NCAA Selection Show

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

I agree that the at-large system is set up to favor P5 schools. However, 38 of the 68 teams are non-P5 schools. Everyone needs to remember what is happening in football. If the system shifted to favoring non-P5 more, the P5 schools would break away from the NCAA and do their own deal.

 

[Barlass]

Re: Selection Show

Kansas is scared to play in Wichita. It's as simple as that. They don't want to lose to their little brother so they just don't play them. Very cool for Wichita to get a chance to beat KU this weekend just like they did in the '81 tourney.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

Do you see WSU on national tv a lot? Do you see WSU playing a lot of elite national programs? They need to play KU and similar programs to maintain what they have done the past few years. Or consistently do damage in the tournament. Otherwise, when Baker and VanVleet leave, they will be right back to a good but largely irrelevant program.

 

[TulsaEye]

Re: Selection Show

I think everyone knows there has always been an East and West coast bias. But it now appears there is also a ratings bias. Ratings will trump body of work. At one time the networks didn't have a lot of power in the choosing process. I think that has changed in the last 5 years. The networks appear to increased their say in who goes into the Dance. Opinion yes, but I can only go by what I see and that is what I see. The situation is rapidly turning into a classic abuse of monopoly power. In college football the situation is almost as bad as it can get. The G5 is limited to one position. It is now happening at a rapidly accelerating rate in college basketball. You are seeing P5 get the bias chosen bid over teams outside the P5. If the pattern continues you will see all teams outside the P5 be relegated to the NIT. Those who acquire monopoly power almost always it their own advantage weather it is economic or organizational influence. This not something that just happens.



This post was edited on 3/15 7:36 PM by TulsaEye

 

[URedskin54]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
Do you see WSU on national tv a lot? Do you see WSU playing a lot of elite national programs? They need to play KU and similar programs to maintain what they have done the past few years. Or consistently do damage in the tournament. Otherwise, when Baker and VanVleet leave, they will be right back to a good but largely irrelevant program.

I think they've kind of proven they don't need it. And if they did they probably would have already jumped at the 2-1

 

[TulsaAM]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
I agree that the at-large system is set up to favor P5 schools. However, 38 of the 68 teams are non-P5 schools. Everyone needs to remember what is happening in football. If the system shifted to favoring non-P5 more, the P5 schools would break away from the NCAA and do their own deal.

Those 38 are a token to keep the government out of the NCAA's business. The auto qualifiers from the North Eastern Small Schools No One Has Ever Heard Of Conferences are just cannon fodder and we all know it. But if they weren't included the NCAA would be in Federal Court in a heart beat.

Having said that, Tulsa had no chance given the OUR and SEOSU defeats and the UCONN blowout when everyone was sick. The chances were there, but it just didn't happen. I still love this team, all of them!

 

[I.I.]

Re: Selection Show


Palm missed one UCLA..he did not have them in. Lunardi missed two. He had Temple and Colorado State in instead of Indiana and UCLA. No one had UCLA in except those AD's on the committee.

 

[UofMemphisAlum]

Re: Selection Show

I am really sad that you guys did not make the tournament. You deserved it for sure in my opinion.

Also sad for our league that two schools were ripped off (Temple as well).

 

[loca2874]

The American is now the CUSA's A conference

 

[mcane]

All of the US outside of Westwood
will be rooting against the Bruins
Texas was arguable. Did UT beat KU?
Temple did. Really a head scratcher.
Could the OU AD have been the reason?
I hope the Committee members get hell
for UCLA. And I hope the Bruins lose.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

Sure. The team that has had the #1 strength of schedule three of the last four years is scared of Wichita St. Makes sense.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

The P5 schools can just split off and have their own tournament and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. That would be the end of Gonzaga, Wichita St, Tulsa. It may happen anyway but it will definitely happen if the tournament starts being 2/3 non-P5.

 

[Tulsafanzz]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
The P5 schools can just split off and have their own tournament and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. That would be the end of Gonzaga, Wichita St, Tulsa. It may happen anyway but it will definitely happen if the tournament starts being 2/3 non-P5

The NCAA tourney has very much been about Cinderella teams. That has been a key to it's huge growth that started with Larry Bird's Indiana State run in 1979.

