Have to stop playing ORU

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

I know it's shady...

However, it needs to happen...

1. ORU has an extremely underrated program. They aren't nationally respected at all. Too bad for sure...

2. Sutton is a tremendous coach. He's said numerous times this is their biggest game. They play like it. Owens for three...really?

3. Their RPI will kill TU...every year.

4. I've said it every year since Sutton has been coach...TU will forever struggle to beat ORU. ORU will always have the tougher team in this game...always.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Stupid thread.
We needed to and should have won this game.

Last year I gave a pass. This year was crap.

It's chicken sh1t to back down from a team you should beat because they are beating you...

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

Stupid moderator.

I've NEVER disrespected anyone on this thread. It's my opinion. I'll stick with it.

 

[Novocaine]

We should play them twice a year and beat them by 30. We didn't want it today. Effort wasn't there.

 

[jesterondirt]

Only thing I'm tired of is seeing ORU put better talent on the floor than Tulsa. They might not have the depth of talent that we do, but their top 1-2 players are better than our top 1-2 nearly every year.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

I wish we could match their desire...

However, when running a program, you have to focus on what's best for your future.

There are numerous examples around the country where programs don't play local teams due to this same reason.

I'm not saying we don't ever play them again, but every year is a challenge...especially since a loss is likely with a huge RPI hit.

 

[bigzit]

jesterondirt.... you nailed it!
ORU's top 2 players are always just simply BETTER than Tulsa's. BB games are usually won by the team with better talent at top. I saw today an ORU team that was just better.

If they played 10 times, ORU wins 6-7.

 

[lawpoke87]

Sounds like OU and OSU fans talking about playing TU in football.

 

[Weatherdemon]

You're allowed yours as am I.

We cry about OSU and Arkansas then want the same thing with ORU?

We had ZERO business losing today and it is damn frustrating we've been to the NCAA's once since 2003.
I'm not hopeful for the future at this point.
Oh, and Missouri St beat OSU today so that makes our win even less impressive than it was.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

I don't cry about those schools not playing TU...it's justified.

Self and Wojcik hated playing this game. Self had an interesting angle. Per him, "I loved it when I was at ORU...but, when my job moved north 7 miles, I hated it".

It's just a real bad situation, especially with Sutton as coach.

I haven't heard how Haith feels about it...

 

[URedskin54]

Nope, just beat them. Be mad about losing to them, not mad about playing them.

Thank God ORU brought some fans today because our pathetic fans, who are for some reason afraid of playing ORU, don't come and we can't fill up half the arena.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

I hear ya...

I wish it made sense to play them every year...Unfortunately, it doesn't.

 

[URedskin54]

It makes sense to play tough non-conference games regardless of whether the win will look good on paper. There are valid reasons not to play a school. Stopping because they're kicking your a** is embarrassing.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

Objectively, it doesn't make sense to play a tough non-conference opponent unless it looks good on paper...especially if you're typically not going to win...but the college basketball world expects you to...

I'm good with playing ORU every year if we had a decent chance to win most years.

Unfortunately, we will typically lose this game as long as Sutton is the coach.

I think a three game series every five-seven years would work.

Keep in mind...barring a huge ORU meltdown four years ago, we'd be looking at a long drought of Mayor's Cups...

Right or wrong, here's the truth...
-If Self was our coach, we wouldn't be playing ORU every year.
-If Wojcik were still our coach (thank God he's not), we would never play ORU again. This was one thing he was lobbying hard for...he sucessfully got them off the schedule one of his last years.

We'll see what the future holds...it's a topic of discussion every year internally at TU.

 

[I.I.]

ORU has much better shooters and a really good twosome of Suttons with 100 years of experience. They knew who to foul at the end and we fell for it. They knew who to have the last shot and we didn't double him or make him go to his left. Woodard was unstoppable in the second half, but on several late occasions did not get a touch. ORU is a good team and better than OSU for sure.

 

[noble cane]

I have listened to OU and osu fans belittle us too much to walk away from a game that Should be played.

If we are gonna complain that the Gooners and the pokes won't grow balls enough to play us then we need to have balls enough to play oru.

This is on Haith n company.

 

[mcane]

I have long been on record as wanting to end the series. If we think we must play ORU, then we should treat them like the State schools treat us - 3 here, 1 there. OU was a 5-1. OSU is 4-1 with a 1-1 in basketball. That is how you play a school that is at a lower level and merely hurts the program. I'm telling the GHC I'm cancelling my season tickets next year if we don't cancel the ORU series.

 

[URedskin54]

I have long been on record as wanting to end the series. If we think we must play ORU, then we should treat them like the State schools treat us - 3 here, 1 there. OU was a 5-1. OSU is 4-1 with a 1-1 in basketball. That is how you play a school that is at a lower level and merely hurts the program. I'm telling the GHC I'm cancelling my season tickets next year if we don't cancel the ORU series.

