2 Tulsa Players With Coronavirus

[chito_and_leon]

Which is exactly my point. Closing schools was an appropriate response.

You can look at it as denial. I choose to look at it differently. To me, the real denial is denying that 20,000-60,000 people die annually from influenza. No matter what president is in office.

But I get it. The orange man is bad, everything is his fault. When the swine flu hit, it was almost a year after the WHO declared it a pandemic that the greatest president ever finally declared an emergency in this country. 13,000 people died. But 400>>13,000.

I still don't get why the flu deaths matter. Why does a lot of people dying from one thing make a lot of people dying from another thing ok? Its such a bizarre argument. We need to do better on flu not worse on coronavirus.

Responding like korea would have been nice but we missed that chance. We took the Italy approach at the beginning. It doesn't matter who you like or don't like it's just fact. We misssed that boat.

I assume the response has been different because people who know about such things think the death numbers for coronavirus left unchecked would be much worse than flu or swine flu.

Your death numbers are wrong - you need to look at deaths in the do nothing scenario. The reason the death numbers are low is because state snd local leaders acted aggressively. Youre saying, don't act aggressively because it keeps people from dying. Huh?

 

[lawpoke87]

South Korea had a sufficient number of tests on hand to adequately handle the identification of the virus in their population. They learned their lesson after 2009. We don’t have that thanks to the Cheeto Bandito.

I'm assuming South Korea's lesson was from the SARS outbreak and not their Swine Flu experience which only killed 250 in that country.

I would compare our response to that of Western Europe and not Italy who left their borders open to China until they had thousands infected.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Which is exactly my point. Closing schools was an appropriate response.

You can look at it as denial. I choose to look at it differently. To me, the real denial is denying that 20,000-60,000 people die annually from influenza. No matter what president is in office.

But I get it. The orange man is bad, everything is his fault. When the swine flu hit, it was almost a year after the WHO declared it a pandemic that the greatest president ever finally declared an emergency in this country. 13,000 people died. But 400>>13,000.

This is moral relativism at its worst. Life no longer is about doing the right thing, it's about finding an exmple of the other guy doing something similar to make yours ok. Stole $100000? Its ok I can find an example of the other guy doing something similar. Bad response? Its ok the other guy had a bad response. Life today is a giant race to the bottom, eberyrhing is ok as long as soneone else ever has done something as bad. Smh. We used to belueve in things like right and wrong. Now everything is ok as long as some other scoundrel did it first.

 

[astonmartin708]

I'm assuming South Korea's lesson was from the SARS outbreak and not their Swine Flu experience which only killed 250 in that country.

I would compare our response to that of Western Europe and not Italy who left their borders open to China until they had thousands infected.

I think Italy's problem is they have the oldest population in Europe, all packed into a couple densely populated areas, and a central government that's dysfunctional.

Also, the fact that they have a major tourist economy which they probably didn't want to screw up. (Much like we're having discussions about how much we can hurt our economy without lasting detriment)

 

[lawpoke87]

This is moral relativism at its worst. Life no longer is about doing the right thing, it's about finding an exmple of the other guy doing something similar to make yours ok. Stole $100000? Its ok I can find an example of the other guy doing something similar. Bad response? Its ok the other guy had a bad response. Life today is a giant race to the bottom, eberyrhing is ok as long as soneone else ever has done something as bad. Smh. We used to belueve in things like right and wrong. Now everything is ok as long as some other scoundrel did it first.

Isn't the point that there needs to be a balancing act? What constitutes such a significant risk to our population that we wreck our economy. I don't know the answer to that question but there's obviously a line. It appears this virus crosses that line. We obviously can't keep the country shut down forever...or even an extended period of time. I don't know what that time limit is btw. There's a balance between the deaths and suffering from the virus and the deaths and suffering from a economic breakdown ala Venezuela. Do we institute a plan down the road where we shelter the old and at risk and relax some of the restrictions currently in place? People obviously need to work up and down the supply chain regardless of quarantines. There likely won't be a solution or even a plan which satisfies everyone. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Which is exactly my point. Closing schools was an appropriate response.

