Attendance Concerns?
- Thread starter Babe the Blue Ox
- Start date
If the demand is not there at $20 perhaps the price is too high.
I think I've figured out the problem.
Our director of ticket sales is Mike Pence.
http://ev10.evenue.net/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/EVExecMacro?linkID=tulsa&evm=cont
Our director of ticket sales is Mike Pence.
http://ev10.evenue.net/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/EVExecMacro?linkID=tulsa&evm=cont
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If TU put a band product on the field the quality that Union and BA do I would be more supportive of the TU band. This past week's performance of Lady Gaga park and blow was disinteresting and crap. (I am a former HS band geek and marched competitive drum and bugle corps). I know I got on Prof. Grass about recycling the same 5-6 Blue Devils and Madison songs every year, but at least it drew out some musicality from the students in the band...right now...just EWWW.
That explains why the additional fees on tickets are so high. It used to be just Shawn and a couple of student workers doing tickets
I have held season tickets since graduating from TU. Often my wife has to work on weekends and cant' go, so I bring all kinds of friends to the games. Lately, it has gotten difficult to give the extra ticket away. People just don't give a damn about Tulsa football and are happy to sit at home and watch Big U vs. Other Big U on TV.
If we became top 25 successful for several years in a row, I think that would change. See Houston, Boise, or East Carolina when they were "giant slayers". Or see Baylor attendance and new stadium the last ~5 years, Texas Tech a decade ago, Kansas when they were capable of winning a game. Winning helps, and Tulsa is a town that notoriously hops on the band wagon.
BUT --- almost no one cares whether the Drillers are any good. Ask most people what the Drillers record is and they won't have a clue. Ask them if they won the last game they attended, no idea. Ask how good the opponent is and you'll get a blank stare. It isn't the reason people go to the ballpark and baseball season runs through the Oklahoma summer, is an inherently more boring sport than football, and the Driller's don't play at the highest level or even play teams that play at the highest level.
Cheap beer night. Hot dog night. Fireworks. Splash pads and play ground equipment for kids. Funny promotions during breaks. Group packages that are more than just admission. Viewing areas that aren't just a seat and don't necessarily require a $10k a year contribution.
If the Driller's can do it, Tulsa can do it.
If we became top 25 successful for several years in a row, I think that would change. See Houston, Boise, or East Carolina when they were "giant slayers". Or see Baylor attendance and new stadium the last ~5 years, Texas Tech a decade ago, Kansas when they were capable of winning a game. Winning helps, and Tulsa is a town that notoriously hops on the band wagon.
BUT --- almost no one cares whether the Drillers are any good. Ask most people what the Drillers record is and they won't have a clue. Ask them if they won the last game they attended, no idea. Ask how good the opponent is and you'll get a blank stare. It isn't the reason people go to the ballpark and baseball season runs through the Oklahoma summer, is an inherently more boring sport than football, and the Driller's don't play at the highest level or even play teams that play at the highest level.
Cheap beer night. Hot dog night. Fireworks. Splash pads and play ground equipment for kids. Funny promotions during breaks. Group packages that are more than just admission. Viewing areas that aren't just a seat and don't necessarily require a $10k a year contribution.
If the Driller's can do it, Tulsa can do it.
I used to work for Major League Baseball in their marketing department for minor leagues. Jesse is exactly right. MLB has paid a lot of money over the years for polling. We knew that close to 70 percent of the people leaving some minor league stadiums had no idea or interest in who won.
Literally, they watched the game. The game ended. They got up and before they could get out of the stadium, they were stopped and asked who won and around 70 percent in some stadiums, but almost always over 50 percent in all the others, were unable to answer who won.
The overwhelming answer to why they were there was that they felt some obligation or satisfaction observing the tradition of going to games with their kids. "my parents took me" was up there too.
After that, it was a long list of amenities that the park offered that other entertainment venues in the area didnt have and that was almost always site specific. That's always been my beef with the lazy marketing of TU and the cheap tickets, veterans tickets, bring a can of food day, etc. People will pay more if you offer more. Simply lowering your price for the same experience is self-defeating. That was Bubba's big flaw with the stadium reduction. There simply isn't any empirical evidence to support that if you decrease stadium size that demand will go up, if all other factors remain constant. I thought it was a good idea to reduce the stadium size for other reasons. I thought it was a bad idea to put nearly all their money into enhancing the fan experience for a small number of elite supporters. They only did half the project they needed to do -- mostly because they had the political problem of having to fund other sports at the same time. Now we have a smaller stadium, aging suites, and no increase in attendance to drive further improvements.
