Journalist from Saudi Arabia

[astonmartin708]

Hmph, yesss, strong with Godwins Law this one is... powerful invoker.. powerful.

That doesn't make the comparison less valid. The distinct and aggressive divide between far right and far left these days can absolutely be seen in past history, and the closest thing we have to this situation would be in Weimar Germany. Nowhere else have I seen such nationalistic (Trump's word not mine) hatred for those perceived to be outside of society and such a clash from the far left in response.

Can you recall one other truly democratic nation that's had literal battles in the streets between nationalists advocating a host of far right notions and leftist counter protesters? I guess you might point to the 60's and Selma, but that seems like a different situation to me.

 

[noble cane]

That doesn't make the comparison less valid. The distinct and aggressive divide between far right and far left these days can absolutely be seen in past history, and the closest thing we have to this situation would be in Weimar Germany. Nowhere else have I seen such nationalistic (Trump's word not mine) hatred for those perceived to be outside of society and such a clash from the far left in response.

Can you recall one other truly democratic nation that's had literal battles in the streets between nationalists advocating a host of far right notions and leftist counter protesters? I guess you might point to the 60's and Selma, but that seems like a different situation to me.

Funny you are..

 

[lawpoke87]

That doesn't make the comparison less valid..

Do you realize how moronic anyone sounds trying to compare any American politician to Hitler?

 

[TUMe]

I don't understand your instance of comparing current affairs with Nazi Germany. It isn't there. It. Is like comparing a severe thunderstorm to a category five hurricane.

 

[astonmartin708]

Do you realize how moronic anyone sounds trying to compare any American politician to Hitler?

I realize it's an analogy that's been over used and is often used incorrectly. Also, I don't think Trump is like Hitler in relation to wanting to kill millions of innocents... but politically, as far as political strategy... I don't think he's far off. We know he's a fan of Mein Kompf.

For Trump it's more about the messaging, deceit, and a nationalist domestic agenda than it is genocide. Also, I don't even really think these things are Trump's desires necessarily. I think a lot of his ideas come from people who surround him or people he uses as sounding boards. Pence, Hannity, Kushner etc... those are the people whispering in his ear. That's why I tend to compare him more to Mussolini. He's blusterous without nearly the degree of crazy that Hitler had. I also don't think he's all that intelligent but other people gravitate towards his irrational confidence.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don't understand your instance of comparing current affairs with Nazi Germany. It isn't there. It. Is like comparing a severe thunderstorm to a category five hurricane.

It wasn't yet Nazi Germany. It was Weimar Germany and the Nazi's weren't a controlling political party yet. It is more similar than any modern democratic example I can think of. In the end the communist left and the Social Democrats (the middle party) couldn't compromise to stop the Nazi's. Just like the Far Left is having trouble resonating with the middle of the spectrum now, despite what seems more and more to be a far-right grasp at power.

Go read up on the interwar years in Germany.

 

[aTUfan]

Trump is more like Churchill. A loose cannon who doesn't give a damn about appeasing anyone.

 

[astonmartin708]

Trump is more like Churchill. A loose cannon who doesn't give a damn about appeasing anyone.

Ha.Ha.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That was a good one.

Let's see which one can drink the other under the table.

 

[lawpoke87]

I realize it's an analogy that's been over used and is often used incorrectly. Also, I don't think Trump is like Hitler in relation to wanting to kill millions of innocents... but politically, as far as political strategy... I don't think he's far off. We know he's a fan of Mein Kompf.

For Trump it's more about the messaging, deceit, and a nationalist domestic agenda than it is genocide. Also, I don't even really think these things are Trump's desires necessarily. I think a lot of his ideas come from people who surround him or people he uses as sounding boards. Pence, Hannity, Kushner etc... those are the people whispering in his ear. That's why I tend to compare him more to Mussolini. He's blusterous without nearly the degree of crazy that Hitler had. I also don't think he's all that intelligent but other people gravitate towards his irrational confidence.

Hitler is primarily remembered for killing millions upon millions of innocent men, women and children not his political strategy. He also disarmed the public, tried silenced those with differing political views and used the education system has a tool of indoctrination. Shall we compare those who try to employ those methods as Hitler as well?

There have been many other leaders who have employed a similar political strategy which you refer to btw. When someone compares any politician to Hitler it is being done purely for shock value and serves very little purpose other than that imo. As such, such comparisons are immediately dismissed by most people as simply shock statements.

 

[astonmartin708]

Hitler is primarily remembered for killing millions upon millions of innocent men, women and children not his political strategy. He also disarmed the public, tried silenced those with differing political views and used the education system has a tool of indoctrination. Shall we compare those who try to employ those methods as Hitler as well?

There have been many other leaders who have employed a similar political strategy which you refer to btw. When someone compares any politician to Hitler it is being done purely for shock value and serves very little purpose other than that imo. As such, such comparisons are immediately dismissed by most people as simply shock statements.

