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Ukraine….what’s our endgame here

So you don’t believe we will find Zelensky put millions on his pocket from this war?
What that man has done for his country is worth millions. Trump blows millions golfing every week and hasn’t actually done much to “help” the country. So who cares?

I would have preferred his troops to get more of that value of course. It would somewhat surprise me if he had personally pocketed anything considering that he ousted subordinates for doing that and it would easily be used by Russia for propaganda purposes.
 
It would somewhat surprise me if he had personally pocketed anything considering that he ousted subordinates for doing that and it would easily be used by Russia for propaganda purposes.
We will see who’s correct here.
 
What leads you, based on his character or actions to believe that he would pocket money?
Mainly based on the history of corruption of leaders in that part of the world. I would be very surprised if he isn’t lining his pockets
 
So you don’t believe we will find Zelensky put millions on his pocket from this war?
You know this accusation is coming from Trump. I guarantee it.

He is already making up insane stuff. 300 billion given. 4% approval ratings. Zelenksy is a dictator who doesn't support democracy, etc... these people are fighting to stay out of Putinista mafioso tyranny and be in Western EU values.

Now he is tired and bored... Trump isn't serious enough for a conversation like this. His way of doing things is just to make stuff up. To his ardent supporters, it is just cute; that is just the trump way. He is the only politician I have ever seen who can say the craziest stuff, and people do this.

When you are playing international politics with 100s of thousands of people dying, losing their homes, millions being displaced, dealing with a dictator who has lied about conflicts and wanted to bring back the Soviet Union?

When do you get to believe him?

He throws out crazy numbers, like 500 billion in rare earths. That is just his starting point... you know, because Ukraine was responsible for this war, right?

Even Brian Kilmeade has said, "Mr President, you have to agree Ukraine did not start this war, right?"
 
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You know this accusation is coming from Trump. I guarantee it.

He is already making up insane stuff. 300 billion given. 4% approval ratings. Zelenksy is a dictator who doesn't support democracy, etc... these people are fighting to stay out of Putinista mafioso tyranny and be in Western EU values.

Now he is tired and bored... Trump isn't serious enough for a conversation like this. His way of doing things is just to make stuff up. To his ardent supporters, it is just cute; that is just the trump way. He is the only politician I have ever seen who can say the craziest stuff, and people do this.

When you are playing international politics with 100s of thousands of people dying, losing their homes, millions being displaced, dealing with a dictator who has lied about conflicts and wanted to bring back the Soviet Union?

When do you get to believe him?

He throws out crazy numbers, like 500 billion in rare earths. That is just his starting point... you know, because Ukraine was responsible for this war, right?

Even Brian Kilmeade has said, "Mr President, you have to agree Ukraine did not start this war, right?"
The fact his defense minister was able to steal $46M showed me there’s not a lot of accountability with those funds. Like I said above, government officials getting rich off “misallocated” funds is common fare in the old Soviet states. Which is why I made my prediction. You want to join Team Aston and disagree with me?
 
The fact his defense minister was able to steal $46M showed me there’s not a lot of accountability with those funds. Like I said above, government officials getting rich off “misallocated” funds is common fare in the old Soviet states. Which is why I made my prediction. You want to join Team Aston and disagree with me?
Can you at least agree that both Putin and Donald Trump have done similar things by shifting public funds towards themselves? (I'm not necessarily saying outright swiping money, but pushing government spending towards business ventures they have a part in, etc...)
 
Mr. "I Surrender" fires a fairly qualified Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (first time in history that's happened).... to replace him with a loyalist 3 star general who has little command experience over major operations.
 
Not ust abandoning Ukraine, but ripping it off. Payback time.

The United States has threatened to cut off Ukraine's access to Starlink satellite internet terminals if Kyiv does not reach a deal with the U.S. regarding critical mineral resources, Reuters reported on Feb. 21, citing three sources familiar with the negotiations.

U.S. and Ukrainian officials are currently negotiating the terms of a revised minerals deal after President Volodymyr Zelensky refused to sign an initial proposal. U.S. President Donald Trump said earlier on Feb. 21 that the parties are "pretty close" to an agreement.
 
