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Pray For Israel 🇮🇱 🙏

You lost me when you described 30k-40k soldiers as a “handful of terror cells”. Aside from your gross mischaracterization, I would hope most reasonable people would hope for peace in Gaza as well as Ukraine.
“soldiers”

There’s a difference between hoping for peace and hoping for human decency. Defending yourself from invasion is a valid reason for conflict. Yes I hope for peace, but I also don’t support inhumane unprovoked invasions. Nor do I support terror by Hamas or responsive genocide by Israel.
 
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“soldiers”
“Fighters”…that better. Doesn’t change your characterization of 30k-40k fighters being supplied with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of arms as well as training by Iran as “a handful of terror cells”.
 
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latest from Biden to Israel:

if you keep fighting we will not give you any more weapons.

if you quit fighting we will give you more weapons.
 
Can always count on the US to betray an ally. This one probably ranks high in dumb because cutting off shipments of precision weapons just means they will use less precise weapons, killing more Gaza civilians, the protection of whom I’m told is of higher importance than all other objectives.

Polling must have been getting really bad in Rashida Tlaib’s definitely not antisemitic district.
 
Even the NYT is criticizing Biden on this decision.

 
Can always count on the US to betray an ally. This one probably ranks high in dumb because cutting off shipments of precision weapons just means they will use less precise weapons, killing more Gaza civilians, the protection of whom I’m told is of higher importance than all other objectives.

Polling must have been getting really bad in Rashida Tlaib’s definitely not antisemitic district.
^ willing to overlook blowing up daycares in siege warfare but doesn’t care to send bullets to software engineers in trenches trying to slow down waves of invaders.

Par for the course.
 
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Ever considered that opinion pieces like that are being linked by the Russians for a reason?
Not in the New York Times. You sound more and more like a Hamas bot everyday. We’re now goikg after the NYTs because you don’t like an opinion piece.
 
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Greta Thunberg with a new way to save the climate.... get rid of the Jews.

 
Can always count on the US to betray an ally. This one probably ranks high in dumb because cutting off shipments of precision weapons just means they will use less precise weapons, killing more Gaza civilians, the protection of whom I’m told is of higher importance than all other objectives.

Polling must have been getting really bad in Rashida Tlaib’s definitely not antisemitic district.
Didnt a president get impeached for witholding or putting conditions on congressionally approved military aid?
 
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Not in the New York Times. You sound more and more like a Hamas bot everyday. We’re now goikg after the NYTs because you don’t like an opinion piece.
I’m not saying the Russians installed an opinion piece in the Times, I’m saying that they are supporting Hamas (which is partially why Hamas is refusing to capitulate) and it’s being done with the intent of driving right vs left divisions in the US and the rest of the western world.

They want us to fight about this.

I would love to see Hamas surrender and release any remaining hostages. I think their people have more than paid for their society’s criminal actions already. I also think that Netanyahu and his supporters (especially those here in the USA) are extremely gullible and continue to overreact and take the Russian bait which is exacerbating an already unfortunate situation.

Gaza is surrounded. Killing more women and children just to get at 30K fighters being supported by dictatorial backers is just going to create more terrorists in the region who hate Israel. This prolonged military action is doing much more harm than good to Israel and Jewish society who I personally revere. It’s also sowing division amongst us, the outside world.

This whole thing is Win-Win for Russia. They destabalize the region, turn Biden’s base against him because he sides with an ally, make the US split its military attentions for weapons supply, and give the left and right something to squabble about. All for a few dollars to a bunch of thugs hanging out in UAE.
 
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Didnt a president get impeached for witholding or putting conditions on congressionally approved military aid?
Because of concerns about misconduct and possible crimes committed by a U.S. national that were later proven to be well founded …
 
Because of concerns about misconduct and possible crimes committed by a U.S. national that were later proven to be well founded …
No it was because the President was using his powers of office to overtly help benefit his reelection campaign and to detriment his political opponent. It just so happened that he was doing it by threatening to withhold military aid in a conflict against the USA’s greatest historical adversary of the past 100 years….
 