Ten years ago, the KC Wiz couldn't get 1000 people to go to games for free. They built a modest facility that offered amenities and service and an atmosphere that other competing entertainment options didnt or couldn't offer. Every game is a sellout. Waiting list for season tickets going back years now. Same players, same league, same schedule, in a city with baseball, football, and countless other activities compete with it. Most of the people there know very little about soccer or maybe played up until middle school. They go for the atmosphere, the price point, and the amenities.
Winning helps, but winning alone will not help you these days with every game on TV. That's the problem with the folks that cling to the fantasy that all we need is another Nolan to get attendance back. Its a different age. FSU can't sell out. Three times as many people go to the game as enter the stadium. The rest sit in the parking lot and get drunk while the game is on Direct TV, go to a bar with A/C and cheap beer, or return home after the tailgate party and watch it on TV because they like that experience better. Or the view on HD TV is better than any seat they can afford. Or their wife won't sit in the sun anymore, yada yada.
UCF is building a swimming pool in their stadium with DJ etc., which is a common nightclub type experience here in Florida. Piss troughs and the same stale popcorn from the machine that has been there since my first game in the 70s won't cut it anymore -- no matter how cheap the ticket, how catchy the jingle, how good the team visiting, how many games you win, etc. You don't need large capital expenditures to offer clean porta potties, local brand food options, and other amenities. Heck, rent some lights so it isn't so gdamn dark walking out of the place at night. That creeps women out and they are increasingly driving discretionary spending.
TU is starting to get it, if for no other reason than the fans that squawk about changes like beer are aging out. It isn't that attendance is falling, in some cases, it literally is dying out.
Literally, they watched the game. The game ended. They got up and before they could get out of the stadium, they were stopped and asked who won and around 70 percent in some stadiums, but almost always over 50 percent in all the others, were unable to answer who won.
The overwhelming answer to why they were there was that they felt some obligation or satisfaction observing the tradition of going to games with their kids. "my parents took me" was up there too.
After that, it was a long list of amenities that the park offered that other entertainment venues in the area didnt have and that was almost always site specific. That's always been my beef with the lazy marketing of TU and the cheap tickets, veterans tickets, bring a can of food day, etc. People will pay more if you offer more. Simply lowering your price for the same experience is self-defeating. That was Bubba's big flaw with the stadium reduction. There simply isn't any empirical evidence to support that if you decrease stadium size that demand will go up, if all other factors remain constant. I thought it was a good idea to reduce the stadium size for other reasons. I thought it was a bad idea to put nearly all their money into enhancing the fan experience for a small number of elite supporters. They only did half the project they needed to do -- mostly because they had the political problem of having to fund other sports at the same time. Now we have a smaller stadium, aging suites, and no increase in attendance to drive further improvements.
Ten years ago, the KC Wiz couldn't get 1000 people to go to games for free. They built a modest facility that offered amenities and service and an atmosphere that other competing entertainment options didnt or couldn't offer. Every game is a sellout. Waiting list for season tickets going back years now. Same players, same league, same schedule, in a city with baseball, football, and countless other activities compete with it. Most of the people there know very little about soccer or maybe played up until middle school. They go for the atmosphere, the price point, and the amenities.
Winning helps, but winning alone will not help you these days with every game on TV. That's the problem with the folks that cling to the fantasy that all we need is another Nolan to get attendance back. Its a different age. FSU can't sell out. Three times as many people go to the game as enter the stadium. The rest sit in the parking lot and get drunk while the game is on Direct TV, go to a bar with A/C and cheap beer, or return home after the tailgate party and watch it on TV because they like that experience better. Or the view on HD TV is better than any seat they can afford. Or their wife won't sit in the sun anymore, yada yada.
UCF is building a swimming pool in their stadium with DJ etc., which is a common nightclub type experience here in Florida. Piss troughs and the same stale popcorn from the machine that has been there since my first game in the 70s won't cut it anymore -- no matter how cheap the ticket, how catchy the jingle, how good the team visiting, how many games you win, etc. You don't need large capital expenditures to offer clean porta potties, local brand food options, and other amenities. Heck, rent some lights so it isn't so gdamn dark walking out of the place at night. That creeps women out and they are increasingly driving discretionary spending.
TU is starting to get it, if for no other reason than the fans that squawk about changes like beer are aging out. It isn't that attendance is falling, in some cases, it literally is dying out.
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We are putting on a fireworks show this season. It's after the SMU game. Of course, that's the Friday game where a large number of potential customers already have their time committed to High School football.
TU needs to promote the hell outta that game as a happy hour TGIF family friendly tailgate with the beer garden and music, great fall weather and post game fireworks. Sell a single game family pack of tickets deal.
Speaking of promotion, I guess The Pint can't be bothered to promote pregame a bit in exchange for slapping up their logo and getting additional advertising on campus?
Eric Marshall would have cross promoted the heck out of tailgate.