Can you at least agree that both Putin and Donald Trump have done similar things by shifting public funds towards themselves? (I'm not necessarily saying outright swiping money, but pushing government spending towards business ventures they have a part in, etc...)
Trump was too direct in the shifting of money toward ventures benefiting him. The tried and true method is to direct large sums of public funds to your friends and supporters who in turn give that money back to your campaign war chest or foundations. The corruption and excessive spending in DC is hard to comprehend. Our political leaders aren’t becoming multi millionaires from their salaries.
 
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You know this accusation is coming from Trump. I guarantee it.

He is already making up insane stuff. 300 billion given. 4% approval ratings. Zelenksy is a dictator who doesn't support democracy, etc... these people are fighting to stay out of Putinista mafioso tyranny and be in Western EU values.

Now he is tired and bored... Trump isn't serious enough for a conversation like this. His way of doing things is just to make stuff up. To his ardent supporters, it is just cute; that is just the trump way. He is the only politician I have ever seen who can say the craziest stuff, and people do this.

When you are playing international politics with 100s of thousands of people dying, losing their homes, millions being displaced, dealing with a dictator who has lied about conflicts and wanted to bring back the Soviet Union?

When do you get to believe him?

He throws out crazy numbers, like 500 billion in rare earths. That is just his starting point... you know, because Ukraine was responsible for this war, right?

Even Brian Kilmeade has said, "Mr President, you have to agree Ukraine did not start this war, right?"

I don't consider him as legit as a politicaian. That's saying something. He is a dirty con man, with a narcissistic complex and nothing more. He just happened to con the American public into voting for him.
 
The fact his defense minister was able to steal $46M showed me there’s not a lot of accountability with those funds. Like I said above, government officials getting rich off “misallocated” funds is common fare in the old Soviet states. Which is why I made my prediction. You want to join Team Aston and disagree with me?
There is just as many con men in Trumps regime. Don't go throwing bricks in a glass house. At least they are fighting for something worth holding up as an ideal. I'll bet Trump's regime has just as much graft or more, than Zelensky's administration. Bannon is immediate proof of that.
 
Their are just as many con men in Trumps regime. Don't go throwing bricks in a glass house. At least they are fighting for something worth holding up as an ideal. I'll bet Trump's regime has just as much graft or more, than Zelensky's administration. Bannon is immediate proof of that.
I’ve said a thousand times, our politicians aren’t becoming millionaires off their salaries. Corruption is rampant in the US political system.
 
I’ve said a thousand times, our politicians aren’t becoming millionaires off their salaries. Corruption is rampant in the US political system.
So why are you expecting better out of Ukraine? Can't hold up an ideal that we don't meet and not feel a bit hypocritical.
 
Not ust abandoning Ukraine, but ripping it off. Payback time.

The United States has threatened to cut off Ukraine's access to Starlink satellite internet terminals if Kyiv does not reach a deal with the U.S. regarding critical mineral resources, Reuters reported on Feb. 21, citing three sources familiar with the negotiations.

U.S. and Ukrainian officials are currently negotiating the terms of a revised minerals deal after President Volodymyr Zelensky refused to sign an initial proposal. U.S. President Donald Trump said earlier on Feb. 21 that the parties are "pretty close" to an agreement.


Why is Ukraine paying for reparations and Russian getting free sanctions relief and access back to the G7?

This is wild.

We act like Ukraine is the aggressor. People are weird.
 
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how did Trump get billions from the war? Biden was the one who sent the money to them.
I mean, do you want an honesty answer? It’s plausible that Trump and his family would stand to gain quite a bit from both making Ukraine a weaker adversary for Putin as well as opening trade back up with Russia, and helping Putin castrate NATO.

Now I can’t prove that… but it’s just as plausible given Trump’s actual behavior as insinuating, without evidence, that Zelensky stole aide money.
 
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Paywall. So what is his solution to either win or stop this three year war?
Purely stopping the war is not a solution. You realize this war has been fought since 2014. If you include the screwing with Ukraine and paying off of politicians like Viktor Yanukovych It was long before that. Interestingly enough, do you know who helped run Viktor Yanukovych's 2010 campaign for Ukrainian president and then help rebrand his party 2014 before it was kicked out of power because it killed 108.....Paul Manafort.

Do you know who paid Paul Manafor 10s of million a year....Oleg Deripaska. You can't make this stuff up.
 
