Tulsa passenger rail

[drboobay]

Tulsa has been proposed as a hub in the central region.

This is a golden opportunity to finally link us to an important element of the nation's infrastructure.

Now is the time to act. Submit supportive comments at the bottom of this page.

If this effort is unsuccessful Tulsa will be the largest city without passenger rail in the US within a few years. We are already among the five largest.

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Federal Railroad Administration Amtrak Daily Long-Distance Service Study The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) is conducting an Amtrak Daily Long-Distance Service Study to evaluate the restoration of daily long-distance intercity rail passenger service and the potential for new Amtrak...

fralongdistancerailstudy.org

 

[TUMU]

Submitted positive comments.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Tulsa has been proposed as a hub in the central region.

This is a golden opportunity to finally link us to an important element of the nation's infrastructure.

Now is the time to act. Submit supportive comments at the bottom of this page.

If this effort is unsuccessful Tulsa will be the largest city without passenger rail in the US within a few years. We are already among the five largest.

Homepage

Federal Railroad Administration Amtrak Daily Long-Distance Service Study The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) is conducting an Amtrak Daily Long-Distance Service Study to evaluate the restoration of daily long-distance intercity rail passenger service and the potential for new Amtrak...

fralongdistancerailstudy.org

Has Nashville & Louisville been proposed as well?

 

[drboobay]

Has Nashville & Louisville been proposed as well?

They are already in Amtrak plans.

We are not. We are the largest city without service nor planned service.

The FRA study is our best chance to bypass our politicians and make something happen. The central region planning group has suggested Tulsa as a hub but to move it beyond a concept to recommendation to reality will take some serious public support.

 

[aTUfan]

They are already in Amtrak plans.

We are not. We are the largest city without service nor planned service.

The FRA study is our best chance to bypass our politicians and make something happen. The central region planning group has suggested Tulsa as a hub but to move it beyond a concept to recommendation to reality will take some serious public support.

Dallas built a system that connects parking lots

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Dallas built a system that connects parking lots

What the heck does that have to do with long distance rail? I bet u r fun at parties. Your brain just puts out autonomic responses.

 

[drboobay]

We have a need, particularly transportation options to Kansas City. No flights there in a long time. Beyond that state law has mandated passenger rail between Tulsa and OKC since the late 90s. There is an opportunity to get those things moving and more and ensure we benefit from infrastructure we pay for anyway.

 

[TU_BLA]

Dallas built a system that connects parking lots

The MBTA in MA has extended its commuter rail service to Cape Cod, New Bedford, Fall River, and Taunton. These are all south coast cities 45-60 min from Boston on good traffic days. I used to take a bus from NB to Boston and vice versa if I went home for the weekend from Boston U. I would have really liked the train being an option. And in Boston the train meets at South Station where you can grab a T to the rest of the Boston metro area.

I would love to have a train option from Tulsa to Dallas, OKC, KC, and St. Louis. And if they could somehow make the Tulsa to OKC a high speed rail convenient to commuters...that would be epic.

 

[TU_BLA]

Dallas built a system that connects parking lots

Are you referring to a park and ride system designed so commuters don't have to drive into the mess that is downtown Dallas? Typically you connect from the train to a bus or other commuter option (subway in many cities).

 

[drboobay]

The MBTA in MA has extended its commuter rail service to Cape Cod, New Bedford, Fall River, and Taunton. These are all south coast cities 45-60 min from Boston on good traffic days. I used to take a bus from NB to Boston and vice versa if I went home for the weekend from Boston U. I would have really liked the train being an option. And in Boston the train meets at South Station where you can grab a T to the rest of the Boston metro area.

I would love to have a train option from Tulsa to Dallas, OKC, KC, and St. Louis. And if they could somehow make the Tulsa to OKC a high speed rail convenient to commuters...that would be epic.

Those 4 connections are the exact hub concept the working group - not really Tulsa people - have come up with to enhance regional connectivity. We need popular support.

 

[javastan]

I remember riding the train from Tulsa as a child from the downtown Union Depot. I suspect any addition of Tulsa to a rail system will use a different depot - but where?

 

[Henry Kendall]

Submitted as well.

 

[drboobay]

I remember riding the train from Tulsa as a child from the downtown Union Depot. I suspect any addition of Tulsa to a rail system will use a different depot - but where?

Why not Union Depot?

It is still there next to the rails.

Certainly there would be costs and contracts to deal with but there is no better place I can think of for it.

 

[TU_BLA]

Why not Union Depot?

It is still there next to the rails.

Certainly there would be costs and contracts to deal with but there is no better place I can think of for it.

Isn't that now the Jazz Hall of Fame and some other entities. We used it as a banquet venue a few years ago.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

I'd love a rail from midtown to downtown. Parking for Cain's totally sucks now so it's uber or nothing.

 

[lawpoke87]

Curious…how many passengers on average ride on the train from OKC to Dallas and vice versa? I tried to look up the info but couldn’t find anything.