I can tell you're pointing at the left wing with your first paragraph... but Hitler was so far from the left wing that it's ridiculous. He and his compatriots adopted the "socialist" portion of their name to draw support away from the Social Democrats and the Communist Party of Germany. His base was mostly middle class.

Their demands included: Lower Taxes, Restrictions on Co-Ops, and Reductions in Social Services and Wages. That's the Republican Playbook to a T.


"From 1928 onward, the Nazi Party's growth into a large national political movement was dependent on middle class support, and on the public perception that it "promised to side with the middle classes and to confront the economic and political power of the working class." The financial collapse of the white collar middle-class of the 1920s figures much in their strong support of Nazism. Although the Nazis continued to make appeals to "the German worker," historian Timothy Mason concludes that "Hitler had nothing but slogans to offer the working class."

That sounds a lot like the promises Trump has been making to me. And the R's current relation to the working (lower class).

Furthermore the refusal of Trump and many of his party members to ostracize the racist fringes of their base doesn't help us distance him from the racism that occurred in Weimar Germany. Be it Jews, African Americans, Mexicans, or Gays... the fringes of one of our parties' bases are calling for outright subjugation or removal of the same types of minorities that were being taken to camps in Germany. Evidence for that can be seen in Trump's speeches about Mexico or his base's actions against African Americans in Charlotte or Jews in Pennsylvania or Gays pretty much anywhere in Middle America.

The Nazi party also supported the elimination of trade unions, an ever increasing enhancement of their nation's military capabilities to peddle their influence across various regions. They privatized public properties and corporations. They discriminated against people they believed to be "work shy". They hated communists. They had a disdain for international "globalist" trade practices and supported domestic control of markets.

Sounds like the only thing separating some on the right wing from the Nazi party of the 1930's might have been their attitude toward religion.

 

[lawpoke87]

The actions of his base? Are you serious with that crap? Guess Obama’s base called for and then carried out the murder of officers. Same diluted and partisan line of thinking. Both are ridiculous.

 

[astonmartin708]

The actions of his base? Are you serious with that crap? Guess Obama’s base called for and then carried out the murder of officers. Same diluted and partisan line of thinking. Both are ridiculous.

Officers are killed by both republicans and democrats and mostly by people who don't identify one way or another. Jews aren't typically gunned down in synagogues by democrats.

Actually, barring the steve scallise incident. No one tends to be gunned down by Democrats. People who vote for gun regulations don't typically shoot people.

 

[noble cane]

And Aston has jumped the shark..

 

[URedskin54]

Convinced he's trolling at this point. No one can know so many things that aren't true

 

[astonmartin708]

Convinced he's trolling at this point. No one can know so many things that aren't true

Which things that I said weren't true?

I'm already ready for the predictably forthcoming argument about shootings in Chicago.

 

[lawpoke87]

Surely Aston is trolling at this point. No one can be this dense and diluded solely by political bias. The above few posts and the beliefs set forth are exactly what is wrong in this country today. Sad it’s made it’s way to Crossfire.

 

[noble cane]

People who vote for gun regulations don't typically shoot people.

No, they do their killing by proxy. Then they enhance their political power with the blood and bodies of the dead.

 

[URedskin54]

Which things that I said weren't true?

I'm already ready for the predictably forthcoming argument about shootings in Chicago.

Seriously the trolling has gotten out of control. No need to keep up the act. I know you know that registered dems shoot people sometimes

 

[lawpoke87]

No one tends to be gunned down by Democrats

Of all the crazy statements on this board this might take the cake. Might want to look at where most shootings take place and the proportion breakdown of Dems and Pubs who live in those areas.

 

[TUMe]

Go read up on the interwar years in Germany.

I read The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich twice before you were born. I have read about Lindbergh, Henry Ford, and Joe Kennedy "collusion." I know about hyper-inflation, the hangover from the Treaty of Versailles, Alsace and her sister Lorraine, the Sudaten, Ludendorf, Hindenburg the man and the blimp.

I have been to where the rallies were held in Nürnberg or as we say Nuremberg. Despite my picking on Watu about his book suggestions (I am reading one now) I love to read.

The document floor of the downtown library has some detailed documents about the war., but you are talking about earlier.

 

[cmullinsTU]

Trump comparisons of Hitler are laughable

Trump has no intention of genocide, has never written a book about his ideas on the perfect world, and isn't intelligent

Hitler was an incredibly evil person whose goal was to eradicate the Jewish population, his politic view points were only to get to power so he could then forcefully take over the country and surrounding countries, there was no intent to actually use the policies. Lastly, by basically all accounts Hitler was considered intelligent to very intelligent... I don't think anyone would claim Trump to be even moderately intelligent.