You can look at it as denial. I choose to look at it differently. To me, the real denial is denying that 20,000-60,000 people die annually from influenza. No matter what president is in office.

But I get it. The orange man is bad, everything is his fault. When the swine flu hit, it was almost a year after the WHO declared it a pandemic that the greatest president ever finally declared an emergency in this country. 13,000 people died. But 400>>13,000.

We know now that the Obama team ran Trump's team through scenario exercises about responding to a pandemic before Trump took office. They probably passed on learnings from swine flu. It's ok - in fact mandatory - to acknowledge things you could have done better to do better in the future. Obama wasnt perfect, nobody is. That doesnt make it ok to relearn all the same mistakes or deny the new ones you make. Unless you're a moral relativist.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Isn't the point that there needs to be a balancing act? What constitutes such a significant risk to our population that we wreck our economy. I don't know the answer to that question but there's obviously a line. It appears this virus crosses that line. We obviously can't keep the country shut down forever...or even an extended period of time. I don't know what that time limit is btw. There's a balance between the deaths and suffering from the virus and the deaths and suffering from a economic breakdown ala Venezuela. Do we institute a plan down the road where we shelter the old and at risk and relax some of the restrictions currently in place? People obviously need to work up and down the supply chain regardless of quarantines. There likely won't be a solution or even a plan which satisfies everyone. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't.

This is the most cogent balanced thing in this thread (myself included)! You're absolutely right. Hopefully that decision is not based on popular vote or TV ratings. We also need to keep in mind that there will be significant impact on the economy in the do nothing/little scenario too. People will get sick, go to the hospital and die at a higher rate than in the lockdown and those are expensive. Many people will severely limit their economic activity as the virus ramps up in the reduced restriction world and spreads more or less unchecked. Fear will be bad. Restaurants, airlines etc won't return to normal until this is under control. Reducing restrictions increases the risk of major outbreaks that will be as bad economically as the lockdown. There seems to be a dream that the economy will return to normal as soon as restrictiins are lifted and that just won't happen as long as the virus is not under control.

 

[lawpoke87]

This is the most cogent balanced thing in this thread (myself included)! You're absolutely right. Hopefully that decision is not based on popular vote or TV ratings. We also need to keep in mind that there will be significant impact on the economy in the do nothing/little scenario too. People will get sick, go to the hospital and die at a higher rate than in the lockdown and those are expensive. Many people will severely limit their economic activity as the virus ramps up in the reduced restriction world and spreads more or less unchecked. Fear will be bad. Restaurants, airlines etc won't return to normal until this is under control. Reducing restrictions increases the risk of major outbreaks that will be as bad economically as the lockdown. There seems to be a dream that the economy will return to normal as soon as restrictiins are lifted and that just won't happen as long as the virus is not under control.

Cuomo just talked about this in his presser a few minutes ago. Called it risk stratification. Basically, the least at risk people will need to go back to work in order to provide for those most at risk while they continue to shelter. Went on to explain that we as a society can't take care of anyone if we allow our economic system to fail. Also seemed to provide some hope as to the malaria drug which is now being used in NY as a treatment.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Cuomo just talked about this in his presser a few minutes ago. Called it risk stratification. Basically, the least at risk people will need to go back to work in order to provide for those most at risk while they continue to shelter. Went on to explain that we as a society can't take care of anyone if we allow our economic system to fail. Also seemed to provide some hope as to the malaria drug which is now being used in NY as a treatment.

This is one of those times when having really smart, experienced people in charge and advising makes a lot of difference. It aint tv ratings and the stock market isn't the only consideration. We'll need the states to continue to lead.

Were supposed to visit Europe for 2.5 months this summer so I'm rooting for the malaria drug!

 

[lawpoke87]

This is one of those times when having really smart, experienced people in charge and advising makes a lot of difference. It aint tv ratings and the stock market isn't the only consideration. We'll need the states to continue to lead.

