan program has made it possible for millions of people to attend college to make up some of the gap between where school merit and need based aid between grants and scholarships ends and the reasonable amount parents can contribute. I say reasonable amount because some of the amounts we've seen are ridiculous. My son visited Duke in July and their literature quoted an amount of "Expected Parent Contribution (avg.)" of $35k PER YEAR. I can, with certainty, tell you that schools do not factor in other children in the household unless they are also actively attending a college or university when calculating that figure. The original intent of the Direct Loan program (federal student loans) were intended to fill that gap with an average of $2500-$5000/yr. Schools saw how willing the Fed. Gov't was to loan this money out at low interest rates and students were able to borrow at reasonable interest rates. And retention became a HUGE buzzword in the 90's/2000s and still is now so schools took advantage of the loan program and increased the # of student services for every little area and started creating new VP positions and departments to handle these services passing the cost along in tuition, rooms, and dining plans. I saw a news report today that the cost of college has increased 180% since 1990 due in large part to the addition of all these extra VP level positions that demand 6 figure salaries. And schools just use the loan program to help make up for that increase now which is why we are where we are today.

I'm all for forgiving a small amount of the loans which is what Biden did but we should not forgive all of an individual's loan if it's over the $10k. Also, do all of the individuals celebrating this forgiveness realize they are required to declare that amount as income on their 2023 tax returns? Bet they don't. (There is some irony in the GOP stance on this considering MarkWayne Mullin had $1.2M in PPP loans from COVID forgiven in 2020. I'm guessing that amount was not declared as revenue on Mullin Plumbing Inc.'s 2020 tax filings). But forgiving student load debt without serious reform in how loans are doled out AND without Dept. of Ed forcing schools to reform how they offer them will only mean we are in the same place in 10 years. Public universities need to demand their funding from their state legislatures as states have contributed to this problem by cutting funding resulting the the cost of public institution skyrocketing. Private universities need to reign in their costs on auxiliary services and a hard look at re-organization at how some of these auxiliary service areas operate and what the real personnel needs are to effectively operate these areas. And financial aid offices need to be more forthright in how they present their aid packages (and Admissions offices need to be truthful while recruiting students...again, firsthand know the admissions reps at ORU flat out misled prospective students in telling them they would get financial aid that would cover about 90% of a given semester's tuition, housing, and dining costs...but they didn't tell them that about 50% of that aid was likely going to be Parent Plus loans...and you know the good Dave Ramsey worshipping folks aren't having any of that. ORU would frequently seek praise for their record incoming classes..and sure on move in day I was adding beds to double rooms to accommodate this record # of students knowing full well that in 2 weeks I'd have 200 empty beds from all the students who left because they refused their loans and couldn't pay the $15k they were on the hook for that semester). The student loan program needs to be overhauled but has to be done in conjunction with universities if there is to be an true impact.
 
Throughout the 1990s and into the early 2000's I lobbied Congress with colleagues at other firms and advocacy organizations to have amend Chapter 125 of the Internal Revenue Code to allow students for the first ten years after graduation to divert pre-tax dollars into essentially an IRA that would disburse a lump sum at the ten year mark to repay the debt. Kids need to pay back their loans, then save for retirement, so give them the same advantages. At the time, the military had a similar program before we needed everyone for a war and changed that program. Of course, that means the Congress isn't collecting tax when it could, so nobody is in favor of that.

I dont have time to unpack this today or the next few weeks. He's the short answer. In the 1990s, schools had faculty retiring from the WWII generation, Baby Boomer faculty at the height of their earning power, skyrocketing health insurance and pension costs that weren't projected, AND students were demanding computer labs, cable television and internet connections on campus. They didn't have a way to pay for all their competing demands. They didn't have a way to pay for even one of them.