Your Power 5 bully argument may make KU fans feel good about themselves, but it really only works in football. I think it's bogus for basketball. The NCAA tourney would lose too many fans.

This post was edited on 3/15 11:35 PM by Tulsafanzz

 

[TU_BLA]

Fanzz, I agree but the Cinderella teams started well before Indiana St. How about the Texas Western team that beat Kentucky? I'm sure there are others than can be mentioned as well. Everyone knows anyone watching the tournaments first 2 weekend are watching for the upsets except fans of the schools involved. And the tournament is always best when a team like Butler or George Mason make the Final Four.

 

[Tulsafanzz]

The "modern era" & the huge national TV ratings growth of the NCAA tournament started with Magic & Bird in 1979.

 

[TU1NNJ]

Re: Selection Show

Sports are suppose to be about play on the field and the compitition to see who is the best on that particular day. The P5 remind me of the kid who has the new ball. He/she may or may not be the best player but they will dictate when and where to play and stack the odds in their favor to try to create an illusion that they are better than they may be. If they don't get their way then they will threaten to take their ball and go home.

Sure some clearly are better but many ride the coattails of a few. Regardless none want to play on a level field.

It interesting that this approach comes from institutions that talk about integrity and go to great lengths to create programs within their university to create fairness. They also have anti-bullying policies!!!

This post was edited on 3/16 7:49 AM by TU1NNJ

This post was edited on 3/16 7:51 AM by TU1NNJ

 

[noble cane]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
The P5 schools can just split off and have their own tournament and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. That would be the end of Gonzaga, Wichita St, Tulsa. It may happen anyway but it will definitely happen if the tournament starts being 2/3 non-P5.

I guess we should just enjoy our seats in the back of the bus... after all its the same water in both fountains...

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
The P5 schools can just split off and have their own tournament and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. That would be the end of Gonzaga, Wichita St, Tulsa. It may happen anyway but it will definitely happen if the tournament starts being 2/3 non-P5.

You are such a delight.

Any yep, fans that have no skin in the game for either team think KU is cowardly.

 

[youngblood223]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by TUBballJunkie:

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
The P5 schools can just split off and have their own tournament and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. That would be the end of Gonzaga, Wichita St, Tulsa. It may happen anyway but it will definitely happen if the tournament starts being 2/3 non-P5.

You are such a delight.

Any yep, fans that have no skin in the game for either team think KU is cowardly.

College basketball would plummet in popularity if that happened. There is also the issue of contracts, they're not going anywhere.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

First, if you are talking about tv contracts, those are between CBS and the NCAA for the tournament and the various networks and the conferences. Those will not be impacted by a split. If you are talking about contracts between teams for games, those are generally only made for the next two+ years in basketball and not 5+ years out like in football.

Second, I have attached a link from cbs sports that includes an anonymous survey of DI college basketball coaches regarding whether a P5 split will happen in the next 10 years - 69% believe it will. I prefer for the system to stay the way it is but the P5 group has all the power and (a) they do not like the NCAA and (b) they do not like sharing the money with programs that they believe are not helping to create the product (the low majors particularly).

Third, I am sure everyone thinks KU is scared of Wichita St. KU plays either Kentucky, Duke or Michigan St. every year. KU has played home and homes with Ohio St., Florida, Georgetown, Kentucky, UCLA over the last 7 years. KU has had the #1 strength of schedule three of the past four years. KU's scheduling is very easy to follow. KU plays in the Champions Classic. They play in an early season tournament. They play 3 or 4 one-game series with a solid mid-major/low-majors at home, and they play two road games against elite teams or in an area where we recruit. Playing Wichita St under the scenario they demand does not fit. We do not need to play in Wichita to recruit there. We would have to give up several home games under their demand which does not fit within our athletic budget. We can schedule more attractive teams for tv for home/home games. Also, Kansas fans could not care less about playing Wichita St. It is not like Missouri where a large portion of our fans want the series to start up again. If Wichita wants to play KU, they can play at Allen Fieldhouse. San Diego St is every bit the program WSU is and they agreed to a one-game series in Lawrence and they won. Maybe the question is what is WSU afraid of.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24662085/candid-coaches-will-power-conferences-in-college-hoops-leave-the-ncaa

 

[TU_BLA]

Re: Selection Show

Third, I am sure everyone thinks KU is scared of Wichita St. KU plays either Kentucky, Duke or Michigan St. every year. KU has played home and homes with Ohio St., Florida, Georgetown, Kentucky, UCLA over the last 7 years. KU has had the #1 strength of schedule three of the past four years.

KU is not afraid of playing Wichita State...they are afraid to lose to Wichita State. Losing to Kentucky or Duke or any of the P5 teams is not that great a blow to one's image. However, losing to a mid-major in your own state...a place where you have enjoyed dominance of the coverage and fans, threatens all of those things. We saw the same example in Oklahoma back when TU was a pretty dominant basketball program and usually right on par with OSU and OU. After the '96 preseason NIT, TU and OSU didn't play for like 12 years. Sutton's easy excuse at the time was he didn't want to play one of his former assistants. OU stopped playing TU for a while after the '97 (think it was '97) All College Tournament final in which TU just walloped OU. Both stayed away until after Phillips stocked the program with non-D1 talent. So when was the next time OU played TU...when they had Blake Griffin and TU had...Bishop Wheatley. OSU killed us the 1st game back in the series in Stillwater...BUT we returned the favor the next year.

That is what Kansas is avoiding. It's all about image. You don't lose image points losing to Kentucky. You take a hit losing to Wichita St. no matter how good or bad they are because they are in the Valley and P5-inferior, at least in the minds of Kansas fans.

 

[mcane]

Re: Selection Show


You're being too defensive Phoggy. I make the same KU-WSU argument as TU-ORU. Eddie made it for years about OSU-TU although he fibbed about it being due to the assistant coaches from his tree. It is what it is - KU doesn't want to risk losing to WSU. Hopefully, you will understand why TU fans (other than those that root for KU) want both teams to advance so we can see the game. It would be close this year, not every year.

I really only have one argument with the selections - UCLA. I don't understand why, if UCLA is in, UCLA is not playing in Dayton in the first round. I understand why CSU got knocked out when Wyoming won the MWC, barely.

Temple makes less sense to me, although I suspect the two losses to TU were one too many. I guess beating KU in December doesn't carry as much weight as I thought it would.

 

[I.I.]

Re: Selection Show


Losing to Wichita State would hurt in state recruiting. I would like to be at that game if it occurs. I like Bill but he was not on the Kansas end when they played TU 1-1-1. Unfortunately we had JP for most of that time. He won't play Tulsa either.

 

[Barlass]

Gawd I hate Kansas and their holier-than-thou fans.

 

[lawpoke87]

Re: Selection Show


Kansas has one scholarship player from the state of Kansas. I don't think this is about recruiting. I think it's more that KU sees the series as a no win situation. They are seen as the dominate team in the state. Going into Wichita and getting a win against a fired up Shocker team would be very, very difficult (I think they lose). For the record I think all instate teams should play.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show


The only thing this has to do with recruiting is KU would lose a road game in an area we actually recruit. KU does not recruit much if at all in Kansas. In addition to an early season tournament, KU can only play one or two non-conference road games a year because KU needs the revenue from home basketball games. Football does not bring in any money. KU uses those road games for recruiting and national tv exposure.

I actually agree that WSU will win this year. Without Cliff Alexander and with an injured Perry Ellis, KU is just not that good. Even with those guys, this is the worst KU team in 10+ years. The issue isn't right now though. WSU found Baker, VanVleet and Early three years ago. That is a great group. Early is gone and Baker and VanVleet will be soon. I also suspect their coach leaves when Baker and VanVleet do. The issue is the 11 year stretch before that when WSU only made 2 NCAA Tournaments. I did not hear a lot of WSU fans screaming for a series then. If WSU reverts to that, what benefit does KU gain by entering into an annual series with a mediocre WSU?

