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Changes coming because of the virus?

Watu3

I.T.S. Senior
Nov 17, 2017
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Once we get through this fight with the Corona virus, I think we will see big changes in the aftermath:

1) College education. University after university is shutting down classes and moving to internet lectures. Many are finding that their professors already have their lectures online. That trend should accelerate and could also bend the cost curve. Universities were experimenting with Cousera and EdX over 10 years ago.
2) Telemedicine. There is already a telemedia infrastructure in place to service remote and underserved areas, particularly in other countries. Not rocket science. Reduce numbers contagion in the waiting rooms and doctors offices.
3) Reduced auto ownership. My real estate friends tell me that one of the biggest changes in land usage will arise from increase shared car usage (Uber, Lyft, etc.) which will reduce the need for garages and parking. Reduced trips to campus and the doctor should further reduce auto usage.
4) Reduced attendance at sporting events and other live events? I watched the Rockets/Celtics game on TV yesterday. Great game. But it was surprising to see how packed it was. Some European sports championships are already playing in empty stadiums.

What else?
 
Last edited:
Once we get through this fight with the Corona virus, I think we will see big changes in the aftermath:

1) College education. University after university is shutting down classes and moving to internet lectures. Many are finding that their professors already have their courses online. That trend should accelerate and could also bend the cost curve.
2) Telemedicine. There is already a telemedia infrastructure in place to service remote and underserved areas, particularly in other countries. Not rocket science. Reduce numbers contagion in the waiting rooms and doctors offices.
3) Reduced auto ownership. My real estate friends tell me that one of the biggest changes in land usage will arise from increase shared car usage (Uber, Lyft, etc.) which will reduce the need for garages and parking. Reduced trips to campus and the doctor should further reduce auto usage.
4) Reduced attendance at sporting events and other live events? I watched the Rockets/Celtics game on TV yesterday. Great game. But it was surprising to see how packed it was. Some European sports championships are already playing in empty stadiums.

What else?
I see three of those four happen or already taking place. Reduced auto ownership will be the last in many places. It doesn't work for the Central Plains and areas of the Mountain West.
 
I expect most Oklahoma schools to be shut down in the next three to four weeks.
 
Add in a continuation of home delivery growth. Who wants to go out to shop.

Once we get through this fight with the Corona virus, I think we will see big changes in the aftermath:

1) College education. University after university is shutting down classes and moving to internet lectures. Many are finding that their professors already have their lectures online. That trend should accelerate and could also bend the cost curve. Universities were experimenting with Cousera and EdX over 10 years ago.
2) Telemedicine. There is already a telemedia infrastructure in place to service remote and underserved areas, particularly in other countries. Not rocket science. Reduce numbers contagion in the waiting rooms and doctors offices.
3) Reduced auto ownership. My real estate friends tell me that one of the biggest changes in land usage will arise from increase shared car usage (Uber, Lyft, etc.) which will reduce the need for garages and parking. Reduced trips to campus and the doctor should further reduce auto usage.
4) Reduced attendance at sporting events and other live events? I watched the Rockets/Celtics game on TV yesterday. Great game. But it was surprising to see how packed it was. Some European sports championships are already playing in empty stadiums.

What else?
 
Here in Seattle, aka America's Wuhan, closures are the theme of the day. The only ones resisting are live theater, arts and music events which probably can't afford to make refunds. I just cancelled a routine doctor's visit.

A Feb 27 Biotech conference in Boston drew attendees from all over the world. 2 of them returned to Princeton and have been confirmed as infected. Likely others have returned to their homes to spread it further.
 
CDC encourages the following to stay home (not mandatory(yet))

Over 60
Type 2 diabetes
Blood pressure medicine takers.

The last one is a bit much, at least for now.
 
Once we get through this fight with the Corona virus, I think we will see big changes in the aftermath:

1) College education. University after university is shutting down classes and moving to internet lectures. Many are finding that their professors already have their lectures online. That trend should accelerate and could also bend the cost curve. Universities were experimenting with Cousera and EdX over 10 years ago.
2) Telemedicine. There is already a telemedia infrastructure in place to service remote and underserved areas, particularly in other countries. Not rocket science. Reduce numbers contagion in the waiting rooms and doctors offices.
3) Reduced auto ownership. My real estate friends tell me that one of the biggest changes in land usage will arise from increase shared car usage (Uber, Lyft, etc.) which will reduce the need for garages and parking. Reduced trips to campus and the doctor should further reduce auto usage.
4) Reduced attendance at sporting events and other live events? I watched the Rockets/Celtics game on TV yesterday. Great game. But it was surprising to see how packed it was. Some European sports championships are already playing in empty stadiums.