Purely stopping the war is not a solution. You realize this war has been fought since 2014. If you include the screwing with Ukraine and paying off of politicians like Viktor Yanukovych It was long before that. Interestingly enough, do you know who helped run Viktor Yanukovych's 2010 campaign for Ukrainian president and then help rebrand his party 2014 before it was kicked out of power because it killed 108.....Paul Manafort.

Do you know who paid Paul Manafor 10s of million a year....Oleg Deripaska. You can't make this stuff up.
A lot of people don't have a clue about past endeavors of people who have been in Trumps inner circle. They'd just excuse it though. They've excused so much, why would things like that put them off of Trump?
 
Real Question: Who is going to be the first person to resign before they have zero semblance of dignity left? I bet it is Marco Rubio or Keith Kellog. 95% of America has no idea who Keith Kellog is, and it seems like he has no power. Trump is marching out his crypto butt buddy Steve Wikoff to Russia. For those who don't know, Trump and Witkoff are partners in World Liberty Financial, which Steveo founded to benefit Trump 2 months before the election. Go check out Justin Sun. Interesting story there. ETA before the SEC magically drops those charges?

Fox That vote in the UN was one of the most embarrassing things in history there, except for trotting out Colin Powell with questionable intel about WMDs.

Putin is playing to Trump's most craven tendencies and playing him like a fiddle. Trump is so easily manipulated. Every leader knows it. I don't think they freak out about him anymore because they think he is a clown. They know they don't have to worry about a second term with him. He is old and stupid and doesn't have an attention span.

Putin is promising massive deals for rare earth metals to "make Ukraine pay it. It is insane.

Macron correcting him was just so embarrassing. He can't even get his basic facts straight. He wants to be big, big billy badass deal maker but can't get stuff straight.

What is Russia giving up? Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Trump wants to stop fighting so he can claim victory. The Europeans and Ukrainians know that doesn't mean anything. Putin cannot be trusted.

For some weird, weird, weird reason. The EU is the bad guy, but Russia is super cool. MAGA's orange blob leader has lost his way, but the GOP is a bunch of NPCs and too afraid to do anything.

 
Nobody is commenting about the elephant in the room? I was busy all day, and just looked at the news. What a lying freak show.

Trump couldn't stop saying he gave Zelensky javelins. In 2016 Trump gave some javelins to Ukraine, and Ukraine exchanged them for coin. I think Trump owes Xi Jinpeng an apology for not being appreciative for all the things Xi Jinpeng gave us for coin.
 
Trying to figure out Zelensky’s play here. Assume he thinks once it looks like Russia will take over the bulk of Ukraine then NATO will send troops into the conflict and turn the tide? Seems like quite the gamble as he watches men he can’t replace continue to die and territory he may never get back taken by Putin. Usually the side who is destined to lose is the one pushing peace. Not in this case

From CNN

 
Trying to figure out Zelensky’s play here. Assume he thinks once it looks like Russia will take over the bulk of Ukraine then NATO will send troops into the conflict and turn the tide? Seems like quite the gamble as he watches men he can’t replace continue to die and territory he may never get back taken by Putin. Usually the side who is destined to lose is the one pushing peace. Not in this case

From CNN

It was a trap. You notice that he sends the VP after Zelensky intentionally. That was all choreographed. Zelensky reacted to the affront just as Trump wanted him to. This way Trump saves face, lays the blame on Zelensky, and doesn't give Ukraine any guarantees of protection that Putin wouldn't tolerate. Trump blew up a deal for precious metals that didn't meet up to an indefinite supply of metals for free. That was the only possibility that would have stopped Trump from blowing this up intentionally. I somehow knew when Trump took back his claim that Zelensky was a dictator, that this was dangerous ground. Trump never takes back anything.

I hope Nato or European forces from GB &/or France will put troops in place and Putin backs down. That seems to be the only way this turns out well if that's even possible.
 
It was a trap. You notice that he sends the VP after Zelensky intentionally. That was all choreographed. Zelensky reacted to the affront just as Trump wanted him to. This way Trump saves face, lays the blame on Zelensky, and doesn't give Ukraine any guarantees of protection that Putin wouldn't tolerate. Trump blew up a deal for precious metals that didn't meet up to an indefinite supply of metals for free. That was the only possibility that would have stopped Trump from blowing this up intentionally. I somehow knew when Trump took back his claim that Zelensky was a dictator, that this was dangerous ground. Trump never takes back anything.

