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Ukraine…..does he or doesn’t he?

Trump: Trump is currently an American individual with no power. Instead of leaving graciously, he left under Jan 6 which will follow him with moderate voters should he try to run again. In three years, he will be three years older, as will be many of his supporters.

Biden ran on not being Trump and woke voters. But he is president for better or worse. It should be possible to point out Biden's many weaknesses without talking about Trump. I will not support or vote for Trump. There will be other, more civilized Republicans. Astro just shows that for all his campaigning his best point for Biden is that he is not Trump.
There is unlikely to be other more civilized republicans on the national ticket for the GOP. The fact that Trump was there is the reason that we have a vanilla ice cream, geriatric politician in office at all.

Even with his vanilla ice cream nature, I think he’s doing an OK job dealing with this issue so far. He has limited bullets in his gun and he’s having to work more closely with allies than previous presidents have in terms of posturing to hopefully prevent further aggressions.
 
I seriously doubt we were uninvolved with the decision about Nord.
I don’t doubt we weren’t involved. I do believe the ultimate decision to cancel like the ultimate decision to approve was that of Germany. Some of us argued against Nord2 from the outset. Guess it took Putin to invade his neighbor for some to see the light
 
I don’t doubt we weren’t involved. I do believe the ultimate decision to cancel like the ultimate decision to approve was that of Germany. Some of us argued against Nord2 from the outset. Guess it took Putin to invade his neighbor for some to see the light
We all know it was Germany’s ultimate decision because it was their project. But they wouldn’t have been comfortable making that decision if they had not worked with us on alternate sources for the lost energy capacity.

There’s not a tremendous problem with NS2 if Russia is acting as a reliable and trusted trade partner. It’s when they become unreliable that it’s a problem.
 
We all know it was Germany’s ultimate decision because it was their project. But they wouldn’t have been comfortable making that decision if they had not worked with us on alternate sources for the lost energy capacity.

There’s not a tremendous problem with NS2 if Russia is acting as a reliable and trusted trade partner. It’s when they become unreliable that it’s a problem.
Putin was never going to be reliable longterm. There was always the threat of him using Europe’s dependency on his energy as a weapon. Which has been exactly my point for from the beginning. People conveniently forget what Putin is….until he reminds them. Bad policy by those in charge over there. Now they’re about to pay.

The US O&G production is down and currently has little political or financing support. Exactly how do we plan on replacing their lost energy capacity?
 
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Putin was never going to be reliable longterm. There was always the threat of him using Europe’s dependency on his energy as a weapon. Which has been exactly my point for from the beginning. People conveniently forget what Putin is….until he reminds them. Bad policy by those in charge over there. Now they’re about to pay.

The US O&G production is down and currently has little political or financing support. Exactly how do we plan on replacing their lost energy capacity?
UAE + LNG exports.
 
Regarding the 700k barrels of oil headed to the US…No plan to seize. Actually no sanctions at all on Russia oil and gas exports. Status quo apparently. They can keep selling and we along with everyone else can keep buying. Which of these announce sanctions will have any significant immediate impact ?
 
why are we getting oil from them? We have enough oil of our own. Biden endorsed putins pipeline and shut off ours.
 
Disappointed we refused to provide the Ukraine with defensive weapons to at least help inflict some pain upon Putin. Sanctions aren’t going to work. Maybe on long drawn out engagement with massive Russian casualties would at least given him pause. Putin is a dick
 
Disappointed we refused to provide the Ukraine with defensive weapons to at least help inflict some pain upon Putin. Sanctions aren’t going to work. Maybe on long drawn out engagement with massive Russian casualties would at least given him pause. Putin is a dick
It would just be wasted resources like giving them to the Afghani army. You back sides that have a chance to do something.
 
It would just be wasted resources like giving them to the Afghani army. You back sides that have a chance to do something.
History tells us the Ukrainians are nothing like the Afghani army. You do what is morally right. You better show some backbone when it comes to Putin or he’s going to continue to expand into the old Soviet states. Ukraine was never going to win this war. The goal should have been to give Putin pause before he invaded the next country. My prediction is we will now arm those surrounding countries. I don’t see us allowing this scenario to repeat itself
 
Very painful for the West but have to get Russia out of the international banking system. Halt flights to and from Russia too.
 
Russia has stockpiled gold and other assets in preparations for sanctions. Putin is ready. Doubtful anything will have much effect other than an outright embargo on Russian oil and gas. Even then deals have been made with China to ease that pain. The US should not buy another drop of Russian oil for a lengthy time.
 
