FAKE NEWS and needless grandstanding.
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ities-are-sharing-misleading-post-about-trum/
2 Tulsa Players With Coronavirus
- Thread starter TulsaFanFromStigler
- Start date
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ities-are-sharing-misleading-post-about-trum/
Walmart is selling lots of tops, and way less bottoms right now.(Not fake news.)
It's unclear if a lot of officials in his present administration were fired. Misdirection doesn't make it any less true. Letting them go, and not replacing them is the same as firing, if you want to look at brass tacks.
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5099 and just starting to pick up speed. We'll blast through my estimate tomorrow. A good reminder why we don't leave policy to random know nothings like HK and me. Unfortunately the know nothing in chief, who has access to the best and brightest and best data and models in the world just realized the seriousness of the situation a few days ago, at the same time as the general public. You'd hope the powers who be would be smarter than the general public but unfortunately not. Thank God for Newsom, Cuomo, the guy in Ohio etc. Florida governor basically says he'd have shut things down earlier but trump made it seem like not a big deal. Don't see that kind of honesty very often these days. Preemptive ass covering.
Cuomo? The Gov of the state with almost half the deaths in the entire country? The Gov who refuses to lock down travel in and out of NYC and the state? The Gov who had 1.8M people riding the NYC subway nine days ago? The Gov of Washington took decisive action. Cuomo sat back and watched until it was too late for NYC. That guy?
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Hes done a great job of marshalling resources for the state. Increasing treatment capacity is a critical part of the states' response, its at least half the battle and was viewed by many as adequate back when NY could have taken action to stop spread (back when trump was saying it was under control and almost gone from the US, making decisive action a lot harder).
He has definitely deferred to much to local leaders on sheltering. He'll be judged badly for that failure.
Why would he limit travel into and out of New York? Restricting travel to help other states isn't his job, he works for new yorkers who would definitely be hurt by that. I suspect the rest of the country will catch up to some extent to NY. They were among the first states hit and didnt have the benefit of watching others like, say, Texas or Missouri did so had a higher degree of difficulty than other states. Of course NY looks bad compared to California but given the active federal efforts to downplay the virus at the point that NY could have taken decisive action, its hard to blame them too much. The other god other than Newom is DeWine. As a Republican he bucked trump and acted aggressively. Ohio is going to be hard hit but it would have been a lot worse.
Ugh....he would limit travel in and out of New York because it would save lives across the country by preventing the spread from the highest infected part of the country. His actions not to do such because he thinks only of this own state has to be one of the most callous decisions ever made by an elected official. One which has cost lives...but yeah, it might somehow be best for his state. Remember, Cuomo not only has refused to limit travel out of the state he stated any attempt by the Fed’s to do the same would be an act of war. Scumbag.
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Other governors are perfectly capable of taking action, as others have since done. Every state has a governor tasked with protecting its citizens. Their failure is not Cuomo's fault. If the feds had strongly recommended that action, I'm sure many states would have acted. It's bizarre to blame Cuomo for something that's clearly not his job - and where the damage can be directly tied to the inaction of others who job it actually is. Blame the people who actually did fail at their jobs rather than scapegoating a guy who has his hands full with his own problems.
The reality is that other governors did not do anything because they failed to recognize the issue's real magnitude, or they were focusing on their own internal preparations to make travel bans unnecessary. The fact that other governors were ignoring the problem and needed Cuomo to sacrifice New Yorkers to save them is part of the reason why I think he's done a good job (at least compared to what other governors would have done). I don't think there's anything at all wrong with his decisions on that point.
He can't be responsible for everyone. Though having a guy who's responsible for the whole country, not just one state, who could take charge and coordinate across states would be a great idea. Oh wait...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-bodies.html#
In normal times, the medical examiner’s office has room for up to 900 bodies at its five facilities across the city, according to a spokeswoman, Aja Worthy-Davis.
Ms. Worthy-Davis said the office has purchased the 45 mobile morgues to boost its capacity to handle about 3,500 bodies. Another 85 of the refrigerated units are expected to be delivered soon by the Federal Emergency Management Agency
In normal times, the medical examiner’s office has room for up to 900 bodies at its five facilities across the city, according to a spokeswoman, Aja Worthy-Davis.
Ms. Worthy-Davis said the office has purchased the 45 mobile morgues to boost its capacity to handle about 3,500 bodies. Another 85 of the refrigerated units are expected to be delivered soon by the Federal Emergency Management Agency
We're going to disagree on this one. Cuomo may be the Governor of NY but he also a citizen of the United States. Declaring that any act to close the borders of what is by far the most heavily infected area of the country would be an "Act of War" is simply irresponsible. As the Governor of NY he might be doing what is best for his infected citizens. As a citizen of the United States he has put many lives at risk by refusing to isolate the infected.
To be clear, the other Governors need Cuomo to isolate his people not because he's done a good job but because his state is by far the most infected area of the country. Not sure how anyone can consider those results a good job by any metrics. We're banning international travel from highly infected areas but not travel within the country from like situations. Makes zero sense.