I hope Nato or European forces from GB &/or France will put troops in place and Putin backs down. That seems to be the only way this turns out well if that's even possible.
I just don’t see Europe putting boots on the ground and risking a large scale war on the continent. Eastern Ukraine was lost the minute the west sat their hands while Putin invaded. Russia is now defending fortified positions there. Ukraine continues to lose ground and troops. I’ll ask again….is Zelensky refusing a peace deal because he believes Europe will eventually send troops and turn the tide ? I see no other reason.
 
I just don’t see Europe putting boots on the ground and risking a large scale war on the continent. Eastern Ukraine was lost the minute the west sat their hands while Putin invaded. Russia is now defending fortified positions there. Ukraine continues to lose ground and troops. I’ll ask again….is Zelensky refusing a peace deal because he believes Europe will eventually send troops and turn the tide ? I see no other reason.
We both know the answer is yes, probably… so WHY DO YOU KEEP POSING THE SAME QUESTION?

No one answers you because the answer is a given. Why does he keep fighting? Because he is obliged to and he holds out hope that those who actually value democracy will come to his aid. Obviously that’s not the USA… and the idea that we risk WWIII with continuing to send weapons as we already had is ludicrous.

Why can Putin recruit conscripts from North Korea but Ukraine can’t get men from elsewhere? Call his bluff. If he wants to end the world due to grandiose ideals of a false Russo-centric history that he makes up for people as dumb as Tucker Carlson then so be it.
 
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We both know the answer is yes, probably… so WHY DO YOU KEEP POSING THE SAME QUESTION?

No one answers you because the answer is a given.
No one answers me because the pro war supporters don’t want to admit the answer. Just like they don’t want to discuss realistic options. They know a never ending war which Ukraine is losing is a bad idea. Yet they support such an approach because they have no other solutions other than a peace deal where Russia keeps some Ukrainian territory. The sheep won’t support such a solution until Zelensky does

Again….what is the realistic solution if the war is to continue ?
 
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The pro-Putin group that wants to abandon the Ukraine would like to pretend appeasing Putin will stop his aggression. That sort of appeasement only encourages more expansion, not less.
 
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No one answers me because the pro war supporters don’t want to admit the answer. Just like they don’t want to discuss realistic options. They know a never ending war which Ukraine is losing is a bad idea. Yet they support such an approach because they have no other solutions other than a peace deal where Russia keeps some Ukrainian territory. The sheep won’t support such a solution until Zelensky does

Again….what is the realistic solution if the war is to continue ?
You are full of it if you think that's why we don't answer you. Realistic options would be if we didn't have our first and hopefully last pro Putin President. Realistic options would be if Europe decides to go it alone and put boots on the ground. Realistic options are that if he signs a really crappy deal, which is all he'll get from Trump, then Russia will be back at him in just a very few years. Realistic options are to hope somebody gets some balls, because in a few years Russia would take over the beleaguered nation. The country who doesn't have full access to it's mineral wealth anymore, yes that country. That is unless the world stands up to Putin.(or he dies)

A really crappy peace deal is just kicking the can down the road. But you go ahead and continue advocating the crappiest deal that Zelensky can get. They are fighting for their land, wealth, freedom, and form of government. If 3 or 4 of them are lost in this junk deal then their fate is probably sealed. Zelensky knows that, Europe knows that, everybody that is not advocating this crappy deal knows that. I think I know who doesn't know that.

You still haven't addressed the fact that Trump intentionally sabotaged this crappy aforementioned deal that Zelensky was ready to sign on faith, but couldn't find a way through Trumps crap trap. Zelensky was 100% ready to sign the falsely agreed upon deal until Trump sabotaged him. Trump sabotaged him, not the other way around. It was Trump that didn't want to sign the deal. Zelensky wanted to continue talking. Trump is the one who refused.
 
