Unfortunate loopholes in the 25th Amendment.

[TUMe]

If and when a president thus declared unable subsequently issues a declaration stating that they are able, then a four-day period begins during which the vice president remains acting president.[11][12]:38n137 If by the end of this period the vice president and a majority of the "principal officers of the executive departments" have not issued a second declaration of the president's incapacity, then the president resumes his powers and duties.

But if a second declaration of incapacity is issued within the four days, then the vice president remains acting president while Congress considers the matter. Then if within 21 days the Senate and the House determine, each by a two-thirds vote, that the president is unable, then the vice president continues as acting president; otherwise the president resumes his powers and duties.[note 2]

Section 4's requirement of a two-thirds vote of the House and a two-thirds vote of the Senate contrasts with the Constitution's procedure for removal of the president from office for "high crimes and misdemeanors" – a majority of the House followed by two-thirds of the Senate (Article I, Section 3, Clauses 5 and 6).[14][15]

The vice president's participation is an essential element; vacancy in the vice presidency rules out invocation of Section 4.[16]

A clever but evil President with 12 days to go, could let the Amendment take effect then as the clock ticks down, declaring himself able to return. With a short period of time left, both Houses would need 2/3 majority within days or hours. Failling to get that then the plan get that becomes tough.

If this seems farfetched, then what doesn't in 2020/2021?

 

[astonmartin708]

The 25th amendment isn’t the appropriate Avenue for Trump. He needs to be impeached and he should be removed from office in disgrace. Even if it’s just for a day or two. There have to be consequences to actions. Voting someone out isn’t sufficient enough. Bush 1.0 was voted out and he did nothing remotely as bad as Trump. Trump needs to forever have an asterisk next to his name as the first president to be legally and forceably removed from office for the audacious and authoritarian (and frequently illegal if not traitorous) stunts he has pulled in his tenure.

 

[TUMe]

H. W. Bush had another problem. H. Ross Perot got 19 percent of the vote. Amoung the highest ever for a third party. This split the "Conservative" vote.

 

[astonmartin708]

H. W. Bush had another problem. H. Ross Perot got 19 percent of the vote. Amoung the highest ever for a third party. This split the "Conservative" vote.

I'm aware of what happened. I'm just saying, that being voted out after 4 years is not sufficient punishment for what Trump did. Heck, Carter got voted out after 4 and he was one of the most respectable Presidents around in terms of his adherence to constitutional principles. Trump got voted out because he sucked at his job. He should be removed from office and charged criminally because he did criminal things.

 

[watu04]

Impeachment is the tool for addressing presidential actions that the criminal code may not exactly define as criminal. It was designed to be used as a mechanism for saying “You’re fired!” A president’s number 1 responsibility is to protect the nation which he failed to do with both Covid and his false election claims. He needs to be fired and permanently barred from office.

 

[TUMe]

I'm aware of what happened. I'm just saying, that being voted out after 4 years is not sufficient punishment for what Trump did. Heck, Carter got voted out after 4 and he was one of the most respectable Presidents around in terms of his adherence to constitutional principles. Trump got voted out because he sucked at his job. He should be removed from office and charged criminally because he did criminal things.

Carter was/is a fine person. But 16% intest on a home loan (I was lucky and got one for 14%), 12 % unemployment, massive layoffs, etc. will get a president sent away. It isn't criminal but it isn't popular either.

 

[astonmartin708]

Carter was/is a fine person. But 16% intest on a home loan (I was lucky and got one for 14%), 12 % unemployment, massive layoffs, etc. will get a president sent away. It isn't criminal but it isn't popular either.

I know he wasn’t popular. I know he wasn’t perceived to have done an adequate job. He wasn’t starting violent insurrection against congress or accusing Reagan of cheating either though. He wasn’t lying to the American people on an hourly basis, or encouraging other members of his party to do the same.