So much like the Democrats do, they take a public programming problem and fashion a populist solution at tax payer expense so that their friends get rich and voter turnout gets upped. And that's how you got student loans as a way for "every child to realize the American dream." Even though the American dream was a family farm or low cost housing and safe industrial manual labor in its original form. They sold it as middle class welfare as a bridge between the price increases they needed to raise and the family contribution means of most of their target recruits. The problem was most of those costs went up even further - IT infrastructure and health insurance for retirees - and the education folks figured out that they could name their price, Congress would OK it, and the kids would blindly sign. And they knew what they were doing when they specifically provided that you couldn't discharge these debts in bankruptcy.

Who benefitted? Congress in purple districts got to go home and say they were doing something. State legislators loved it, They got to build lots of fancy new stuff and not raise taxes. Banks were all about it of course, especially when they loosened up the rules on parents co-signing. But the people that really benefited, beyond all the democrats on campus, was the cabal of Democratic operatives that immediately went into the loan processing business. And you are seeing that now. All of these rule changes on student loan forgiveness, debt cancellations, etc. The evaluations for eligibility are not being performed by the federal government, but government contractors - most of whom have no experience in this area because its never been done before. Same thing with immigration. The Democrats created a flood of people coming over the border seeking relief from the conditions in their own country and the only solution is to set up a bunch of relief companies with no experience run by people who just left the Administration. Thats how the US government spends $400 million last year on free hotels to offset an overwhelmed immigration system and nobody really knows how many rooms were actually occupied by asylum seekers. But the company running that free hotel operation sure got rich and the Biden appointees that left to run the operation sure did too. And you are a racist if you ask questions. The system is designed that way. The same thing will happen here. He unilaterally announces a program that Congress could and refused to create, the system gets overwhelmed, so he authorizes his ex-employees to create companies to meet the demand and throws money at it. And of course a substantial portion of that money goes back into student debt relief advocacy, political donations, academic studies to justify results, and fundraising. The machine becomes sentient and the elite get rich. You pay.

The solution is forgive all of it. Public or private. Cancel it at the federal level and mail checks to the private banks. Together with a confession that it was all a massive scam. I abhor that solution as a fiscal conservative, but sometimes government just has to bite the bullet and restore faith in the system by admitting its mistakes. And if we have to forgo big budgets in Labor, Transportation or Agriculture to do it, so be it.

A lot has been written about the moral hazards of doing this, that is self evident and isn't worth the discussion.

There has really been no legitimate discussion on potential solutions because nobody in DC is interested in stopping the money rolling in on the Left and the Right isn't interest in co-signing middle class welfare, particularly for medical and law school graduates that make up about 70% of the debt. The lesson here is the same one that Clinton learned on environmental policy in national forests. Biden is going to learn the hard way that the only thing worse than doing nothing is doing half measures that pisses off both sides. So on the next issues, there will be no compromises, especially if Democrat polling recovers. Buckle your helmets. Both sides will be going to war. Probably over energy policy.
 
Last edited:
Does the loan forgiveness plan have a offsetting revenue source to pay for the same? Seems rather relevant given the increasing debt service costs we’re facing.
In theory, some of it is supposed to be offsetting. A lot of these loans cost more to administrate than they are bringing in, so while there's no positive revenue directly funding it, reduced appropriations in the future, in theory lol, will pay for it. Dont hold your breath. See above.
 
Does the loan forgiveness plan have a offsetting revenue source to pay for the same? Seems rather relevant given the increasing debt service costs we’re facing.