Eric Marshall would have cross promoted the heck out of tailgate.
From the numbers showing up at the games (or more important not showing up) the demand is not there.
The MLB and various minor league teams have been working on the method and formula for getting people to buy their product for like 100 years. They know exactly what works and doesn't work. Its a very simple formula really. Offer superior entertainment options off the field while the event is going on. Tulsa offers just the team on the field and now some beer for the masses. That won't be enough.
I was actually impling that it would likely be against NCAA rules. Otherwise it would start an arms race with all the schools trying to compete with each other to market themselves locally at state and private institutions in their state. Everybody would want to say 'uck em.'
So using the low end ticket @ $20 and the announced attendance of 17k, that's $340k generated from ticket sales. (It is more than $340k since we're using the lowest ticket price and not a median)
I think we paid NCA&T $300k+.
Even with F&B its dangerously close to a break even or loss.
There HAS to be atmosphere and a compelling reason to buy a ticket when there is so much competition for weekend dollars.
I stated last year that doing a $5 ticket or lowering the ticket price does way more damage than good. The perceived value of a ticket becomes what you're charging.
I think we paid NCA&T $300k+.
Even with F&B its dangerously close to a break even or loss.
There HAS to be atmosphere and a compelling reason to buy a ticket when there is so much competition for weekend dollars.
I stated last year that doing a $5 ticket or lowering the ticket price does way more damage than good. The perceived value of a ticket becomes what you're charging.
JMO, but lowering the ticket in the end zone only would get more people to come to the game and maybe tease them later on to buy tickets in other parts of the stadium. Don't touch the other ticket prices.
Maybe, but when you make a move to devalue a ticket, you have to be prepared to stick with it. People pay their perceived value. If the demand is there it probably works to raise it later. If it isn't, you just ran off the people that perceived an endzone ticket being worth $5/10/20 the second you raise the ticket price.
We aren't just competing with OU & OSU & HS ball. We're competing with BOK, Cain's, Brady, Hard Rock, Riverspirit, Osage, Brookside, cherry street, downtown, lakes, festivals, etc...
There has to be a perceived value equal to or greater than your competition. That doesn't mean slap a bunch of slot machines in section 20, but it could mean providing a high level of energy the ENTIRE game to match the product on the field. DJ playing the the second action stops, shirt cannons firing into the crowd throughout the game, live music around all the tailgate spots, fireworks and pyro, make a production of the team taking the field, or a million other things that leave you absolutely adrenaline drained when the final whistle blows.
There has to be a perceived value equal to or greater than your competition. That doesn't mean slap a bunch of slot machines in section 20, but it could mean providing a high level of energy the ENTIRE game to match the product on the field. DJ playing the the second action stops, shirt cannons firing into the crowd throughout the game, live music around all the tailgate spots, fireworks and pyro, make a production of the team taking the field, or a million other things that leave you absolutely adrenaline drained when the final whistle blows.
I say don't change it for quite some time, raise it a little beyond the rate of inflation, maybe $7.50 in a couple of five years, etc. Don't see how you wouldn't at least break even with concessions. Keeping the end zone low on a constant basis, unless we start getting demand in other seats, doesn't seem like a bad venture for helping push up demand. Doing it for 8+ years likely would bring in some of the little tykes when they get of age.
Danny Manning ushered in some great changes in this regard for bball IMO. Games returned to being an absolute blast in all facets. (Advertising and pricing was still lacking but game atmosphere was doing its part.)
Or maybe trial cheap standing GA tickets the 8th St area too. Hipsters can wander around with their brewskis.
That works for me, I'm not a hipster thank god, but I stand there and watch part of the game on a semi regular basis. Cept, I don't know how many you could sell seeing as how that fence looking over the game gets pretty crowded with 15 or 20 people watching over it.
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Right...fireworks for a game on a Friday night that will kick at 7pm and last 4+ hours. Can't wait to hear the complaints from the neighborhoods on that one.
There are some really good suggestions in here. I also know that TU athletics as a whole tends to not really care about suggestions from fans who aren't donating $10k plus to the GHC. Anyone want to compile the list and send it to Dr. Gragg. Honestly, the people on the board are the truest of True Blue TU fans and they need to start there.
I have found it difficult to give tickets away to TU games. The Rice game a few years ago when we had to bust the 70 yard run play to come back and win and keep the CUSA championship drive going...I had to go to a wedding and I literally could not give away our 4 tickets.
I have found it difficult to give tickets away to TU games. The Rice game a few years ago when we had to bust the 70 yard run play to come back and win and keep the CUSA championship drive going...I had to go to a wedding and I literally could not give away our 4 tickets.
In 2002, the University allowed a Friday night game against OU only because it was scheduled for the week before the start of the High School football season. At the time we stated that we wouldn't schedule any Friday home games, even for TV purposes, if they conflicted with the HS season as they could negatively impact the attendance at the HS games.
I really think it's the other way around now.
I wonder what game the PA guy will do on 10/7: TU or BA?
I really think it's the other way around now.
I wonder what game the PA guy will do on 10/7: TU or BA?
Exactly. If the team is winning and the atmosphere is fun and exciting, you can fill the place up without a problem.
BA if we're lucky.
Does ORUVoice fill in for football? He's loud, clear and high energy.
To be clear, I think bball attendance is also disappointing. Couple of good crowds for the biggest names but lots of room for improvement. At least not embarrassing though.
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TU should be able to fund 200 scholarships for music so we can put a decent sized band on the field. The problem isn't the music, it's the small size and lack of taking our marching band seriously by TU and the fans. I was in the band at TU... other schools like OU, notre dame, Houston, Ohio state, and several others in our conference have great bands and schools and fans that support them. Shoot, people were audibly excited for the bands at all those places... at TU, we got laughed at and made fun of.
The band is a HUGE part of the college football experience, I wish TU realized that and made an effort to maximize their potential in that regard.
No. The first statement was how no one cares about the drillers. The second statement was do what the drillers do. If we do what the drillers do, we'all end up with the results that the drillers do. That's no crowd most days. The drillers can do whatever they want because they have no fees. The Dodgers pay for basically everything. Tulsa has to actually do things to make money and attach value to the experience. Value doesn't come with $5 tickets. It doesn't come with free tickets. It comes with buying in, financially and emotionally. We need to find ways to get people to do that. To see the name Tulsa as theirs, regardless of whether or or they went to the school, because they still have Tulsa in their address
Could they increase the cost of the "Gold Zone" tickets by $5 per seat (I'd have no problem paying that, but it's not just me sitting in those seats...) to offset the cost of lowering the endzone cost? People sit in those seats and seem like they're willing to pay $50, whereas no one sits in the other's and aren't willing to pay $20. Supply and demand principle. Or is that a dumb idea?
From a recent Tulsa World article:
"The University of Tulsa has gotten used to being a hot commodity.
Athletic director Derrick Gragg regularly fields calls from Power 5 programs across the country wanting to pay the Golden Hurricane to visit their stadiums.
“Schools are interested in playing us because they want a viable opponent,” Gragg said. “They want somebody their fans see as competitive. They know we’ve been competitive historically — nine bowl games in the last 12 years — so playing a school like ours helps their schedule.”
Days before playing powerhouse Ohio State in a 2:30 p.m. Saturday matchup televised nationally on ABC, Gragg received interest from another Big Ten school. TU recently signed off on a 2022 meeting with Ole Miss, a successful program in the SEC."
Anyone want to take a guess at the mystery Big 10 school? Nebraska?
"The University of Tulsa has gotten used to being a hot commodity.
Athletic director Derrick Gragg regularly fields calls from Power 5 programs across the country wanting to pay the Golden Hurricane to visit their stadiums.
“Schools are interested in playing us because they want a viable opponent,” Gragg said. “They want somebody their fans see as competitive. They know we’ve been competitive historically — nine bowl games in the last 12 years — so playing a school like ours helps their schedule.”
Days before playing powerhouse Ohio State in a 2:30 p.m. Saturday matchup televised nationally on ABC, Gragg received interest from another Big Ten school. TU recently signed off on a 2022 meeting with Ole Miss, a successful program in the SEC."
Anyone want to take a guess at the mystery Big 10 school? Nebraska?
I strongly disagree. I did a corporate suite for drillers/roughnecks ($40k) and went to maybe 2 TU games last year. I haven't been to one yet this year and will probably only attend the Cincinnati game.
The atmosphere at Grand where I have DirecTV on my boat is a lot more fun than the atmosphere on campus or inside Skelly. I can entertain clients in my corporate suite or on my boat. I know of no such options at our games.
When alumni can't be sold on perceived value, how in the world can we get others in the community to support?
Oh, and my commitment to Drillers/Roughnecks is 7 years. I'll happily pay it every year because it more than pays for itself.
I agree! Last game I was flying Beyoncé in on my Lear for the game and of course I sent my manserveant ahead to get tickets, and BeyBey and I are on the way to the game in my platinum plated Rolls and the manserveant calls and says no tickets, he didn't have anything smaller than $1000 bills and the ticket booth wouldn't take it! I don't put up with that nonsense so on the spot I bought a $12 million mansion near campus with the cash in my wallet and BeyBey and I watched the game there on my 6000 inch flatscreen. If you can't convince an everyday alum like me that it's worth going to a game, who can you get?
I've had you on ignore more than once but I enjoyed this post. I particularly liked the use of the word manservant.
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