The dude was honestly too nice for the presidency. To insinuate that simply letting Trump walk quietly out of the office like we did with Carter or Bush 1.0 should be punishment enough is a disservice to those men, who weren’t bad men like Trump is. They were all bad presidents to some degree, but only Trump is a legitimately bad human being.

 

[TUMe]

I am not saying that Trump should quietly walk out of office. He may because of the timing being so limited, especially with recesses, but they can be changed.

Yes Carter was too nice for the presidency. That is an unusual weekness. But people lived through those times and it was no fun. I had a 16 percent CD. I saw people get a "baloon loan." They thought it would be short lived but wound up with debt they couldn't pay and no one who wanted their house. I saw some extreme (localized) layoffs of thousands. All of it wasn't Carter's fault.

 

[watu04]

Carter may not have been a great executive, but his post office actions define him as a fine person with a sincere interest in democracy. In office he had his wins too.

What president’s do after they leave office says a lot about them. The norm is that former presidents keep a low profile after leaving office. Not going to happen this time now that Trump has a $250M war chest fraudulently raised claiming it was for his election law suits. Self promotion, grievances and anger are all he knows how to do.

 

[astonmartin708]

Carter may not have been a great executive, but his post office actions define him as a fine person with a sincere interest in democracy. In office he had his wins too.

What president’s do after they leave office says a lot about them. The norm is that former presidents keep a low profile after leaving office. Not going to happen this time now that Trump has a $250M war chest fraudulently raised claiming it was for his election law suits. Self promotion, grievances and anger are all he knows how to do.

Probably needed it to pay off his debts to Deutsche

 

[HuffyCane]

Carter was mainly a bad President because he was forced into a lot of really bad ideas by an unrestrained Congress because the Republicans were still powerless after Watergate. He was a political outsider who had no idea how to handle Congress and he hired a bunch of people who owed Congress and not him.

I have very little favorable to say about a man that voted to restore the citizenship of Robert E Lee. But I will say I’m glad the incoming President knows how to bulldog Congress. The question will be if he has the moral strength to stand up to them behind the scenes or if he will just help his buddies. He has four decades of favors to repay.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Carter may not have been a great executive, but his post office actions define him as a fine person with a sincere interest in democracy. In office he had his wins too.

What president’s do after they leave office says a lot about them. The norm is that former presidents keep a low profile after leaving office. Not going to happen this time now that Trump has a $250M war chest fraudulently raised claiming it was for his election law suits. Self promotion, grievances and anger are all he knows how to do.

Did need to pay off his debts, not probably. He has 400m in loans coming due.

I bet he's thinking he needs to add a new chapter to "The Art of the Deal."

How to have a bunch of loons give up their hard earned $$$, to pay off all the deals you f*@%*ed off yesterday.

 

[astonmartin708]

Carter was mainly a bad President because he was forced into a lot of really bad ideas by an unrestrained Congress because the Republicans were still powerless after Watergate. He was a political outsider who had no idea how to handle Congress and he hired a bunch of people who owed Congress and not him.

I have very little favorable to say about a man that voted to restore the citizenship of Robert E Lee. But I will say I’m glad the incoming President knows how to bulldog Congress. The question will be if he has the moral strength to stand up to them behind the scenes or if he will just help his buddies. He has four decades of favors to repay.

But you have voraciously defended the guy who asked his supporters carrying battle flags of Lee's Confederate Army of Virginia to storm the United States Capitol and disrupt the election for it's presidency....

 

[HuffyCane]

But you still voraciously defend the guy who asked his supporters carrying battle flags of Lee's Confederate Army of Virginia to storm the United States Capitol and disrupt the election for it's presidency?

I defend nothing about that incident, including those who organized, supported, participated, or apologize for it.

You wanna talk about Biden’s voting record on school desegregation and busing or wait until later?

 

[astonmartin708]

I defend nothing about that incident, including those who organized, supported, participated, or apologize for it.

You wanna talk about Biden’s voting record on school desegregation and busing or wait until later?

Legislation mostly taken up as part of the Republican’s southern strategy? Sure I’ll talk about it.