What else?
This virus is a bio weapon likely engineered in the USA then sold to China. The timing of its release/outbreak isn’t a coincidence. China is panicking. The previous administrations that have sold us out to China for decades on decades on decades is now panicking. They can’t risk 4 more years of Trump bc a) Dems & Republican, Inc (Bush admin folks/RINOs) will be exposed & many will be going to prison (that’s going to happen regardless) & b) China can’t risk 4 more years of the trade war as their economy will collapse.

They’ve long planned for an attempt to destroy the USA that we all know & love, they’ve long planned on taking away more of our rights & ultimately this is the best way to do it before November.

Martial law is already starting in parts of the country which is what they want because it’s the only way they (Dems/RINOs) can execute their plan before November. Even with the national guard & military & all law enforcement agencies on their side (which wouldn’t even happen - at least 60% would dissent) they wouldn’t be able to take on the American public.

This was a last resort. Trump has survived more assassination attempts than any other president in US history. Mueller failed (bc framing the president who can fire you at any time when you’re guilty yourself is a bad idea hence why Mueller ultimately balked). Ukrainegate failed. These people are panicking & the fact that this virus has been released upon the world shows how little they care about human life & the lengths to which they’ll go to protect themselves. Of course, from Vincent Foster to Klaus Eberwein to Seth Rich to Philip Haney & Kevin Spidel, we already knew this.
 
This virus is a bio weapon likely engineered in the USA then sold to China. The timing of its release/outbreak isn’t a coincidence. China is panicking. The previous administrations that have sold us out to China for decades on decades on decades is now panicking. They can’t risk 4 more years of Trump bc a) Dems & Republican, Inc (Bush admin folks/RINOs) will be exposed & many will be going to prison (that’s going to happen regardless) & b) China can’t risk 4 more years of the trade war as their economy will collapse.

They’ve long planned for an attempt to destroy the USA that we all know & love, they’ve long planned on taking away more of our rights & ultimately this is the best way to do it before November.

Martial law is already starting in parts of the country which is what they want because it’s the only way they (Dems/RINOs) can execute their plan before November. Even with the national guard & military & all law enforcement agencies on their side (which wouldn’t even happen - at least 60% would dissent) they wouldn’t be able to take on the American public.

This was a last resort. Trump has survived more assassination attempts than any other president in US history. Mueller failed (bc framing the president who can fire you at any time when you’re guilty yourself is a bad idea hence why Mueller ultimately balked). Ukrainegate failed. These people are panicking & the fact that this virus has been released upon the world shows how little they care about human life & the lengths to which they’ll go to protect themselves. Of course, from Vincent Foster to Klaus Eberwein to Seth Rich to Philip Haney & Kevin Spidel, we already knew this.
Insanegate Blame it all on the Democrats.

You funny!

Keep talkin', your amusing the board more with every word. Talk more about the assassination attempts.
 
I posted this in another thread but I’m convinced it’s accurate.


Here’s the problem, this isn’t a sprint and it’s over. The number of sick will double every four days. In a month practically everyone on this board will have been exposed to someone who is infected. Exposure meaning going to a place where an infected person has been. This isn’t going to last a few weeks or even a few months. This will last 6 months. Maybe more.

China hasn’t defeated this virus. Once they ease the quarantines and re-open the factories the virus will once again begin to spread.

11 1 minute ago
 
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Because it's unworkable for a high percentage of working parents, and like lawpoke said elsewhere, it's not as if this is a one month phenomenon. The spread of the virus is not something that we're going to stop and certainly not by keeping kids out of school for a few weeks and then sending them back.
 
Insanegate Blame it all on the Democrats.

You funny!

Keep talkin', your amusing the board more with every word. Talk more about the assassination attempts.
Can you explain why Angela Merkel was in Wuhan, China in September of 2019 with President Xi visiting all the medical facilities/hospitals? Are these two people fond of President Trump? Hell, Merkel is the daughter of Hitler. These people don’t care about the people of their countries they only care about power & money.