 

[astonmartin708]

Trump comparisons of Hitler are laughable

Trump has no intention of genocide, has never written a book about his ideas on the perfect world, and isn't intelligent

Hitler was an incredibly evil person whose goal was to eradicate the Jewish population, his politic view points were only to get to power so he could then forcefully take over the country and surrounding countries, there was no intent to actually use the policies. Lastly, by basically all accounts Hitler was considered intelligent to very intelligent... I don't think anyone would claim Trump to be even moderately intelligent.

I agree with the genocide point, although I think some of Trump's base might support genocide if they were given the opportunity for that avenue and he's constantly pandering to his base.

I don't think Hitler was particularly intelligent. I think he was a conniving opportunist but he didn't have a ton of intellectual prowess. Nothing in Hitlers youth or his thoughts on the world show him to be intelligent. How can we consider someone intelligent who believes that Jews were one of the main reason Germany was in trouble during the Great Depression?

 

[noble cane]

I agree with the genocide point, although I think some of OBAMA’s base might support genocide if they were given the opportunity for that avenue and he's constantly pandering to his base.

FIFY

 

[cmullinsTU]

I don't think Hitler was particularly intelligent. I think he was a conniving opportunist but he didn't have a ton of intellectual prowess. Nothing in Hitlers youth or his thoughts on the world show him to be intelligent

I'll trust actual historians who study Hitler for a living on this matter, all point to him of being intelligent, including all of his schooling and those who knew him as a kid/young adult before he became the evil maniac that we all know him for.

Evil people can be intelligent, evil and intelligence are not exclusive of one another.

 

[astonmartin708]

FIFY

What the heck are you talking about? Who in Obama's base has ever said anything about killing all of XYZ race?

 

[lawpoke87]

What the heck are you talking about? Who in Obama's base has ever said anything about killing all of XYZ race?

Farrakhan and his crew in the past has stated that Jews and white people deserved to die....is that close enough?

 

[cmullinsTU]

Farrakhan and his crew in the past has stated that Jews and white people deserved to die....is that close enough?

And since we are comparing people to Hitler in this thread, Farrakhan actually LIKES being compared to Hitler.

Real quote from Louis X AKA Louis Farrakhan (I'm unsure why he is referring to himself in 3rd person):

"The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man."

 

[astonmartin708]

I'll trust actual historians who study Hitler for a living on this matter, all point to him of being intelligent, including all of his schooling and those who knew him as a kid/young adult before he became the evil maniac that we all know him for.

Evil people can be intelligent, evil and intelligence are not exclusive of one another.

Hitler was intelligent in the same way that a used car dealer is intelligent. He knows how to take advantage of people for his personal gain. That's not what defines true intelligence to me. That's probably why he made so many mistakes despite his rise to power. He had the ability to woo people to his cause, but his ideas and his intellect weren't what he made people think. He did surround himself with quite intelligent people though, which made up for some shortcomings.

 

[astonmartin708]

Doesn't show anything other than they were at the same Congressional Black Caucus meeting in 2005. It wasn't Obama who invited him. He wasn't an Obama donor that I can tell. I agree that he's a kook who I wouldn't want in the Democratic party.

Weird situation... but I don't think it's comparable to the actual killings we've seen in the past decade from radical right wing "lone wolves".

 

[aTUfan]

Blm


"What do we want?
Dead cops.
When do we want them?
Now"


And blm was hosted by bho at the wh. And hrc sided with them

 

[lawpoke87]

Doesn't show anything other than they were at the same Congressional Black Caucus meeting in 2005. It wasn't Obama who invited him. He wasn't an Obama donor that I can tell. I agree that he's a kook who I wouldn't want in the Democratic party.

".

LOL...Obama invited Farrakhan to his house on the eve of his Presidential run. From his own mouth regarding his and his followers support of Obama. So to answer your previous questions it not only appears as if Obama's base/supporters said one race and one religious group deserves to die but Obama actually invited the leader of said supporters into his house to ask for said support.

 

[maverickfp]

This Aston guy is off his rocker. I thought watu was crazy...

 

[astonmartin708]

LOL...Obama invited Farrakhan to his house on the eve of his Presidential run. From his own mouth regarding his and his followers support of Obama. So to answer your previous questions it not only appears as if Obama's base/supporters said one race and one religious group deserves to die but Obama actually invited the leader of said supporters into his house to ask for said support.

View embedded media

Or the crazy Islamist preacher is lying. Which one do you think is more likely? Why would Obama have needed Farrakhan?

This would be like me going after any Republican President for meeting Pat Robertson after all the crazy stuff he says.