The alliance with China is pretty scary considering they pretty much command all of our corporations and major public figures to say and do whatever they want
 
As opposed to the 1940s will we have the stomach for a world war that kills millions of Americans?

It is a real possibility you know. Scariest moment in my lifetime except maybe 9-11. Not even sure about that.
 
War has started 😢
NBC broke into regular shows to report it. media today is so lame. a report that should habe taken a few minutes lasted at least 10minutes. The highlight of the report was when one reporter ask another to dedcribe what the bomd explosions sounded like.

Boom!
 
If the US wants to be taken seriously, we need to heal our internal divisions. What kind of message does this send?

That we are a thriving Republic that values freedom of speech, expression and opinion rather than a communist totalitarian system that demands conformity at the barrel of a gun and the gates of the gulag?
 
The alliance with China is pretty scary considering they pretty much command all of our corporations and major public figures to say and do whatever they want
We have gone from number 1 to number 3 in the World power ratings.
 
2008 was when Russia invaded Georgia and we did nothing. By the way that was under Bush.
Could swear we trained and provided arms to the Georgia military.

The fact that we refused Ukraine’s plea for defensive weapons out of fear of Putin is one of the more cowardly acts I’ve seen from the US in my lifetime. From a President who has talked tough toward Putin for the past two years.
 
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Could swear we trained and provided arms to the Georgia military.

The fact that we refused Ukraine’s plea for defensive weapons out of fear of Putin is one of the more cowardly acts I’ve seen from the US in my lifetime. From a President who has talked tough toward Putin for the past two years.
We also trained and supplied(supply) military arms to Ukraine 🇺🇦 as well. Just not at the level and times that they requested. We just sent Javelins while the UK sent NLAWs.(10 or 14 days ago I believe.)
 
We also trained and supplied(supply) military arms to Ukraine 🇺🇦 as well. Just not at the level and times that they requested. We just sent Javelins while the UK sent NLAWs.(10 or 14 days ago I believe.)
That’s the equivalent of giving them rocks when it comes to what they’re facing. If we’ve trained and supplied them with arms over the years like we did Georgia then I have no idea why they’re using 40 year old Soviet weapon systems. Surely we aren’t training them on those platforms ?
 
If the US wants to be taken seriously, we need to heal our internal divisions. What kind of message does this send?
How about if you want to pull this quote, why don’t you go to the original source with the entire transcript, rather than allowing a lefty site like Politico cherry pick the quote? Here is the rest:

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.
 
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How about if you want to pull this quote, why don’t you go to the original source with the entire transcript, rather than allowing a lefty site like Politico cherry pick the quote? Here is the rest:

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.
The video portrays how Trump incessantly accused China of taking advantage of the US, currency manipulation and assorted other hostile and unfair acts. Trump single-handedly made China an issue and then screwed up the relationship with a failed trade deal and onerous tariffs on Americans. Same with N- Korea; all drama and a worse outcome. As for Ukraine, if Trump were in office, Ukraine would not be invaded as it would have already been taken over by the pro-Russia toadies that Trump tried to keep in power. Heck, Trump was impeached for withholding military equipment from the Ukraine and happily gave up Syria to total Russian control. Trump's only loyalties are to himself and Vladimir Putin (who he still calls a "genius")
 
Ongoing war and all WATU can talk about is a guy whose been out of office for over a year. Any thoughts on the situation at hand?
 
That’s the equivalent of giving them rocks when it comes to what they’re facing. If we’ve trained and supplied them with arms over the years like we did Georgia then I have no idea why they’re using 40 year old Soviet weapon systems. Surely we aren’t training them on those platforms ?
One of the training missions in April. (Doesn't say what platforms of equipment are being used.)

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/39411...nd-joint-multinational-training-group-ukraine

I'm not saying the training and supplies are enough, or equal. I'm simply pointing out that weapons and training were supplied to both. Georgia 🇬🇪 lasted five days.
 
The video portrays how Trump incessantly accused China of taking advantage of the US, currency manipulation and assorted other hostile and unfair acts. Trump single-handedly made China an issue and then screwed up the relationship with a failed trade deal and onerous tariffs on Americans. Same with N- Korea; all drama and a worse outcome. As for Ukraine, if Trump were in office, Ukraine would not be invaded as it would have already been taken over by the pro-Russia toadies that Trump tried to keep in power. Heck, Trump was impeached for withholding military equipment from the Ukraine and happily gave up Syria to total Russian control. Trump's only loyalties are to himself and Vladimir Putin (who he still calls a "genius")
biden bribed them with the threat of withholding aid if the investigated Humter. in his own words.
 