In theory, some of it is supposed to be offsetting. A lot of these loans cost more to administrate than they are bringing in, so while there's no positive revenue directly funding it, reduced appropriations in the future, in theory lol, will pay for it. Dont hold your breath. See above.
The solution is forgive all of it. Public or private. Cancel it at the federal level and mail checks to the private banks. Together with a confession that it was all a massive scam. I abhor that solution as a fiscal conservative, but sometimes government just has to bite the bullet and restore faith in the system by admitting its mistakes. And if we have to forgo big budgets in Labor, Transportation or Agriculture to do it, so be it.
I like your reset solution. Start fresh with new lending rules and guidelines for schools in where these funds must be applied. For instance, loans can only be applied to actual tuition costs. Schools will need to figure out a way to get students a way to be able to pay for books, rooms & board, and assorted fees. Room & board are the 2 greatest revenue makers for universities. It was once explained to me that tuition covered anything classroom related (faculty salary, labs, academic building day to day operations). Room & board revenue paid for most of the rest of the non-academic operations campus wide. I say this because at ORU, scholarships and grants could only be applied to tuition at ORU so most students had to take out loans or pay for room and board. The actual cost of the dining plan was about $1000/sem. ORU charged anywhere between $1995-$2695 for their different meal plan options. Meal plans are designed around the understanding that a student is only going to eat about 50% of their allotted meals in any given week. This is why you see universities require meal based dining plans for a student's 1st two years. And we've all seen university bills and wondered what all the ridiculous fees are.

The other caveat on the loans is there is almost ALWAYS a refund back to the student from anywhere between $500-$2000 per semester. So how much $$$ did a student take out that never got applied to any direct cost related to their attending a given school (tuition, room, board, books, etc.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawpoke87
I would have liked to have people who receive the forgiveness be asked to enroll in a public works / AmericaCorps type civil service project for a day or two a month for a few years.

I think most people would be happy to do it.
While I think this is a good idea, now you're asking someone to oversee this type of program and administer it. Those individuals aren't volunteering their time to do that
 
I like your reset solution. Start fresh with new lending rules and guidelines for schools in where these funds must be applied. For instance, loans can only be applied to actual tuition costs. Schools will need to figure out a way to get students a way to be able to pay for books, rooms & board, and assorted fees. Room & board are the 2 greatest revenue makers for universities. It was once explained to me that tuition covered anything classroom related (faculty salary, labs, academic building day to day operations). Room & board revenue paid for most of the rest of the non-academic operations campus wide. I say this because at ORU, scholarships and grants could only be applied to tuition at ORU so most students had to take out loans or pay for room and board. The actual cost of the dining plan was about $1000/sem. ORU charged anywhere between $1995-$2695 for their different meal plan options. Meal plans are designed around the understanding that a student is only going to eat about 50% of their allotted meals in any given week. This is why you see universities require meal based dining plans for a student's 1st two years. And we've all seen university bills and wondered what all the ridiculous fees are.

The other caveat on the loans is there is almost ALWAYS a refund back to the student from anywhere between $500-$2000 per semester. So how much $$$ did a student take out that never got applied to any direct cost related to their attending a given school (tuition, room, board, books, etc.)
The problem with that is that if you limit borrowing to tuition only, then the equity crowd will say you are locking out those that can't afford the fees and room and board. It becomes middle class welfare for those that can afford to pay the fees and live in nice suburbs. And there's no authority to cap tuition, nor would you want to do that, nor would the Presidents go along with that. So the price will inflate. If you did cap tuition, the fees would inflate to cover the hidden losses such as administration bloat. Which is what has happened in states that have capped tuition by statute.

You cannot legislate around the greedy schemes of the academy. Trust me, way too many people have tried. There's a reason Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex and the academic research complex. And a reason the academics dont teach you the second part of the speech.

FWIW, food and housing at TU is a break even proposition as we make TU more affordable. In England food and housing is largely endowed and at a low or no cost offering to students at the elite universities and schools like TU. Rather than giving huge sums to faculty to research and maybe teach one class a year, or a football stadium, charitable giving is provided to those in need of immediate help and society gets the benefit of more graduates. When I return to my Oxford college, meals are served with formal service, cloth napkins, and real sterling silver cutlery. Its typically a three course meal with choice of bread and dessert, as well as water and a glass of wine for approximately $6.50 US. The building has been there for almost 700 years. In the US we have donors give us money to build shiny new cafeterias every 20 years to set up the shake down scheme you describe above and make even more revenue. For all of their self-interested self righteous virtue seeking, there are some seriously twisted minds on college campuses. People need to start calling BS in ways other than not going to college.
 
