Student debt

[Gold*]

There are a lot of people who made idiotic decisions with student debt. I can’t tell you how many asset hearings I’ve done where someone had debt with University of Phoenix.

This is a complex issue. I would bar most for profit institutions first.

There is some usury that has taken place, but much of it had to do with the obscene price of these degrees. That would be priority two.

If we are going to have a discussion of paying student debt, it needs to include a means to pay for it that doesn’t increase educational cost or taxes. I’m not paying for someone’s bad decisions

All of this said, Atufan/ rivaldork sucks.

 

[aTUfan]

There are a lot of people who made idiotic decisions with student debt. I can’t tell you how many asset hearings I’ve done where someone had debt with University of Phoenix.

This is a complex issue. I would bar most for profit institutions first.

There is some usury that has taken place, but much of it had to do with the obscene price of these degrees. That would be priority two.

If we are going to have a discussion of paying student debt, it needs to include a means to pay for it that doesn’t increase educational cost or taxes. I’m not paying for someone’s bad decisions

All of this said, Atufan/ rivaldork sucks.

Nice act of UNITY.

 

[Gold*]

Nice act of UNITY.

The president wants unity. I don’t know if you realize this, but I’m not the president. I’m here to advocate that you play in traffic.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

There are those good Republicans, those good Democrats, and those good Independents who agree and disagree with each other often. Then there are those idiots. They are trinity when Rippin comes around.

 

[rivalcane]

Unless you have a state government with a brain that understands the best kids leave forever if the financial aid is better.

Look at Florida. You can work your way through no problem if you are even mildly interested in school. OR if your parents pre-paid through employer deductions. (And way too many barely scrape by partying in Gainesville or smoking pot on the beach at UCF without these benefits.)

Every kid in the state that makes a 3.0 in high school and a 26 ACT pays no more than $39 a credit hour so long as they do 75 hours of community service (your frat takes care of that) and maintain a 2.5.

YES! Earned. based on merit. Not just given.

 

[aTUfan]

The debt amount that Biden says you can wrote off should be counted as taxable income in the first year you file and owe taxes.

 

[astonmartin708]

The debt amount that Biden says you can wrote off should be counted as taxable income in the first year you file and owe taxes.

So should the income that billionaires use to bribe senators... but it's essentially not. So keep whining.

 

[aTUfan]

So should the income that billionaires use to bribe senators... but it's essentially not. So keep whining.

That would be people like Biden, Harris, Feinstein, boxer, schumer, Pelosi, shiff, Conyers, waters, aoc, hrc, gore, Kennedy, sanders, Warren,

 

[aTUfan]

this administration is all about reparations. I finished college 50years biden owes me too.

 

[aTUfan]

you go to college to learn skills so you can get a good job

But why do we need student loan canceled or even free college. when we have free gov health care, free monthly stipend, child daycare assIstance. housing allowance, ..

who needs a job?

 

[TUMe]

this administration is all about reparations. I finished college 50years biden owes me too.

That is odd, it only took me 4 years.

 

[lawpoke87]

‘Financially Hobbled for Life’: The Elite Master’s Degrees That Don’t Pay Off

Lured by the aura of degrees from top-flight institutions, many master’s students at universities across the U.S. took on debt beyond what their pay would support, an analysis of federal data on borrowers found.

www.wsj.com

 

[watu05]

The better educated our workforce is, the more competitive the US economy will be, and hopefully the better decisions the electorate will make. Getting rid of the bogus, for profit educational institutions such as Corinthian and ITT Tech that fed off of US student debt much of it given to vets helps.

 

[astonmartin708]

I still think the fairest and least economically taxing method to address the student loan debt problem is abolishing student loan interest on federally guaranteed loans. There’s no reason that our government should be profiting financially off of a program that already benefits the country by increases in productivity and innovation. And considering today’s interest rates, it’s ridiculous that I’m paying a higher interest rate on a loan that I will never be able to discharge in bankruptcy than I am for a car, a house, or my credit card. All I view student loans as are punishment for not being born into a wealthy family because I have to pay more for the same education than some people I knew did.

Getting rid of the interest would lower payments and / or allow people to pay the loans off in a more reasonable amount of time.

 

[aTUfan]

no student loan debt = 4 year party

 

[HuffyCane]

It’s a massive wealth transfer scheme from the middle class to the richest and poorest in our society.

 

[aTUfan]

no pay off without reciepts to show that the money really went to pay for education. not cars or vacations or tatoos,

also prorate the amount by gpa. and class type.

 

[astonmartin708]

no pay off without reciepts to show that the money really went to pay for education. not cars or vacations or tatoos,

also prorate the amount by gpa. and class type.

If you prorate it by GPA I’m bringing a lawsuit. The business majors didn’t have it nearly as difficult as the engineering majors in terms of course difficulty. All 4.0‘s are not created equally.

 

[aTUfan]

If you prorate it by GPA I’m bringing a lawsuit. The business majors didn’t have it nearly as difficult as the engineering majors in terms of course difficulty. All 4.0‘s are not created equally.

and subject matter.

 

[watu05]

The biggest problem with the student debt debate is that it is just another step in the Democratic scam. They created this mess trying to promise the middle class everything while handing their academic friends a blank check. Now that they have millions of supporters struggling to pay it back or feed their children, they scam continues.

The blank check went to the banks who made loans that couldn’t be removed in bankruptcy and colleges who raised educational prices at many multiples of real wage increases. Add in the private sector scammers like Phoenix, ITT, and Corinthian. It would have been much cheaper make community college free from the start, but that would have meant investing and even raising taxes. A non starter in the 70s with the war on.

 

[aTUfan]

so those that didnt accumulate a debt get screwed

 

[GoldenCaneKC]

so those that didnt accumulate a debt get screwed

Or those who did and already sacrificed to pay it off…

 

[aTUfan]

i want restitution!!

 

[watu05]

The goal was admirable: increase educational opportunities for kids. The mechanism was poorly implemented and was taken advantage of. Colleges raised tuition astronomically and built incredible, palatial facilities, banks and colleges pushed ultra safe loans, for profit universities scammed students and ex-military, and alternatives to debt financing a college education via working part time disappeared because wages didn't keep pace with costs. This ugly outcome had a lot of parents.

The question is what to do now. Blame a large part of several upcoming generations? Deny that the problems exist? Or work out a solution in Congress? Unfortunately this country is so polarized that Congress is frozen and people seemingly prefer accusations to solutions.

 

[HuffyCane]

The goal was admirable: increase educational opportunities for kids. The mechanism was poorly implemented and was taken advantage of. Colleges raised tuition astronomically and built incredible, palatial facilities, banks and colleges pushed ultra safe loans, for profit universities scammed students and ex-military, and alternatives to debt financing a college education via working part time disappeared because wages didn't keep pace with costs. This ugly outcome had a lot of parents.

The question is what to do now. Blame a large part of several upcoming generations? Deny that the problems exist? Or work out a solution in Congress? Unfortunately this country is so polarized that Congress is frozen and people seemingly prefer accusations to solutions.

Well sort of. What you really mean is that Clinton era Dems were vulnerable to middle class voter support. They were eager to win back Reagan Democrat voters. And were eager to buy that support with your money. And they craved the acceptance of Ivy League elites. At the exact time the academic industrial complex faced the exorbitant costs of retiring baby boomer professors with out of control pension and health care demands AND the need to retrofit campuses for cable tv/internet/digital phone lines. They couldn’t raise tuition high enough in a free marketplace to pay for that. So the federal government stepped in to respond to consumer demand while couching it in romantic notions of the American Dream and middle class relief. it was classic pork barrel spending, but the taxpayers paying for it were kids who have ended up paying banks or the government for it.

But Parents could suddenly start a business or go to Europe if their savings didn’t go to State U with Jr. That’s who is really to blame in all this. Not the kids who borrowed over their heads. The parents who were already over their heads with the cars and houses they bought and saw an easy way out having their kids borrow so they could get some breathing room on a retirement predicted to last twenty to thirty years longer than expected once everybody quit smoking.

So yeah. Don’t kid yourself. Helping kids was never the goal and there was nothing admirable about it. School administrators had bills to pay, couldn’t pay it, and got their banker friends to put pressure on Congress to fleece millions of taxpayers so Democrats could get elected. Now that it’s blown up, those same leaders are trying cover up what they did by claiming they are on your side.

What to do now? We could start with a confession by the Democratic Party that it was a failed policy, they are responsible, and shouldn’t be trusted to write off the debt to cover up their bloody hands while brazenly buying votes since their incompetence at everything else is causing a tidal wave of support into the center and right.

 

[HuffyCane]

I still think the fairest and least economically taxing method to address the student loan debt problem is abolishing student loan interest on federally guaranteed loans. There’s no reason that our government should be profiting financially off of a program that already benefits the country by increases in productivity and innovation. And considering today’s interest rates, it’s ridiculous that I’m paying a higher interest rate on a loan that I will never be able to discharge in bankruptcy than I am for a car, a house, or my credit card. All I view student loans as are punishment for not being born into a wealthy family because I have to pay more for the same education than some people I knew did.

Getting rid of the interest would lower payments and / or allow people to pay the loans off in a more reasonable amount of time.

Meh. Welcome to the middle class middle achievers club. If you were smarter, poorer, or richer, you likely would have borrowed nothing.

The interest rate problem only kicks the can. Allowing no interest loans is just as bad as the same amounts at 4% or whatever. You give tax deductions to induce behavior in many cases, especially the middle class. Have kids, buy a home, etc. You don’t want to incentivize this behavior anymore.

We could start by allowing kids to divert pre-tax dollars earned to student loan payments. Just like a 401k. It’s ridiculous you are taxed at 25 to 35%, then you turn around and give 10% or more of what’s left back in student repayments. Incentivize people to pay who owe and not just give up. Why the heck can someone divert pre-tax dollars to a pension or take a deduction on a home they can’t afford while they are in their twenties. Give them benefits that are useful and most will claw out. The rest was bad debt from the start. We have Democratic politicians and Republican bankers to blame for that.

 

[lawpoke87]

We allow (hell….encourage) teenagers to go six figures into debt without any in-depth financial counseling. What could possibly go wrong? The list of those at fault is lengthy and diverse.

 

[URedskin54]

If you were smarter, poorer, or richer, you likely would have borrowed nothing.

 

[URedskin54]

I'm sure it's changing under new management but up until recently it wasn't that hard to get school paid for at TU and stay debt free. I didn't even use my GI bill.

 

[HuffyCane]

I'm sure it's changing under new management but up until recently it wasn't that hard to get school paid for at TU and stay debt free. I didn't even use my GI bill.

For a number of students it is cheaper than OU.

 

[aTUfan]

not a function of the government.

 

[astonmartin708]

Meh. Welcome to the middle class middle achievers club. If you were smarter, poorer, or richer, you likely would have borrowed nothing.

The interest rate problem only kicks the can. Allowing no interest loans is just as bad as the same amounts at 4% or whatever. You give tax deductions to induce behavior in many cases, especially the middle class. Have kids, buy a home, etc. You don’t want to incentivize this behavior anymore.

We could start by allowing kids to divert pre-tax dollars earned to student loan payments. Just like a 401k. It’s ridiculous you are taxed at 25 to 35%, then you turn around and give 10% or more of what’s left back in student repayments. Incentivize people to pay who owe and not just give up. Why the heck can someone divert pre-tax dollars to a pension or take a deduction on a home they can’t afford while they are in their twenties. Give them benefits that are useful and most will claw out. The rest was bad debt from the start. We have Democratic politicians and Republican bankers to blame for that.

They already allow people to deduct the interest from their AGI. It’s not enough. Saves you maybe 2-300 dollars a year, when you have paid thousands in interest.

I don’t think we’re trying to prevent behavior. The behavior we want is people going to school. The only thing we need to prevent is the increasing volumes that people are necessitated to borrow. That means regulating the rates at which schools are allowed to pass on tuition increases to students, it doesn’t mean punishing the students more by limiting loan availability or making them pay unfair interest rates.

 

[HuffyCane]

They already allow people to deduct the interest from their AGI. It’s not enough. Saves you maybe 2-300 dollars a year, when you have paid thousands in interest.

I don’t think we’re trying to prevent behavior. The behavior we want is people going to school. The only thing we need to prevent is the increasing volumes that people are necessitated to borrow. That means regulating the rates at which schools are allowed to pass on tuition increases to students, it doesn’t mean punishing the students more by limiting loan availability or making them pay unfair interest rates.

Google Nixon wage and price controls and get back to us.

 

[astonmartin708]

Google Nixon wage and price controls and get back to us.

I know about Nixon’s price controls. The difference is that education doesn’t really have a supply constraint in the same way that labor or commodities do. Also, tuitiom inflation has been a problem long before this economic environment.

 

[lawpoke87]

I know about Nixon’s price controls. The difference is that education doesn’t really have a supply constraint in the same way that labor or commodities do. Also, tuitiom inflation has been a problem long before this economic environment.

I’m with Aston on this one. Not sure how it’s accomplished but lowering educational costs should be the initial focus. I’m also with Aston on lower interest rates on loans.

 

[astonmartin708]

Maybe we could, instead of capping tuition prices, instead tie them to CPI. Kind of like a COLA but for universities. For a long time they were quickly outpacing CPI.

 

[URedskin54]

If we want more people to go to college (maybe we do and maybe we don’t) and we want it to remain affordable, the constraint is going to be supply so long as college applications are on the rise. Price fixing won’t address that and will cause a whole new issue

 

[astonmartin708]

If we want more people to go to college (maybe we do and maybe we don’t) and we want it to remain affordable, the constraint is going to be supply so long as college applications are on the rise. Price fixing won’t address that and will cause a whole new issue

I think that we want a significant portion to go to college, though not all or even the majority. Colleges have entry requirements though so they are able to artificially put limits on demand. If you aren’t admitted you can’t buy.

 

[aTUfan]

still think they should have to submit receipts proving they spent it for education

 

[HuffyCane]

They are gonna love you guys in the faculty lounge, the landscaper's union break room, etc.

Sounds like you want to move to Germany where they tell everyone at 14 what they are good at, whether it is sports or school, and if you are not, you become a plumber or mechanic.