Making Covid permanent?

lawpoke87

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You’re talking to a population who knows there’s a direct link to obesity and Covid death but has gotten fatter and less healthy during the pandemic. Many chose not to get vaccinated as well. If they had only wore those Walmart purchased cloth masks which we’ve been pushing for the last two years :).

If Covid has demonstrated anything it’s the science and governments are not equipped to stop a viral pandemic. Regardless of what promises are made to the citizens.
 
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astonmartin708

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You’re talking to a population who knows there’s a direct link to obesity and Covid death but has gotten fatter and less healthy during the pandemic. Many chose not to get vaccinated as well. If they had only wore those Walmart purchased cloth masks which we’ve been pushing for the last two years :).

If Covid has demonstrated anything it’s the science and governments are not equipped to stop a viral pandemic. Regardless of what promises are made to the citizens.
The science has done fine. People’s ignorance of science and misinformation have been the problem. How many deaths do you think there would have been since 600 K if the mandate had gone into effect in June 2021?

I would be willing to bet the number would be less than 20K.
 

lawpoke87

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The science has done fine. People’s ignorance of science and misinformation have been the problem. How many deaths do you think there would have been since 600 K if the mandate had gone into effect in June 2021?

I would be willing to bet the number would be less than 20K.
Not even remotely close. 20k instead of 300k? Most of the dead are still either obese and/or old. Neither group is particularly well represented in working for large companies which was the target group for the mandate. A mandate which included elderly and poor would have been much more effective if the goal was to prevent deaths.

I’m not sure it’s debatable at this point that our efforts to eradicate Covid have failed miserably. Not a great sign for future coronaviruses. The promises science made for an end to Covid through vaccines and/or herd immunity were obviously wrong. Hard to believe we’re still dealing with this thing two years after it’s start
 
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URedskin54

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The vaccine is quite effective, but unfortunately significantly less effective for the elderly, which is 95%+ vaccinated but still making up most of the deaths.
 

astonmartin708

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The vaccine is quite effective, but unfortunately significantly less effective for the elderly, which is 95%+ vaccinated but still making up most of the deaths.
The New York Times doesn't agree with this. Unvaccinated are making up most of the deaths. Period. Full stop.

 

lawpoke87

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URedskin54

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That’s behind a paywall but last I saw of the nytimes data most of it was from states counting those where vaccination status is unknown as unvaccinated. After review many of those who were unknown turn out to be vaccinated. The result cuts the rate per 100k down to roughly 2-3x as high for unvaccinated as vaccinated. So still very effective, but with the vast majority of people vaccinated it still means lots of vaccinated getting very ill.

NYC data is a good example. Just cases, but illustrates how vax status is very incomplete until review


ECFC6-B07-985-E-438-E-B619-3022339486-DD.jpg
 
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astonmartin708

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That’s behind a paywall but last I saw of the nytimes data most of it was from states counting those where vaccination status is unknown as unvaccinated. After review many of those who were unknown turn out to be vaccinated. The result cuts the rate per 100k down to roughly 2-3x as high for unvaccinated as vaccinated. So still very effective, but with the vast majority of people vaccinated it still means lots of vaccinated getting very ill.

NYC data is a good example. Just cases, but illustrates how vax status is very incomplete until review


ECFC6-B07-985-E-438-E-B619-3022339486-DD.jpg
Cool bar there.... we know that Omicron will cause cases in both unvax and vax. We also know that Vax has a much much larger population in NYC. No way to accurately break things out without knowing vax v. unvax in hospitalized cases / deaths.
 

astonmartin708

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What is the NYT’s considering “unvaccinated”?
Considering the Pfizer / Moderna CEO's comments regarding their drugs ability to combat Omicron with two doses vs. 3.... I'm guessing that it would be non-boosted.
 

astonmartin708

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Here is a study with the numbers we're all looking for including boosted status being counted as fully vaccinated. Deaths from the unvaccinated were ~4.5x more likely than in the unboosted population in the counties suffering Omicron emergence during the first week of December. Pre-Delta they were roughly 10x more likely, and during Delta they were ~5-6x more likely.


Deaths among >65, October - November (during Delta) 1/2 as likely if vaccinated with two doses. 1/10th as likely if boosted.

mm7104e2-F-large.gif
 

URedskin54

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Cool bar there.... we know that Omicron will cause cases in both unvax and vax. We also know that Vax has a much much larger population in NYC. No way to accurately break things out without knowing vax v. unvax in hospitalized cases / deaths.

Really don’t understand the douchiness of this post. All I attempted to say in that post was that the data I’ve seen floating around is incomplete re: vaccinated vs unvaccinated AND that the vaccines are still very effective. Thats true on both counts.
 

URedskin54

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Here is a study with the numbers we're all looking for including boosted status being counted as fully vaccinated. Deaths from the unvaccinated were ~4.5x more likely than in the unboosted population in the counties suffering Omicron emergence during the first week of December. Pre-Delta they were roughly 10x more likely, and during Delta they were ~5-6x more likely.


Deaths among >65, October - November (during Delta) 1/2 as likely if vaccinated with two doses. 1/10th as likely if boosted.

mm7104e2-F-large.gif

That 65+ data is virtually exactly what I said minus the comment about boosters. Still effective with the elderly, but substantially less so than the rest of the population, so still most deaths occurring in this group.
 
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astonmartin708

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That 65+ data is virtually exactly what I said minus the comment about boosters. Still effective with the elderly, but substantially less so than the rest of the population, so still most deaths occurring in this group.
So, had the elderly unvaccinated could potentially have reduced their death numbers by 5-10 times had they gotten properly vaccinated.

If we’re talking about 100K deaths among them during this late stage of the pandemic (let’s say Oct til today) then we probably could have expected 20K deaths.

The vaccine (and proper boosters) might have been able to save 80K lives if they had been mandated , restarting with the elderly. I would argue it’s a fair trade.
 

lawpoke87

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Never made much sense to not target mandates at the most at risk of our population. If we were going to have targeted mandates. 🤷‍♂️
 

astonmartin708

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Never made much sense to not target mandates at the most at risk of our population. If we were going to have targeted mandates. 🤷‍♂️
I agree. I never agreed with targeted mandates. In my opinion it was a failure of Congress to not install a nationwide mandate with structure as to priority.
 

lawpoke87

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Reason 999 why masks aren’t effective in the real world. Note this isn’t some McDonalds drive thru worker it’s the leader of the free world and a U.S. Supreme Court Justice. The problem isn’t always the mask but the user.


 

URedskin54

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I don’t see anything wrong with a person going back to school to finish their education
 

lawpoke87

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I started supplementing Vitamin D two years ago. Hoping the rest of you are now doing so as well. Remarkable numbers. Disappointed the CDC isn’t pushing this cheap preventative.


 

TU_BLA

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mandates are performed by totalitarianism governments.
If you ever want to travel to South America or Africa, you have to get a shot to prevent malaria. Every person serving in the military gets so many vaccines and shots it's not funny. Vaccines have been mandated to attend schools and universities for the last 60 years...yet all of a sudden the COVID vaccine is politicized because Trump lost his re-election bid and couldn't oversee the distribution. How quickly everyone forgets Operation Warp Speed was a Trump admin initiative.

BTW, I bet you registered with selective service when you were 18 right? Enacted under a Republican president in 1917 (Wilson). Expanded under FDR in 1940 to include everyone between ages of 18 and 64 (previously was 21-45).

You're such a tool
 

Gmoney4WW

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If you ever want to travel to South America or Africa, you have to get a shot to prevent malaria. Every person serving in the military gets so many vaccines and shots it's not funny. Vaccines have been mandated to attend schools and universities for the last 60 years...yet all of a sudden the COVID vaccine is politicized because Trump lost his re-election bid and couldn't oversee the distribution. How quickly everyone forgets Operation Warp Speed was a Trump admin initiative.

BTW, I bet you registered with selective service when you were 18 right? Enacted under a Republican president in 1917 (Wilson). Expanded under FDR in 1940 to include everyone between ages of 18 and 64 (previously was 21-45).

You're such a tool
You could have just summarized that with the last line.

It's the only point of any consequence in responding to him.
 

aTUfan

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If you ever want to travel to South America or Africa, you have to get a shot to prevent malaria. Every person serving in the military gets so many vaccines and shots it's not funny. Vaccines have been mandated to attend schools and universities for the last 60 years...yet all of a sudden the COVID vaccine is politicized because Trump lost his re-election bid and couldn't oversee the distribution. How quickly everyone forgets Operation Warp Speed was a Trump admin initiative.

BTW, I bet you registered with selective service when you were 18 right? Enacted under a Republican president in 1917 (Wilson). Expanded under FDR in 1940 to include everyone between ages of 18 and 64 (previously was 21-45).

You're such a tool
the problem with that covid is a moving target. first the was the vaccine was susposed to fix the problem. Oh you will need a second one. ... oops now you need a booster. maybe you need a second booster or is it and anual shot like the flu shot? All this and vaccinated people are still getting covid.

im all for vaccines, but not the mandated covid shot, until the science shows better results, ie polio, tb, shingles, tetanus
 

TU_BLA

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the problem with that covid is a moving target. first the was the vaccine was susposed to fix the problem. Oh you will need a second one. ... oops now you need a booster. maybe you need a second booster or is it and anual shot like the flu shot? All this and vaccinated people are still getting covid.

im all for vaccines, but not the mandated covid shot, until the science shows better results, ie polio, tb, shingles, tetanus
This is fair. I can say, being vaccinated and boosted, and at risk, I have had 2 breakthrough cases. 1, I was completely asymptomatic and only went to get a test because of a known close exposure. 3 weeks ago I tested positive again. I legit felt like I had a bad cold. Cough, nasal congestion, a little fatigue the 1st couple of days. 100% believe it wasn't worse because of my vaccination and booster status.

Viruses will always be moving targets. Understanding mutation rates and likely base pair/proteins to be affected by mutations in viruses is how to update vaccines to be effective. This is how the flu vaccine works as flu has one of the highest rates of mutation of any known virus. You may have heard the US Army has developed a "catch-all" COVID vaccine and has recently applied for FDA testing approval. This catch-all is designed to anticipate future variants as well as provide Ab protection against current VoC. I also think as we continue down the COVID road (it's never going away), based on my knowledge of viruses and and their replication strategy, future variants will be less and less lethal. Killing potential hosts and their ability to replicate does not serve a virus' long term sustainability (I am cautious to use the term survival since viruses are not living and differ from bacteria in that way). Most viruses cannot persist outside of the body very long as most have an optimal temp range of 95*-100* F. Anything above 100* (and most certainly 104*) will denature the virus' RNA/DNA strands. This is why one of the human body's immediate responses to a viral infection is high fever until the body's natural immune response can generate enough Ab to get the viral load under control. Anyway, I think as we move along this road, COVID will mutate enough to be able to infect individuals without the extreme lethal results and most people will experience the cold-like symptoms. There will still be some mortality associated with it like the flu but I think we will adapt to COVID as a new normal. I just believe the vaccine is a way to get us to that point sooner.

I have taken offense with many of the opponents calling the vaccine experimental. It really isn't. The mRNA vaccine technology has been around for 20+ years (maybe more) and is widely accepted as the vaccine blue print moving forward. The only thing the immunologists and biomolecular engineers needed to figure out was the protein sequencing that would illicit the most effective response from our immune systems. The only other part of the vaccine are the stabilizers and binders used to deliver the protein sequence. The use of inactive, attenuated viral strands is basically stone age tech now and just not common at all. The "reactions" people experienced, especially the body aches and chills is your body's immune response kicking into gear. The sore arm....well, your biceps muscle just got stabbed with a sharp instrument...it's essentially a bruise.

We can disagree and I can respect your opinion when delivered in a thoughtful manner that has a cogent thought process behind it. I have a hard time having that discussion when people just throw stuff out there about government conspiracies or the more recent one that "thousands of pro athletes have died from getting the vaccine" that was thrown out there when people basically blasted Aaron Rodgers for lying or misleading the public about his vax status. I'm pretty sure if this actually happened it would be front page news of every major publication, ESPN, etc. and not just a QAnon page on Facebook.
 

TU_BLA

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I started supplementing Vitamin D two years ago. Hoping the rest of you are now doing so as well. Remarkable numbers. Disappointed the CDC isn’t pushing this cheap preventative.


Interesting. I have been taking Vitamin D (about 3000 micro grams) for years now at the request of my doctor. Might also explain why my COVID remained mild...and even milder in the summer when I was getting more sun.
 

lawpoke87

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The NYT’s apparently believes China has only had 100k cases and 4000 deaths 😂😂😂


 

TU_BLA

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The NYT’s apparently believes China has only had 100k cases and 4000 deaths 😂😂😂


Yeah, even I don't believe that. That's the problem with fascist dictatorships that control all information coming in and going out.

Chinese citizens did however seem more willing to wear masks everywhere, even before COVID because of the population density in many places combined with poor overall air quality in the cities. I believe that the Chinese government even had a harsh crack down against citizens in Hong Kong about mask wearing as well a few years ago saying it was western propaganda...maybe it had something to do with climate change and poor air quality and maybe it was right around the Beijing summer olympics as I know the air quality was something that athletes raised as a concern.
 

watu05

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I have taken offense with many of the opponents calling the vaccine experimental. It really isn't. The mRNA vaccine technology has been around for 20+ years (maybe more) and is widely accepted as the vaccine blue print moving forward. The only thing the immunologists and biomolecular engineers needed to figure out was the protein sequencing that would illicit the most effective response from our immune systems. The only other part of the vaccine are the stabilizers and binders used to deliver the protein sequence.

MRNa vaccines were never released on an 'experimental' basis. Emergency basis, yes which is a far higher standard. Both now have moved from emergency to full approvals.
 

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