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Unintelligent voting precinct procedures!

That's why you have a # on paper, and in a system that doesn't go online with this data, as well as people who remember this data. It can, and would be caught in Oklahoma if it was hacked, or any other similar system. If it's attacked before the #'s are tabulated, no matter how much more difficult, the #ers are impossible for you to catch. You can't remember, or have all the #ers on your desk at that stage. There is always the paper ballots to recount, as a back stop if that happens. But if you aren't aware it's happened, then who calls for a recount. (which is less likely in a system that is hacked in the middle of the tabulation) Not putting it online until the end has it's advantages.
I’m not quite sure what you mean with the above.

But in most jurisdictions there’s logic and accuracy testing that happens publicly with each tabulator at the beginning of the day that is printed out. In short, they test the counters. Then they publicly zero them out. Then the real votes are tabulated as each ballot is entered. Then the end totals are compiled and a second test confirms that the counting was correct. That is also printed out and can be reconciled with the actual paper ballots in the box after the results are uploaded at the end of the day. Any discrepancy is forwarded to the Election Board. Again this all happens in real time in public with monitors to observe should they wish to be there.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

Exactly. The system worked last time but as we have seen in places like Turkey, if you insert your people into the courts, civil service, and military, de facto you end up with a coup of the system. This is my worry. And hearing smart folks like Chris not being too worried just concerns me more!
And Israel.(Renovating the judges in charge and their powers.) Moves like this by Israel make them seem third world, and they want to think of themselves as first world. We didn't do much to question them on this, but supported them like they expected,(against Hamas) after they pulled this. We helped them to become a first world country, so we have the right to make stipulations that they act like one.

This was Netanyahu, not Israel that pulled this. We should have made Netanyahu make concessions before we gave them full support on this.(Like I will pull out of political life on such and such date. Or I will reinstate the old rules on judges/reinstate judges.)
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2024 Election prediction/discussion

Even though they would not be able to overthrow the government, they did have the capability to capture members of congress, and hold them hostage, if they hadn't mostly left in the time the rioters were held at bay outside. And there were a few that had weapons. Regardless, this was a weak disorganized and poorly looking response from our government. And the reason it appeared that way was because of Trump's lack of action. Also he willfully didn't act.

This was not a good look as you often point out about other events. This look could embolden others to make better plans and try it again, whether it was other citizens that were unhappy or a foreign government seeing this as a window to exploit. I just don't understand how republicans can excuse this. I will just about guarantee you that if this was a Democrat President who pulled this, there would be a united chorus coming out of the Republican peanut gallery of voters and politicians. And there would be Democrat defectors who were speaking out against it, the same as there are Republican defectors now.

We really don't ever want to be put in this situation, where our congressman are in fear for their safety. We want to be a strong nation that never had that happen, and certainly not in our capital. Until Jan 6, we were that nation.
Agee. I am in no way defending J6. It was a disgraceful act which can never again occur. My only contention is with the notion that these idiots almost overthrew the US government.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

it's So weird to me that people think the Chinese have some crazy interest in Ukraine.

Russia has always been weary of the Chinese in eastern Russia and hell they have fought multiple wars. An the treaty of Peking to this day has been viewed as an absolute disgrace for China.
I don't think the Chinese has an interest in Ukraine or the Russians have an interest in Taiwan. But I think that despite Russia/Putin's wariness (And it does come down to Putin. Russia isn't wary of anything if Putin isn't wary. His rule is iron. We know that because we saw it seriously threatened for the first time, and now Prigozhin is dead.)

Putin's actions say that he would trust China in a joint war against the West. If we attacked either of their soil, I believe both would think it of necessity to help each other to defend themselves. Because if we were successful in defeating one of them, then they wouldn't have that ally in the future. The concept is power in numbers, and taking advantage of it, before it disappears. To defend each other is to also give each other more ability to take actions that the US/West might have a problem with.(Ukraine/Taiwan) You help me with this task, and I'll back you up with yours.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

If you can’t understand why a several hundred unarmed people without any assistance from the police, FBI, CIA or military can’t overthrow the U.S. government then I can’t help you here. This might be the stupidest argument yet.
I have said this ad naseum and mentioned this many times on this board. J6 was the culmination of his BS. Jeff Clark and plenty of his legal team were working to get legislators to overturn the vote in each state.