Were supposed to visit Europe for 2.5 months this summer so I'm rooting for the malaria drug!

I'm there with you. My daughter is suppose to play in a big international soccer tourney in June. Would hate for her (and us) to miss out on that experience. However, the health and safety of us all must remain the priority.

Cuomo said the states will decide when and to what extent the quarantines will be lifted or ordered for that matter not the feds.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I'm there with you. My daughter is suppose to play in a big international soccer tourney in June. Would hate for her (and us) to miss out on that experience. However, the health and safety of us all must remain the priority.

Cuomo said the states will decide when and to what extent the quarantines will be lifted or ordered for that matter not the feds.

It's kind of ironic that the research that may save Trumps presidency comes from the Chinese and French.

Remember in the reign of Bush II when the Capitol cafeteria changed French fries to freedom fries because the French opposed the invasion of Iraq? Some of us are so goofy.

Were still planning as if we're going. It sounds terrible but we're looking for some discounts for the time in Italy. I think we'll hope to go if we can get in...

 

[Hurricane Drummer]

This is moral relativism at its worst. Life no longer is about doing the right thing, it's about finding an exmple of the other guy doing something similar to make yours ok. Stole $100000? Its ok I can find an example of the other guy doing something similar. Bad response? Its ok the other guy had a bad response. Life today is a giant race to the bottom, eberyrhing is ok as long as soneone else ever has done something as bad. Smh. We used to belueve in things like right and wrong. Now everything is ok as long as some other scoundrel did it first.

I could be wrong, but I don't think moral relativism was what he was going for. I believe he was calling out the hypocrisy of a certain portion of the population.

 

[chito_and_leon]

I could be wrong, but I don't think moral relativism was what he was going for. I believe he was calling out the hypocrisy of a certain portion of the population.

I guess the question is whether he was arguing for less or justifying what has been done as ok based on what happened before, which would be relativism and is ubiquitous among certain groups. That's what I understood. If he's saying, yeah the government is screwing up but we should judge that screw up in context of prior screw ups then that is a reasonable argument. That wasn't what I read but I very well could be wrong.

On an unrelated point, Spain is on pace to be as bad as Italy and doctors in some hospitals in northern Italy have stopped treating patients over 60.

 

[URedskin54]

There seems to be a dream that the economy will return to normal as soon as restrictiins are lifted and that just won't happen as long as the virus is not under control.

The thing that people will soon realize is that even with no virus the economy will not return to normal for a long time. There are tons of businesses shutting down every day and lots of them are never coming back.

Unfortunately there are no good options. It would be nice to have confidence that our leadership in government can weigh them and find the best solution, but I have none. The guy tasked with doing so is a fundamentally unserious person and the people in the medical community, while critical to finding solutions, don't really have to consider many of their effects.

 

[Weatherdemon]

Again, I’m not advocating doing nothing. The closures and cancellations are going to have a positive impact.

I am betting you did not stay home and Quarantine yourself in 2009 when the swine flu was pandemic. And that flu was killing people in your age range, contrary to the coronavirus. Your odds were worse than they are now.

It but, I didn’t spray with Off before going outside with West Nile around and spent 4 days in the hospital and couldn’t pick my kids up without a massive headache for over 6 months.
I’ve learned...

 

[drboobay]

Surely few people would agree to completely shut down the economy to lower the risk of death by 1 person.

So there is an economic calculus. But we dont know yet how to smartly manage the risks of this novel virus. No scientific answers yet on treatments, risks or interactions.

We have a European cruise set for early June and then a short trip from Rome to Beirut for my family to finally meet scores of relatives. Not cancelled yet. Not super hopeful but won't poo poo human ingenuity.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Surely few people would agree to completely shut down the economy to lower the risk of death by 1 person.

So there is an economic calculus. But we dont know yet how to smartly manage the risks of this novel virus. No scientific answers yet on treatments, risks or interactions.