It’s funny you say “blame it all on the democrats” because look at what the democrats are responsible for in their large cities like San Francisco, Chicago, Philadelphia, NYC etc. Crime is rampant thanks to DAs like Krasner in Philly or Foxx in Chicago or the new SF guy I forget his name but he is the son of the Weather Underground terrorists... it’s also due to crazy new laws like no cash bail in NYC or not prosecuting people for theft of items less than $1,000. These places are more than lenient on criminals & they are letting their cities fall apart.

It is not the job of the government to take care of you. The job of the government is to keep evil away. It’s literally to punish evil within the country (if not eliminate it entirely) & keep evil outside of the country from gaining entry or encroaching.
 
Because it's unworkable for a high percentage of working parents, and like lawpoke said elsewhere, it's not as if this is a one month phenomenon. The spread of the virus is not something that we're going to stop and certainly not by keeping kids out of school for a few weeks and then sending them back.
Better than dead. WIth the number of known cases the US has in Washington, that is almost exactly the point of known cases that China began its massive quarantine program. I have kids and it will be a major upheaval, but I expect it sooner or later. My wife is an ICU nurse, and I fully expect she will be working every day and quarantining herself in the guest room at nights while I stay home with some stir crazy kids.


China is beginning to relax some of its strict quarantine rules, but they aren't going away until the virus is eradicated. Otherwise you are right, you just have to do it all over again when it gets reintroduced.

The virus has been shown to have about a 1% fatality rate IF people are treated appropriately. It goes to ~4% when hospitals get overwhelmed and people die in the aisles and hallways. And if you think that is overblown, that is exactly what is happening in Italy right now. Read this, seriously:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020...rk-warning-from-italys-coronavirus-epicentre/

The US is about ten days behind Italy in terms of the log growth of this virus. The time to act is right now. Maybe in Oklahoma it doesn't make sense to close schools yet, but it does in many places. And at some point very soon, it probably will in Oklahoma too.


An Italian doctor as translated and quoted in the article:


"After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible.

"I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder."

"I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly 'emptied', elective activities were interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

"All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

"I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

"The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

"The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

"Now, explain to me which flu virus causes such a rapid drama. [post continues comparing Covid19 to flu, link here]. And while there are still people who boast of not being afraid by ignoring directions, protesting because their normal routine is 'temporarily' put in crisis, the epidemiological disaster is taking place. And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

"Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

"Reasons for the access always the same: fever and breathing difficulties, fever and cough, respiratory failure. Radiology reports always the same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia. All to be hospitalized.

"Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

"The staff is exhausted. I saw the tiredness on faces that didn't know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us, who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask, 'What can I do for you now?'

"Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can't save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.

"There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols.

"Some of our colleagues who are infected also have infected relatives and some of their relatives are already struggling between life and death. So be patient, you can't go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.

"We just try to make ourselves useful. You should do the same: we influence the life and death of a few dozen people. You with yours, many more. Please share this message. We must spread the word to prevent what is happening here from happening all over Italy.

"I finish by saying that I really don't understand this war on panic. The only reason I see is mask shortages, but there's no mask on sale anymore. We don't have a lot of studies, but is it panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?"
 
And another doctor from the same region, and also quote in the article:

"I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.

First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.

The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity.

We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed."
 
Can you explain why Angela Merkel was in Wuhan, China in September of 2019 with President Xi visiting all the medical facilities/hospitals? Are these two people fond of President Trump? Hell, Merkel is the daughter of Hitler. These people don’t care about the people of their countries they only care about power & money.

It’s funny you say “blame it all on the democrats” because look at what the democrats are responsible for in their large cities like San Francisco, Chicago, Philadelphia, NYC etc. Crime is rampant thanks to DAs like Krasner in Philly or Foxx in Chicago or the new SF guy I forget his name but he is the son of the Weather Underground terrorists... it’s also due to crazy new laws like no cash bail in NYC or not prosecuting people for theft of items less than $1,000. These places are more than lenient on criminals & they are letting their cities fall apart.