 

[Li'l Eric Coley]

Curious…how many passengers on average ride on the train from OKC to Dallas and vice versa? I tried to look up the info but couldn’t find anything.

No clue, but the thing is jam-packed every OU-TX weekend.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Curious…how many passengers on average ride on the train from OKC to Dallas and vice versa? I tried to look up the info but couldn’t find anything.

72,379 at 18% capacity(annual average both directions) A little under 35 passengers both ways. Approximately 17.4 people on each train.

 

[noble cane]

Curious…how many passengers on average ride on the train from OKC to Dallas and vice versa? I tried to look up the info but couldn’t find anything

The family rode it one weekend.. not really all that packed.. probably because you can drive from OKC to FW and arrive in time to have a meal in Sundance square (or Bricktown) before picking up the family from the train.

 

[drboobay]

72,379 at 18% capacity(annual average)

Passenger rail is not going away no matter what folks think. The network is going to grow and connections to nearby cities without nonstop air options will help the most. Tulsa is also geographically well position as a hub for long distance transit.

Would be a shame if we get left out again.

 

[noble cane]

Passenger rail is not going away no matter what folks think. The network is going to grow and connections to nearby cities without nonstop air options will help the most. Tulsa is also geographically well position as a hub for long distance transit.

Would be a shame if we get left out again.

Then make it pay for itself.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

72,379 at 18% capacity(annual average both directions) A little under 35 passengers both ways. Approximately 17.4 people on each train.

There would be quite a few long distance travelers added, if Tulsa connected as a hub. Not to mention an increase to Dallas and back, because the distance is greater. The ride would be of additional value, at cause to this. My guess is the riders would be somewhere between 2 to 3 times greater.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Then make it pay for itself.

That happens over time. You can't expect people to adopt this mode of travel immediately. It takes advertising, word of mouth, and an adoption curve. It is more efficient than cars and planes, thus better on the environment. Which I'm thinking doesn't really matter to you.

 

[noble cane]

There would be quite a few long distance travelers added, if Tulsa connected as a hub. Not to mention an increase to Dallas and back, because the distance is greater. The ride would be of additional value, at cause to this. My guess is the riders would be somewhere between 2 to 3 times greater.(42 riders approx on each train, somewhere over 40% capacity.)

OKC to LAX is 47 to 73 hours for approx $300 by train
OKC to LAX is 6.5 hours for approx $600 by plane

 

[noble cane]

That happens over time.

It hasnt yet..

 

[Gmoney4WW]

OKC to LAX is 47 to 73 hours for approx $300 by train
OKC to LAX is 6.5 hours for approx $600 by plane

You take things to the extreme. That is not the motive for rail. Rail is more suited to mid distance travel between 250 to 1200 mi. And you don't figure in the travel to the airport, the wait for security, and boarding either. That wouldn't make a difference in the extreme of OKC to LAX, but it would make a difference for Tulsa to St Louis or Memphis.

 

[drboobay]

Let's also ask the car companies to pay for roads while we are at it.

Silly point to make. We subsidize infrastructure all the time.

And leaving Tulsa out won't make passenger rail disappear either. It just leaves us out and let's our tax dollars continue to support passenger rail in every other large city in the USA.

It's not going away. It is only expanding.

 

[noble cane]

That happens over time. You can't expect people to adopt this mode of travel immediately. It takes advertising, word of mouth, and an adoption curve. It is more efficient than cars and planes, thus better on the environment. Which I'm thinking doesn't really matter to you.

In 20 years, i would have expected a substantial adoption curve of Amtrak between OKC and FW.. but 17 passegers on average each way each day?.. sounds incredibly efficient.

 

[noble cane]

You take things to the extreme. That is not the motive for rail. Rail is more suited to mid distance travel between 250 to 1200 mi. And you don't figure in the travel to the airport, the wait for security, and boarding either. That wouldn't make a difference in the extreme of OKC to LAX, but it would make a difference for Tulsa to St Louis or Memphis.

Security and boarding is 2 hours max on a normal day..

 

[drboobay]

You take things to the extreme. That is not the motive for rail. Rail is more suited to mid distance travel between 250 to 1200 mi. And you don't figure in the travel to the airport, the wait for security, and boarding either. That wouldn't make a difference in the extreme of OKC to LAX, but it would make a difference for Tulsa to St Louis or Memphis.

Or Kansas City. Right now it is a flight connection in Dallas. Or wasted time driving where you cannot work (assuming you can drive).

And again why should we pay in but get left out of the benefit? It is a foolish position to take.

 

[noble cane]

Or Kansas City. Right now it is a flight connection in Dallas. Or wasted time driving where you cannot work (assuming you can drive).

And again why should we pay in but get left out of the benefit? It is a foolish position to take.

Make the fares pay for it..