We have a European cruise set for early June and then a short trip from Rome to Beirut for my family to finally meet scores of relatives. Not cancelled yet. Not super hopeful but won't poo poo human ingenuity.

It'll almost certainly be safer in Europe in early June than in the US. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were significant restrictions on Americans entering Europe then.

 

[Henry Kendall]

Moral relativism. Really. A year from now, when this is past us, there will be no discussion on here about flu deaths. We will be back to talking about TU sports. Which is a great thing. But there will be no moral relativism charges leveled at me then. Life will go on, another 30,000-60,000 dead, if anyone notices or cares.

Meanwhile, the governor of Nevada has banned doctors from using any malaria drugs on coronavirus patients. You want to talk smh?

 

[chito_and_leon]

Moral relativism. Really. A year from now, when this is past us, there will be no discussion on here about flu deaths. We will be back to talking about TU sports. Which is a great thing. But there will be no moral relativism charges leveled at me then. Life will go on, another 30,000-60,000 dead, if anyone notices or cares.

Meanwhile, the governor of Nevada has banned doctors from using any malaria drugs on coronavirus patients. You want to talk smh?

I dont think you understand what moral relativism is. "Two wrongs make a right" as you are arguing is definitionally relativistic. The fact that we get over it doesn't make it any less relativistic, in fact it's completely irrelevant for it.

Its not inherently irrational to ban use of unproven drugs or approved drugs for unapproved uses. In fact it's the premise of our entire drug system. Obviously you know that. Banning illegal activity makes you smh but only when you disagree with the law. I bet you're fine enforcing laws that you approve of. I'd mention the moral concept that reflects but thats probably not necessary.

 

[lawpoke87]

I dont think you understand what moral relativism is. "Two wrongs make a right" as you are arguing is definitionally relativistic. The fact that we get over it doesn't make it any less relativistic, in fact it's completely irrelevant for it.

Its not inherently irrational to ban use of unproven drugs or approved drugs for unapproved uses. In fact it's the premise of our entire drug system. Obviously you know that. Banning illegal activity makes you smh but only when you disagree with the law. I bet you're fine enforcing laws that you approve of. I'd mention the moral concept that reflects but thats probably not necessary.

The problem is that he banned a drug which is now being given to thousands of critical patients in New York and across the country solely because Trump mentioned it in a presser. Not sure I've ever seen such a thing.

 

[chito_and_leon]

The problem is that he banned a drug which is now being given to thousands of critical patients in New York and across the country solely because Trump mentioned it in a presser. Not sure I've ever seen such a thing.

New York is conducting FDA approved clinical trials. Those are legal. There's one small anecdotal report out of france that it works snd one small study out of China that it doesn't. Do we really want doctors prescribing it like candy based on that? Especially since it does have side effects? I dont think it's irrational to wait for at least some tidbit of scientific proof. Next well have people treating it with crystals and ground up unicorn horns.

 

[lawpoke87]

New York is conducting FDA approved clinical trials. Those are legal. There's one small anecdotal report out of france that it works snd one small study out of China that it doesn't. Do we really want doctors prescribing it like candy based on that? Especially since it does have side effects? I dont think it's irrational to wait for at least some tidbit of scientific proof. Next well have people treating it with crystals and ground up unicorn horns.

Doctors have leeway to prescribe a variety of drugs in different situations. Doctors are prescribing these drugs across the country at this moment including Oklahoma. A governor prohibiting Doctors from prescribing a drug they feel is the best chance for their patients survival because of politics borders on criminal. It’s beyond pathetic.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Doctors have leeway to prescribe a variety of drugs in different situations. Doctors are prescribing these drugs across the country at this moment including Oklahoma. A governor prohibiting Doctors from prescribing a drug they feel is the best chance for their patients survival because of politics borders on criminal. It’s beyond pathetic.

Doctors cant just prescribe whatever they want for any old disease. They need to have some medical basis and there is no basis for these prescriptions. Banning doctors from engaging in quackery is very reasonable. You have people and doctors getting caught up in hysteria and hype because Dr Oz talks about something. Its not like doctors are infallible (oxycontin, antibioticd). They are regulated for a reason Its ridiculous. Well know soon enough if it works.