Last edited:
The problem with that is that if you limit borrowing to tuition only, then the equity crowd will say you are locking out those that can't afford the fees and room and board. It becomes middle class welfare for those that can afford to pay the fees and live in nice suburbs. And there's no authority to cap tuition, nor would you want to do that, nor would the Presidents go along with that. So the price will inflate. If you did cap tuition, the fees would inflate to cover the hidden losses such as administration bloat. Which is what has happened in states that have capped tuition by statute.
The point was more that ORU will award scholarships and need based grants but they only cover tuition. In ORU's case, it's fake money that is more like a tuition discount than it is an actual scholarship. They know by telling a kid they have a full tuition scholarship, they are likely to get the kid on campus only for the kid to find out that any outside scholarships they have will be applied to tuition first and then the amount of grants/scholarships from ORU is reduced...and that money cannot be applied to room & board. So the student is still on the hook for $20k + per year and a lot of it comes in the form of loans...which is actual cash inflow to ORU (to subsidize Billy's E21 ministry). Remember what I said about ORU's inflated dining costs...yeah most of that goes to operations and covering some of the faculty salaries where in an ideal university budget it would go all to non-academic related operational costs. And ORU requires 4 years of on campus residency. They used to justify it as being part of community in relationship with Jesus (and more to make sure they knew what you were doing and not engaging in any unChristian-like behavior) but now it's honestly a money grab. Most schools have a 1 or 2 year requirement related to student development objectives and research.

I know when I left TU, dining plans were hella expensive, probably $1000-$1200 above cost plus 10-15% profit for Sodexo and in looking at the rate sheet for this year, they still are about $1000 above market cost for a plan...not break even at all...they're making bank and Sodexo is helping them. My guess is TU pays Sodexo about $1000 less than the listed # of meals per week plans and Sodexo is making 10-15% profit on each plan or so. The losing proposition for schools in terms of dining plans are the Dining Dollars. Those are usually spent on a 1 to 1 basis and go from the school to the food vendor as such....there's a reason FR/SO can't get the dining dollars only option.
 
I would have liked to have people who receive the forgiveness be asked to enroll in a public works / AmericaCorps type civil service project for a day or two a month for a few years.

I think most people would be happy to do it.

While I think this is a good idea, now you're asking someone to oversee this type of program and administer it. Those individuals aren't volunteering their time to do that
I know you are mixing up federal and state money, but I think it would be a grand idea for a larger grant program to require a graduate teaching asst type of pay scale for highly educated people that will go on to high paying jobs, to spend a year teaching high school kids for a year. You could salvage a deteriorating education system that way, and give high school kids more specialized education opportunities in high school. I know the bureaucracy of doing this would be immense, but if done right, it could help college students cover the cost of education, and give back to the community in an invaluable way.
 
You cannot legislate around the greedy schemes of the academy. Trust me, way too many people have tried. There's a reason Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex and the academic research complex. And a reason the academics dont teach you the second part of the speech.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HuffyCane
FWIW, food and housing at TU is a break even proposition as we make TU more affordable. In England food and housing is largely endowed and at a low or no cost offering to students at the elite universities and schools like TU. Rather than giving huge sums to faculty to research and maybe teach one class a year, or a football stadium, charitable giving is provided to those in need of immediate help and society gets the benefit of more graduates. When I return to my Oxford college, meals are served with formal service, cloth napkins, and real sterling silver cutlery. Its typically a three course meal with choice of bread and dessert, as well as water and a glass of wine for approximately $6.50 US. The building has been there for almost 700 years. In the US we have donors give us money to build shiny new cafeterias every 20 years to set up the shake down scheme you describe above and make even more revenue. For all of their self-interested self righteous virtue seeking, there are some seriously twisted minds on college campuses. People need to start calling BS in ways other than not going to college.
Europe is so much better designed in many aspects of their funding of post secondary education. We should be looking at them as a guide.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HuffyCane
I know you are mixing up federal and state money, but I think it would be a grand idea for a larger grant program to require a graduate teaching asst type of pay scale for highly educated people that will go on to high paying jobs, to spend a year teaching high school kids for a year. You could salvage a deteriorating education system that way, and give high school kids more specialized education opportunities in high school. I know the bureaucracy of doing this would be immense, but if done right, it could help college students cover the cost of education, and give back to the community in an invaluable way.
They offer these programs. Nobody does it you would want teaching in a high school.
 