Both OU and OSU have been 2-1 football contracts. It just looks like 4-1 because of how they were scheduled

 

[canerush]

This game should be played every year! Same as playing either OU and OSU every year! Period!... Can't beat them.....Oh well. Toughen up kids.
TU will be hard pressed to ever win a game by 30 with the lack of shooters. But as this team has proven in the past they do seem to get better as the season grinds on. Most of their wins will be nail biters, we should be used to it. This team is a crappy shooting team, but they have to shoot to open up lanes on the next possessions and to get garbage baskets. Hopefully this senior laden team keeps their heads on and plays to the end in all their remaining games.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

If college athletics wasn't a multi-billion dollar global business, I would want to play ORU every year...no doubt! Throw the teams out there and fight like lions!

However, college athletics IS a business...and, playing ORU annually is a bad business deal...especially (1) because TU will more than likely lose, and (2) TU will get absolutely zero credit for beating them.

If our objective is to put ourselves in position to make the NCAA tourney every year, then this game annually is a bad move by TU.

This is a good topic to discuss because it's not a secret. You could drive over to Scott Sutton's call-in show and bring it up as a topic...and he'll discuss it. He will hype it up because he's worried about it's future. He's also worried the the city of Tulsa no longer supports it. Scott will also state how he wishes they could get more home non-con games, but they have to "raise their own money as a program"...his words from a presser last week.

ORU would agree to whatever terms TU feels like offering. I agree that it's not fair, but it happens to TU as well.

Wojcik had successfully swayed the TU leadership to strongly consider changing the series...However, I'm not sure how everyone feels now.

 

[6152dj]

Out coached and out played again. One would think our high dollar coach could recruit and coach as well as our cross town rivals. You should always play your cross town rival. If we can't beat them then changes need to be made, either in coaching or recruiting.

 

[URedskin54]

However, college athletics IS a business...and, playing ORU annually is a bad business deal...especially (1) because TU will more than likely lose, and (2) TU will get absolutely zero credit for beating them.

If our objective is to put ourselves in position to make the NCAA tourney every year, then this game annually is a bad move by TU.

Wojcik had successfully swayed the TU leadership to strongly consider changing the series...However, I'm not sure how everyone feels now.

And this confirms most people's opinion of wojcik. Not at all surprising that he didn't want to take responsibility for not putting a good enough team on the floor to beat ORU. The answer is to get better. They'll upset us every once in a while, but the real reason we've been losing to them lately is that we aren't that good.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

Good thread...I agree we aren't that good.

Expect a change regarding this series over the next 2-3 years.

 

[mcane]

Haith 0-3 vs. ORU. Nolan NEVER lost to ORU. TU has lost this game 6-8 times being favored over the last ten years.

I want it gone and I intend to tell the GHC and the AD personally. I also think Haith should be fired.

 

[bigzit]

Mcane... agree 100 percent. Utterly ridiculous.
But.... what was even crazier is that Haith could not land a legit big man Juco for this year's crappy interior. Insane! And, he redshirts TK. Insane!

But the worse thing I saw today was the utter lack of interest in TU BB. There were like 2,000 TU fans there today. Crazy! Oh, how bad has the program sunk. Ridiculous.

 

[texcane1982]

I don't cry about those schools not playing TU...it's justified.

Self and Wojcik hated playing this game. Self had an interesting angle. Per him, "I loved it when I was at ORU...but, when my job moved north 7 miles, I hated it".

It's just a real bad situation, especially with Sutton as coach.

I haven't heard how Haith feels about it...

Eddie stopped playing TU when it would help OSU's RPI win or lose, ORU never helps the RPI, win or lose. Time to return the favor?

Out coached and out played again. One would think our high dollar coach could recruit and coach as well as our cross town rivals. You should always play your cross town rival. If we can't beat them then changes need to be made, either in coaching or recruiting.

The cross-town university more than likely recruits and accepts kids that could not get past TU's admissions dept.

TX

 

[texcane1982]

What bothers me more than anything is the complete lack of respect ORU has for the series. The celebration with 1.9 left on the clock was totally out of control and a complete taunt. Sure TU should not give away these games and let ORU act like they just won an NCAA tourney game, but how the H*ll do the officials allow their bench to storm the floor and celebrate with time on the clock, and not assess a technical foul? Entirely classes less with some real street ballin' chest thumping by Omegano.

I've never seen such behavoir with time left on the clock. Did they also take the nets back to 81st & Lewis?

TX

 

[texcane1982]

It makes sense to play tough non-conference games regardless of whether the win will look good on paper. There are valid reasons not to play a school. Stopping because they're kicking your a** is embarrassing.

I can buy that, scheduling quality RPI low mid-majors can be tricky (lack of prolonged success), but an edict should be put in place to stop playin schools with a prolonged trend of 150 + RPI's, especially from 1-bid low mid-major confs. IMO such action would have to come from Aresco, I think TU would catch too much heat for not playing ORU no matter how justifiable the reason.