It is not the job of the government to take care of you. The job of the government is to keep evil away. It’s literally to punish evil within the country (if not eliminate it entirely) & keep evil outside of the country from gaining entry or encroaching.
I try to give a lot of leeway to people that have a different perspective or a different philosophy than me. I constantly remind myself that most people are genuinely good people that want the best for everyone, and we may disagree what that looks like. You challenge that notion with your inane prattle. Please shut the hell up.
 
Better than dead. WIth the number of known cases the US has in Washington, that is almost exactly the point of known cases that China began its massive quarantine program. I have kids and it will be a major upheaval, but I expect it sooner or later. My wife is an ICU nurse, and I fully expect she will be working every day and quarantining herself in the guest room at nights while I stay home with some stir crazy kids.


China is beginning to relax some of its strict quarantine rules, but they aren't going away until the virus is eradicated. Otherwise you are right, you just have to do it all over again when it gets reintroduced.

The virus has been shown to have about a 1% fatality rate IF people are treated appropriately. It goes to ~4% when hospitals get overwhelmed and people die in the aisles and hallways. And if you think that is overblown, that is exactly what is happening in Italy right now. Read this, seriously:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020...rk-warning-from-italys-coronavirus-epicentre/

The US is about ten days behind Italy in terms of the log growth of this virus. The time to act is right now. Maybe in Oklahoma it doesn't make sense to close schools yet, but it does in many places. And at some point very soon, it probably will in Oklahoma too.


An Italian doctor as translated and quoted in the article:


"After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible.

"I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder."

"I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly 'emptied', elective activities were interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

"All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

"I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

"The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

"The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

"Now, explain to me which flu virus causes such a rapid drama. [post continues comparing Covid19 to flu, link here]. And while there are still people who boast of not being afraid by ignoring directions, protesting because their normal routine is 'temporarily' put in crisis, the epidemiological disaster is taking place. And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

"Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

"Reasons for the access always the same: fever and breathing difficulties, fever and cough, respiratory failure. Radiology reports always the same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia. All to be hospitalized.

"Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

"The staff is exhausted. I saw the tiredness on faces that didn't know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us, who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask, 'What can I do for you now?'

"Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can't save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.

"There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols.

"Some of our colleagues who are infected also have infected relatives and some of their relatives are already struggling between life and death. So be patient, you can't go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.

"We just try to make ourselves useful. You should do the same: we influence the life and death of a few dozen people. You with yours, many more. Please share this message. We must spread the word to prevent what is happening here from happening all over Italy.

"I finish by saying that I really don't understand this war on panic. The only reason I see is mask shortages, but there's no mask on sale anymore. We don't have a lot of studies, but is it panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?"

I get what you're saying, and maybe you're right. I really wouldn't want to be the one making these decisions. It's just kind of seems unavoidable to me that this stuff will make its way through most of our population eventually. The US govt won't and legally can't enact the totalitarian measures that China did. The best we can do is "voluntary quarantine" for people who haven't yet been shown to have the illness. People are going to keep going out, they're going to keep having big events (I have a wedding to attend in 3 weeks) and it's still going to spread rapidly. The number of people who actually have it right now, compared to the number who we know have it, is probably insanely high.
 
I try to give a lot of leeway to people that have a different perspective or a different philosophy than me. I constantly remind myself that most people are genuinely good people that want the best for everyone, and we may disagree what that looks like. You challenge that notion with your inane prattle. Please shut the hell up.

There is an "ignore" button on this site that enables one to not see posts from posters that one selects.
 
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Better than dead. WIth the number of known cases the US has in Washington, that is almost exactly the point of known cases that China began its massive quarantine program. I have kids and it will be a major upheaval, but I expect it sooner or later. My wife is an ICU nurse, and I fully expect she will be working every day and quarantining herself in the guest room at nights while I stay home with some stir crazy kids.


China is beginning to relax some of its strict quarantine rules, but they aren't going away until the virus is eradicated. Otherwise you are right, you just have to do it all over again when it gets reintroduced.

The virus has been shown to have about a 1% fatality rate IF people are treated appropriately. It goes to ~4% when hospitals get overwhelmed and people die in the aisles and hallways. And if you think that is overblown, that is exactly what is happening in Italy right now. Read this, seriously:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020...rk-warning-from-italys-coronavirus-epicentre/

The US is about ten days behind Italy in terms of the log growth of this virus. The time to act is right now. Maybe in Oklahoma it doesn't make sense to close schools yet, but it does in many places. And at some point very soon, it probably will in Oklahoma too.


An Italian doctor as translated and quoted in the article:


"After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible.

"I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder."

"I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly 'emptied', elective activities were interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

"All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

"I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

"The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

"The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

"Now, explain to me which flu virus causes such a rapid drama. [post continues comparing Covid19 to flu, link here]. And while there are still people who boast of not being afraid by ignoring directions, protesting because their normal routine is 'temporarily' put in crisis, the epidemiological disaster is taking place. And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

"Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

"Reasons for the access always the same: fever and breathing difficulties, fever and cough, respiratory failure. Radiology reports always the same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia. All to be hospitalized.

"Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

"The staff is exhausted. I saw the tiredness on faces that didn't know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us, who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask, 'What can I do for you now?'

"Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can't save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.

"There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols.

"Some of our colleagues who are infected also have infected relatives and some of their relatives are already struggling between life and death. So be patient, you can't go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.

"We just try to make ourselves useful. You should do the same: we influence the life and death of a few dozen people. You with yours, many more. Please share this message. We must spread the word to prevent what is happening here from happening all over Italy.

"I finish by saying that I really don't understand this war on panic. The only reason I see is mask shortages, but there's no mask on sale anymore. We don't have a lot of studies, but is it panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?"
Trump was very upset that people were flown back from both Italy & the cruise ships without his signing off on it & giving the OK first.
 
And another doctor from the same region, and also quote in the article:

"I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.

First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.

The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity.

We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed."
I have a close friend that lives 20 min outside of Wuhan (luckily he hasn’t been back there over the past 9-10 weeks but he has remained in the region from the Philippines to Thailand to Singapore to Hong Kong) & I’ve been begging him to leave the region & now he can’t go anywhere without being quarantined for at least 20 days. I would feel bad because now he’s asking to come to the USA but I can’t do anything about it at this point. I knew it was coming.

China has allowed doctors/nurses/journalists that shared information early on to not only contract the virus but later die from it. It is indeed as serious as it gets.
 
I try to give a lot of leeway to people that have a different perspective or a different philosophy than me. I constantly remind myself that most people are genuinely good people that want the best for everyone, and we may disagree what that looks like. You challenge that notion with your inane prattle. Please shut the hell up.
“I’d hate to be a dick but I’m going to make an exception.” Keep up with the rat race, my friend! Don’t fall too far behind!
 
There is an "ignore" button on this site that enables one to not see posts from posters that one selects.
I enjoy not having to click on that “ignore button” because I know I don’t have to read any post whatsoever. By choosing to ignore a user because of their posts triggering me I would be giving into an inferiority complex (which I don’t have) or at a minimum not allowing myself the strength to simply scroll past the posts of a user for whom I don’t care. Then I’d be a pussy. Luckily, I don’t care & am confident enough to read it all but I reserve my right to “change the channel” & scroll past any post. Lol it’s funny but it really is so sad to realize how many people are caught up with their own lives that they have become this soft.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times & good times create WEAK MEN! The cycle continues...
 
I get what you're saying, and maybe you're right. I really wouldn't want to be the one making these decisions. It's just kind of seems unavoidable to me that this stuff will make its way through most of our population eventually. The US govt won't and legally can't enact the totalitarian measures that China did. The best we can do is "voluntary quarantine" for people who haven't yet been shown to have the illness. People are going to keep going out, they're going to keep having big events (I have a wedding to attend in 3 weeks) and it's still going to spread rapidly. The number of people who actually have it right now, compared to the number who we know have it, is probably insanely high.

Absolutely agree with that.

At some point you have to weigh potentially disastrous economic effects with the potential for serious loss of life and try to make a weighted decision. It's not one to make lightly. Either way, people will suffer, and people will die.
 
I get what you're saying, and maybe you're right. I really wouldn't want to be the one making these decisions. It's just kind of seems unavoidable to me that this stuff will make its way through most of our population eventually. The US govt won't and legally can't enact the totalitarian measures that China did. The best we can do is "voluntary quarantine" for people who haven't yet been shown to have the illness. People are going to keep going out, they're going to keep having big events (I have a wedding to attend in 3 weeks) and it's still going to spread rapidly. The number of people who actually have it right now, compared to the number who we know have it, is probably insanely high.
They’re doing it right now in New Rochelle, NY...