Chris's third grade level of analysis of the use of the word fight is where we are today. The continual lack of nuance is truly disappointing.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

My only fear is that Trump will break down those checks with both the house and Senate going Republican. He will be given carte blanche on appointments and attempt to change the civil servants hirings and firings, that he has so far been forbade from touching.
Trump understands how the government works this time around and will be out for vengeance. He says as much. Before he kind of held back.

there are some extreme wackadoos being tossed out for AG like Mike Davis. I have a hard time he gets through confirmation but you don't know.

On the flip side, there are some people that I have hard time believing that won't be supportive of Ukraine like Pompeo or Rubio being tossed for defense. I guess pompeo is out though.
And if Obama had sent over troops to stop Putin from taking Crimea, it might have turned into WWIII. Same with Biden sending over troops. You don't have a clue what China/Iran/N Korea's reaction to that would have been. That's why neither Obama or Biden was quick to send over troops. Then we might be having arguments over the funding of a long drawn out battle, and loss of lives. It's not like these moves had no consequences.
it's So weird to me that people think the Chinese have some crazy interest in Ukraine.

Russia has always been weary of the Chinese in eastern Russia and hell they have fought multiple wars. An the treaty of Peking to this day has been viewed as an absolute disgrace for China.
I see reason just fine. Frame it however you like, but my point stands. The last two losing candidates talked about "fighting" in their speeches after the election. Both speeches were in front of thousands. Neither were calling for the government to be overthrown. You are asking me to suspend logic and reason to say that it's okay for one side to say it, but wrong for the other side to say it. I don't apply rules that way.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

Even though they would not be able to overthrow the government, they did have the capability to capture members of congress, if they hadn't mostly left in the time the rioters were held at bay outside. And there were a few that had weapons. Regardless, this was a weak disorganized and poorly looking response from our government. And the reason it appeared that way was because of Trump's lack of action. Also he willfully didn't act.

This was not a good look as you often point out about other events. This look could embolden others to make better plans and try it again, whether it was other citizens that were unhappy or a foreign government seeing this as a window to exploit. I just don't understand how republicans can excuse this. I will just about guarantee you that if this was a Democrat President who pulled this, there would be a united chorus coming out of the Republican peanut gallery of voters and politicians. And there would be Democrat defectors who were speaking out against it, the same as there are Republican defectors now.
Agree 100% and don't understand how anyone can see it otherwise.

2024 Election prediction/discussion

If you can’t understand why a several hundred unarmed people without any assistance from the police, FBI, CIA or military can’t overthrow the U.S. government then I can’t help you here. This might be the stupidest argument yet.
Even though they would not be able to overthrow the government, they did have the capability to capture members of congress, and hold them hostage, if they hadn't mostly left in the time the rioters were held at bay outside. And there were a few that had weapons. Regardless, this was a weak disorganized and poorly looking response from our government. And the reason it appeared that way was because of Trump's lack of action. Also he willfully didn't act.

This was not a good look as you often point out about other events. This look could embolden others to make better plans and try it again, whether it was other citizens that were unhappy or a foreign government seeing this as a window to exploit. I just don't understand how republicans can excuse this. I will just about guarantee you that if this was a Democrat President who pulled this, there would be a united chorus coming out of the Republican peanut gallery of voters and politicians. And there would be Democrat defectors who were speaking out against it, the same as there are Republican defectors now.

We really don't ever want to be put in this situation, where our congressman are in fear for their safety. We want to be a strong nation that never had that happen, and certainly not in our capital. Until Jan 6, we were that nation.
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