 

[lawpoke87]

Doctors cant just prescribe whatever they want for any old disease. They need to have some medical basis and there is no basis for these prescriptions. Banning doctors from engaging in quackery is very reasonable. You have people and doctors getting caught up in hysteria and hype because Dr Oz talks about something. Its not like doctors are infallible (oxycontin, antibioticd). They are regulated for a reason Its ridiculous. Well know soon enough if it works.

There’s a reason why NY ordered 6M of these treatments. There’s medical papers from France and China documenting success...which is why they are now being tried by the thousands across the country. Doctors have wide latitude to prescribe drugs to critical patients...especially when no other options are available...and the drug has been safely used for other ailments for decades. Again...this treatment is being tried across the country. Including here in Tulsa. For a non-doctor to prohibit such an option for his state due to politics is outrageous.

I can’t imagine if I had a family member in ICU with the virus and my doctor believed this drug gave them the best chance of survival (and knowing it’s being administered by the thousands across the country) being told no because a politician has a grudge against the President. It’s criminal behavior.

 

[chito_and_leon]

There’s a reason why NY ordered 6M of these treatments. There’s medical papers from France and China documenting success...which is why they are now being tried by the thousands across the country. Doctors have wide latitude to prescribe drugs to critical patients...especially when no other options are available...and the drug has been safely used for other ailments for decades. Again...this treatment is being tried across the country. Including here in Tulsa. For a non-doctor to prohibit such an option for his state due to politics is outrageous.

I can’t imagine if I had a family member in ICU with the virus and my doctor believed this drug gave them the best chance of survival (and knowing it’s being administered by the thousands across the country) being told no because a politician has a grudge against the President. It’s criminal behavior.

The Nevada regulations allow for its prescription in in-patient settings so doctors in hospitals can prescribe it for covid if they want. So your ICU family member is going to get it. Fwiw a number of "red" states have also taken action to limit prescription of the drugs because it is running short. So apparently people without a political agenda have come to a similar conclusion. I'm not sure if this is all necessary but the political angle seems to be misplaced. This is a fairly mainstream action that the lunatic fringe seems to have misinterpreted and then publicized.

What if your family members doctor wanted to prescribe anti-psychotics because the doctor heard from a friend that they worked. Would you be ok with that? What if Dr Oz touted it?

https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...riptions-for-experimental-covid-19-drugs.html

 

[lawpoke87]

This was from March 10th. Explains some of the science behind the idea that this might help some patients.

 

[lawpoke87]

What if your family members doctor wanted to prescribe anti-psychotics because the doctor heard from a friend that they worked. Would you be ok with that? What if Dr Oz touted it?

l

You're comparing an anti-psychotic drug to a drug which has been around 80 years and taken by upwards of a hundred million people? Come on. You're analogy is almost as ridiculous as the Gov of Nevada's comment.

What does Dr. Oz have to do with any of this discussion? This is a drug now being given to thousands upon thousands of patients across the country.

The link you provided says that various states have prohibited the writing of scripts of those drugs by doctors unless the user is showing signs of the virus. It was needed because doctors were writing scripts to themselves and family members just in case they might become infected. Guess those thousands of doctors are caught up in crystals and ground up unicorn horns as well.

 

[chito_and_leon]

You're comparing an anti-psychotic drug to a drug which has been around 80 years and taken by upwards of a hundred million people? Come on. You're analogy is almost as ridiculous as the Gov of Nevada's comment.

What does Dr. Oz have to do with any of this discussion? This is a drug now being given to thousands upon thousands of patients across the country.

The link you provided says that various states have prohibited the writing of scripts of those drugs by doctors unless the user is showing signs of the virus. It was needed because doctors were writing scripts to themselves and family members just in case they might become infected. Guess those thousands of doctors are caught up in crystals and ground up unicorn horns as well.