Trump is the leading figure of the Republican Party. Even since Trump came to the national stage, he has refused to call out Putin for anything and has often been slavishly complimentary. Oh, he's acquiesced to congressionally mandated penalties for some Russian misbehavior, but somehow it's never Putin's behavior. Why should Putin take US embargoes and threats seriously when Trump is a possible if not likely next President? When Congressmen like Hawley and Fox News are massaging Putin's PR image? When Republicans loyal to Trump will likely take control of the house in less than a year?
 
One of the training missions in April. (Doesn't say what platforms of equipment are being used.)

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/39411...nd-joint-multinational-training-group-ukraine

I'm not saying the training and supplies are enough, or equal. I'm simply pointing out that weapons and training were supplied to both. Georgia 🇬🇪 lasted five days.
I thought Russia stopped the aggression after 5 days and never reached the capital ? Not sure it’s a fair comparison anyway. Georgia has a population of less than 4 millions people. Ukraine is 10x that size.
 
I thought Russia stopped the aggression after 5 days and never reached the capital ? Not sure it’s a fair comparison anyway. Georgia has a population of less than 4 millions people. Ukraine is 10x that size.
Tru dat, on the size of Georgia 🇬🇪 making the length of conflict not applicable to the scale of the present situation.

Didn't you mean to say the Ukranian district of Russia 🇷🇺 is 10x that?
 
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A few years from now...

I'm just waiting for Putin to call 📱 the Polish, fascists and nazi's with a straight face.
 
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How different is it really? Georgia isn't a highly populated country, but it's an extremely important one in terms of location. It carries piped oil between the Caspian and Black Seas.

In early March 2008, Abkhazia and South Ossetia submitted formal requests for their recognition to Russia's parliament shortly after the West's recognition of Kosovo which Russia had been resisting. Dmitry Rogozin, Russian ambassador to NATO, hinted that Georgia's aspiration to become a NATO member would cause Russia to support the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.[94] The Russian State Duma adopted a resolution on 21 March, in which it called on the President of Russia and the government to consider the recognition.[95]

Georgia began proposing the placement of international peacekeepers in the separatist regions when Russia began to apply more force on Georgia after April 2008. The West launched new initiatives for peace settlement, with peace proposals being offered and discussions being organised by the European Union, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and Germany. The separatists dismissed the German project for Abkhazia approved by Georgia. Russia and the separatists did not attend an EU-backed meeting regarding Abkhazia. They also dismissed an OSCE offer to renew talks regarding South Ossetia.[96]

Relations between Georgia and the West​

One of President Saakashvili's primary aims for Georgia was to become a member state of NATO,[88] which has been one of the major stumbling blocks in Georgia-Russia relations.[97]

Although Georgia has no notable gas or oil reserves, its territory hosts part of the Baku–Tbilisi–Ceyhan pipeline supplying oil to Turkey.[98] Russia, Iran and the Persian Gulf countries opposed the construction of the pipeline.[99] The pipeline circumvents both Russia and Iran. Because it has decreased Western dependence on Middle East's oil, the pipeline has been a major factor in the United States' backing for Georgia.[100]


Russian President Vladimir Putin at the 2008 Bucharest Summit
During the NATO summit in Bucharest in April 2008, American president George W. Bush campaigned for offering a Membership Action Plan (MAP) to Georgia and Ukraine. However, Germany and France said that offering a MAP to Ukraine and Georgia would be "an unnecessary offence" for Russia.[101] NATO stated that Ukraine and Georgia would be admitted in the alliance and pledged to review the requests for MAP in December 2008.[102] Russian President Vladimir Putin was in Bucharest during the summit. At the conclusion of the summit on 4 April, Putin said that NATO's enlargement towards Russia "would be taken in Russia as a direct threat to the security of our country".[103] Following the Bucharest summit, Russian hostility increased and Russia started to actively prepare for the invasion of Georgia.[104] Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Yuri Baluyevsky said on 11 April that Russia would carry out "steps of a different nature" in addition to military action to block NATO membership of former Soviet republics.[105] General Baluyevsky admitted in 2012 that after President Putin had decided to attack Georgia prior to the May 2008 inauguration of Dmitry Medvedev as president of Russia, a military action was planned and explicit orders were issued in advance before August 2008. Russia aimed to stop Georgia's accession to NATO and also to bring about a "regime change".[85]
 
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