 

[astonmartin708]

From the 2008 presidential primaries where Hillary Clinton trotted out the same crap and Obama publicly denounced Farrakhan:

“I have been very clear in my denunciation” of Farrakhan’s history of anti-Semitic remarks, Obama said at the Democratic debate in Cleveland, “I did not solicit his support.” Obama said he “can not censor” individual endorsements but said there is no affiliation with his campaign and Farrakhan. “I can’t say to somebody that he can’t say that he thinks I’m a good guy,” Obama said, citing his support among Jewish Americans and stating that he would make it a priority to soothe historically tense ties between the African-American and Jewish communities in the nation. “I have some of the strongest support from the Jewish community in my hometown of Chicago and in this campaign,” he said, describing himself as a “stalwart” on supporting Israel.

 

[astonmartin708]

Blm


"What do we want?
Dead cops.
When do we want them?
Now"


And blm was hosted by bho at the wh. And hrc sided with them

They weren't rallying against cops because they wanted to kill all white people. They were rallying against cops because cops were killing black kids without justification and there were no repercussions.

 

[lawpoke87]

Or the crazy Islamist preacher is lying. Which one do you think is more likely? Why would Obama have needed Farrakhan?

This would be like me going after any Republican President for meeting Pat Robertson after all the crazy stuff he says.

Tend to believe the preacher. He has witnesses of at least one meeting:

Two years before Barack Obama announced his candidacy for President of the United States, he met with the leader of a hate group who had praised Hitler and declared that the Jews, "can't say 'Never Again' to God, because when he puts you in the ovens, you're there forever.”

The previous year, Obama had launched his national profile with a DNC speech proclaiming, “There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.” And there he was, smiling alongside Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, the largest black separatist organization in the country, whose theology claimed that white people were genetically engineered devils who were due to be destroyed by flying saucers.

Also posing with Farrakhan and Obama were Mustapha Farrakhan, Joshua Farrakhan and Leonard Farrakhan Muhammad, his security chief and son, his other son, and his chief of staff and son-in-law.

Also there was Willie F. Wilson, a Farrakhan ally, who had led a protest against an Asian business by a mob shouting, “F___ the Chinks”.

 

[astonmartin708]

Tend to believe the preacher. He has witnesses of at least one meeting:

Two years before Barack Obama announced his candidacy for President of the United States, he met with the leader of a hate group who had praised Hitler and declared that the Jews, "can't say 'Never Again' to God, because when he puts you in the ovens, you're there forever.”

The previous year, Obama had launched his national profile with a DNC speech proclaiming, “There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.” And there he was, smiling alongside Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, the largest black separatist organization in the country, whose theology claimed that white people were genetically engineered devils who were due to be destroyed by flying saucers.

Also posing with Farrakhan and Obama were Mustapha Farrakhan, Joshua Farrakhan and Leonard Farrakhan Muhammad, his security chief and son, his other son, and his chief of staff and son-in-law.

Also there was Willie F. Wilson, a Farrakhan ally, who had led a protest against an Asian business by a mob shouting, “F___ the Chinks”.

No record of that meeting beyond these accusations which seem to only come from hardcore conservative websites one of which says, "Behind every progressive is a totalitarian waiting to get out"

Seems like more Obama smearing to me, considering Obama publicly denounced him and denied his support in a primary debate. I think Farrakhan is lying because he lies a lot.

 

[lawpoke87]

No record of that meeting beyond these accusations which seem to only come from hardcore conservative websites one of which says, "Behind every progressive is a totalitarian waiting to get out"

Seems like more Obama smearing to me, considering Obama publicly denounced him and denied his support in a primary debate. I think Farrakhan is lying because he lies a lot.

What kind of record do you want....Farrakhan says it occurred. He also met with the Congressional Black Caucus with Obama in attendance. He obviously supports Obama as do his followers...which was your initial question btw. So yes....part of Obama's supporter and base (who he met with) called for death to a race and religious group.

 

[astonmartin708]

What kind of record do you want....Farrakhan says it occurred. He also met with the Congressional Black Caucus with Obama in attendance. He obviously supports Obama as do his followers...which was your initial question btw. So yes....part of Obama's supporter and base (who he met with) called for death to a race and religious group.

His meeting with the CBC had to do with a ten year anniversary of the million man march which he AND OTHERS helped organize. That's where they got the photo. Obama meeting with Farrakhan after publicly denouncing him and denying his support on national TV seems farfetched.

Secondly, Obama has denounced him and his rhetoric. Multiple times in fact. Trump thinks "there are good people on both sides"

Finally, nothing Obama has done in his supposed "support" of Farrakhan or BLM has actually led to the deaths of any of the groups they claim to be against. No one has gone out to shoot at cops because BLM told them to do so. No black muslims have killed a load of Jews or Whites becuase Farrahkan's words, or Obama's inaction made them think it was OK. That's what happened when Trump refused to condemn NeoNazis who were chanting his slogans in the streets of Charlotte.

The situations again, are not equitable.

 

[URedskin54]

Let us just imagine the shrieking we would hear (and rightfully so) if Trump took a picture like this with David Duke