 

[drboobay]

You take things to the extreme. That is not the motive for rail. Rail is more suited to mid distance travel between 250 to 1200 mi. And you don't figure in the travel to the airport, the wait for security, and boarding either. That wouldn't make a difference in the extreme of OKC to LAX, but it would make a difference for Tulsa to St Louis or Memphis.

Boarding Amtrak from NYC to Albany and from Seattle to Vancouver was much easier than the airport experience. And the train was much less taxing than attempting to drive. The better the connectivity the more useful it becomes.

 

[TU1NNJ]

When living in Princeton I took Amtrack most places between DC and Boston. I had to commute minimum of 45 minutes to either Philadelphia or Newark for air service. That commute and parking hassles made air service less desirable for these shorter trips. NJ Transit to NYC was always easier route than automobile. I hope this works out for Tulsa. A train to KC, DFW and OKC is more travel friendly than a car if the local mass transit systems coordinate with the train depot and schedules.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

It hasn't yet..

In 20 years, i would have expected a substantial adoption curve of Amtrak between OKC and FW.. but 17 passegers on average each way each day?.. sounds incredibly efficient.

There would be quite a few long distance travelers added, if Tulsa connected as a hub. Not to mention an increase to Dallas and back, because the distance is greater. The ride would be of additional value, at cause to this. My guess is the riders would be somewhere between 2 to 3 times greater.

We don't have it available for everyone to anywhere yet. We haven't been able to advertise it as such. And we are just now beginning to suffer over climate change. The adoption will happen. It must happen. Many things will begin to happen when we have long term suffering over climate.

When it does, the fares will stay the same without government subsidization. If this had been fully adopted a long time ago and maintained, we wouldn't be having this argument. And we subsidize the roads at great expense, but you don't consider that.

Train stations are usually in the cities. Where as the airports are on the outskirts. You aren't considering the additional time for travel with your security and boarding estimates. And you need to figure it with time on the end of the journey. All in all it probably is more like four hours in larger cities, minimum. You are only considering the time it takes you in OKC, not the time it takes you in Chicago, LA, NY, etc. It ain't just for your convenience, it's for people all over the US.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

We don't have it available for everyone to anywhere yet. We haven't been able to advertise it as such. And we are just now beginning to suffer over climate change. The adoption will happen. It must happen. Many things will begin to happen when we have long term suffering over climate.

When it does, the fares will stay the same without government subsidization. If this had been fully adopted a long time ago and maintained, we wouldn't be having this argument. And we subsidize the roads at great expense, but you don't consider that.

Train stations are usually in the cities. Where as the airports are on the outskirts. You aren't considering the additional time for travel with your security and boarding estimates. And you need to figure it with time on the end of the journey. All in all it probably is more like four hours in larger cities, minimum. You are only considering the time it takes you in OKC, not the time it takes you in Chicago, LA, NY, etc. It ain't just for your convenience, it's for people all over the US.

If it doesn't suit all of Noble's desires it ain't worth having. 🤣

Not to mention Noble has repetitively ignored the taxes it would bring to the city and state.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I liked it early on,(the first several years) when Noble and I simply ignored each other. We knew we disagreed with each other like, 90% of the time. I figured it wasn't worth the effort and time, then he changed his mind.

Then he questioned my morals, my ethics, my logic. Now I either let it go, or I question his morals, his ethics, his logic. It's not a terribly difficult job for me to do, considering the person I am questioning.

 

[noble cane]

If it doesn't suit all of Noble's desires it ain't worth having. 🤣

Not to mention Noble has repetitively ignored the taxes it would bring to the city and state.

No, i just want to see it pay for itself with its passenger load. I feel the same about highways, aiports, and commercial ports. The activity should fund the infrastructure without being a burden on the general citizenry.

You want to fly.. be prepared to pay for the airport.

Drive.. pay for the road.

Ride the train.. pay a ticket price that pays for it.. ($35 × 17 doesnt pay for the heartland flyer.. )

Dont ask for continued taxpayer funding..

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I'd like to see a study on the cost per person served on rail subsidization versus road subsidization. I have a feeling that if projected out for 20 years it wouldn't be that much more for rail. If projected out for 50 years even less of a difference.

 

[noble cane]

I liked it early on,(the first several years) when Noble and I simply ignored each other. We knew we disagreed with each other like, 90% of the time. I figured it wasn't worth the effort and time, then he changed his mind.

Then he questioned my morals, my ethics, my logic. Now I either let it go, or I question his morals, his ethics, his logic. It's not a terribly difficult job for me to do, considering the person I am questioning.

You really should quote the person youre responding to.. otherwise you look like youre talking to yourself and losing the argument..

 

[lawpoke87]

I have no issues with Amtrak and if we’re throwing billions of dollars of taxpayer money then Tulsa might as well benefit. That said….based on those OKC numbers the program at least in Oklahoma is losing huge amounts of money. A case should be made why a hub in Tulsa would be different imo. Would like to see some projections Especially with a $33T debt with a 5% servicing cost.