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

II, it is the same situation with Tulsa. KU does not recruit Tulsa or Oklahoma much so what is the benefit of playing a road game here? KU does recruit the Philadelphia area. You will notice that KU has played two road games at Temple over the past 5 years. KU schedules to benefit KU, not other people. If KU could gain something by scheduling Wichita St or Tulsa, they would. KU does not need the RPI help so why play road games that will not draw major national attention or help in recruiting and that you might lose?

If Wichita St wants to play KU so badly, they should agree to come to Allen Fieldhouse. ORU, San Diego St and Richmond were not afraid to schedule a one-game series in Lawrence and they each won the game.

 

[youngblood223]

Re: Selection Show

Originally posted by PhoggyBottom:
First, if you are talking about tv contracts, those are between CBS and the NCAA for the tournament and the various networks and the conferences. Those will not be impacted by a split. If you are talking about contracts between teams for games, those are generally only made for the next two+ years in basketball and not 5+ years out like in football.

Second, I have attached a link from cbs sports that includes an anonymous survey of DI college basketball coaches regarding whether a P5 split will happen in the next 10 years - 69% believe it will. I prefer for the system to stay the way it is but the P5 group has all the power and (a) they do not like the NCAA and (b) they do not like sharing the money with programs that they believe are not helping to create the product (the low majors particularly).

Third, I am sure everyone thinks KU is scared of Wichita St. KU plays either Kentucky, Duke or Michigan St. every year. KU has played home and homes with Ohio St., Florida, Georgetown, Kentucky, UCLA over the last 7 years. KU has had the #1 strength of schedule three of the past four years. KU's scheduling is very easy to follow. KU plays in the Champions Classic. They play in an early season tournament. They play 3 or 4 one-game series with a solid mid-major/low-majors at home, and they play two road games against elite teams or in an area where we recruit. Playing Wichita St under the scenario they demand does not fit. We do not need to play in Wichita to recruit there. We would have to give up several home games under their demand which does not fit within our athletic budget. We can schedule more attractive teams for tv for home/home games. Also, Kansas fans could not care less about playing Wichita St. It is not like Missouri where a large portion of our fans want the series to start up again. If Wichita wants to play KU, they can play at Allen Fieldhouse. San Diego St is every bit the program WSU is and they agreed to a one-game series in Lawrence and they won. Maybe the question is what is WSU afraid of.

Hmmmm I think all of that is conjecture. There would be a very complicated lawsuit filed the minute they tried to breakaway. Now, when the current contract expires... Different story. Also, we're talking about different agreements (not TV agreements etc).

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Re: Selection Show

Complicated lawsuit brought by who and against who? What agreements are you talking about?

 

[oruvoice]

I'd love to see Wichita State run KU off the floor, in the second game!

Only one problem...New Mexico State is a very good basketball team. Look for the Aggies to pull the 2/15 upset and then also beat WSU, to advance to the Sweet 16.

NMSU has a real shot at being the Cinderella of this years' tourney...

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Wouldn't be that big a surprise. Worst KU team in 10+ years plus we are missing our starting center and our starting power forward is playing on one leg. KU should beat NMSU but kenpom only puts it at 84% and that doesn't take the missing and injured guys into account. I would put WSU as the favorite if both teams get there. KU fans wanted the conference champ streak to continue. Anything else with this group is a bonus. There are no real expectations of tournament success this year. Of course, that is how ridiculously good Self has been at KU. Our down year is a conference title in #1 RPI conference and a 2 seed.

 

[Tulsafanzz]

I read the entire article Phoggy linked. The article says that coaches surveyed were thinking of a football split more than basketball. The article stated that most coaches do NOT think a basketball split will occur. This article is from last August, when a split in football was the big threat.

Again, I doubt the so-called power 5 would be foolish enough to screw up the NCAA Basketball tournament.

 

[TU_BLA]

Regarding the split, Bubba Cunningham was on the Buzz last week and he doesn't think a split is a good thing for the P5 nor does he think it is inevitable. It is interesting that all of the ADs are wanting to be cautious regarding this autonomy thing but the Presidents are the ones steering the ship right now because for them it's all about the money grab. I think the ADs are acty about the opportunities athletics give kids besides just the chance to continue playing a sport.
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