The point was more that ORU will award scholarships and need based grants but they only cover tuition. In ORU's case, it's fake money that is more like a tuition discount than it is an actual scholarship. They know by telling a kid they have a full tuition scholarship, they are likely to get the kid on campus only for the kid to find out that any outside scholarships they have will be applied to tuition first and then the amount of grants/scholarships from ORU is reduced...and that money cannot be applied to room & board. So the student is still on the hook for $20k + per year and a lot of it comes in the form of loans...which is actual cash inflow to ORU (to subsidize Billy's E21 ministry). Remember what I said about ORU's inflated dining costs...yeah most of that goes to operations and covering some of the faculty salaries where in an ideal university budget it would go all to non-academic related operational costs. And ORU requires 4 years of on campus residency. They used to justify it as being part of community in relationship with Jesus (and more to make sure they knew what you were doing and not engaging in any unChristian-like behavior) but now it's honestly a money grab. Most schools have a 1 or 2 year requirement related to student development objectives and research.

I know when I left TU, dining plans were hella expensive, probably $1000-$1200 above cost plus 10-15% profit for Sodexo and in looking at the rate sheet for this year, they still are about $1000 above market cost for a plan...not break even at all...they're making bank and Sodexo is helping them. My guess is TU pays Sodexo about $1000 less than the listed # of meals per week plans and Sodexo is making 10-15% profit on each plan or so. The losing proposition for schools in terms of dining plans are the Dining Dollars. Those are usually spent on a 1 to 1 basis and go from the school to the food vendor as such....there's a reason FR/SO can't get the dining dollars only option.
What we advertise, what we charge, and what we collect, is a fluid concept. TU does not make money off housing and dining. Sodexo might but TU does not. Whether that’s a good or bad thing depends on the criteria of your analysis. You can reach both conclusions. But you can’t reach the correct conclusion relying on your professional experience over the years or your time on the TU campus long ago. The landscape is different post Clancy.
 
Last edited:
They offer these programs. Nobody does it you would want teaching in a high school.
Yeah, it couldn't be a completely volunteer program. They would have to stipulate certain majors, and approve the person in an interview. And if you changed your major, the funding could disappear depending on your major. It would likely not be feasible due to the immense bureaucracy, and poor interviewing skills of those doing the interviews. That's probably why the program is not fully funded and utilized enough.
 
Yeah, it couldn't be a completely volunteer program. They would have to stipulate certain majors, and approve the person in an interview. And if you changed your major, the funding could disappear depending on your major. It would likely not be feasible due to the immense bureaucracy, and poor interviewing skills of those doing the interviews.
Florida is starting is a program to waive requirements for certain retiring veterans to teach without a certificate. It’s an interesting idea that is not feasible but would definitely help keep wages low and union membership down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gmoney4WW
but would definitely help keep wages low and union membership down.
And could provide wisdom and experience to the students. The veterans could provide great advice on all the things they did wrong and right in their careers.
 
Last edited:
Florida is starting is a program to waive requirements for certain retiring veterans to teach without a certificate. It’s an interesting idea that is not feasible but would definitely help keep wages low and union membership down.
Besides all the problems of bureaucracy, there would be half assed participation by those that signed up, strictly for the money they gained in their college education.

