Attendance Concerns?

[TUBballJunkie]

At OU and OSU fraternity houses aren't right outside the stadium. We don't have the same logistical constraints.

Not sure how you're knocking what you've never experienced from some pictures you saw.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I was in a fraternity and love tying one on, but I have kids, having a bunch of wasted bros around is not a selling point (that craft beer under a tent thing sounds good tho). So someone has to decide what the target market is, or how to satisfy multiple target groups. not sure TU has that kind of wherewithal tho.

 

[astonmartin708]

At OU and OSU fraternity houses aren't right outside the stadium. We don't have the same logistical constraints.

Not sure how you're knocking what you've never experienced from some pictures you saw.

Because I experienced other colleges' gameday atmospheres and by comparison it looks lame over there. No offense.

Also, there was quite a bit of drinking at the fraternities, but it wasn't ever what I'd call a **itshow in the hours before the game. To be fair, after the game, guys did get pretty drunk, but that's usually because they invariably left at half never to return. Hopefully that's a problem no-reentry will help solve. To clarify, I've never seen a college age fraternity guy any more drunk on gameday (prior to the 4th quarter) than I have some of the 45-60 year old TU alumnis.

It's not like the fraternities can't buy tent spots over there if they wanted to anyways. I just know my chapter looked at it a couple of times and said, it's not worth it for the house to spend the money when we could spend it on more important things. It would certainly be a nice gesture by the University though, considering it would cost them literally NOTHING to do. If there were complaints, I would absolutely understand a person (or group) on the commons being asked not to return for subsequent events.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

I was in a fraternity and love tying one on, but I have kids, having a bunch of wasted bros around is not a selling point (that craft beer under a tent thing sounds good tho). So someone has to decide what the target market is, or how to satisfy multiple target groups. not sure TU has that kind of wherewithal tho.

You'd fit right in. I think our spot has repped alums of 3 fraternities and 4 sororities over the seasons. And we tolerate the GDIs too.

And yeah, pretty sure we won't be visiting the literally separate tailgate area for students at UH. It's a different target market for many reasons, one of which is probably liability.

http://www.uhcougars.com/TDECU_Stadium/ShastaSquare.html

FWIW the TU student association tailgate IS on the commons. But that's not really where mostly underage students wanting to tie it on are going to be able to set up shop.

 

[astonmartin708]

You'd fit right in. I think our spot has repped alums of 3 fraternities and 4 sororities over the seasons. And we tolerate the GDIs too.

And yeah, pretty sure we won't be visiting the literally separate tailgate area for students at UH. It's a different target market for many reasons, one of which is probably liability.

http://www.uhcougars.com/TDECU_Stadium/ShastaSquare.html

FWIW the TU student association tailgate IS on the commons. But that's not really where mostly underage students wanting to tie it on are going to be able to set up shop.

I'm out of state now, so it doesn't matter to me besides homecoming, when I'll probably be going back to the house anyways... because there's no other place I'd want to be. Unless the houses had places near everyone else. Catch my drift?

 

[TUBballJunkie]

But you'll be at the game. This is a thread about increasing attendance, namely for casual fans.

Giving more free stuff to students who have by and large had to be bribed with giveaways to even show up at games is not that.

People complaining about parking and not coming to games aren't also complaining about the lack of fraternity parties on the Commons. They are not that market.

 

[TU Hurricane Warning]

I've asked tons of people about football and they seriously think the lack of consistent commitment and the fact that there is not a commitment from the fans makes it hard to commit themselves to the situation. Sorry just the cold hard truth. You don't care or agree with what I've said I guess that's fine go on with this matriculation of going in constant circles.

Gamble and retain a great coaching staff and build a hell of a program. Don't then yank athlete friendly degree programs and kill the momentum. Things like that. Also, I always hear, well they're just a stepping stone. Also another one right behind that, what if they just drop down a division so they don't have to compete with OU and OSU.

As I stated before, the beer and upgrades in concessions helps, keep that going and build off that. Make it a niche, the place to go and be seen. IMO

 

[astonmartin708]

But you'll be at the game. This is a thread about increasing attendance, namely for casual fans.

Giving more free stuff to students who have by and large had to be bribed with giveaways to even show up at games is not that.

People complaining about parking and not coming to games aren't also complaining about the lack of fraternity parties on the Commons. They are not that market.

I see what you're saying, but if you're wanting to create a tailgate atmosphere that interests the general public you need people. Right now, the TU tailgate is kind of like someone throwing a huge party with decorations and food and 3 people showing up.

My argument about the fraternities is more in order to have more people on the green instead of 15 (or so) tents of 8 people each.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

You admittedly don't have any idea.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I don't know why people need an excuse not to go to games, it's not jury duty or work. My personal experience as a casual fan in a place where I didn't go to college is that parking and other factors that make it more time consuming or difficult are factors that I consider in going to a game. Both distance to park and difficulty, especially if it's an area of town that I don't know and so don't know where is safe. But I'll accept that I'm an odd duck and other people don't feel that way if that's what people think.

Certainly long term commitment to winning is helpful but you can't have long term commitment soon, pretty much by definition. So the question is what to do in the meantime.

We seem to be assuming that tailgate atmosphere is important for casual fans. I don't know if that's true or not. I wouldn't tailgate at a place I didn't know but maybe that's important to other people. Someone should know this (the marketing department).

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Fair point. At Rice I just want to be able to walk around campus with a sixer and maybe some Torchy's and not get arrested. Not likely stopping anywhere. And other than the TU game @ Houston where we will have a set alumni event, we're looking at Thursday night games there so couldn't care less about pregame. And I imagine if we had kids we'd really be disinterested in any of that and would be happy with just getting to the games on time.

 

[texcane1982]

Garage may not be the answer... But a bunch of dry VIP/donor parking just steps away from the suites would generate more revenue. Most big donors are on the west side.. Opportunity to pull in more GHC money...

Could still have a plaza/retail on ground floor... Big open lots do very little in the offseason and add to the general rundown look of the neighborhood.

IMO having such parking lots on the east side of Harvard, not on the actual campus makes more sense. However, like most things on campus, the lots could land scapped with trees and matching Tennessee Stone architecture.

TX

 

[TU_BLA]

If you asked 20 people that have never been to a TU game or on Campus for that matter, to go and park for a football game, where would they end up? I'm asking a legit question. I've brought numerous first timers with me to games. The ones that meet me there have no idea where to go.

You guys are down playing this because we've spent years in this area and we know the routine. It's not that simple. Cars are ticketed/towed at every game for being somewhere they aren't supposed to be.

There are more places you can't park than places you can. It might surprise some of our alumni, but not everyone in Tulsa hangs out around 11th and Harvard.

The solution could be as easy as working with the church and school on Delaware to post that area on the TU athletics website and campus maps as official game day parking.

I'm not saying this will fix our attendance issues, because we've filled that stadium up before, and will again. But to downplay the parking situation as an excuse is wrong in my opinion.

Jester, I always tell people to go into one of the original USA apartment complexes (North, South, West) and park in an empty spot there and walk the few minutes to the stadium. There always seems to be plenty of parking. Also, from 5th place to 3rd Street the side streets that run north-south (College, Evanston, Florence all seem to be used for game parking. I have never seen TU ticket in any of the apartment lots or the street. If people are getting ticketed/towed from the neighborhoods south of 11th/east of Harvard it's because someone in the neighborhood has filed a complaint. Last year, I parked in the lot adjacent to Case Tennis facility almost every game and that was arriving no more than an hour before kick. TU's security resources are tied up during games and they don't send someone around to lots looking for permits. The ones they block off (Mayo Village, behind Twin Towers, LaFortune) are lots they use for HDCP parking or don't want to allow people down 7th Street.

Seriously, USA North always has available space in it (corner of 3rd & Delaware). If you walk slow it's max 10 minutes to Chapman Commons. You're 3 minutes from a shuttle stop at 5th Pl behind BAH/Phillips halls.

 

[TU_BLA]

IMO having such paring lots on the east side of Harvard, not on the actual campus males more sense. However, like most things on campus, the lots could landscapped with trees and matching Tennessee Stone architecture.

TX

Everyone thinks that is an easy fix but there is an agreement between the city and TU that those green spaces are not to be used for that purpose. It's part of the agreement that gave TU development rights within and surrounding the campus many years ago.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

If people are getting ticketed/towed from the neighborhoods south of 11th/east of Harvard it's because they parked illegally.

FIFY.

There's tons of parking on the streets parallel to 11th to the south with very few "no parking this side" signs.

 

[Novocaine]

Did everyone receive the thanks for attending email - with the survey? I assume season ticket holders and those who bought tickets via the website received it. A good place to let your parking concerns be known.

 

[Raisin_Cane]

Message boards are awesome. I love to argue and debate as much as the next person. But if we want things changed, or our voices listened to, we have to contact the proper people! That doesn't mean trying to reach Dr. Gragg or President Upham. It means emailing marketing, operations, concessions, etc. Go to the source. The higher up you go, the less likely you are to get a response, because believe it or not, they're pretty busy people! Let's get some real change on campus by opening a dialogue!

 

[TulsaGrad07]

You have any idea how long it took TU just to bring beer back? Talking about parking garages and remediation at this point is tantamount to building a death star in outer space.

 

[astonmartin708]

Jester, I always tell people to go into one of the original USA apartment complexes (North, South, West) and park in an empty spot there and walk the few minutes to the stadium. There always seems to be plenty of parking. Also, from 5th place to 3rd Street the side streets that run north-south (College, Evanston, Florence all seem to be used for game parking. I have never seen TU ticket in any of the apartment lots or the street. If people are getting ticketed/towed from the neighborhoods south of 11th/east of Harvard it's because someone in the neighborhood has filed a complaint. Last year, I parked in the lot adjacent to Case Tennis facility almost every game and that was arriving no more than an hour before kick. TU's security resources are tied up during games and they don't send someone around to lots looking for permits. The ones they block off (Mayo Village, behind Twin Towers, LaFortune) are lots they use for HDCP parking or don't want to allow people down 7th Street.

Seriously, USA North always has available space in it (corner of 3rd & Delaware). If you walk slow it's max 10 minutes to Chapman Commons. You're 3 minutes from a shuttle stop at 5th Pl behind BAH/Phillips halls.

Technically, you're not supposed to park there. Those are private everyday, including gameday. There are signs that say not to. We're not talking about fixing the problem for alumni who know where campo will be.

 

[TulsaAM]

I have thought about this for a long time and I've observed the following:

1) Competition from the internet, cable/satellite TV, cheap airline travel, etc. There is just more accessible things to do now.
2) Tulsa isn't growing as a city. Let's face it, people leave Tulsa, they don't move there anymore.
3) TU students move away for jobs. How many of us on this board are in other cities/states?
4) Low enrollment equates to a low donor and fan pool to draw from. The Administration has never been willing to do what it takes to get enrollment above 10,000. There were 7,500 when I got there in 1987 and there is under 5,000 now. "Elite" schools usually do not have an acceptance rate above 20%, TU is at 41%. I would like to think this is the University doing an efficient job of targeting potential students. Whatever the reason, it means there are only about 2,100 applicants a year which is 1/3 the number of applications to Rice (which has an undergrad enrollment just 500 more than Tulsa). The "Tulsa" brand just isn't that big.

Wait a second! Rice sucks at everything (except baseball)...

Yes they do! And so do many other schools that are on par with Tulsa (SMU, Wake Forest, Boston University, Tulane, Fordham, Marquette, etc.). Which means (in my opinion) that Tulsa has enjoyed a higher level of sports success than it should have in Football. The fact there are 17,000 people at a game on a holiday weekend where both OU and OSU are playing home games within driving distance is amazing to me. Many of the schools I mention above don't even have football teams. The ones that do we can probably beat.

So really, we aren't doing so bad.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

TU committed to athletics at a higher level than Rice at least two decades ago under Dr Bob and Judy. I can't even name their football and basketball head coaches much less how many times more our coaching salaries must be. And how much we've invested in facilities across the board in the last 20 years compared to that campus.

SMU has demonstrated that same $ commitment but still doesn't have the football success to show for it. We have. Where they have had success in bball, the city of Dallas has been out of their mind clamoring to attend games.

Tulane hasn't kept up but has benefited from their academics and market.

 

[TulsaGrad07]

We DO have a strong gameday environment. I brought my gf up to watch the opener last year against FAU and she said she'd never had so much fun at a football game. Rowdy Frederick and another commit were sitting in front of us at the game, and we got to talk to them and hear about why they chose TU instead of Oklahoma or Arkansas. She's not easily impressed and I didn't talk up the experience or venue prior to getting there; just that I was really proud to have graduated from TU. I grew up in Tulsa and can tell you about 90% of the populace has never entertained even attending at TU football game. They watch their football on TV and wear OU gear even though they dropped out of TCC. Those that have been to a TU game enjoy themselves. Marketing strategies to overcome disinterest and unawareness are largely ineffective unless you entice them with free stuff. But even that doesn't seem to work, just look at all the free stuff they used to give out a Driller games (bats, gloves, helmets, balls) and the stadium was never full.

 

[TulsaGrad07]

Another possible variable is ticket pricing. Since we switched from CUSA to the American, our ticket prices increased 10/20 bucks a seat. The best seats in the house used to cost $35 a seat. I think they're 45 now? I know that's dirt cheap compared to most other sporting venues, but maybe to the casual fan at the margin, they'll choose to attend fewer games a season as a result? I'm just speculating, but I did notice it when I was pricing tix for the SJSU game.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

I agree on pricing. I think the endzone should be $5 general admission. A family of 4 got into Drillers that night for about $24 walk-up. Costs $84 to walk-up day of game at TU and sit in the family fun zone for that same family of 4.

"Day of Game Tickets
Tickets that are purchased day of game will be subject to a $5 fee. Patrons are encouraged to purchase their tickets in advance."

Seriously? Up the $15 ticket 33% day of game?

I think we're out of whack on bball pricing too, but that's another story.

 

[noble cane]

We DO have a strong gameday environment. I brought my gf up to watch the opener last year against FAU and she said she'd never had so much fun at a football game. Rowdy Frederick and another commit were sitting in front of us at the game, and we got to talk to them and hear about why they chose TU instead of Oklahoma or Arkansas. She's not easily impressed and I didn't talk up the experience or venue prior to getting there; just that I was really proud to have graduated from TU. I grew up in Tulsa and can tell you about 90% of the populace has never entertained even attending at TU football game. They watch their football on TV and wear OU gear even though they dropped out of TCC. Those that have been to a TU game enjoy themselves. Marketing strategies to overcome disinterest and unawareness are largely ineffective unless you entice them with free stuff. But even that doesn't seem to work, just look at all the free stuff they used to give out a Driller games (bats, gloves, helmets, balls) and the stadium was never full.

Our game day is fun. But our overall image needs improving. Barely being able to get a Tulsa hat anywhere other than the campus store is a pretty big indicator. I can find Miami Hurricanes swag easier in Tulsa than I can find TU stuff.

 

[noble cane]

Another possible variable is ticket pricing. Since we switched from CUSA to the American, our ticket prices increased 10/20 bucks a seat. The best seats in the house used to cost $35 a seat. I think they're 45 now? I know that's dirt cheap compared to most other sporting venues, but maybe to the casual fan at the margin, they'll choose to attend fewer games a season as a result? I'm just speculating, but I did notice it when I was pricing tix for the SJSU game.

Charging $45 for NC A&T is obscene.

 

[TU_BLA]

I agree on pricing. I think the endzone should be $5 general admission. A family of 4 got into Drillers that night for about $24 walk-up. Costs $84 to walk-up day of game at TU and sit in the family fun zone for that same family of 4.

"Day of Game Tickets
Tickets that are purchased day of game will be subject to a $5 fee. Patrons are encouraged to purchase their tickets in advance."

Seriously? Up the $15 ticket 33% day of game?

I think we're out of whack on bball pricing too, but that's another story.

Family Fun Zone= $195 for the season. 6 games, 24 tickets = little over $8/ticket. Even if you miss a game, you're out $30. Give them to someone you know.

There are cheap ways to go to TU games...know an employee? Ask them...they get 1/2 tickets. If you don't know an employee, I bet you know someone who does know one.

 

[TU_BLA]

Our game day is fun. But our overall image needs improving. Barely being able to get a Tulsa hat anywhere other than the campus store is a pretty big indicator. I can find Miami Hurricanes swag easier in Tulsa than I can find TU stuff.

This is true...and if you do find one outside, say at Wal Mart, it's cheap Chinese crap OR if you find one at Bedlam Sports or another outlet, you have to take out a 2nd mortgage so they can keep up with the licensing fees TU charges.

BTW, the bookstore has some really nice Adidas stuff now. There's a couple good hats (much better than anything in years IMO), some nice polos and cool weather pull overs.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Casual fans aren't buying season tickets, that doesn't help at all. Especially if they don't come to one off games to figure out they actually like going and might consider season tix one day.

Casual fans aren't stalking TU employees either. That also doesn't help.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

Lower end zone should be no more than $10 per ticket and upper end zone should be no more than $5 per ticket. And for games against teams like we have coming in on Saturday, all tickets should be discounted in some way. We'll have around 14-16k there on Saturday unfortunately

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Our ticket office just tacked on an extra $7.60 in fees for the 2 tickets I ordered for the game at UH. On top of what I'd have paid had I ordered on ticketmaster via UH.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

The fact there are 17,000 people at a game on a holiday weekend where both OU and OSU are playing home games within driving distance is amazing to me.

The problem is that there were nowhere near 17,000 in attendance on the holiday weekend. The same will be true when we play the FCS team this Saturday.

 

[TulsaGrad07]

Sounds like there's some agreement that our scheduling of opponents is proving to hurt us in attendance, at least before conference play begins. Prices could be more elastic for no-name FCS opponents, but I doubt anyone other than a die-hard TU fan would even take a free ticket to watch us play our next opponent. Can someone on here help me understand the payout structure for scheduling pre-conference home games? We were offered 1 mil to play Ohio State last week. Do we have to fork out huge bucks if we want to schedule a big 12 team like Iowa State a few years back? Mountain west is better than a CUSA opponent, but is the reason why we never play exciting out-of-conference teams at home due to our inability to pay marquis teams to play us here?

 

[TUBballJunkie]

We get too lopsided for room for decent home and homes with payday games and OU/OSU. Where we start having slots open in non-conference in 2020, we've got 5 away games already booked to our 2 home games. (See link) So the issue becomes needing stand-alone home games without a return that is $ and no one better than NCA&T is going to take a money game here. P5 aren't going to do that, and we couldn't afford them anyway. It's a cycle no amount of our complaining can break right now.

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/aac/tulsa-golden-hurricane.php

And I think we don't see past the immediate cash upfront of payday games (or ticket pricing and fees for that matter) to actually invest in growth and consider the value of building.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

We've recently added a game at Ole Miss in 2022.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

We've recently added a game at Ole Miss in 2022.

So a 6 to 2 disparity then. The future schedules site doesn't have that listed yet.

4 more NCA&Ts! :-/

 

[Tuloma]

Sounds like there's some agreement that our scheduling of opponents is proving to hurt us in attendance, at least before conference play begins. Prices could be more elastic for no-name FCS opponents, but I doubt anyone other than a die-hard TU fan would even take a free ticket to watch us play our next opponent. Can someone on here help me understand the payout structure for scheduling pre-conference home games? We were offered 1 mil to play Ohio State last week. Do we have to fork out huge bucks if we want to schedule a big 12 team like Iowa State a few years back? Mountain west is better than a CUSA opponent, but is the reason why we never play exciting out-of-conference teams at home due to our inability to pay marquis teams to play us here?

Please allow me to provide some information on scheduling revenues. The normal procedure for home and home games with P5 schools is the home team pays the visiting team travel expense money. That has usually been $300,000, however I have recently seen some for $400,000. The home team keeps all of the gate receipts. The same thing normally applies when scheduling 2 for 1 games.

So most likely if TU scheduled another home and home with Iowa State they would receive $400,000 when playing there and pay Iowa State $400,000 when playing here, but keep all of the the gate receipts. The problem is, TU has a small stadium and ticket prices are low

If TU sells out the stadium (which may not happen) at say an average of $30 per ticket, that totals $750,000. After paying Iowa State $400,000 that leaves TU with only $350,000. If the game is not sold out the income is less. Contrast that with receiving $1,000,000 when playing at Ohio State.

That is why Athletic Directors at smaller schools go for the payday games.

When TU down sized the stadium from 35,000 to 25,000 they greatly hindered their benefit of scheduling home and home games with P5 schools. Those 10,000 seats were higher dollar sideline seats.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Let's take that further. The home and home is basically a wash. In your example we have an excess of $600k for the Ohio State trip.

But say instead of having to schedule chump teams, we get solid home and home opponents. When they come here, we sell 25k tickets at your $30 average instead of 17k. That's half a million in two games along with whatever additional concession income you've got for 16000 more bodies over two games. And continue to build a casual fanbase that will come back.

It's an absurdly simple-minded business plan that inhibits growth.

 

[TUBballJunkie]

Rice has some money road games but look how nice this home non-conference looks over the next few years. Home and homes with Stanford, LSU (2020 and 2024 is the new contract), Wake, Northwestern, Boise.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa/rice-owls.php

Tulane has lopsided 2016-17 opponents but then they've got Georgia Tech, Ole Miss, Miss State, OU coming in.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/aac/tulane-green-wave.php

There can be a happy medium.

 

[Tuloma]

You make good points. I assume by solid opponents you are talking about MWC, etc. type teams and not P5. The question is would those games sell out the stadium. The AD knows what he will get when he plays at OSU. There is a risk in what you suggest that the AD might not want to take..