As the NYTs piece points out, Biden is effectively supporting Hamas at this point by withholding arms from Israel. An action which will embolden the terrorist and likely result in more bloodshed as they now view the U.S. as supportive of their cause. This will do nothing but extend the war and cost more lives.

This war would be over tomorrow if Hamas would lay down their arms and release the hostages. Biden’s Middle East policy has been all over the place. Changing day to day based on his polling and what group he believes he is most needed in November. Policy based solely on a re-election campaign.

The support across this country and even on this board for a terrorist organization is unsettling. Suppose that’s where we are in 2024.
 
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^ willing to overlook blowing up daycares in siege warfare but doesn’t care to send bullets to software engineers in trenches trying to slow down waves of invaders.

Par for the course.
Have no idea what you’re referring to. I’m a fan of continuing to support Israel and Ukraine in killing their enemies in the manner they deem appropriate.
 
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No it was because the President was using his powers of office to overtly help benefit his reelection campaign and to detriment his political opponent. It just so happened that he was doing it by threatening to withhold military aid in a conflict against the USA’s greatest historical adversary of the past 100 years….
One could say that Biden is doing it to boost polling numbers in some districts in some battleground states..
 
As the NYTs piece points out, Biden is effectively supporting Hamas at this point by withholding arms from Israel. An action which will embolden the terrorist and likely result in more bloodshed as they now view the U.S. as supportive of their cause. This will do nothing but extend the war and cost more lives.

This war would be over tomorrow if Hamas would lay down their arms and release the hostages. Biden’s Middle East policy has been all over the place. Changing day to day based on his polling and what group he believes he is most needed in November. Policy based solely on a re-election campaign.

The support across this country and even on this board for a terrorist organization is unsettling. Suppose that’s where we are in 2024.
What’s really unsettling but not surprising is conservatives on this board and elsewhere using the unjustified deaths of < 1K innocents to justify the deaths of >30K innocents. I do believe the perpetrators of that action should be punished but not at the cost of thousands of innocents. Similar to 9/11. It’s just genocidal bloodlust, and it leads to conservative fundamentalists being taken advantage of politically….Like using it to justify the public support for the invasion of Iraq. You are laughably predictable.

Israel has more than enough weapons and capability to do whatever they want to a surrounded Gaza Strip. The US doesn’t need to donate to overkill. And before you say anything about targeted anything, the strikes with our “targeted” weapons have been rather indiscriminate at best and criminal at worst.
 
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What’s really unsettling but not surprising is conservatives on this board and elsewhere using the unjustified deaths of < 1K innocents to justify the deaths of >30K innocents. I do believe the perpetrators of that action should be punished but not at the cost of thousands of innocents. Similar to 9/11. It’s just genocidal bloodlust, and it leads to conservative fundamentalists being taken advantage of politically….Like using it to justify the public support for the invasion of Iraq. You are laughably predictable.

Israel has more than enough weapons and capability to do whatever they want to a surrounded Gaza Strip. The US doesn’t need to donate to overkill. And before you say anything about targeted anything, the strikes with our “targeted” weapons have been rather indiscriminate at best and criminal at worst.
Spewing more Hamas propaganda.

Everyone on this board as well as Hamas knew Hamas would never govern or operate in Gaza after Oct 7. The only question was would they fight to the very end or simply evacuate Gaza and save the people who had overwhelmingly supporting them. Sadly, Hamas chose the former. We all hate to see innocents killed in warfare. Lord knows we have enough of that going on in the world right now. Sadly, those who are signally support of Hamas at this point are simply prolonging the war (Biden). Those who continue to promote Hamas propaganda are obviously worse. The call should be for Hamas to exit Gaza and release the hostages. Save the innocent people living there and their homes.
 
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Hamas is the KKK. Palestines are White Supremists.

the pro palestine campus protesters are actually supporting Hamas, ie the KKK.
 