Those who fully participated and were engaged with giving the fullest value to the program, would probably be few and far between. Thus those people you referenced who you wouldn't want teaching in the limited program that does already exist. It's a utopian plan.
 
While I think this is a good idea, now you're asking someone to oversee this type of program and administer it. Those individuals aren't volunteering their time to do that
Agreed. It would cost some extra money, but the macroscopic benefit should (theoretically) outweigh the cost.
 
Florida is starting is a program to waive requirements for certain retiring veterans to teach without a certificate. It’s an interesting idea that is not feasible but would definitely help keep wages low and union membership down.
It’s a terrible idea. Florida is just formalizing the hiring of baby sitters. They’re not teachers.

Why is artificially keeping wages low and Union membership down inherently a good thing to you? I understand from a business stabdpoint That it makes sense, but from a logical one when it comes to educating children and providing fair compensation for under-appreciated work it does not.
 
Last edited:
It’s a terrible idea. Florida is just formalizing the hiring of baby sitters. They’re not teachers.

Why is artificially keeping wages low and Union membership down inherently a good thing to you? I understand from a business stabdpoint That it makes sense, but from a logical one when it comes to educating children and providing fair compensation for under-appreciated work it does not.
Ironically I have a friend (who also happens to be a vet) who will be teaching here in Tulsa this year. He’s never taught before and does not have a teaching degree. He will also be one of the best teachers in the city imo from day one.
 
Just waiting on my mortgage forgiveness
tii much gov interfereience. the people CHOSE to get a loan. my grand kids are in college now. no loans. they worked and saved. mom and dad saved. they earnrd small scholorships. the rest is pay as you go. why do they not get reimbursed for theIr good choices
 
tii much gov interfereience. the people CHOSE to get a loan. my grand kids are in college now. no loans. they worked and saved. mom and dad saved. they earnrd small scholorships. the rest is pay as you go. why do they not get reimbursed for theIr good choices
Do their choices include trade schools, community colleges, and/or small colleges like NSU?
 
Ironically I have a friend (who also happens to be a vet) who will be teaching here in Tulsa this year. He’s never taught before and does not have a teaching degree. He will also be one of the best teachers in the city imo from day one.
I am aware there are good teachers who are veterans. Just being a veteran does not make you a good teacher though. In fact the vast majority of vets would not make for good teachers. Many tend to be people who didn't value their education in school. Many more tend to approach children as though they are drill instructors. Those aren't inherently great traits to have as a teacher.

I knew the majority of the teachers at my mother's school and attended the same school. Veterans weren't the best teachers in the school nor were they anywhere close to the top. There was a decent one who was a Vietnam vet, but I think he was drafted, not a volunteer... and all of those types are retired. And even the bad to mediocre ones had gone through training. There were certainly a couple that were near worthless... and they even had certifications. I can't imagine the lack of quality you're going to get when you only need an associates level of education.

I had a former mechanized cavalry officer who started teaching AP Government after a long military career. He was Okay, but far from the best teacher I had, and it's not likely that you are going to get many participants with much better resumes.
 
Last edited:
I dislike the dismissal of the importance of educational training. Understanding child development and learning is important especially at younger ages.
 
In fact the vast majority of vets would not make for good teachers. Many tend to be people who didn't value their education in school. Many more tend to approach children as though they are drill instructors. Those aren't inherently great traits to have as a teacher.

Probably need more than anecdotes for an evidence-free assertion like this. Vets on average have a higher level of education than the general population and the majority of people in the military have what are essentially desk jobs (They're SOFT like Rippin). Literally nobody in the military acts like drill sgts except drill sgts
 
Getting back to loan waivers, I am particularly irritated. My daughter will start college in fall of 2023. Why no candy for me?
 