Both these drugs and anti-psychotics have no scientific proof of efficacy other than random opinions and both have side effects. Anti psychotic have been prescribed to tens of millions of people too. Some studies say the malaria drugs work some say they don't. The French study didn't even have a control group! They compared outcomes to patients in different hispitals in different cities. Only about 25% of drugs that show initial phase 1 signs of success ever actually end up working. We all hope they work but its dangerous to prescribe drugs because tv personalities push them (Dr Oz has been playing up the malaria drugs as well as Trump) without proof. People are getting desperate and will fall victim to charlatans, con men and know nothings.

Other states are limiting use of these drugs, the need to limit use is widespread. Nevada went farther than them. I suspect well see other states join Nevada if their current actions are not enough.

Anyway nevada lets doctors in hospitals prescribe them. So people who have been hospitalized can get them. You just can't get them for your runny nose.

 

[lawpoke87]

Both these drugs and anti-psychotics have no scientific proof of efficacy other than random opinions and both have side effects. Some studies say the malaria drugs work some say they don't. The French study didn't even have a control group! They compared outcomes to patients in different hispitals in different cities. Only about 25% of drugs that show initial phase 1 signs of success ever actually end up working. We all hope they work but its dangerous to prescribe drugs because tv personaluties push them (Dr Oz has been playing up the malaria drugs as well as Trump) without proof. People are getting desperate and will fall victim to charlatans, con men and know nothings.

Other states are limiting use of these drugs, the need to limit use is widespread. Nevada went farther than them. I suspect well see other states join Nevada if their current actions are not enough.

Anyway nevada lets doctors in hospitals prescribe them to people with few other options so if they don't have much to lose they can get them. You just can't get them for your runny nose.

I was fine with the discussion until you supported banning these drugs on the basis that their use was illegal. I agree with your statement that when there are no other viable options using a drug for an experimental treatment is acceptable. I also agree that they should not be prescribed without a confirmation of the virus. I obviously don't know if they will work or not. However, there must be a lot of doctors out there who have at least seen something to make them believe there's a possibility of at least some measure of success.

 

[chito_and_leon]

You're comparing an anti-psychotic drug to a drug which has been around 80 years and taken by upwards of a hundred million people? Come on. You're analogy is almost as ridiculous as the Gov of Nevada's comment.

What does Dr. Oz have to do with any of this discussion? This is a drug now being given to thousands upon thousands of patients across the country.

The link you provided says that various states have prohibited the writing of scripts of those drugs by doctors unless the user is showing signs of the virus. It was needed because doctors were writing scripts to themselves and family members just in case they might become infected. Guess those thousands of doctors are caught up in crystals and ground up unicorn horns as well.

Some rando doc should claim that medicinal marijuana stops covid. That would at least help with the national mood.

 

[chito_and_leon]

However, there must be a lot of doctors out there who have at least seen something to make them believe there's a possibility of at least some measure of success.

Theres certainly no reason to think this. Most doctors have little ability to tell if their treatments work - this is a major problem in medicine generally. They get caught up in hysteria and trends just like everyone else. Doctors see what they want to see becsuer theyre human. That's why studies need to be blind.

The same drive behind hoarding toilet paper is behind this.

More on the long, sordid and well documented trend of doctors not to have a clue.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/02/when-evidence-says-no-but-doctors-say-yes/517368/

 

[chito_and_leon]

Here's a bunch of other things being tested. Hopefully something in all these things helps.

The malaria drugs main proof is that they work in test tube studies. But they worked in test tube studies for other viruses too but when tested in living creatures did not work. In fact, they made one of the viruses worse when tested in primates (I guess they didn't make it to human studies). The French study has so many "irregularities" that it seems it might have basically been faked.

Since the original tests on the malaria drugs came from China, will trump refer to it as the Chinese Coronavirus Cure?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/tracking-development-coronavirus-treatments-n1166691

 

[lawpoke87]

Hopefully we find something which works...and soon. I don’t care what he or anyone else calls it. I just want a treatment or better yet, a cure.