As the NYTs piece points out, Biden is effectively supporting Hamas at this point by withholding arms from Israel. An action which will embolden the terrorist and likely result in more bloodshed as they now view the U.S. as supportive of their cause. This will do nothing but extend the war and cost more lives.

This war would be over tomorrow if Hamas would lay down their arms and release the hostages. Biden’s Middle East policy has been all over the place. Changing day to day based on his polling and what group he believes he is most needed in November. Policy based solely on a re-election campaign.

The support across this country and even on this board for a terrorist organization is unsettling. Suppose that’s where we are in 2024.
The problem with Biden isn’t that he is withholding arms and aid to Israel in the middle of a conflict, Reagan famously did the same, as did others.

The problem is Biden isn’t doing it out of firm moral clarity, the behest of our allies, the wishes of a majority of Congress, or even the whining of the career diplomats in the State Department. He’s doing it at the behest of 100,000 voters in Michigan and a few hundred criminals organizing “protests” on college campuses.
 
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“but what about the German civilians!”

Where someone lays the blame for civilian deaths when a country is responding to aggressors and those aggressors do everything they can to maximize the deaths in their own civilian population is a fun tell
 
Spewing more Hamas propaganda.

Everyone on this board as well as Hamas knew Hamas would never govern or operate in Gaza after Oct 7. The only question was would they fight to the very end or simply evacuate Gaza and save the people who had overwhelmingly supporting them. Sadly, Hamas chose the former. We all hate to see innocents killed in warfare. Lord knows we have enough of that going on in the world right now. Sadly, those who are signally support of Hamas at this point are simply prolonging the war (Biden). Those who continue to promote Hamas propaganda are obviously worse. The call should be for Hamas to exit Gaza and release the hostages. Save the innocent people living there and their homes.
Predictable response. People like you are the reason why the USA is going to decline past our adversaries. You can’t help but act exactly as those who orchestrate these regional destabilizations hope you will.
 
“but what about the German civilians!”

Where someone lays the blame for civilian deaths when a country is responding to aggressors and those aggressors do everything they can to maximize the deaths in their own civilian population is a fun tell
Vastly disproportionate levels of injustice. Hell in both Judaism and Christianity they say the maximum response should be an eye for an eye (and less for Christianity)

I think it’s ludicrous that you would kill 10x children for the death of a single child. Same shenanigan arguments that were made for Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Vastly disproportionate levels of injustice. Hell in both Judaism and Christianity they say the maximum response should be an eye for an eye (and less for Christianity)

I think it’s ludicrous that you would kill 10x children for the death of a single child. Same shenanigan arguments that were made for Iraq and Afghanistan.
You really should spend a couple of years working in the eastern med/middle east. You might come away with a better understanding of the mentality that the israelis are up against. Failure by the israelis to finish this campaign will be seen as a victory for Hamas and a major propaganda coup. The Romans had to salt the plains of Carthage, we dropped the bomb, and the Israelis need to drive to Egypt.
 
Vastly disproportionate levels of injustice. Hell in both Judaism and Christianity they say the maximum response should be an eye for an eye (and less for Christianity)

I think it’s ludicrous that you would kill 10x children for the death of a single child. Same shenanigan arguments that were made for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Well you see in this scenario Hamas is responsible for the “injustice” in both directions. They knowingly and intentionally place non-combatants in harms way so they can hold up their dead kids for propaganda victories with people like you in the west. The argument you make is an argument to allow bad actors to commit atrocities indefinitely so long as they’re depraved enough to use their own children as shields.

I don’t believe the Torah or the New Testament pondered morality in asymmetric warfare between nation states but you never know. I’ll have catch up on some reading I guess.
 
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No it was because the President was using his powers of office to overtly help benefit his reelection campaign and to detriment his political opponent. It just so happened that he was doing it by threatening to withhold military aid in a conflict against the USA’s greatest historical adversary of the past 100 years….
The 80’s called Mitt, they want their foreign policy back.
 