I would rather see TU play Illinois St., Bradley, and Wichita St. on annual basis.

No other program in the AAC would give ORU or anyone else in the Summit a 1-1 deal, why should TU? While making ORU play at 11th & Harvard 2 out of every 3 yrs might make sense, it would be pointless if TU can't fill DonRey and create a home court advantage, the schools are only 7-8 miles apart.

TX

 

[mcane]

Appalling lack of class by ORU at the end. I hope TU demands an apology. Refs should have called a T on ORU. Sutton never respects TU and has made a living off of kicking us.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Well what do u expect when we wouldn't even consider hiring him, last go 'round.

 

[canerush]

A bunch of crybaby fans here. Put your passies in your mouth.

 

[hotterthanyourhusbandTU]

Wojcik actually had a winning record against ORU...

He just didn't like the series. He made a pretty rough statement in the media after a win over ORU.

He said "I have bigger things to worry about than ORU". He's probably right...but he shouldn't have made it about him.

 

[mcane]

If enough donors make it clear we don't want the game, it will go away. I intend to do my best to kill it.

 

[TUMU]

I have long been on record as wanting to end the series. If we think we must play ORU, then we should treat them like the State schools treat us - 3 here, 1 there. OU was a 5-1. OSU is 4-1 with a 1-1 in basketball. That is how you play a school that is at a lower level and merely hurts the program. I'm telling the GHC I'm cancelling my season tickets next year if we don't cancel the ORU series.

Really, that's seems weak.

Play them and beat them, don't run and hide.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Our problem is not ORU.

They beat us then finish 2nd or 3rd most years in a conference 4+ spots worse than ours.

They've held on to a great coach for years for that level of ball but we end most... Well some these days... seasons better than them despite 5 coaches since 1999.

They have 100 years of coaching behind them... How many years of coaching have we had behind us the last two years?

Our guys don't give a sh1t and that's on them and the coaches... And us.

We're not as good as we want to be and the attendance reflects reality on TU Basketball relevance despite what those of us on here think or feel. If there are 7000 TU fans in there today, we win. The crowd would have driven a win.

Our seniors are surely disappointed in attendance but they own that as much as we do.

I wasn't there... I could line up my excuses but frankly, I didn't think we would win. Until we win games we should, a few we shouldn't, and make an NCAA run for more than a day, we get what we get and we'll keep throwing a fit.

I'm sure we'll ride the bubble this year enough to keep diehards interested but The no one has the mentality to win enough to make the conversation one of seeding and not the bubble. And that has simply nothing to do with ORU.

Mediocrity is the game instilled by Wojcik and that will continue until we get the players that want and have the drive to exceed that.

Cancelling this series says we're OK with mediocrity and the NIT in good years. Drop your membership and season tickets. That's a good release but the money isn't there... It's in the top 25, conference championships, and NCAA runs.

At the end of the day, most P5 teams play equal or worse RPI games than ORU in non conference but they win them. If we can't, again, it's a fan, player, and coach issue.

We need Ray and Birt to infect the whole damn team with their will to win from start to finish. Even Curtis. Those guys play balls out. It irritates the sh1t out me to hear 'they get a good spark off their bench'. Yea, those guys want to play and win. Wright plays hard out of the gate too. If Shaq and Woodard need a 'spark off the bench' then put their a$$es on it!!!

Rant over... Time to wait and see if our nine seniors actually give a Enough of a crap to do more than ride the bubble.

 

[TU 1978]

This 'rivalry' with the sham 'university' on south Lewis should have been ended years ago.

 

[TU Sepp]

It is amazing that Emegano (#15) wanted to come to TU and Manning told him NO! Instead he brought in that kid from Wyoming that played 1 season and left! Also, with under 2 minutes the ball should never be in Harrison's hands except on a break away dunk!

There are valid points on both sides considering the continuation of the series... Years ago the game brought great crowds and was exciting, today not so much. The game is an RPI killer win or lose... For oru this game is their NCAA Finals Championship Game, it is how they measure their season, for us not so much. It is just one step above playing a D2 school. Wojcik and Manning recruited players that only bring their A games occasionally, oru game is a great example. oru players except for Emegano are less talented, but play with more heart. That's a reflection more on the character of the players than the coaching of the staff! This guys have been doing this since their freshman year!!!

 

[noble cane]

I am still so amazed that everyone's solution to losing to ORU is to pull our skirts up and run from them rather than get better than them and kick their a$$es.

Guys, if we can't beat ORU or for that matter SEOSU, we have bigger problems than poor scheduling.

 

[ankle breaker 32323]

At least under Manning we made the tournament.

 

[libertychamp]

At least under Manning we made the tournament.

By winning the CUSA CRAP TOURNAMENT.