 

[chito_and_leon]

Hopefully we find something which works...and soon. I don’t care what he or anyone else calls it. I just want a treatment or better yet, a cure.

Amen to that. Hopefully the talking heads' fixation on the malaria drug doesn't divert resources from looking at the other candidates as well. The more in the pipeline, the better the chance.

 

[drboobay]

For the most part doctors CAN prescribe any FDA approved drug for anything they want. It is called off label prescribing. But insurance often will not reimburse.

I imagine if they abused this privilege to the point of harm they could have disciplinary action taken.

 

[TU_BLA]

TU_BLA said:

↑



There are significant cultural difference between the US and South Korea and Japan. A much better comparison would be Europe. Let’s see how those countries respond and make that comparison.

That said....we have real problems in NYC and California. NYC due to population density and California due to their huge homeless population (among other things). 1.8M people rode the NYC subway on Weds. That’s obviously not going to work.

As I’ve previously stated, the CDC needs to answer questions about the faulty tests. There’s absolutely no excuse for our top government doctors and scientist not being able to produce a viable test. The WHO waited far too late to declare a pandemic and failed to advise countries to close their borders to China. I believe we were the first country to deny entry. The WHO should have recommended quarantining China in January. Lots of missteps in hindsight.

Curious...what specifically did Trump fail to do? He certainly cut off travel from China before anyone else. Might use our response to the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic as a measuring stick.
Trump failed to defer to actual medical experts in the early going. You don’t appoint a Bible thumping Boy Scout to lead your response team. You pick the head of the CDC in conjunction with the leader of the NIH to formulate a plan to curb the spread, get testing and resources to where they need to go, etc. trump has to be center stage at all times. He has to be the one who gets credit, he has to be in front of the camera. Every time he steps to the mic, the market drops another 1000 pts. Direct correlation to the lack of confidence people have in Trump’s ability to actually lead. Today he was asked a question about what he could say to the American people to allay their fears. His response was “you’re a terrible reporter”. The question wasn’t phrased rudely, didn’t seem to be a botch type of question. Same question was asked of Pence later and he responded appropriately and rather reassuring.

Not trying to be rude or offensive TUBla, but I've noticed you seem to have problems with quoting over the last two or three weeks? What changed.
[/quote]
If I’m using the mobile app on my iPad it comes out all jacked up. I just hit the “quote” button at the bottom and this is how it comes out. If I’m on the regular website it usually comes out fine

 

[chito_and_leon]

For the most part doctors CAN prescribe any FDA approved drug for anything they want. It is called off label prescribing. But insurance often will not reimburse.

I imagine if they abused this privilege to the point of harm they could have disciplinary action taken.

I stand corrected. Next time my doctor says I'm fat, I'm going to tell het to give me some off label Percocet to treat it, might as well make it fun.

We're at 2438 deaths in the US, just over halfway to Henry kendalls estimate and just under 1/2 of mine. I think my estimate will prove to have been wildly optimistic. I'd probably go with 10k and a prayer now. Fauci says ignore the worst case estimates, when he does he sees 100k - 200k deaths in the US. We have a long road ahead if that's what happens.

 

[TU1NNJ]

This thread topic should be changed from 2 TU players test positive for virus to TU fan experts debate virus treatment protocols, off label prescribing by physicians, statistical likelihood of final death toll and politics. I have no need to watch any of the news outlets - Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc... it is all here! If Chris Harmon could stream video of the debate live he would have a new revenue stream.

 

[chito_and_leon]

This thread topic should be changed from 2 TU players test positive for virus to TU fan experts debate virus treatment protocols, off label prescribing by physicians, statistical likelihood of final death toll and politics. I have no need to watch any of the news outlets - Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc... it is all here! If Chris Harmon could stream video of the debate live he would have a new revenue stream.

But then I'd have to shower and change out of pajamas.

 

[astonmartin708]

But then I'd have to shower and change out of pajamas.

Pull the weatherman. Go sport coat on top and Hawaiian shorts on bottom.