Our President shows his toughness.
- Thread starter TUMe
- Start date
This isn't exactly what I was afraid of, but it does the same thing. I was afraid of stipulations in our sanctions, but he is making stipulations in applying the sanctions.
I think Putin has received more pushback than he would have in alternate circumstances.
No significant penalties to speak of.
Nordstrom2 was Germany’s call and was announced by them this am. We will see how long that lasts btw
None of Russia’s major banks are affected by the sanctions….oddly enough
Most rich Russians have removed the majority of their assets away from US control long before today
Nordstrom2 was Germany’s call and was announced by them this am. We will see how long that lasts btw
None of Russia’s major banks are affected by the sanctions….oddly enough
Most rich Russians have removed the majority of their assets away from US control long before today
I you preemptively sanction it’s just a sunk cost for further actions. No different than punishing a kid for something they haven’t done. They will just get in more trouble later (partially out of spite and partially out of the idea that they’ve already been punished)
Or you can impose what amounts to nothing. Call them our sanctions and look the other way while Putin expands his borders. Being weak is no way to deal with a man like Putin but here we are. Which explains why he is on the move. This won’t stop until we take a stand.
Can't remember the names because I was distracted while driving. But NPR reported this morning, several of Bidens close confidants, urging him to act on the sanctions earlier. But I'm sure astro knows better.
Some thoughts for the next president, whenever that is.:
Don't make promises on what you will do on your first day in office.
Don't shut down things you need before which you have no replacement for.
Don't allow yourself to be to be dependent on a 70-year enemy.
Don't spend money on things and then double down when inflation explodes.
Global warming is a long-term goal. Global warming is not something that can be fixed before you know the way to the restroom.
Bonus suggestion don't pick a vice president on the basis that they are worse than you so you won't be removed.
Don't make promises on what you will do on your first day in office.
Don't shut down things you need before which you have no replacement for.
Don't allow yourself to be to be dependent on a 70-year enemy.
Don't spend money on things and then double down when inflation explodes.
Global warming is a long-term goal. Global warming is not something that can be fixed before you know the way to the restroom.
Bonus suggestion don't pick a vice president on the basis that they are worse than you so you won't be removed.
people didnt like trump because he was an a-hole, but that had no affect on my life.
Biden ran on im not trump, and he is not, but he has sure screwed everthing up.
Biden ran on im not trump, and he is not, but he has sure screwed everthing up.
It will have zero immediate effect on Putin and Russia as it wasn’t operation. Now maybe longterm effects…yes. Assuming Germany doesn’t cave due to energy shortages. Do the natural resources Putin is acquiring in the Ukraine outweigh not being able to sell some gas to Germany….probably. The other sanctions also have very little immediate effect on Russia. He will still sell his oil. China will assist wherever it can. Sanctions will have to become much more severe to have any serious effect on Putin.
Expect more deals like this. Putin isn’t dumb. Saw this coming and has planned accordingly.
amp.scmp.com
China, Russia enhance ‘growing energy partnership’ with gas deal
President Xi Jinping met with Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on Friday in Beijing ahead of the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics, with a new gas deal confirmed among a series of agreements.
amp.scmp.com
It will have little immediate effect on Russia. But Russia is very much aware of the long game. Heck they’ve been planning Ukraine for more than 10 years.
Ahh. Took your response as disagreeing that Nord would have little immediate effect. Yes, Putin has been planning for Ukraine for years. Likely the other former Soviet states as well. One reason he is now entering energy agreements with the Chinese. I assume he has prepared and taken precautions against any sanctions as well. He had to know they were coming
There is plenty of discussion to be had about the best response, but I'm not seeing a lot of that from the dissent. It's almost all "Biden no do good" and little, if any discussion of viable alternatives. My favorite thing about Biden might be that that he's largely irrelevant in my daily life (I can go weeks without thinking about him! High praise for a politician in my book), but what is he supposed to do here?
Options:
1) Pat Putin on the head and tell him good job;
2) Sternly worded letter;
3) Political support for Ukraine;
4) Arm Ukraine;
5) Some sanctions now, reserve additional sanctions to dissuade escalation;
6) More military support (advanced weapons, training, advisors, etc.);
7) Sanction everything;
8) Send in troops;
That's basically it. Biden went with a combo of 2 - 5, and reserving 6 + 7.
Sanctions are often a two way street - many EU nations won't go for full sanctions at this point, they need Russian gas. The financial sector (largely Wall Street and London, some German) don't want full financial sanctions against Russia. The American (and EU, and NATO) stomach for sending in troops is really weak. Realistically, the break away Republics are probably gone (because the West isn't going to send troops), the rest of Ukraine (and Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, and the rest of the "Sudetenland") is still a concern.
So, what's the move?
Options:
1) Pat Putin on the head and tell him good job;
2) Sternly worded letter;
3) Political support for Ukraine;
4) Arm Ukraine;
5) Some sanctions now, reserve additional sanctions to dissuade escalation;
6) More military support (advanced weapons, training, advisors, etc.);
7) Sanction everything;
8) Send in troops;
That's basically it. Biden went with a combo of 2 - 5, and reserving 6 + 7.
Sanctions are often a two way street - many EU nations won't go for full sanctions at this point, they need Russian gas. The financial sector (largely Wall Street and London, some German) don't want full financial sanctions against Russia. The American (and EU, and NATO) stomach for sending in troops is really weak. Realistically, the break away Republics are probably gone (because the West isn't going to send troops), the rest of Ukraine (and Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, and the rest of the "Sudetenland") is still a concern.
So, what's the move?
I would argue irrelevancy is not necessarily a good thing in times of economic and foreign policy crisis. That said, during good times I absolutely agree.
Agree with the sanction discussion. The problem is once you’ve threatened “crippling sanctions” upon invasion there has to be crippling sanctions. If not you lose credibility. A quality needed during times like this.
Agreed, my statement about irrelevancy is somewhat hyperbole. However, on the economic front I'm fairly conservatives, The President should have little to do with it, directly. Absent an absolute melt down he should not be pressuring the Fed regarding rates, telling the Treasury to alter its holdings, or instituting price controls (or for that matter talking up this stock or that, threatening industries or companies, playing brinksmanship with debt default). Also, handing out cash shouldn't be a fairly regular thing we need to do. In short - pumping up or otherwise manipulating the market isn't a long term plan. We have institutions in place where adults can make economic decisions; it isn't perfect, but it's better than handing direct control to politicians (see, e.g., everywhere that's tried that).
And I agree re the statement about invasion. I think one of Obama's biggest failings was giving the bright line re Syria then kind of shrugging it off. Here, one could argue the messaging was not clear, but I don't think Biden could come out and publicly say "you can invade these parts of Ukraine, the line is here." Even if he could/should have, it still doesn't address the present situation; if we shoot our entire clip now we don't really have any more ammo (we are willing to shoot). He hasn't been irrelevant in this situation, he's been ringing the alarm bell, transferring troops and equipment, and working with allies for weeks (even as some people were mocking him as an alarmist). That doesn't mean you need to think his actions were proper or successful, but he wasn't asleep at the wheel.
It is, begrudgingly, well played brinksmanship by Putin. The bully usually has the upper hand in brinksmanship because they often don't really care if it goes south. At this point, I think we have to hope the sanctions (and Ukrainians) make it a long term losing move for him.
I'm not sure Putin actually has any real loyalties. If you've seen how he treats his ministers, you would know that he answers to no one for his decisions or his viewpoints.
I assume Biden announces:
1). Removing Russia from SWIFT
2). Some type of embargo on trade
Given the time Putin’s had to prepare, I’m not sure there’s anything else which will have any type of immediate impact. Biden promised crippling sanctions. Let’s see what he’s got.
1). Removing Russia from SWIFT
2). Some type of embargo on trade
Given the time Putin’s had to prepare, I’m not sure there’s anything else which will have any type of immediate impact. Biden promised crippling sanctions. Let’s see what he’s got.
I still can’t wrap my head around Putin’s real motivation, other than maybe the intention to fully reinstate the USSR and act as a Stalin, Krushchev type.
He has a unique strategy of lying with no intent of being taken seriously. Everyone knows that he’s lying and he doesn’t care. For example his repeated lies regarding not changing the Russian constitution. Same goes for his troop build up outside Ukraine. I think it might be his downfall. He’s reliably unreliable. That’s a fault that might be exploited.
He has a unique strategy of lying with no intent of being taken seriously. Everyone knows that he’s lying and he doesn’t care. For example his repeated lies regarding not changing the Russian constitution. Same goes for his troop build up outside Ukraine. I think it might be his downfall. He’s reliably unreliable. That’s a fault that might be exploited.
I believe bringing back those ex soviet states into the fold is a good guess.
When there is no fear of the consequences from lying or one’s actions there is no deterrent not to do the same.
No one provided Ukraine with any type of defensive weapons which would have given Putin pause. The sanctions announced to date have little immediate significant effect on Putin. He’s been planning on this day for years. SWIFT and trade embargo would be about the only items to get his attention. He aligned himself with China well ahead of this invasion. The world has changed. The US and Europe better change with it. Putin and Xi aren’t playing.
When there is no fear of the consequences from lying or one’s actions there is no deterrent not to do the same.
No one provided Ukraine with any type of defensive weapons which would have given Putin pause. The sanctions announced to date have little immediate significant effect on Putin. He’s been planning on this day for years. SWIFT and trade embargo would be about the only items to get his attention. He aligned himself with China well ahead of this invasion. The world has changed. The US and Europe better change with it. Putin and Xi aren’t playing.
I don’t think defensive weapons exist in such donateable numbers that would have given putin pause other than nuclear weapons… but if we had installed nukes it would have been a reverse Cuban Missile crisis which could have ended in catastrophe.
Biden's presentation had some reasonable statements and a couple of goofy ones. Let's get the goofy ones out of the way first.
1. Come back in a month. How would you like to spend a Winter month in Northern Europe without heat? That dog won't hunt. Try a week maybe.
2. In a typical Biden statement he said he would be standing in a street in Russia? What did that mean.
Real discussion:
Positive talk. Good, if the period can be kept short and he stays on topic. He did seem to be clearer headed than usual. If possible we should try to provide some fuel relief. Perhaps bring back some federal lands. Time might be a problem.
I give his points a C+. Two weeks maybe. Hopefully Europe has some heals in their storage tanks.
1. Come back in a month. How would you like to spend a Winter month in Northern Europe without heat? That dog won't hunt. Try a week maybe.
2. In a typical Biden statement he said he would be standing in a street in Russia? What did that mean.
Real discussion:
Positive talk. Good, if the period can be kept short and he stays on topic. He did seem to be clearer headed than usual. If possible we should try to provide some fuel relief. Perhaps bring back some federal lands. Time might be a problem.
I give his points a C+. Two weeks maybe. Hopefully Europe has some heals in their storage tanks.
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