Why can Putin recruit conscripts from North Korea but Ukraine can’t get men from elsewhere?
Perhaps that should tell you something.. the EU talks a mean game and sends a few Euros, but none of their youth are running to the front..all you guys that want to fight, i am sure that Zelensky will take you for cannon fodder.. i am pretty sure he will take anyone.. only he cant get the thousands upon thousands of fighting age Ukrainian males that are partying in clubs all over Europe to join his cause.. ( i had multiple Ukrainian exchange students and they me send pics of Berlin, Warsaw, Prague, and Vienna clubs)
 
You are full of it if you think that's why we don't answer you. Realistic options would be if we didn't have our first and hopefully last pro Putin President. Realistic options would be if Europe decides to go it alone and put boots on the ground. Realistic options are that if he signs a really crappy deal, which is all he'll get from Trump, then Russia will be back at him in just a very few years. Realistic options are to hope somebody gets some balls, because in a few years Russia would take over the beleaguered nation. The country who doesn't have full access to it's mineral wealth anymore, yes that country. That is unless the world stands up to Putin.(or he dies)

A really crappy peace deal is just kicking the can down the road. But you go ahead and continue advocating the crappiest deal that Zelensky can get. They are fighting for their land, wealth, freedom, and form of government. If 3 or 4 of them are lost in this junk deal then their fate is probably sealed. Zelensky knows that, Europe knows that, everybody that is not advocating this crappy deal knows that. I think I know who doesn't know that.

You still haven't addressed the fact that Trump intentionally sabotaged this crappy aforementioned deal that Zelensky was ready to sign on faith, but couldn't find a way through Trumps crap trap. Zelensky was 100% ready to sign the falsely agreed upon deal until Trump sabotaged him. Trump sabotaged him, not the other way around. It was Trump that didn't want to sign the deal. Zelensky wanted to continue talking. Trump is the one who refused.
That’s ridiculous. Trump has been president for what 7 weeks? What were the answers for the last 3 years? Why wasn’t there a peace deal? Why hasn’t anyone from the west advanced a realistic plan to win this war. Your obsession with Trump is cute but fails to address what the Biden admin has done either towards winning this war or bringing peace to Europe….nothing. It also ignores the fact the Biden Admin along with NATO is the reason Putin is occupying eastern Ukraine. Blame Trump and the last seven weeks all you want by Biden had three years with Zelensky and we’re still fighting and losing this war
 
That’s ridiculous. Trump has been president for what 7 weeks? What were the answers for the last 3 years? Why wasn’t there a peace deal? Why hasn’t anyone from the west advanced a realistic plan to win this war. Your obsession with Trump is cute but fails to address what the Biden admin has done either towards winning this war or bringing peace to Europe….nothing. It also ignores the fact the Biden Admin along with NATO is the reason Putin is occupying eastern Ukraine. Blame Trump and the last seven weeks all you want by Biden had three years with Zelensky and we’re still fighting and losing this war
You must be joking. What the hell does it matter that he's only been president 7 weeks. With the US armed forces and US economy at your command you can do what you want, especially if Europe, Mexico, and Canada are trying not to piss you off. Trump throwing jabs at Nato was very intentional, and part of this 'peace plan.' If you have Putin as your marionette operator instead of an enemy it's quite easy to Manipulate 'peace agreements' that angers most of the western world including Ukraine. Who is going to stop you, certainly not Putin. He wants this. You can do whatever you want in that situation.

Biden was in and out of dementia for a large part of those 3 years, and he wasn't Putin's marionette, he was his enemy. It's much easier to manipulate peace when Putin is your buddy, and desires what you are offering up to Russia. You act as if Putin doesn't want this. That was the main obstacle to a 'Peace Agreement.' SMH It's amazing how you ignore everything that is utterly obvious.

What does it matter what Biden did or didn't do, it matters what Trump is doing, and what Putin has manipulated a very wiling Trump into doing right now. You can bitch about Biden or Europe, or whomever, but they weren't pals with Putin. You can bitch about Biden till the cows come home, but he is gone from politics. That should be incredibly obvious over the last 7 weeks. He's certainly not going to come out of the oval office closet and arrange a peace deal. Biden has been virtually gone since Kamala took over the run for the presidency.
 
That’s ridiculous. Trump has been president for what 7 weeks? What were the answers for the last 3 years? Why wasn’t there a peace deal? Why hasn’t anyone from the west advanced a realistic plan to win this war. Your obsession with Trump is cute but fails to address what the Biden admin has done either towards winning this war or bringing peace to Europe….nothing. It also ignores the fact the Biden Admin along with NATO is the reason Putin is occupying eastern Ukraine. Blame Trump and the last seven weeks all you want by Biden had three years with Zelensky and we’re still fighting and losing this war
Biden owd Zelensky money, not a solution.
 
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