What’s really unsettling but not surprising is conservatives on this board and elsewhere using the unjustified deaths of < 1K innocents to justify the deaths of >30K innocents. I do believe the perpetrators of that action should be punished but not at the cost of thousands of innocents. Similar to 9/11. It’s just genocidal bloodlust, and it leads to conservative fundamentalists being taken advantage of politically….Like using it to justify the public support for the invasion of Iraq. You are laughably predictable.

Israel has more than enough weapons and capability to do whatever they want to a surrounded Gaza Strip. The US doesn’t need to donate to overkill. And before you say anything about targeted anything, the strikes with our “targeted” weapons have been rather indiscriminate at best and criminal at worst.
Innocents? So you absolve a country’s inhabitants that install a democratically elected government that openly advocates the systematic elimination of the Jews from society culminating in their eradication?

If the inhabitants of Gaza are innocents, so were the German citizenry during Nazism.

Got it. Thanks. Check the mirror, your anti-Semitism is showing.
 
Innocents? So you absolve a country’s inhabitants that install a democratically elected government that openly advocates the systematic elimination of the Jews from society culminating in their eradication?

If the inhabitants of Gaza are innocents, so were the German citizenry during Nazism.

Got it. Thanks. Check the mirror, your anti-Semitism is showing.
I have no discontent towards the Jewish people. In fact you can go **** yourself for saying so. My mother had a long and lasting relationship with a kind Jewish man whose parents were both in concentration camps…. Betrayed to the gestapo by a corrupt family member. Their son was hidden in a monastery and had other little Jewish kids die in his arms of starvation.

Through some miracle that family survived the Holocaust. And reunited. Later in life that boy grew up and he hunted Nazi war criminals around the world for the US military. My mom met him later and traveled multiple times in Germany with him where he did business for Dow Chemical. There were times when she had to suffer hate from literal ex-nazis for being with a Jewish man. She met his parents who still had the tattoos on their arms. .

That man developed a relationship with me as a child and even though I wasn’t his blood relative he was like a father to me. He and his family are some of the most revered people in my life.

I don’t hate Jews. I hate people like you who spread opportunistic political messages of hate to promote genocidal ideas that see families destroyed and childrens’ lives wasted. I fully believe in the rights of the Jewish people to defend themselves, seek justice for crimes against them, and live in peace. What is happening today goes beyond that.

Have anything else you want to say you no good piece of trash?
 
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I don’t hate Jews. I hate people like you who spread opportunistic political messages of hate to promote genocidal ideas that see families destroyed and children’s lives wasted. I fully believe in the rights of the Jewish people to defend themselves, seek justice for crimes against them, and live in peace. That is not what’s happening right now.
I don’t know whether you hate Jews or not. I would give you the benefit of the doubt even though you haven’t in the past been shy with accusing posters of racist beliefs. You have written post after post repeating propaganda and supporting a group who openly supports the genocide of the Jewish race. It’s a very bad look whatever your motives might be.
 
I don’t know whether you hate Jews or not. I would give you the benefit of the doubt even though you haven’t in the past been shy with accusing posters of racist beliefs. You have written post after post repeating propaganda and supporting a group who openly supports the genocide of the Jewish race. It’s a very bad look whatever your motives might be.
You consider anything not towing the party line to be propaganda or support of Hamas. Personally I loathe Hamas. I think they are currently acting as a Russian / Iranian agitator and they’re doing so to the detriment of the lives of their countrymen. They are being used as a pawn in a much larger geopolitical chess match between the East and West.

I do believe that they hate Israel and many of their people support that hate…. But the Israeli government isn’t doing itself any favors in earning goodwill. I don’t see as a Gaza Palestinian why you wouldn’t be upset with Netanyahu as he hasn’t given those people any reason to not hate him. And so it becomes a vicious cycle of atrocity on both sides. You kill 10 of our people so we kill 100 of yours and so on, and so on, and so on….

At some point one side has to break the cycle of needless violence. Similar to the troubles in Ireland. The only winners are the people profiteering off of death. What I argue is that Israel needs to see that Hamas is what you would call in chess a poison pawn. They are a baited trap used to keep friction between Israel and the wider Arab nations.

Those people (even if they are a minority in Gaza) who wish to seek peace and choose to not quarrel with their neighbors, should be spared. Those people who do wish to quarrel can continue to be punished… but retribution does not have to be so swift that innocents get caught in the crossfire, especially at the scale we are currently seeing. And innocents should most certainly not be made targets by Hamas or the IDF. That is what we have seen reported from both sides to this point and both sides have bias.
 
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You consider anything not towing the party line to be propaganda or support of Hamas. Personally I loathe Hamas. I think they are currently acting as a Russian / Iranian agitator and they’re doing so to the detriment of the lives of their countrymen. They are being used as a pawn in a much larger geopolitical chess match between the East and West.

I do believe that they hate Israel and many of their people support that hate…. But the Israeli government isn’t doing itself any favors in earning goodwill. I don’t see as a Gaza Palestinian why you wouldn’t be upset with Netanyahu as he hasn’t given those people any reason to not hate him. And so it becomes a vicious cycle of atrocity on both sides. You kill 10 of our people so we kill 100 of yours and so on, and so on, and so on….

At some point one side has to break the cycle of needless violence. Similar to the troubles in Ireland. The only winners are the people profiteering off of death. What I argue is that Israel needs to see that Hamas is what you would call in chess a poison pawn. They are a baited trap used to keep friction between Israel and the wider Arab nations.

Those people (even if they are a minority in Gaza) who wish to seek peace and choose to not quarrel with their neighbors, should be spared. Those people who do wish to quarrel can continue to be punished… but retribution does not have to be so swift that innocents get caught in the crossfire, especially at the scale we are currently seeing. And innocents should most certainly not be made targets by Hamas or the IDF. That is what we have seen reported from both sides to this point and both sides have bias.
I have had this post up for a about a day and a half to two days, editing it, and debating on when to post it, or not.

Now seems appropriate on the when issue:

I have a problem with what Israel is doing. Simply because it really doesn't work. If Israel kills almost every bit of Hamas, it will give rise to another Terrorist organization just as bad or worse than Hamas, to take their place. Hamas was just as bad as the PLO. The new organization will be just as bad as Hamas. There was virtually nothing accomplished by replacing the PLO with Hamas. That's about what will be accomplished by replacing Hamas with another organization.

So Israel will suffer all this bad will by the Gazans for nothing. That's the problem with an organization like Hamas, you can't really win the war through force. Diplomacy doesn't work very well, but it at least does SOME good,(not a lot though) over a ridiculously inordinate amount of time. About the only way you can do anything on the battlefield is through long range strikes, based on intelligence. That way you know civilian casualties will be limited. But that never wins the war.

If Israel could kill off the majority of Hamas, and bring a lasting peace through the deaths of 50,000 civilians, it would be worth considering. But it just doesn't work that way. This will accomplish nothing, relating to peace. It will just embitter the next generations of Gazans. This just continues the process indefinitely.
 
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I have had this post up for a about a day and a half to two days, editing it, and debating on when to post it, or not.

Now seems appropriate on the when issue:

I have a problem with what Israel is doing. Simply because it really doesn't work. If Israel kills almost every bit of Hamas, it will give rise to another Terrorist organization just as bad or worse than Hamas, to take their place. Hamas was just as bad as the PLO. The new organization will be just as bad as Hamas. There was virtually nothing accomplished by replacing the PLO with Hamas. That's about what will be accomplished by replacing Hamas with another organization.

So Israel will suffer all this bad will by the Gazans for nothing. That's the problem with an organization like Hamas, you can't really win the war through force. Diplomacy doesn't work very well, but it at least does SOME good,(not a lot though) over a ridiculously inordinate amount of time. About the only way you can do anything on the battlefield is through long range strikes, based on intelligence. That way you know civilian casualties will be limited. But that never wins the war.

If Israel could kill off the majority of Hamas, and bring a lasting peace through the deaths of 50,000 civilians, it would be worth considering. But it just doesn't work that way. This will accomplish nothing relating to peace. It will just embitter the next generations of Gazans. This just continues the process indefinitely.
Hamas doctrine is the total genocide of Jews. This doctrine has been in place for years and is shared by many of the countries in the Middle East. Israel provokes them with its mere existence.

Imagine if Putin armed and trained 40k fighters and placed them at the Mexican border. People with the goal if killing every American alive. These Russian backed fighters had an extensive tunnel network into the U.S. and frequently fired rockets toward Houston. Then with Putin suppled intelligence they attacked the citizens of Houston killing over 1000. What would be the reaction of the U.S.? My hypothetical is likely rather silly as I doubt the U.S. would allow such a Russian backed armed group at our border to begin with.

Anyway…here’s an article on the doctrine of Hamas back from I believe the 1980s. I simple don’t see how any country could allow such a group next to its border after the attack of Oct 7. Only a matter of time until history repeats itself there if Hamas is continued to be allowed to govern Gaza. Remember…the people of Gaza overwhelming supports Hamas as well as the Oct 7 massacre.

Saddens me we have people in the country and on this board supporting a group with these goals.

 
Hamas doctrine is the total genocide of Jews. This doctrine has been in place for years and is shared by many of the countries in the Middle East. Israel provokes them with its mere existence.

Imagine if Putin armed and trained 40k fighters and placed them at the Mexican border. People with the goal if killing every American alive. These Russian backed fighters had an extensive tunnel network into the U.S. and frequently fired rockets toward Houston. Then with Putin suppled intelligence they attacked the citizens of Houston killing over 1000. What would be the reaction of the U.S.? My hypothetical is likely rather silly as I doubt the U.S. would allow such a Russian backed armed group at our border to begin with.

Anyway…here’s an article on the doctrine of Hamas back from I believe the 1980s. I simple don’t see how any country could allow such a group next to its border after the attack of Oct 7. Only a matter of time until history repeats itself there if Hamas is continued to be allowed to govern Gaza.

I'm not denying Hamas' genocidal ideology. I am saying the PLO wasn't much better, and the organization that replaces Hamas will likely be as bad or worse. When you kill this many civilians, no matter how justified your are or aren't, it brings about something bad amongst the civilian population that you did these atrocities to. (especially in the Middle East with civilizations being so backwards) I'm looking at the results of these actions, not whether they are justified. You just can't stop that from happening with military actions like this. Those kind of actions are a direct cause of something like this happening.

I think their actions up until today are justified to a certain extent, because you have to have a deterrent to Hamas doing the October attack every few years and thinking they can get away with it. But that only works if losing 20-30k civilian lives is a deterrent to Hamas, or if they just don't care that so many lives of the people 'they are fighting for' are expendable, or matter to them. They might see it as a acceptable sacrifice, and do it again. But you have to do it at least once, to see if it stops Hamas from doing this again, in the near future.

This kind of calculus is repulsive, but necessary in light of hamas' actions and ideologies.
 
Hamas doctrine is the total genocide of Jews. This doctrine has been in place for years and is shared by many of the countries in the Middle East. Israel provokes them with its mere existence.

Imagine if Putin armed and trained 40k fighters and placed them at the Mexican border. People with the goal if killing every American alive. These Russian backed fighters had an extensive tunnel network into the U.S. and frequently fired rockets toward Houston. Then with Putin suppled intelligence they attacked the citizens of Houston killing over 1000. What would be the reaction of the U.S.? My hypothetical is likely rather silly as I doubt the U.S. would allow such a Russian backed armed group at our border to begin with.

Anyway…here’s an article on the doctrine of Hamas back from I believe the 1980s. I simple don’t see how any country could allow such a group next to its border after the attack of Oct 7. Only a matter of time until history repeats itself there if Hamas is continued to be allowed to govern Gaza. Remember…the people of Gaza overwhelming supports Hamas as well as the Oct 7 massacre.

Saddens me we have people in the country and on this board supporting a group with these goals.

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why these people are so suicidally hateful to the Israelis? I’m not saying you have to agree with it…. But it’s hard to achieve peace without understanding the core issues.
 
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