Getting back to loan waivers, I am particularly irritated. My daughter will start college in fall of 2023. Why no candy for me?
Because it’s not about you. It’s about bailing out a failed Democrat policy by giving Democrat operatives golden parachutes and sweetheart contracts. The policy behind it is just how it’s sold, not what is sold. It’s a grift. We are all being scammed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noble cane
Because it’s not about you. It’s about bailing out a failed Democrat policy by giving Democrat operatives golden parachutes and sweetheart contracts. The policy behind it is just how it’s sold, not what is sold. It’s a grift. We are all being scammed.
Maybe so, but it feels like a conspiracy theory. I generally feel very skeptical when these types of complex grift schemes are suggested. My life experience is that the simplest and most elegant possibility is usually the most likely one (not always certainly, just usually), and such an answer seems to be "he is buying votes."

That still does not give me my candy though. And you are right that my behavior is not tied to the candy.

I've never worked in politics though nor spent a lot of time with politicians.
 
Maybe so, but it feels like a conspiracy theory. I generally feel very skeptical when these types of complex grift schemes are suggested. My life experience is that the simplest and most elegant possibility is usually the most likely one (not always certainly, just usually), and such an answer seems to be "he is buying votes."

That still does not give me my candy though. And you are right that my behavior is not tied to the candy.

I've never worked in politics though nor spent a lot of time with politicians.
I’ve spent decades at the highest levels of federal and state politics. It’s true it’s a legal vote buying scheme. But so is most veterans benefits and social security. Single payer was too. Most federal programs are designed to reward one swing group or another. And I can assure you that experience has taught me that this is about a few hundred people getting rich off setting up the bureaucracy. And kicking a little bit, one way or another to The Big Guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noble cane
I’ve spent decades at the highest levels of federal and state politics. It’s true it’s a legal vote buying scheme. But so is most veterans benefits and social security. Single payer was too. Most federal programs are designed to reward one swing group or another. And I can assure you that experience has taught me that this is about a few hundred people getting rich off setting up the bureaucracy. And kicking a little bit, one way or another to The Big Guy.
All I can do is hope politics is not 100% pure cynicism, power and greed.

If it is, God help us all. Why bother voting? Or doing anything really, other than setting up a survivalist camp?
 
  • Like
Reactions: HuffyCane
It’s called your tax deduction. This is the least persuasive argument against student loan debt bail outs.

Student loan interest is also tax deductible. Had those too. Paid them off with no assistance. Have people with student loans even had to pay on them for the last two years?

All I’m asking for is a cool 10K to go along with my tax break
 
student loan giveaway, covid stimulas, mortgage morstorium, health insurance, gender education, welfate, . . not a fumction of the gov

taking care of wonded veterns, and police and firemen injured on the job. should be prioroty one for the gov.

just basic BS!
 
Last edited:
Student loan interest is also tax deductible. Had those too. Paid them off with no assistance. Have people with student loans even had to pay on them for the last two years?

All I’m asking for is a cool 10K to go along with my tax break
Esbe1AEXAAAq9mE.jpg:large
 
Student loan interest is also tax deductible. Had those too. Paid them off with no assistance. Have people with student loans even had to pay on them for the last two years?

All I’m asking for is a cool 10K to go along with my tax break
Only the first $2500 you paid in interest if you make less than $75,000 a year. That’s five months of interest payments for slightly less than half of the borrowers. The average homeowner, at least in 2005, claimed in excess of $10,000 in deduction. The amount Biden is forgiving. It’s twice that in California and New York. The homeowner also has typically purchased an appreciating asset, often with favorable interest rates, insurance, and home improvement incentives supported and paid for by federal programs at no charge to the homeowner. It’s the ultimate middle class welfare. And government supported self retirement fund to supplement social security.

The federal government has decided that it’s socially favorable for people to own homes and go to college and hopefully both. One program works. The other took advantage of most of these people intentionally. Many state governments began to realize this and got out of the business altogether, including, iirc, Oklahoma. That’s the difference.

FWIW, on a personal basis my views are more closely aligned with yours. But that’s not the right call here. I used to argue this stuff for large sums of money. But we can keep going.
 
Last edited:
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT