Can Tulsa ever be successful (more wins than losses) in D1?

[goldenhurricane2]

I agree! If we can find a Matt Rhule like Temple and Baylor did, but the odds are against us.

we were MUCH closer to dropping to FCS in 2001-2002 than we are now. Since then TU has upgraded nearly every athletic venue on campus, increased salaries for coaches, and improved the fan experience.

if a coach like Steve kragthorpe can come in and take the 2002 Tulsa team and turn it into an 8 win team in 2003, there is plenty of hope for what we have going on at TU right now.

I get that people are frustrated and disappointed. I am too. But the TU will be ok as long as the admin makes smart decisions... that’s the part I’m concerned about.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I get that people are frustrated and disappointed. I am too. But the TU will be ok as long as the admin makes smart decisions... that’s the part I’m concerned about.

That's my only concern. I have very little faith in the administration both on the academic side & the sports side. The administration is in a state now that might be the worst it has been at TU, in a time that TU is likely in it's most vulnerable state ever. It's not a time I want to rely on the administration for any decisions.

 

[Hurricane Drummer]

S

That's my only concern. I have very little faith in the administration both on the academic side & the sports side. The administration is in a state now that might be the worst it has been at TU, in a time that TU is likely in it's most vulnerable state ever. It's not a time I want to rely on the administration for any decisions.

Storm the admin. They can't stop us all.

 

[HuffyCane]

Calm the Houston down. It may not be tomorrow, but the same people that made Steve Kragthorpe a thing are on campus or in meetings regularly. It’s gonna be OK. Their voice wasn’t heard when we hired Montgomery but they look darn smart now

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Calm the Houston down. It may not be tomorrow, but the same people that made Steve Kragthorpe a thing are on campus or in meetings regularly. It’s gonna be OK. Their voice wasn’t heard when we hired Montgomery but they look darn smart now

Do you know if Montgomery was Gragg's candidate, Steadham's candidate, or if it was initially a mutual thing.

 

[rusty-c]

Do you know if Montgomery was Gragg's candidate, Steadham's candidate, or if it was initially a mutual thing.

Translation was it Gragg’s or Stead’s or both’s screwup hire.

 

[HuffyCane]

Do you know if Montgomery was Gragg's candidate, Steadham's candidate, or if it was initially a mutual thing.

100% Stead

 

[jerandlaur]

Translation was it Gragg’s or Stead’s or both’s screwup hire.

Everyone on this board was excited about the Monty hire so don’t try to blame a screw up hire on anyone. He clearly had the appearance of an offensive genius at Baylor and if we hadn’t hired him someone would have. The only question about him was that he had never been away from Briles but he knew the Briles system and was calling all of the plays. The screw up wasn’t the hire the screw up was over evaluating his first two seasons and now giving him too long.

 

[TU Pilot]

Everyone on this board was excited about the Monty hire so don’t try to blame a screw up hire on anyone. He clearly had the appearance of an offensive genius at Baylor and if we hadn’t hired him someone would have. The only question about him was that he had never been away from Briles but he knew the Briles system and was calling all of the plays. The screw up wasn’t the hire the screw up was over evaluating his first two seasons and now giving him too long.

Uh, I wasn't excited about him. And I'm pretty sure there were a couple of others that pointed out he didn't call the plays and had never been an HC. That being said, I don't think anyone thought it would be quite this bad, so point taken.

 

[jerandlaur]

Uh, I wasn't excited about him. And I'm pretty sure there were a couple of others that pointed out he didn't call the plays and had never been an HC. That being said, I don't think anyone thought it would be quite this bad, so point taken.

Actually, he did call the plays at Baylor.

 

[HuffyCane]

Actually, he did call the plays at Baylor.

He called they plays the last two years he was there after a series of OC departures. He had been on staff substantially longer than those OC dating back to the high school days. Briles monitored the calls and could veto.

 

[jerandlaur]

He called they plays the last two years he was there after a series of OC departures. He had been on staff substantially longer than those OC dating back to the high school days. Briles monitored the calls and could veto.

Which is the case with every head coach.

 

[astonmartin708]

When Monty was hired he was part of a 3 man "recruiting class" so to speak. Him, Chad Morris, and Tod Herman were the star coordinators in college that offseason. We got one of the three, and to be honest none of them turned out to be landscape changing hires for any of our programs (Though all had varying degrees of success).

Very few people were upset by the Monty hire outside of the crap that Baylor had going on behind the scenes in terms of player / staff misconduct. To this point, Monty hasn't shown any propensity for that kind of stuff at Tulsa. He just hasn't coached well enough.

We probably should have let him walk after the Miami Beach Bowl... but we thought we might finally have a coach worth retaining. Turns out we were wrong. Hindsight is 20/20. Let's just move on.

 

[HuffyCane]

Some of us thought his veer gimmicks were questionable at best at the college level without an elite QB, something TU would never have, so it was a bad idea from the beginning. I love watching Houston lose. I really loved watching Houston lose when Briles was there for just this reason.

 

[astonmartin708]

Some of us thought his veer gimmicks were questionable at best at the college level without an elite QB, something TU would never have, so it was a bad idea from the beginning. I love watching Houston lose. I really loved watching Houston lose when Briles was there for just this reason.

I don't think you're correct about this. The problem with this offense isn't the offense in relation to the QB. It's the fact that the constant Hurry-Up puts a strain on your own team's defense and it makes it hard to hold leads. There are several schools that have run this without "Elite" QB's and have had success on offense. Tulsa with Dane is one example. Babers at Bowling Green and last year at Syracuse is another example.

 

[Barlass]

I don't know what your definition of elite is, but Dane is killing it in the second highest level of professional American football in the world.

 

[astonmartin708]

I don't know what your definition of elite is, but Dane is killing it in the second highest level of professional American football in the world.

No offense to Dane, but he wasn't even the first string QB on his own CFL team to start the season. Even if he had been, comparing the CFL to the NFL is like comparing MLS to the Premier League. Just not the same level of talent.

 

[HuffyCane]

I don't know what your definition of elite is, but Dane is killing it in the second highest level of professional American football in the world.

Exactly. And he didn’t come to this school for this offense. And other than a QB that Baylor didn’t want for this offense and another one, we’ve attracted jack players to this school to hand off to our RB committee.

 

[HuffyCane]

I don't think you're correct about this. The problem with this offense isn't the offense in relation to the QB. It's the fact that the constant Hurry-Up puts a strain on your own team's defense and it makes it hard to hold leads. There are several schools that have run this without "Elite" QB's and have had success on offense. Tulsa with Dane is one example. Babers at Bowling Green and last year at Syracuse is another example.

Babers had Jimmy Garoppolo hardly a good example.

 

[astonmartin708]

Babers had Jimmy Garoppolo hardly a good example.

Babers had Garoppolo at Eastern Illinois. Not at Bowling Green or Syracuse. And that was in the FCS.

 

[astonmartin708]

Exactly. And he didn’t come to this school for this offense. And other than a QB that Baylor didn’t want for this offense and another one, we’ve attracted jack players to this school to hand off to our RB committee.

No, he came to the school for Bill Blankenship's run heavy offense that didn't feature the QB.... what's your point?

 

[TU Pilot]

Actually, he did call the plays at Baylor.

Fair enough. Still don't like him.

 

[TulsaGrad07]

I don't know what your definition of elite is, but Dane is killing it in the second highest level of professional American football in the world.

One of the reasons we had a 10 win season "under Monty's watch" was that Dane was allowed to call plays and use the hurry-up-no-huddle on the field. I give Dane the credit for that season's success instead of the HC. What he lacked in dexterity and athleticism, he made up for in his being cerebral and actually LEARNING from his mistakes. I gave that guy so much grief his second year as a QB. Shame on me...

 

[TigerCane16]

One of the reasons we had a 10 win season "under Monty's watch" was that Dane was allowed to call plays and use the hurry-up-no-huddle on the field. I give Dane the credit for that season's success instead of the HC. What he lacked in dexterity and athleticism, he made up for in his being cerebral and actually LEARNING from his mistakes. I gave that guy so much grief his second year as a QB. Shame on me...

I did, too. I was dreading his exit by the time the 2016 season was over.

 

[astonmartin708]

Monty notes in one of his press conferences that Smith was allowed the ability to make adjustments at the line as well. I have seen him calling things at the line.

 

[TU 1978]

We currently run a poorly executed high school offense. We wish we had the old offense that Malzahn ran.

 

[DoorMan]

Monty notes in one of his press conferences that Smith was allowed the ability to make adjustments at the line as well. I have seen him calling things at the line.

He has two options. It's not like we get lined up and he calls the play.

Little Phillip doesn't even allow his position coaches to make changes during the game. No way he gives his QB that ability.

 

[Raisin_Cane]

He has two options. It's not like we get lined up and he calls the play.

Little Phillip doesn't even allow his position coaches to make changes during the game. No way he gives his QB that ability.

Well you’re wrong there. I very clearly remember Smith reading the defense on a play against SMU and then making adjustments to receiver routes. It ended up with the receiver running a quick out from the slot to pick up the first down. He’s been doing it all season, that’s just the first example that comes to mind because the hand signals were easy to see on tv.

 

[DoorMan]

Well you’re wrong there. I very clearly remember Smith reading the defense on a play against SMU and then making adjustments to receiver routes. It ended up with the receiver running a quick out from the slot to pick up the first down. He’s been doing it all season, that’s just the first example that comes to mind because the hand signals were easy to see on tv.

Almost all our routes are option routes. Your're confusing him making sure the receiver was seeing the same thing he was seeing with him changing the play.

 

[HuffyCane]

Almost all our routes are option routes. Your're confusing him making sure the receiver was seeing the same thing he was seeing with him changing the play.

This is exactly right. See previous thread regarding WR choice routes before the season started. The route can even change on some plays after the ball is snapped.

 

[HuffyCane]

One of the reasons we had a 10 win season "under Monty's watch" was that Dane was allowed to call plays and use the hurry-up-no-huddle on the field. I give Dane the credit for that season's success instead of the HC. What he lacked in dexterity and athleticism, he made up for in his being cerebral and actually LEARNING from his mistakes. I gave that guy so much grief his second year as a QB. Shame on me...

Dane has said in interviews he couldn’t audible to his own play until the last six games of his season year.

 

[Hurricane Drummer]

Personally I think the biggest problem this season is the O line. If we had the line we did the last several years this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[TigerCane16]

We currently run a poorly executed high school offense. We wish we had the old offense that Malzahn ran.

I actually came back to this thread to say the same exact thing, in a slightly different way. With Gus, we were running at an extremely fast pace, too. Paul and Dave simply knew what they were doing and we torched almost every single opponent we played. Sure, Gus' calls in the Arky game in '08 still irritate me to this day --- but, a lot of that seems to come with the mentality we (coaches, admin, fans, AND players) have taken on since 2000, in that our guys beating OU/OSU/Arky/etc. is a white whale of sorts. I remember when I was a kid playing the "big guys" wasn't about "exposure"; it was about making noise and shutting their largely intolerable fans up. We seem to have lost that edge in this new era, for the most part. It is the only thing that one should consider giving to Monty; he has had them believing they can win those games again. That said, where are the wins to show for it? Todd and Bill had two amazing teams playing against two of the worst in Arky history and still took the L.

 

[Buzzy56]

Personally I think the biggest problem this season is the O line. If we had the line we did the last several years this thread wouldn't exist.

You are right on, if Tulsa's O line could give Zach Smith 5-7 seconds he'd pick apart any defense you'd put in front of him!
He's good folks but you can see he can't throw the ball with four guys hanging on him all night!

 

[TU1NNJ]

No time to audible at the line by the QB because the play comes in from sideline with less than 12 seconds (sometimes less than 10) on the play clock.

 

[nevadanatural]

You are right on, if Tulsa's O line could give Zach Smith 5-7 seconds he'd pick apart any defense you'd put in front of him!
He's good folks but you can see he can't throw the ball with four guys hanging on him all night!

I’m sorry, 5-7 seconds is an eternity in the pocket. Count it off, can you imagine blocking that long? If he needs that long he better practice some evasive maneuvers and throwing on the run.

 

[TU_BLA]

How would we know unless we replace him? We've had coaches in the past that turned the program around and in short order. Fresh blood is needed at the coaching ranks. Badly! And you really don't wanna see Tulsa demoted out of FBS football. This is a team that used to win games and upset top 25 teams. It was glorious. My best memories as a kid was Tulsa beating Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma etc. That's worth holding on to.

We should have beaten 2 top 25 teams this year already.

Fickel said it well when he said TU has a good football team. What TU lacks is a good head coach.

 

[TU_BLA]

I’m sorry, 5-7 seconds is an eternity in the pocket. Count it off, can you imagine blocking that long? If he needs that long he better practice some evasive maneuvers and throwing on the run.

A OL should only need to provide 3-4 seconds for a quality throw. One of our biggest problems is never having a hot route. Our RB is always asked to block and almost never releases when you see the pressure coming giving the QB a dump option. Usually 1 of the 2 slot WRs in 4 WR sets would be called upon to run a quick out or slant to provide a place to throw when the blitz comes.

Our biggest problem is lack of communication on the line itself. And our 2 tackles. The tackles are extremely slow footed and just get speed rushed to death. And because Monty likes to use guards at the tackle positions, their arms are a bit shorter and they can't even get a chip on them. Then we'll see a double team combo on a DT while a LB comes straight up the middle unmolested. And, the style of offense actually puts our OL at a disadvantage run blocking. If every play needs to look like it can also be a pass, they're not firing off the ball to get a push upfield for the RB. There are just a number of philosophical flaws to this offense if you don't have P5 talent running it and it has to be more than just the skill positions. I feel like the skill guys have played well this year overall. But if you have guys on the OL not equipped with exceptional OL tools including punch, feet, hips, drop step, etc., you will struggle.

 

[Hurricane Drummer]

The philo

A OL should only need to provide 3-4 seconds for a quality throw. One of our biggest problems is never having a hot route. Our RB is always asked to block and almost never releases when you see the pressure coming giving the QB a dump option. Usually 1 of the 2 slot WRs in 4 WR sets would be called upon to run a quick out or slant to provide a place to throw when the blitz comes.

Our biggest problem is lack of communication on the line itself. And our 2 tackles. The tackles are extremely slow footed and just get speed rushed to death. And because Monty likes to use guards at the tackle positions, their arms are a bit shorter and they can't even get a chip on them. Then we'll see a double team combo on a DT while a LB comes straight up the middle unmolested. And, the style of offense actually puts our OL at a disadvantage run blocking. If every play needs to look like it can also be a pass, they're not firing off the ball to get a push upfield for the RB. There are just a number of philosophical flaws to this offense if you don't have P5 talent running it and it has to be more than just the skill positions. I feel like the skill guys have played well this year overall. But if you have guys on the OL not equipped with exceptional OL tools including punch, feet, hips, drop step, etc., you will struggle.

The philosophy hasn't changed in 5 years. The O line was fine as far as I can remember up until this year. The problem is we have young guys, and maybe less talent on the line this year. Maybe the coaches need to dumb things down for them, but I don't think it's a philosophy problem.

 

[TU4ever2]

The philo

The philosophy hasn't changed in 5 years. The O line was fine as far as I can remember up until this year. The problem is we have young guys, and maybe less talent on the line this year. Maybe the coaches need to dumb things down for them, but I don't think it's a philosophy problem.

Go look through the game threads from last year, we were all complaining about the line. We expected them to be good. They weren't.

The line looked good for two seasons (Dane's last year and the following year) the other seasons have mostly been questionable with occasional good play rolled in.