The federal govt could also mandate a price by declaring a national health emergency.
We've declared one. My assumption is the Feds believe that artificially reducing the price of certain goods will suppress the manufacturing of said supplies. Why convert a car factory of mattress factory into medical supplies if the conversion costs are less than what I can sell the product.
Now....controls on price gauging are another matter and should be instituted.
If Georgia or Florida or Wisconsin don't think it's a problem to have New Yorkers come, then why is it Cuomo's business to tell them otherwise? Florida's De Santis was welcoming travelers from NY and everywhere. Isn't it his place to decide that for his state? Who is Cuomo to stop that? De Santis can require quarantine or travel restrictions for visitors, as he has since done. Cuomo is supposed to tell Florida it can't have the NY visitors that it wants? Really? Florida is not a small child or invalid, incapable of making its own decisions. If Florida had an effective system to handle the virus, then it would be able to manage having people come into the state. Shame on Florida.
Besides, how is Cuomo supposed to enforce such a ban? He can't cancel flights. Is he supposed to put cops at every road out of the state? I'm pretty sure his personnel are otherwise occupied. The states where people go - and who have fewer cases - are much better able to handle restrictions. It's crazy to say Cuomo should take literally thousands of law enforcement personnel to block leaving the state. Those people are badly needed in the state. You're suggesting that NY throw itself off a cliff because other states' governors are too incompetent to manage cases coming in. It makes no sense at all. You seem to dislike Cuomo and are searching for justifications for that dislike rather than judging his actions.
I suspect the number of cases caused by New Yorkers traveling outside their usual patterns (to homes in NY, NJ etc) is a very small percent of cases. This really seems like scapegoating to cover up for the unfortunate reality that the virus is everywhere. It would have a trivial impact ag a huge cost of effort.
You'll be pleased to see that NY accounts for just over 20% of today's deaths. I suspect that your attack on Cuomo, like HK's and my predictions of deaths, will in retrospect age very poorly.
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I believe any location which has a high density of infected like New York City should be forced to quarantine. New York City would have been fairly easy to quarantine. I'm not picking and choosing policy here based on whose in charge or location. I fail to see how a location who is already in shelter in place is throwing itself off a cliff by preventing people from leaving that location to infect others. I know of no good way for states to ascertain with any certainty where people traveling across their border have been in the last 14 days. Just unrealistic to propose such a policy.
I don't dislike Cuomo. I actually like his pressers and find them informative. I took exception when you pointed him out of one of three examples of governors doing a great job. He was slow to act along with the Mayor and health officials in an area which was a likely hot spot. He then failed to take actions to quarantine those highly infected areas from the rest of the state and country. He also allowed almost 2 million people on the subway system in a single day knowing the extent of the outbreak,
I know they starting using the drug cocktail we talked about in the Nevada Gov discussion on a mass scale there several days ago. I'm hoping that's responsible for the drop in deaths today. I'll be looking at the numbers coming out of there the rest of the week and hoping to see a continuance. We're all in this together and should be acting based on what's best for the country. Fingers are crossed the numbers today represent results from the new treatments.
I just don't believe your rationale on this one issue, is anything but a justification. It seems to go against the grain of your other stated views about the virus. No offense intended, just stating it like I see it.
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I think everyone has a role and a responsibility, and I am a strong believer in the need for an effective federal government. Blaming someone who's not at fault to let the people who actually are responsible off the hook is a problem from my perspective. We have states (and presidents) that have actively ignored or flouted the advice of experts, and we're now saying it's not their fault, it's NY's fault. Holding people responsible for their failure to listen to the wisdom of experts is, I think, very much consistent with my previous statements. That includes Cuomo - he will be judged badly for relying too much on local leaders for movement restrictions but has done a fantastic job of marshaling resources, which is a critical part of the response. We'll see ultimately how he did compared to other governors, almost all of whom had the advantage of not having to be a leader (applause for Newsom). Only time will tell but I suspect he'll come out looking good.
I also think, as a practical matter, that shutting outflow from NY is impossible and entirely unenforceable, and would require a massive effort for fairly little gain. NY simply does not have the resources to do it. Other states can do it better if they want. As I've annoyingly stated a million times, I'm a firm believer in doing smart things, not dumb things that sound good until you think about them a little.
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To quote lawpost, see above post. And your point about not being easily enforced, goes the same for gatherings and social distancing. That is not any easier to enforce than traffic in and out of New York, but we are still doing it. You can't widely enforce it, but you can place harsh penalties on those you catch. Then you have to hope the possibility of being one of the few caught is enough of a deterrent.
I’m fairly familiar w NYC. Which has been by far the highest density of infections for the past several weeks. NYC based on geography should be one of the easiest places in the country to restrict travel to and from. Makes no sense to me to argue for a quarantine then allow people in and out of highly infected areas. My position will apply to any highly infected area btw
Well I guess it worked for china, they quarantined Wuhan and haven't had any deaths for weeks! If you're going to do NY you better do NJ, MI and LA also. Probably need to get ready for FL, GA and IN also. Lot of work to do.