Fortunately, we have rights in the USA. So there is some truth to that, but don’t get ahead of yourself. It is completely possible for martial law to be enacted if the citizenry is willing to submit to it.

The worst part about this possibility is the fact that so many people in the USA would actually trust the government to take care of them. The government is not responsible for your care. You are responsible for your safety. That’s one of, if not the best things about being so blessed to be a citizen of the USA. I get that you want to blame the government for COVID-19 being in the USA & about to spread like crazy, but it’s not the government’s fault - it’s the fault of the irresponsible people who left areas of the world where people were already infected for returning to the USA without caring about the moral hazard of their own actions.
 
Absolutely agree with that.

At some point you have to weigh potentially disastrous economic effects with the potential for serious loss of life and try to make a weighted decision. It's not one to make lightly. Either way, people will suffer, and people will die.
The President wanted to make that decision weeks ago & unfortunately was not notified until after the fact that people were allowed to return to the USA after being in areas where people were infected.
 
I get what you're saying, and maybe you're right. I really wouldn't want to be the one making these decisions. It's just kind of seems unavoidable to me that this stuff will make its way through most of our population eventually. The US govt won't and legally can't enact the totalitarian measures that China did. The best we can do is "voluntary quarantine" for people who haven't yet been shown to have the illness. People are going to keep going out, they're going to keep having big events (I have a wedding to attend in 3 weeks) and it's still going to spread rapidly. The number of people who actually have it right now, compared to the number who we know have it, is probably insanely high.
This is not true at all. If the US gov wants to enact a quarantine in a US city, they will call out the national guard and do so. If you think the fed's aren't willing to declare martial law on a city just like Wuhan, you might be surprised.
 
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This is not true at all. If the US gov wants to enact a quarantine in a US city, they will call out the national guard and do so. If you think the fed's aren't willing to declare martial law on a city just like Wuhan, you might be surprised.

The constitution is pretty specific about it. Would an administration go beyond it? I'm sure under certain circumstances they would, but not for an illness that presents mildly for the vast majority of people.
 
The constitution is pretty specific about it. Would an administration go beyond it? I'm sure under certain circumstances they would, but not for an illness that presents mildly for the vast majority of people.
The constitution is vague about pretty much everything.

I think the president / congress could absolutely enforce a quarantine on a city, and they would probably do it prior to asking the SCOTUS for permission. My argument would be that the ever broad and ever powerful commerce clause gives the government the power to enforce movement of people and goods across state lines. If they could argue that spreading illness in one state was going to harm commerce in another state, they could enforce a quarantine in pretty much whichever city they wanted.
 
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I don't need to, because it doesn't say it anywhere.

I really don't understand why you have to be this way all the time. Martial law means you'll be suspending habeas corpus. The constitution specifies the circumstances under which that can be done. Not mentioned: other people getting sick.
 
I really don't understand why you have to be this way all the time. Martial law means you'll be suspending habeas corpus. The constitution specifies the circumstances under which that can be done. Not mentioned: other people getting sick.
The extension has been made that the federal government is allowed to suspend habeus corpus in reaction to pandemics (by the SC). Right now, the feds defer the imposition of quarantines to the states, but they do have it on the books that the Health Secretary has the authority to enforce measures on those posing risks for the spread of illness to other states. The feds have just chosen to defer that right to the states. If things get bad enough, I don't think there's a president who has presided that would think twice about sending troops into a city to quarantine it. They might ask congress for some extra legal authority to do so, but they're not going to wait for a court case to say they can. They would hold up the commerce clause, and the safety of the rest of the states if asked about problems with Habeus Corpus.
 
I really don't understand why you have to be this way all the time. Martial law means you'll be suspending habeas corpus. The constitution specifies the circumstances under which that can be done. Not mentioned: other people getting sick.
It's been done for fire and earthquake, otherwise known as a national emergency. Was that to stop looting as the justification, or to insure the safety of the residents from fire, dangerous buildings, downed electrical lines, etc. It would not be too much of a swing, to call a potentially deadly illness a danger just like fire, downed electrical lines, etc.
 
I'm reminded of a quote from one of my favorite movies:

Ariadne:"Didn't Cobb say never to do that."
Arthur:"Hmm. So now you've noticed how much time Cobb spends doing things he says never to do."
 
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