Freedom of speech and all, right or wrong, I wish Chris would put a lifetime ban on guys like him. He just clutters up the board with crap, and is offensive to almost everybody. I realize I egg him on, but he wouldn't go away, even if I didn't egg him on. He'd just post 38 posts instead of 43.
On an interesting point blessedly unrelated to covid, most research shows that increasing severity of punishment has a small impact on criminal behavior. Increasing likelihood of being prosecuted on the other hand has a much bigger effect. People aren't rational decisionmakers when evaluating the impact of conduct and tend to significantly devalue low frequency events.
You are walking around, or missing the point. Those things would apply equally to social distancing/large gatherings and travel in and out of New York. Neither can be widely policed/prosecuted. So the point is mute, as far as what can be done with the resources. But they both should be practiced as closely as is possible, even without the resources to enforce them vigorously.
Actually I wasnt making any point at all. Nothing is preventing the president or other leaders from making this point if its an unenforceable matter of asking people to do what's right. It's a low value activity which is why nobody has done it. It's the kind of thing the talking heads on the idiot box like but people dealing with the issues dont seem to care about.
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Did a pickup at chipolte to celebrate national burrito day. Some workers were eating at the tables. Funny the things that remind you how much you miss normal life.
While a snappy comeback, still avoiding the point being mentioned, only graphicly. False red herring.
Actually it was a joke. I got tired of this discussion several posts ago. Look back, you'll see. If anyone who knows anything, or even leaders who don't know anything, thought this would help they would have done it. This is just know nothings fartin' in the wind as my mom used to say.
I didn't say it was a serious snappy comeback. In fact I was joking when I even labeled it a 'snappy' comeback.
I was almost already there before I even posted 'To quote lawpoke...'(fartin in the wind)
Oh man, I can't let this comment pass. Anyone who believes one stinkin word from any official in the Chinese Communist gov't is either: totally ignorant of the nature of totalitarians; totally naive; a damn fool or a Bernie-style supporter of this form of government. For example, a Chinese gov't official has been quoted as blaming US Army personnel who visited Wuhan months before the outbreak as being responsible for it. Whew!! A couple of gov't controlled bio-hazard labs in Wuhan within a few klicks of that "wet market" where the virus is said to have started might make a guy start to wonder about it's origin.
Now, Trump is now playing nice with China, the country who brought the world this disaster, and Xi. I believe I understand why. After placing the blame squarely where it belongs for weeks,he and the US will need China to not renege on the massive trade deals(as they have often done in the past) in order to avoid a deep recession if not a depression in this country when the Chinese virus subsides.
Forgive me Chito, you too, Leon. There may very well be other perfectly legit reasons why you would make such a claim. Perhaps that claim came from the World Health Organization. Unfortunately, this pathetic arm of the UN is in the pocket of China as well. I, for one, do not believe one word from these SOB's.
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It was a joke. I think quarantines would work as well for us as they worked for China. I think that's "not well at all, basically useless" but I'll leave it to each to decide on their own... It's been conclusively shown to have developed naturally from bats, like many viruses before, but that's not as fun of a story as the Jason Bourne stuff. Trump is much closer to Xi on political philosophy than Bernie is because T & X share the desire to have all power over government and economy centered in the premier and a small group of loyalists. Bernie is a social democrat but is much more of a lower case d democrat, which Trump is not. I wouldn't believe Trump or his political team any more than Xi or the Chinese which is why it's good for now that we have experts involved as well as governors who can keep some accountability on truth. The WHO has no power and tries to get influence by sucking up. Their efforts in the past to strongarm did not work so they're trying this instead. Their lack of real power definitely leaves them hamstrung. I still want them to find out that medical marijuana stops coronavirus. That sounds way more fun than the malaria drug, which seems like kind of a drag.
It's funny, we hear that we can't have too strong of an economic safety net because people are lazy and will just stay home instead of working. Then we roast them for going to work. I wonder how many of those people would go to work if they didn't feel they had absolutely no choice? Do we hate the motivated who will literally risk death for themselves and others to keep their jobs or do we hate the ones who stay home because they're lazy? It gets hard to keep track of who I should hate on. I guess maybe to be safe we should just hate on anyone who can't afford to be without work for several months? I wonder how many of them have been tested? Since testing is still strictly rationed my guess is none. That's a huge missed opportunity.
Then there's the people who go out just for fun - the huge church services, spring breakers, people having house parties. I saw a group of about 40 hanging out in a parking lot last night.
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Wasn't my intent to hate on anyone but rather show what NYC is up against. Not sure why you would choose that angle.
If there were blamed to be assigned in NYC I think it would go to DeBlasio rather than Cuomo. Quite possibly America's worst mayor. I've been impressed with how Cuomo has handled this overall.
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